Rock,

Your post started out positive then very quickly those good things that happened seemed to go by the wayside by the end of the post.

Don't dwell on the negative to the point you downplay the strides that you two have made okay?

Another thing that caught me was the numerous assumptions that were present but I see DH59 already beat me to the punch on that one!

That thread DH pointed to is a good one too btw, I think FWS could do a lot for their M recovery by understanding the nature of forgiveness.

I know that Harley makes some comment that the WS doesn't really have to "get it", I mean get what they did and the extent of it only that they commit to the marriage and towards recovery. WELL for me at least the above would have been (moot point since we D'd) required. I would not feel comfortable recovering a marriage with someone who didn't "get it" as much as I and other family members, friends, loved ones "GOT IT" while she was out having an affair. That would be a personal boundary of mine (gnashing of teeth, sack cloth and ashes, the whole bit).

I think it is very hard for me being a FWS. I "got it". Being so remorseful for what I did really makes it really hard to understand why she would do it. She told me now that she has learned how awful affairs are.
I really am feeling positive about some recovery. It's hard to understand why she did this, but I think it's maybe even harder to accept the things that I contributed to her downfall.
Thanks guys.

You cannot judge what someone else does by how you do it. I have certainly learned that fact recently. I would have bent over backwards from the very beginning if I had the A, but I had to accept that my FWH just did it his way, and it's turned out good in the end. Could have ended quicker, though, if it had been my way!!

Anyway, it sounds good that you've both made some progress.


This was one thing holding me back - constant regret and beating myself up about why I did this or didn't do that in our relationship. Forgive yourself and you will get over this hurdle. You cannot go back and change it, therefore you need to accept that it happened, and just concentrate on the good things happening now. Make the future better. Work at it. You're getting closer all the time!!

Hello. I hope all of you fathers had a nice Fathers Day. Mine was uneventful, but that’s ok. After taking ten baby steps forward lately, we seem to have taken a couple backwards. I came to find out from a letter I read that she wrote OM2 that there was some physical contact when she had told me all along that there wasn’t. I know it shouldn’t really make a difference, I suppose. To me, if the intent is there, that’s good enough. In fact, I learned that she was aggressively pursuing a PA with this jerk. This was a guy who was a trainer in a gym who started it all by showing my FWW pictures of his genitals on his computer. ( I am really amazed that there are people out there like that)
Last night I read this letter before I left to go to church by myself. I approached my wife and told her that I found out that she had kissed OM2 and that she was trying hard to have sex with this guy.
I went to church and prayed like I haven’t in a long time. I told God that I had failed in my marriage. I asked for strength to get me through this. I remember back to when I was getting married and was taught that it takes the three of us for a successful marriage. Me, my wife and God. It seems like it’s just me and God right now. Actually it feels like it’s just me.
After church I went to the cemetery. First to visit my father’s grave and then to visit my son’s grave. I sat and had a good cry.
I came home and my wife asked me if I wanted to file the divorce papers. I told her, no, I don’t do divorce. I believe in marriage. I told her that I wanted to fix my marriage and I believe that it can be fixed. She told me that she didn’t know how much more of this she could take.
I told her that confused me. I told her that there is nothing I would want more than to get through all of this and put it all behind us, but it seems I am always discovering more lies all of the time. I told her that from the start that all I want is for her to be open and honest with me. I just want the truth. She told me that she wanted to protect me.
Basically, she got into my affair 13 years ago and maybe she has never dealt with it correctly. I told her that I am pretty much done with what I did. I owned up to it, I regret it, I worked hard afterwards to do the right thing and that I am definately not the person anymore that did that. To this day I have had to live with what I did and hate myself everyday for it. I told her that the counselors that I talked to told me that they could see thatI am racked with guilt and that I have to stop beating myself up or I can never move forward. Anyway, I was left defending myself once again. Obviously she has never forgiven me.
I told her again how much I cherish my marriage and that she is everything to me. I told her that when we were married that I took it pretty seriously. She told me that our relationship was always a joke to me.
She told me that she hates getting older and that she hates her looks. I guess that’s why these guys were younger than me. I must make her feel old. I told her that to me she is the most beautiful woman in the world. I asked her how come if I tell her how good she looks it doesn’t mean anything, but if any guy trying to get in her pants tells her, she’s all over him. She said she didn’t know. I asked her if I got in better physical shape would she love me? She wouldn’t answer, so I assume that is the truth. Although I would stick by her if she gained 100 pounds.
Sometimes this fight seems so futile. It’s like I’m trying to sail this boat all by myself. I can’t seem to ever get any love from my wife. I believe affection is one of my top EN, so this is extra tough.
Later that night I took my daughter to the nearby high school track and did a few laps. I guess I have to drop a few pounds to win my wife back. I don’t know what else to do.
I just hope that all of the truth is out now. That’s all I want and ever wanted.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

