Rock,

You next say This is going to sound very harsh. Yes you are supposed to be concentrating on you, and meeting her needs. Her responses to you BEST effort are NOT of your concern and you will see why in a moment. Focus on smiling, enjoying, listening, hearing, smelling, seeing what is around you and that includes her.


You don't care about her ties to the other guy. Ultimately what you want to know is WHY or more importantly you want HER to know why so that she can protect HER boundaries. You are not going to be able to protect HER boundaries, so quit worrying about it.

Consider this: If she had a firm boundary to not cheat, then
she could not have cheated and felt it was OK as long as you did not know. Why? Because she knew and SHE is the one whose boundary she ran over. She made a promise to herself on wedding day to be faithful, she stated it to you, but it was a promise to HERSELF. Get that, HERSELF. She violated HER promise to HERSELF. Are you seeing why you cannot fix this, only she can? All you can do is offer her a relationship that she finds rewarding. Or at least do the best you can.

Here's the part you are not going to like. IF in the next year or so, she has done nothing to ease your worries, to give you some trust, to make this marriage something YOU enjoy, YOU ARE GOING TO LEAVE HER. Do you hear? You don't have to put up with it, the vows have been broken. You don't have an affair, you leave and file for divorce.

You are missing a very important thing. You can walk away and you should walk away IF she does not meet you somewhere in the middle. Just as it is your job to meet her needs, it is her job to meet yours, and if you are not happy, then the solution is not an affair it is to leave. You can only do what you can do. That is what we are telling you.

You give this marriage its best chance of survival by meeting her needs, using plan A during the A, and being the best husband and father you can be. If after that you are not happy, if you are still looking over your shoulder in fear that she will have another one...you leave.

You have nothing to fear. You have and are giving this your best chance. If it is not good enough for her you will know, and you leave. If her efforts are not good enough for you, you will know and you walk away. These are not threats, these are real consequences to the decisions made by both of you individually.

You want her to hang in there, then be someone she enjoys being around. If you never get what you want to make you feel comfortable in this marriage, you walk.

It is simple my friend, it is just not easy. ONce you realize you can walk, you will realize that you are only PART of this, she is the other part. She has a job to do as well.

Darned if I know, but I do know if she does not do enough to give you confidence in this marriage over a period of time. If she cannot at least apologize for what she has done, then you need to be gone. But, be aware that her language for doing this may NOT be yours. And here is where meeting needs as the spouse would like them is important to understand. It is really her call, and you are her's to lose.

No, not really. Everything I have read says it takes time, and it takes recovery. It takes replacing the images of them, with the images of you two. If you are happy with her and the marriage, I think the thoughts will fade. Until you are, you will beat yourself up with them.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

Rock, sorry to see you're still struggling with this. I know it takes time to come to terms with all this stuff, but you are getting some excellent advice from the others here. I can only sit here and sympathise with you and hope that you come through it soon.

I suppose I am getting a bit more help from my H than you appear to be getting from your W, but it may just be her way - not that she's trying to 'brush it under the rug' - just like this was at first with my H, but he did soon take note of what I needed him to do and he started doing it, despite him feeling bad whenever I was upset. He just understood that in order for me to recover, he had to take some rough times too.

Coming up to Easter I decided that I would spend one day at a time being happy and cheerful, forcing myself into non-A thoughts, and see if this could be maintained over the holiday weekend, in order to give us both a break from this doom and gloom. It appeared to work, I felt on top of the World, and have managed to maintain it ever since. Sometimes it feels very strange - that I am acting as if nothing happened - and I feel as if I am going to come back down with a bump. But I must have (eventually) come to realise that the way I was behaving meant that I was not very nice to be with, and I knew that for things to change, then I have to change (Jim Rohn), so I did. One day at a time.

Why ruminate over what you think they did or didn't do, or what they felt? Why put yourself through that torture, because that's what it is, I know that, and I didn't want to carry on that way - it was making me ill. She may, at some later date, be willing to talk, but give her time and work on yourself first. I would suggest talking with her before you set off for your weekend away, and reassure her that you are not going to talk about the A, you are going to enjoy your time together, and that you intend to move on to a better level. Sometimes verbally stating these things, with conviction, makes them come to fruition. Sort of puts a new picture in your brain and then your brain takes it on board. While ever you are feeding it negatives, negatives is what comes out. That's more or less how I overcame the bad thoughts.

