I get where you're coming from, but from my experience, I can say you definitely will not get your former wife back.

If you both do it right, you will get the latest, greatest, new and improved version! You may have to de-bug on the way there, but the destination will be worth the travel don't you think?

Everything we go through and experience changes us forever. It's how we handle it that makes the difference. (I'm channeling LA I think <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

I guess the key phrase would be "both do it right". What is doing it right? I think that doing it right might be actually talking about things, sharing feelings about things. Y'know, being there for each other. Crazy stuff like that.
Unfortunately for me I don't think that that will ever happen. My wife does not love me. I have to face the fact. I really don't understand what my role is in her life.
I'm still working on that.

Am A Rock Lyrics
» Simon & Garfunkel
(P. Simon)
A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Don't talk of love,
But I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

I don't know that I'm in any position to hit you with a tube, but...

I want to know exactly where you got that she doesn't love you...did she say those exact words to you? I have emails from her that say just the opposite, you know!

Doing it right...that's subject to interpretation. Doing it right is doing it in a way that's productive to both of you...that allows BOTH of you to grow and heal. Doing it right doesn't mean it will be easy. Doing it right doesn't mean it won't be painful.

Doing it right is not only as YOU define it.

Last week you went from things are looking up, she's opening up, you were happy about that, which I saw...to you feeling like you couldn't/shouldn't be happy about that, to bottoming out now. Did something specific happen?

What advice have you implemented? Have you gone to IC? I'm betting you would benefit from AD's yourself. Have you written your list of questions? Have you set aside a time for M/R talk so it's not a constant/daily pressure for Mrs. R?

You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...

If nothing changes then nothing is gonna change.

I don't want to beat you up but I want you to exercise the power you have instead of giving it all away to circumstance.

Go ahead and hit me. M2L helped me in the past and he had to smack me in the head almost daily!

As far as her loving me, I think it's true. I'm just fooling myself. I'm just comfortable to her. I'll bet if you look back at her emails that you won't find any talk of her "loving me".

Nothing specific happened. Maybe it's just me expecting too much. I just feel like it will never get any better than this and it all falls on me just accepting everything.

I've gone to a few IC sessions. That didn't go well. It seemed like a waste of time. At one time I was prescribed some anti-anxiety medication. I never even took them. I did start writing down some questions. I took a lot of time to think them over. I still have some more questions concerning OM2 and OM3.
Setting a time to sit and talk seems to be a pipe dream too. Our communication is so bad that it would just turn into an argument. Besides we never have any time alone it seems.
I don't pressure her daily to talk about it. I think all in all I've been a pretty sensible betrayed husband.
It's just been tough lately. I just feel so disrespected I guess. She makes me feel worthless sometimes. I am definately not very important in her life.
Well, I could go on and on, but I will end my little pity party for now.

Rock - I suggest you take the anti-D's. I think you are doing an excellent job. You are not going to be able to go on forever carrying the whole load. I know men don't like anti-D's, but I really think they will help you figure out what needs to happen for the marriage to become better.

Wrong. But her emails were to me personally so I will not post what she said here. But I can tell you again, you are wrong.


But again, I don't understand, last week she was sharing...are you discounting that progress? What would it getting better look like to you?


Then try another one. It can be hard to find a counselor that you click with. Anti anxiety meds are not AD's. What you need is an AD and you need to take it.


Where are they? Do you have a timeline for completing them and getting them to her?


2 Full time jobs, 2 kids, no doubt. Mrs. Rock is stressed too. Enlist that MIL to babysit one night a week. Believe me, if DH and I could manage to turn around nearly 20 years of dysfunctional communication patterns you two certainly can. You can't be upset about something failing that you haven't tried, do you see?


Give some examples of what you think she does that makes you feel worthless. Why do you not feel important in her life? Do you realize these are your truths, may not be her truths and most unlikely to be The Actual Truth (go LA)....

Wrong. But her emails were to me personally so I will not post what she said here. But I can tell you again, you are wrong.

**"Aue contraire maune fraire" or something like that. Whatever that means,it just sounded good. She has told me that she has, hasn't, what really is love? I've got a hundred answers.

But again, I don't understand, last week she was sharing...are you discounting that progress? What would it getting better look like to you?

**It's probably just me. I see a little crack in the dam and I guess I just want it to burst open. I guess I have to be happy with what trickles out.

Then try another one. It can be hard to find a counselor that you click with. Anti anxiety meds are not AD's. What you need is an AD and you need to take it.

**I am stubborn. I don't have the first clue where to start looking for a counselor. Besides they cost money and I will be ok. ADs are not for me either.


Where are they? Do you have a timeline for completing them and getting them to her?

**I'm still working on them. I will give them too her soon, but I'm not really expecting any response. If I do they will probably just be lies anyways.

Give some examples of what you think she does that makes you feel worthless. Why do you not feel important in her life? Do you realize these are your truths, may not be her truths and most unlikely to be The Actual Truth (go LA)....

Well, I guess I'm can't be too important if she is seeking to have intercourse with other men. I will have to answer this one a little later. Bear with me.

Rock,

You need to suck it up, my man. Your W can't love you if you don't love yourself and she doesn't love herself. Both are probably true at this point. You have some issues that you need to deal with. By not going to an IC and not taking ADs you are saying, "Mrs. Rock, this is your problem and your fault alone. You need to fix yourself." Sorry Rock, but there are plenty of things you can improve on until your W comes around. "ADs aren't for me"? That's like saying, "I don't believe in vaccines." They are there to help you. If you can't accept help, then you really don't want it to begin with.

I'm going through many of the same struggles you are. I have my down days, and they only work to SLOW recovery. My W says, "I want FUN Jim back, not SAD Jim." Rock, the more FUN Rock your W sees and the less SAD Rock your W sees, the quicker your recovery will be. Part of her problem is feeling guilt over making you as sad and feeling worthless. How can she love you when she hates herself? It is easier not to hate herself if she doesn't have constant reminders (in the form of you being depressed) of how awful she was. Just keep plugging along, Rock. The average recovery takes TWO YEARS! You aren't even 1/3 of the way there. Keep plugging along. It will be worth it in the long run.

What about remorse Rock. Has she shown any remorse, asked your forgiveness???

Great post, Jim, I thought the above two quotes were especially on target.

I hope you don't meant 2 years per affair. I'm looking at 6 years then. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hey M2L, I see you're back around. Haven't seen you in a while. MAZ has been smacking me in the head for a while now. I still need that y'know.

Rock - you are doing fine. This stuff is hard to handle. I was away for a little while. Took the family to WDW for son's 6th bithday and 1 year dday ann. Take that EA!!!!

This crap gets better with time. Spend as much time as you can right now doing fun things as a family. Not only will your wife feel closer as a family, but you will too.

Have fun this summer. That is how I spent last summer, having as much family fun as I could along with the 15 or more hours with my wife.

Good for you M2L! Sounds like fun!
I'm sure this gets better in time. I think. I was just hoping that it would get better in time because FWW and I would work together to fix things, but I guess "in time" just means how I eventually just push all of my feelings deep inside and hide how I'm feeling. Just deal with it.
It's hard to have fun as a family right now because FWW doesn't really want to have much to do with me, it seems.
I'm just a worthless husband to her I guess.
My daughters love me, so I cling to that. At least in their eyes I am a valuable part of the family.
It's good to hear from you again.

Rock, other people have already said this, but


These are the words of a depressed person.

Alprazolam/Xanax is for anti-anxiety. Anxiety and depression are different. If you obsess over stuff, can't sleep, can't concentrate because of the mind racing--that's anxiety. That's what alprazolam is for.

You're describing depression. It's completely common for where you are. There are different meds for that, and they really help. A psychiatrist can help you get one that works for you. Zoloft (sertraline) is one that works for a lot of people.

You still have a long road ahead of you, so take advantage of whatever tools you can to make it easier.

Many people don't know when they're depressed, so recognition of the problem is the first step. You can start getting help once you admit it to yourself. Oh, wait. You already did:

Thanks for the advice sdguy. You (and everyone else) is probably right. I think that I am in denial. No disrespect to any of you on ADs, but it's hard for me to bring myself to that. I try to think of myself as being so strong. Maybe I'm not as strong as I thought that I was. I can just start crying at the drop of a hat. Heck, I'm getting a little teary eyed just as I write this.
I know that early on after D-day, I was definately experience anxiety. Sometimes I would lay in bed and just shake and shudder uncontrolably. I was presctibed some generic Xanax, but I never took it.
Now though, it just seems like a dull constant heart breaking pain. Sometimes worse than others. If I keep my mind busy, it tends to help make things a little better.
Thank you for the advice.
Rock

You've gotten a lot of advice Rock.

What of it have you taken?

Is there some payoff for you for staying depressed, for choosing to remain a victim?

From the sound of it, you probably needs anti-anxiety and AD's both. At one point, I needed both too. Helped immensely.

Doesn't make you a bad person, a courageous person gets help regardless of how uncomfortable it is for them.

You've got to be a person she would want, if you want her to want you, yanno?

Dude, that is depression. Crying, trouble getting out of bed, heart breaking pain, sometimes worse than others--textbook depression. Xanax won't help that. Anti-depressants will. Lots and lots of people take ADs. They change peoples' lives.

There is no shame in taking them. Depression is a disease. If you had an infection, you would take antibiotics, right?

Get help. You will feel so much better. Do something to help yourself. People will get tired of listening to you if you don't.

[/quote]
People will get tired of listening to you if you don't. [/quote]

Ha. I'm already experiencing that. Maybe it's not really depression. Maybe it's me just feeling sorry for myself. I'm gonna give it a shot and try to have a better outlook on things and see how that goes.