I'm still listening Rock. I don't have anything to say right now other that I read your post and I do feel for you and your wife.

An idea!! How about dropping that weight while you save up to call the Harleys? I think they could up you two up on a plan to help.

Here is a snippet from an email she sent me today:

I know you have a million things on your mind. Me too. Probably more than you know. I remember lying there and saying I know I love him, but I don't know what my problem is. I am cold, I know that. I don’t know how to change what has been done. I don't know how to make it better. I am an awful person. Here I have this guy that loves me, but I can't take it. For some reason I don’t want it. I am really confused. Confused at my feelings, so much under stress.

Even though I do like my job here, I will start looking for other government postings. Not sure I will find anything as good but I guess that does not matter. I need to take the advise of people on the MB and take steps to show you that I am committed to this recovery. But it is hard. It is going to be a hard long road. So here is hoping that you can in some way try to have a good day. I am terribly sorry for everything. I don’t know what more to say. I'm sorry. I love you, I'm sorry.

Rock!

This is great news!

This also confirms my belief that a lot of us FWSs don't really know the "why"...

She has a lot of things on her mind, more than you know according to her. I believe it. She probably doesn't even know how to put into words what she feels, a lot of times I didn't. So you don't get her sharing and you're left wondering. But here she's trying to share something...

When she says she has this guy who loves me but can't take it...that suggests to me that she (like myself) was looking/expecting another person to make her happy. It's a tough road to accept that it's not up to anyone else to make you happy. She's looking externally, when she has to find it within herself. The world/society teaches us that things/people will bring us happiness. How many of us, how much of the rest of the world...is operating under that fallacy. If I was thinner, richer, better looking, my spouse was this, that or the other...all external.

She will have to struggle through that issue, like I did, and hopefully through a lot of hard work, get rid of those mistaken beliefs that we have based our choices on all these years.

LA has been immensely helpful to me in that regard, I'm sure she'd be helpful to her too if she'd give a shout out to her.

To me, her email was a really good sign for you two...


MAZ

Great news Rock....

And Mrs. Rock,I have been on you before about that job and you have made yourself proud by prioritizing your M and your family. Congratulations to you and Rock.

I will be praying for strength and healing for both of you.

God bless,

Thanks MAZ. This makes a lot of sense.

RB,

I'm here...got your shout out...and I'm reading on your thread where I left off last...to catch up.

It's a must(ard), which I relish.

I think you can see, I'm just hot-dogging now.

LA

Rock, I eventually discovered the truth about some things that had earlier been lied about. It's the way it happens, as I'm sure you will gather reading all the stories on this site. And it will hurt for these things to keep coming back and hitting you in the face, but eventually, you will have to start to recover your sanity. The first step I took was to say to myself that these things were all done and said way back when they were in 'The Fog', and that nothing could be done about it now, as long as apologies were given, which they were in my case, and also appears to be in yours, according to your later post. Appreciate that your W is now opening up and work on that progress.


Well, it appears that the truth is now coming out, but the truth does hurt sometimes, and some people just can't bring themselves to say things that they think will hurt someone. Try and give her some credit for the current progress. You've been in those shoes yourself, so you must have some appreciation of what she's going through, as she must for you as well. You may yet discover more lies. These things are built on lies, so it should be no surprise to you that some more revelations may will surface. That's why I asked the questions I did - so that I could get to the bottom of what was really bothering me and then not worry about all the other inconsistencies. Life's too short to let every little nuance get to you.

Take care.

SB,

I'm all behind and about DH59's " That's why I asked the questions I did - so that I could get to the bottom of what was really bothering me and tben not worry about all the other inconsistencies."

Getting to the bottom of what is really bothering YOU...in you.

And I heard you in your previous posts raise the question I did to my WH, though not in the words I pummelled my WH with: "How could you do this KNOWING how devastating it is? How could you?"

Underneath it all...there is the idea that MrsRock knows this road...she had to walk it first.

Which is why through my own experience, I see only recovery and thriving for you both, together, in a couple of years...because that's where my DH and me walked...that's how close...because my DH handled my A's much the way your FWW did...he stayed, he didn't call me on my stuff...even befriended/accepted OMs...in his way. He buried, denied and didn't look the full devastation in the eye.

Here I was, a full-blown WW believing my DH would not do this to me...beyond imagining...so was the pain.

You both know this now...you know how you reset your own boundaries around you...which is why you won't be wayward again, RB...that's what I believe...and so have I. My DH is working on his...because he betrayed himself back then, as well...because he didn't cut off contact, didn't tell them to their faces what scum they were...he beat himself up with thinking something was wrong with HIM that I would stray. Yes, that he was so awful, I deserved to betray our marriage.

I took advantage of that back then. What about you, SB? You were getting yourself set and straight from your choice to have an A long before I had a clue...what about you? How much did you take off her shoulders, you think, in setting her straight that OW would never be apart of your lives...no contact, no part?

Leftover crap, SB...we work through all of it. We really do. And we do it together.

MrsRock...I believe your road to your personally redemption will be in finding that other job...I really do. Until I got how taking such bold actions really did go towards repairing our marriage, I was resistant, vacillating and could only see the downside of the possibility. I'm so glad I took those measures...and that my DH chose to, as well. Going out on that limb really set inside me my priorities, once and for all...and I KNEW I was different...finally...because

I made different choices. Even the really hard ones.

I encourage you for the same for correcting all the protective lies and lies by omission. Each one you correct and own, is another step to respecting your BH. Says "I know you can take the truth; it's the deception which kills." Every admission of truth IS an act of love of self, your BH and the marriage.

I've found it to be the way out of a wayward mindset. Respect your BH, MrsR...he's stronger, clearer, more forgiving, understanding and can take the really hard hits necessary for recovery. He's that strong. What he isn't strong enough for, and no one is, is for the trickle down truth...because the hits keep on coming, and each new discovery, no matter how tiny it may seem to you, puts him back at DDay all over again. Because of our human design...NOT because he's taking it too hard, out of proportion or vengefully.

And to your email to RB, which I think is so very brave and true...what I hear you saying is that you're choosing to love BH and you feel fear from that choice...deep, abiding fear. Doesn't mean it's a feeling to act on...you know where you've gotten yourself by acting on your feelings...and choosing to believe you WILL know because you are courageous enough to go inward, find your stuff, own and know it...and share it...so that you commmit to knowing what you don't know right now...that's where you most want to be. You want to trust yourself, be reliable to yourself...and you will be. If you commit to it.

Takes a lot of self-deception for three OMs...no bash...from my own experience...and the wayward state of mind continues, even with NO OMs...I promise you. Until you choose to live your life from respect and truth, it won't change. Gimble had to say this for my life to change:

An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

Breaking that truth down, learning all the ways I created and nurtured resentment in myself, where I didn't respect (protecting from truth), lied to my own self, and used the signal of entitlement to trace it all...that's when I earned my F, which is FREEDOM....FWW...and chose to really recovery, both personally and maritally.

In your email, you said you were sorry, and that you can't go back and change the past. Not in our human design. What is there, though, is amends. You amend in the present...won't erase the past...will certain change your future. Amends...like you looking for other gov't positions...is the action of an apology which is necessary in forgiveness. And you're doing that. Big kudos.