It does at first feel that you shouldn't be doing that, that really they should be suffering a bit more for what they did, so that they REALLY know that they messed up, but that's just crazy thoughts. Sometimes this is all subconscious - not that you are purposely making them suffer - it just feels wrong, somehow, that they get the peaceful life after causing so much heartache, and you are left with the depression and misery. But if you want to heal, then listen to JL and start thinking about YOU.

Take care, and have a lovely weekend.

Thank you both for your input. It all makes perfect sense. It's just hard. I will do what I can. I know that when I am down and out and depressed that I am not really someone she wants to be around. I hate that. I guess I have to be the one to step up and take it to the next level. Thanks for the support. If you think of anything else, please keep it coming. You guys really boost my spirits!

It is hard, VERY hard, as I remember it was for me up to less than a couple of weeks ago. But you will get there. It just takes a little effort to move up a level. Once you make a little progress, concentrate on that and don't be dragged back by more crazy thoughts. I know that sometimes it feels as if you will never get out of this pit of despair, but really all you have to do is make a little effort to begin with and then it will become second nature.

Just try it for your weekend away, and see how different it feels. Fight your impulse to dwell on things that you might never understand, and actually try to pretend nothing has happened. It will feel weird, but I find I can now think A thoughts and move them on much quicker instead of letting them get to me. I haven't even asked my list of questions yet, and I'm now not sure if I even want to. And I have stopped the tablets to help my mood (you have to have a break after three months), and I am not sure I will need them again, although I did have a menopausal moment yesterday, so maybe I will take them for that!! H is still looking at me occasionally expecting me to crack, asking how I am doing. I just smile sweetly and say I am doing very well!! That's not to say I don't still think about the A, but it's very peripheral now.

Keep yer chin up!!

That's great DH. I see your PA D-day is about the same as mine. So that's encouraging.

Rock,

About the A images...

Like Gimble and DH59 said...get to what you're thinking, what you're believing...

and choose your thoughts.

Just like the rest of our stuff, we have this choice...where our thoughts dwell. Your brain will hand you images you don't want now...because you wrestled, examined, dwelled in them before...your own brain thinks that what you want...

When you catch an image, let it go and say to yourself, "That's not what I want"...and replace it with an image of you and her...because that's real...that's now.

Our brains don't know time...and they don't know reality from fantasy. If you can catch where your thoughts are within ten seconds, and choose differently, you will NOT have the corresponding terrible signals (feelings) associated with that thought. You won't. Takes time to retrieve the emotionally tagged to image stuff...comes from different parts of our brain...so if you are highly aware...not fearful...aware...then you can cut down a lot of the painful reactions...through choice.

You really can.

This isn't shirting it...it's dealing with a brain who thinks you want to stay mired where you have no control...A's aren't in the BS's control...and we often obsess to give us the feeling we are...and we aren't.

Hardest part of those images for me was when DH and I were making love...and I shared this with DH...and we POJA'd that when they flew in, I'd speak of them, right then. And I did. Gosh, that was really hard. After a couple of times, that was it...the images left.

You want your FWW to help you in healing...are you giving her these opportunities? Sharing to help yourself, with her? I had to own my triggers...say them aloud...own the corresponding feelings as mine...and share...information, not condemnation. Went a long way to my brain knowing what I really did control and what I didn't...and me saying, "I don't want that" to what I didn't. Brains are marvelous...they hand us what we want...they pass on signals, retrieve, store and are like these incredible butlers with child-like innocence.

Up to us to determine what we really want.

Not distracting ourselves...teaching ourselves...sharing internally...and choosing our lives, in our own power...embracing our limits.

You can do this...and you can do it aloud...share along the way. "I have this wishful desire to hear you sharing your remorse, your thoughts, your feelings with me, as if it will erase and cure me, magically, of all the pain I have inside. I know that's not real...takes time...intent...and I know my sharing is just as important in my healing as yours."

