Well,hey MAZ. Speak of the devil. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I wanted to address this...

My opinion is that she "feels" she doesn't want it, but wants to want it...(for myself, I wanted to be "happy" but I didn't know how...)

What I think is at the crux of this statement is her feeling completely unworthy of love. Her issues with self-esteem/looks and the way her A's were manifested, lead me to suspect this is at the core of her unhappiness.

I don't think she realizes what she really wants...she wants to feel whole, loveable, complete, worthy. The A's were attempts to find those feelings externally. As long as she keeps looking externally for things that only she can find within herself, she will feel this way.

She needs to learn to love herself and see herself as wonderful, unique and special, as she was from the moment she was born, without having to do or be...anything.

When she can love herself, she can let in your love as well.

This brought to mind something my DH told me not long after d-day, after my many protestations of being unhappy and not in love, that one day he was certain, I would love him again and be happy.

Except for the ocassional pothole, he's right. Not so much because he changed (which he did to some extent) but because I did.

Oh, and I wanted to recommend you check on an author named Bradshaw (I think John). He has several books, any of them would be great.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Devil? Where, where?

not here, no way!

[/quote]
This brought to mind something my DH told me not long after d-day, after my many protestations of being unhappy and not in love, that one day he was certain, I would love him again and be happy.

Except for the ocassional pothole, he's right. Not so much because he changed (which he did to some extent) but because I did.
[/quote]

I like this MAZ. Thanks.
I will check into that author also.

“I didn't have a WS who was willing to do what it took to recovery, either. Not like me as a WS, either. I can truly relate. I don't think I could have gotten this far into recovery without Alanon because of that dissimilarity”
*** So did your WS finally do what it took for your recovery? What made him decide to start working on the recovery, or what did you do to start?

“Another chord your marriage strikes in mine...a part of our downfall was no UA, kids first, no RC, no time to let our inner children play as they did when we dated and embarked in the early years of marriage. I hear you”
***This is definitely true. What is frustrating to me is that mrs.rock just doesn’t seem to think that it is very important. She would rather just work, sleep and be by herself.


“I'm wondering how you determine all the tiny right things...to your own code...your boundary enforcements holding you to your own code...where you aren't crazy in love with yourself, your wholeness (not a million little pieces) and feeling thrilled with yourself.”
***I don’t know. I guess it’s just that my choice to do the right things now is based upon how much I learned from my mistake. I learned a lot.
As far as me not being “crazy in love with myself”, I think that has to do with me never really forgiving myself and also basing a lot of my self-love on how I feel mrs.rock feels about me.


“I believe in you. I believe in MrsRock...she is as capable and whole as you are. I believe in your marriage.”
***Thank you. I have my doubts sometimes though.

My problem still is the triggers and the thoughts I have. I know one thing I do a lot of is making little comments, jabs if you may, when something reminds me of something that happened. Not always. I wish I knew why I feel the need to do that. I know that it doesn’t help at all and probably is a big LB. Do you think it’s because I am trying to hurt her or to let her know that I haven’t forgot what happened? I wish I knew what I was really trying to accomplish by these.

Happy Birthday, Rock!

What did DH do...well, he chose to go to MC. He chose to do the communication exercises with me. He chose to do the R talk for 20 minutes every Thursday night. He chose to go out to dinner with me...take walks. He chose to work on our marriage for two years. He chose to tell me he loved me again.

All these things were really difficult for him. He did a lot of them before recommitting to working on the marriage. He moved back into our bedroom. It was tiny bits and I counted them. Each time he answered a question, I counted it. Valued his choice.

What did we do to start? We were already in MC...we continued it? I don't know. We went on vacation for a week...that was a first. He bought me earrings. Gosh, Rock, I really can't recall a start.

What else counted greatly...two things. One, I snooped in front of him. I counted that he sat there while I viewed his cell, checked his car, instead of doing this stuff secretly. Two, I shared my triggers. I said began to state what triggered me, how I felt right then, and I counted he would listen, nod. Sometimes he would touch, like holding my hand. Sometimes he would say sorry. I didn't share my triggers to get him to say or do anything. I shared them as they happened to hold to my code of honesty. It was tough. I still do that. In the last six months, he began to share his.

I owned my triggers...wasn't accusatory, more informational. He saw how they were transitory, not his fear of permanent. How the trigger would come on, I would state, and I would choose not to dwell, rehash.

I also counted all he didn't do. He didn't file for divorce, move back out, continue contact or his A or begin another one. He didn't stop MC. He didn't walk away when I spoke or tell me to shut up, he didn't want to hear it. He didn't accuse me of rubbing his face in anything. He didn't call me a crybaby or a drama queen. He listened.

He would often say, "I get that."

I think if I hadn't decided to share my triggers, I would have jabbed at him, also. I was very snarky through most of our marriage. So was my DH. We both lived in a world of blame, so our constant craving was to be blameless...see? You made me do/say this. We had a lot of if onlys and what ifs in our heads all the time. We would say "you have no right because I didn't." Could be about chores, the kids, anything. Blame dodge ball through constant judgment. We really wanted to be right more than married.

What I know now is to share what is in my head is what I didn't do before...to share and let the outcome go. Removing judgment greatly increased my feeling of acceptance and partnership. Removing blame was a big boost, too, so that my thoughts could be still, aware and safe.

I know we were so enmeshed that I would jab at my DH to see if I bled...by seeing his blood. Clearing that up went a long way to realizing how much I abandoned myself. Found out I equated blame with abandonment...that I drove others away by being wrong, bad or at fault. When I stopped with the blame, I stopped feeling abandoned.

And forgiving myself was something new, as well. Rock, I had a lot more to forgive myself than you do. Really getting that Maya Angelou statement...about what we did with what we knew then, and when we knew more, we did better (she says it so much better, sorry). That was the key...where I figured out God's unending forgiveness was predicated on us only have the right now...makes us new in every moment...because our choices begin all over again, don't they?

Could it be these two things for you? What you didn't break was the enmeshment...knowing where you ended and mrsrock began...and forgiving yourself, which means you cannot forgive her?

Forgiveness is a choice and then a process. Ties into grieving and changing your own beliefs. We forgive our children because they are growing and knowing. They aren't who they were last year...they know more, become responsible for more. A's are acts of our inner children...even when we don't know we have them. Same for jabs, for giving to get, for blame. Fear puts us there, as does pain. How cannot we not forgive?

What does work, sleep and being by herself mean? Was she like that pre-A? Sounds like depression to me. Sounds like a lot of self-punishment, worrying things through, anger turned inward?

When we are enmeshed, it may rather appear to you to be rejection of you, or your marriage. Disdain, abandonment, even punishment of you. If it's just about her...her own choices, not about you...do your feelings change drastically?

When you remove your DJ (she would rather), and insert reality, "She chooses to go to work, be by herself and sleep." Humans do and don't do. When you don't know they whys, be okay with not knowing right now. Ask, share and be present.

How much power we have in how we experience life. Amazes me, Rock.

Be open to wonders today, Rock. They happen. Up to us to see them.

LA

Yay! Thank you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I like that. To be honest, I still snoop a little, but not in front of her. If I were to do that I’m sure it would just tick her off. Sometimes I will tell her about a trigger that I am having. Sometimes she will seem to understand and sometimes I can tell that it just frustrates her.


I really don’t know what it means. I think she is more this way post-A.
I think I’m kind of hoping that she chimes in here.

HAPPY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks MAZ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I called and found out some info on a local Alanon location. I'ma little nervous about if this is something that I really should do. I think I need another little push. Is this something that I should tell her about?

Rock,

Another little push. Ask Ears_Open and Strivn4Better...we all were a little nervous. Means going into a meeting with a group of strangers...not knowing you're already loved, respected before you walk through the door. Takes you doing it for you...for your own stuff. So yes, you'd share. "I have heard about Alanon being a great place for control freaks (or whatever it is you can identify in yourself...that was mine) and I want to go tomorrow night at 7pm. It lasts one hour. Would you be okay with that?"

Or if you are going to do a noon meeting, during work, share with her that evening, after you go. Share your experience, your stuff.

Open and honest...live it and you won't crave it. Won't reach for DJs to fill in blanks...great self-care and an act of love for you and your half of the marriage.

Oh, and The_Tall_Man, also...you can look up their threads...breathe, breathe, breathe...you haven't anything real to lose at all, do you?

You don't have to share...you can try as many groups as you want until you find one you want to stick to...and you'll be welcomed, Rock...guaranteed.

Anonymous...like here. Exploratory.

Free. (Newbies don't donate.)

Fits your budget, doesn't it?

Hey, self-care isn't easy...we are so programmed to not do it...do it anyway.

LA

Just sitting around tonight feeling sorry for myself. I dread going to sleep because I really hate having to wake up and facing this again in the morning. For an instance I think it was just a bad dream, but reality quickly slaps me in the face and I get up and trudge through another day of hoping that this will be the day when she finally comes around.
I spend a lot of time pouring my thoughts into emails to her and very rarely even get any response. I don't know how she can keep all of her feelings locked up inside of her. How can she not talk to anyone about what had happened.
Every night when she comes home from work all she wants to do is be alone or avoid me. It's so depressing.
Oh well, just felt like venting.

Rock - haven't posted to you in a while.

I know exactly how you feel. I think that's pretty typical - the broken record of living life.

Thanks Eph.

Post deleted by RockSolid

Rock - When your wife wants to be alone, is she alone drinking? Does she interact with the rest of the family, go on walks, etc.?

Well, just a little update on me. Nothing big, I just like to keep myself enveloped in the
comfort of all my MB support. Anyway, things are going pretty good. We still don’t discuss M/R very much and she, for the most part, keeps to herself. She did send me a very nice remorseful email out of the blue the other morning. That felt very good. I don’t know if she even realizes how much help it is to hear those things. I told her how much I appreciated her sharing her thoughts and feelings to me.
Do I sense some cracks in the armor? Slooooowly.
I visited my doctor and we both pretty much agreed that I really didn’t need to be on any AD. Maybe I was still feeling good about my FWW remorseful email that day.
I think, with her permission, I will post her email to me.
Thanks for listening.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So here is what she told me. And believe me, as far as our communication goes, this is big.
"I wish I could put into words what is going on in my head. I feel so
horrible. So messed up. So hateful at myself for everything that I
have done. It makes me sick to think that I did those things. How
could I?? What kind of person am I? I think that may be why I am so
withdrawn lately, why I want to be alone. Maybe it is part of the
process, I don't know. I have even had thoughts of telling a few people. Maybe just to explain to them why I have been the way I have
been....does that make sense? I just suck. I can't write to you at
work because I have too much to do, can't do it at home, I have no time.
So all these thoughts just get lost. I want so bad for all your hurt
and pain to go away. I want so bad to be a normal family again. Why
did I have to f*** it up. Take it for granted? I am such an [censored]. I
just want you to know though, if I don't show it, I am thinking about
things and how horrible I was. Here again I got interrupted and lost my
train of thought. But I think you get what I mean.

Well I better go, have a nice day. Love you.

How do you feel about this?

What was your response?

What is your next step?