MAZ identified one of the roots of infidelity...since you both have made that choice...look to understanding enmeshment, being living mirrors to one another (which appears to work great until you stop reflecting what the other wants to be seen as), and choosing the image that you complete each other (which says on the flip side of that belief that you BOTH are incomplete and lacking). You guys don't. You're both marvelously made human beings, by God's hand, whole and complete...and if you choose to see yourself growing side by side...you WILL. And you will share...and know...and act intimately, through respect; you'll rebuild trust (nothing to an extreme) the more you learn to trust yourselves. There is you, him and The Marriage (God's part of your union)...and because of that third part...you can honor marital boundaries, even when you do not feel like honoring your BH...or yourself. You can respect this union, even when you're hurting, wanting so badly to hurt back or self-soothe unhealthily, because The Marriage has not harmed you in anyway. It's been your place of safety before, your half of something bigger than yourself...and it remains.

Recovery has the relief of never having to go through this again...doing it well, with eyes wide open...inward and outward...can give you what you've always dreamed of...knowing your DH loves you beyond reason...he chooses you every single day because he does...and you choose him...he can't make you anything but a sandwich...

From this, your family thrives, your life is one of abundance, not lack...all from seeing your part, your half...owning it all the way. Staying committed in your minds (KNOWING you are, even when you don't FEEL like you want to be), and falling in love with your partner over and over again. Totally real, in my experience, MrsR. You really can. And so can SB.

He loves the soul of you, outward. Your totality. You may fear loving his, loving this deeply or intimately...especially after 12 years of acting from fear...which may be why you're right here, right now. Doesn't mean you're weak, wrong or defective at all. Means choosing to react to your fear gives you a fear-based life...leads to wayward state of mind. A really sucky loop.

Choosing to act from love will give you a love-based life...and you will feel abundantly loved, cared for, considered, appreciated, admired and accepted. Your choice.

To me, it's a no-brainer.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

But then, I made the really terrible puns in my acknowledgement to RB's call out. So, for what it's worth...

FWIW...

LA

Thanks LA. That was wonderful. I'm gonna have to sit and digest all that for a while. You brought tears to my eyes.
Thank you.

It's times like these that you need to encourage your FWW. Most waywards don't believe that things can be recovered, but us MB pros know better. Be the rock that shows her the way. Let her know that you know how difficult things are right now, but that all the struggles that you two are going through now will make the rewards of your future recovered marriage all the more special. You need to be her cheerleader and believe in her. Right now she doesn't believe in herself, and she can tell if you don't believe in her. Rock, you know this will get better, so project that strength and lead your FWW through these difficult times.

RB,

I hear poking you in the eye gets the same result.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

You're welcome...both of you...to my experience...not an act of kindness...an act of honesty...holding to my code...because neither of you are alone.

Do you need some Tums with my post?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA your responses always seem like a calm in the storm. Calm and soothing and helps make me look at situations differently and for what they are.
Your replys really seem to hit home because our situations seem rather similiar.
Thanks for taking the time to help us. You too jmwc. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Rock

I have a feeling that something is finally happening here. You are getting some helpful posts and I hope you can work on them and get things moving for both of you.

Take care - of each other.

Thanks for the encouragement DH. I really hope that you are right. I think I a m coming to the realization that I will never really get the truth about everything. Like you told me earlier, these things are all built on lies. A lot of things that she has told me that I thought was the truth were lies. I think that is something that is so frustrating and hard to understand. Like LA told me, every little new nugget of half-truth that I find out brings me back to my D-Day. I tend to over analyze and over-think things also.
Some things lately have bothered me. She pretty much let me know that she isn’t physically attracted to me (which I am now trying to work on) and she told me that she thinks that SF is repulsive. I don’t understand why she would feel that way. She sure didn’t think it was with these other guys. I’m now stuck with the aftermath,I guess.
I do feel confident though that eventually we can recover.
I remember when I first came here, I was told that this takes a LOT of time. Boy were they right.
Thanks DH. I hope things are going well for you.

Why? She despises herself for being who she is/was. She despises herself for becoming an immoral, loose woman and being used by men. She despises herself for violating her own principles/beliefs to participate in sexual affairs outside of marriage and relates all this to having sex.

She's not attracted to you because you remind her of who she has become and who she will never be again. That's why.