Get to your truth and know it...then share it. Makes this a journey shared...not enmeshed and not co-dependent. No one can cause, control or cure you...except you. And you can't be that to anyone else. Not in our human design. Let God's brilliance be part of your experience today. Know and share...strive to understand, then be understood...and share your wholeness.

JL is the one who brought me the truth when I couldn't tell the difference...heeding his words, all of them, was the best choice I think I ever made in my entire life. Take heart, choose hope, God is bringing you all you need to recover...and respects it as your choice, nonetheless.

LA

Amazing LA. I think I'm going to print some of this great advice and keep it in my pocket so I can pull it out and read it now and then during the day. Thank God for you and the others here who are helping me. Thank God for MB too.

Rock,

You're worth every keystroke and you're welcome.

You are feeling right now what I began to feel over two years ago...because Pepperband and JL and others were there for me. This truly does go around and around...enhances our lives and growth as much as it does yours. I promise.

I felt as if I'd been living a tunnel life...and hearing others' perspective, sharing from their experiences, opened an opportunity for experiencing life abundantly. Keeps going...on and on...around and around...

All because you chose to act bravely and share...what a world.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Post deleted by rockbottom06

What did I miss? Dang. There was a post and then there wasn't.

Talk about triggering my inner child, Rock.

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LA

Drats!

Could you tell if it was from Rock, LA?

They are supposed to be enjoying their weekend getaway...I sure hope nothing happened....I'm really pullin' for them.

MAZ

LA,

I have the deleted post. I received it in an email via my subscribed threads. I don't understand why he would have deleted it, it was very positive and hopeful.

I sure as heck hope nothing happened!! Shoot!

Hey MAZ,
You have my permission if you want to put my post back here that I deleted. Sometimes I get in a mood where I just feel like writing, then I go back and look at it and think "Eh, everyone's gonna think this is stupid" and I delete it.
Such is the case with my last deleted post. It just talked about how much I was looking forward to our weekend and how much I love my wife...... Put it back here if you would.
I read your post and I am really happy that your H agreed to some MC. I really think that is great!! I also see that LA gave you some good advise also.
Well, we are back from out weekend getaway. It was very nice. We both enjoyed it very much. I kept LBs to a minimum. It sure was nice to get away from the kids for a couple of nights at least.
My MIL picked up the girls Friday after work. FWW and I went to a local place for dinner, came home and chilled.
We left for our getaway early Saturday afternoon.
Here's a funny story. We stopped on the way up there for lunch at my favorite hot dog joint. In the restaurant was this candy crane game so I gave it a shot. I scooped up some candy and when I bent down to retrieve it from the machine my pants ripped! A big 'ol rip on my butt. I had only packed some sweats besides what I was wearing. Ha ha. We had to stop at a store down the road and go in and get me a new pair. We thought that was funny. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
We drove fro about 3 hours and got to the place. Checked in and both crashed an the bed for a couple of hours. Then we went downstairs to have dinner. First though we visited their wine cellar for some wine tasting. I'm not a big wine drinker, but I have to say some of those were really good.

We picked one that we liked and bought a bottle of it to go with our dinner. The dinner was delicious! The best piece of steak I had in a long time. We had a nice dinner. M & R talk came up a little, but it was o.k.
Then we went back to the room with what was left of our wine and we soaked in the hot tub for a little. FWW, being so tiny, has a low tolerance for the wine so she got a little romantic and badda boom baada bing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

We woke up and went for breakfast, checked out and drove home. The weather here is beautiful right now. I would give this weekend a big thumbs up.
I think a lot of our problems are we never had any alone time since kids entered our lives. It was good to at least for a little while, get back to the basics of her and I. We mesh very well together.
I thanked her for giving us this weekend together and that I really appreciated it.
Thanks for listening!
Rock

As per your request, here is your FDP (formerly deleted post). LOL

Rock said....

Rock, this is a place to share anything, good and bad. And...I'm so glad that the weekend was everything you hoped it would be, badda-bing included, LOL!!

Heck, there was even some badda bing at MAZ's house too. Not a bad weekend all around!

Good job, Mr. and Mrs. Rock!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey Rock, glad to hear the weekend was a success.

Badda bing here too!! Must be catching.

Welcome to the BB club DH! Sounds like a pretty good weekend all around! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Somebody tell me a joke or something please.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />