K, "making amends, making right"

Here's a different twist if you will allow me, suppose the w's pre marital A resulted in a pregnacy, that w found a way to hide and hid it from your friend. Would he have a right to know this before he M'd her?

I know you're busy gimble, but have you thought about this Q?

All Blessings,
Jerry

Thanks very much everyone for your great posts.

As for what he may be hiding, I suspect he is hiding the true depth of his pain, but we will see.

I am going to process everything you all have written and see what I can squeeze out of him in the next couple of days. I will report back.

God bless,
Gimble

bP,

Gotchya.

Gimble, the double standard exists in that he didn't expose his own adultery to his wife but he clearly expects his wife should have told him about her infidelity 30 years ago. By your words, he STILL hasn't told his wife about his adultery at the 15 year point in their marriage. He made that arbitrary decision, but complains she was obligated to tell him of hers. Excuse me?

Nope, two wrongs don't make a right, and I don't think I suggested such. However, expecting your spouse to adhere to a standard you will not isn't kosher either.

I hope they work things out but, frankly, I see little chance of that happening based on what you've relayed to us. What I was thinking when I asked if you need friends who won't use common sense, was a concern that you might get swept up in the train wreck I see coming.

Best regards and good luck.

Jerry wrote:
======================================
Here's a different twist if you will allow me, suppose the w's pre marital A resulted in a pregnacy, that w found a way to hide and hid it from your friend. Would he have a right to know this before he M'd her?

I know you're busy gimble, but have you thought about this Q?
======================================

I'm sure that he would. Wouldn't you want to know?

I'm not sure I am seeing your point.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble, I think he is using her affair as an excuse to not desire her. The real reason he doesn't desire her is something else. Sometimes jealousy makes us desire someone even more. In this case he desires her less. I think it is easier for him to say he has lost his desire for her because of the affair rather than the real reason.

Longhorn wrote:
===============================================
Gimble, the double standard exists in that he didn't expose his own adultery to his wife but he clearly expects his wife should have told him about her infidelity 30 years ago. By your words, he STILL hasn't told his wife about his adultery at the 15 year point in their marriage. He made that arbitrary decision, but complains she was obligated to tell him of hers. Excuse me?
===============================================

Thirty plus years ago, she knew that he was fooling around, so he was exposed. She chose not to tell him of her infidelity then. At the time of marriage, there was not additional infidelity on his part. So she knew about him, he did not know about her.

Back to my first post, his issue is if he had known then, would he have even married her. He is not trying to justify his actions of infidelity.

Are you with me?

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble,
Your friend is stuck, I'm simply trying to define at what point a BS becomes stuck at. It would seem that he is stuck at his W's prior infidelity before they even married.
So as a BS, where do we draw the line? What becomes a deal breaker, and what is it we can live with?

Your friend, IMHO, has drawn a very high line of morality for his W, while completely ignoring his own immorality. This, to me, would suggest a double line concerning HIS morality versus HERS.
Why the double standard? These are rehotorical Q's he must ask himself. Where do each of us draw the line in the sand? Why does it apply differently to you than it does to our spouse?

Just curious.

All blessings,
Jerry

Yes, I apologise, I was like your friend, looking for justification for my "stuckness."

I'm sorry,
All blessings,
Jerry

But, Gimble, he's saying he had a right to make a decision (whether to stay or go) at the time of her (unexposed) infidelity, but he HAS DENIED HER that same right in connection with HIS unexposed infidelity. Don't you see that as a double standard? Why does he have the right of opting out of the marriage at the time of the infidelity but she doesn't?

BTW, I don't equate her finding out about his infidelity with him admitting it to her at the time and place. Did any admission actually happen before she confronted him with her knowledge?

Gimble,

""She is willing to go to counseling, he is not. I understand why he won't, and I can't argue with his reasons.""

Please explain.

If you understand why he is not willing to go to counseling then maybe you have the answer yourself.

And why can't you argue with his reasoning?

Thanks,

kirk

Jerry wrote: "Why does it apply differently to you than it does to our spouse?"

That is the question, isn't it, yet I see the disparity in play all the time.

I am amazed at some of the betrayed spouses on this forum that seem to walk through their wayward spouse's affair like it was nothing more than a breeze, while others completely fall apart, almost unable to breathe.

That is why I try not to judge harshly in a situation where both spouses have been unfaithful, and one has greater difficulty with it than the other. Everyone has their own breaking point.

God bless,
Gimble

Hi, krusht.

He feels that he has read all the good books, and that the books are supposedly written by the best minds out there. So he thinks that his chances of finding a local counselor that can "top the top", are slim.

Obviously, he is of a mindset that he won't get anything out of it, so I agree with him. I think it would be a waste of time if he is unwilling to chance it.

Gimble

Do you know the guy's mother, if she is still around and what kind of person she is or was? Madonna complex has many manifistations. I used one of the variants from the classic (in my mind). Maybe there is another term to explain:

The woman for marriage is "Pure." The woman for passion is, uh, "Tainted." It is that simple. And many, many men are so afflicted. His sexual escapades reveal an entitled personality which is typical of those males with the above mentioned complex.

Shinethrough says the same thing, basically:


You said you understood why he wouldn't go to counseling, but didn't exactly detail why other than he doesn't think it can be fixed. While I understand that some counselors are about as ethical as politicians, I am still surprised that you wouldn't at least refer him to the Harleys. If you haven't shared why, then I suspect most of us are whistling in the wind to help with any degree of understanding.

When he discover that his wife knew about his 15 year old affair? Was it just before he started having his problems? If so, there is another direction to explore.

Finally, tell him to try viagra. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, the guy is covering up. If not, then stealing a line from Bob, he needs to pull his head out.

Larry

Hi, Longhorn.

Quote:
==============================================
...but he HAS DENIED HER that same right in connection with HIS unexposed infidelity.
==============================================

That is true, he did for a time. Since his exposure, his wife is clear and free to make a choice to leave him. He understands that. She understands that.

Regardless, his issue (she has her own set of issues with the situation), is that he was uniformed of her affair at the initiation of their marriage, while she WAS informed of his activities at the initiation of the marriage.

He views his affair 15 years into the marriage as a separate event, obviously, that as a matter of course, might very well NOT have happened had he known the truth before marriage.

Whether that plays into anyone's sense of "fair", to him, is immaterial. He feels he has taken responsibility for his past actions.

Gimble

Gimble, the same thing happened to me while I was engaged, my H was having an affair. I found out in the first year of our marriage. Had I known about all this, I would have chosen NOT to marry him. This was information about him to which I was ENTITLED but it was wrongfully withheld from me. I was tricked and DEFRAUDED into marrying him and deeply resented it. How DARE anyone make decisions about my life without my PERMISSION?

That is how I felt then and is how I feel now.

That being said, over time those feelings have faded. My husband has demonstrated over the years that he is a worthwhile husband and I am glad to have him for a husband NOW. But it took some time to view it that way. I do know that I have always had the option of divorcng him and your friend has this option open to him also. He CAN take it if he feels she is not worth it.

I will also point out that your friend is at a critical place in his recovery where many BS' are quite angry. For me, it was at the 8-9 month mark and I see this happen in the recovery process with many BS. It is when the shock wears off and fury sets in. It seemed to be the CLIMAX for me. This phase passed pretty quickly, and after the 1 year mark things got better and better every month. He may be at that phase RIGHT NOW. So, tell him to wait another year until he makes any decisions about his marriage. This may all be a forgotten memory in a years time.

Gimble:


I need orchid to interpret that one. It makes absolutely no rational whatsover (ever, whatever, sover, uh, duh). Is he an otherwise sane type of person except at a full moon?

OR, does that mean if he had known she was THAT sexual, he coudda got (demanded, pushed, cajoled) what he missed those 30 years since she obviously was, uh, er, gasp, a fallen woman?

You play golf with this guy? You owe him money? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hair ball turning into sticky hair ball.

Larry

Larry

Hi gimble,
]
Urrrr,,,,, I don't think I wrote this, but noneteless, I think it's a good quote.

Nonetheless, I know what it feels like to be be "stuck." I've known it all my M'd life. However, having said that, I also am cognizant of what God means by being in a Covernant marriage.

God hates divorce, and that's the bottom line. Stuck or unstuck is irrevelant. We can only be what He want's us to be, when we die to ourselves.


All Blessings,
Jerry

Hi, Larry.

His parents are long dead.

He doesn't want to counsel with the Harleys because they are younger than him.

His 15 year old, 2 month affair was exposed well after she confessed to her 30 year old, 2 month affair.

(Man, this would make a good movie).

He doesn't need viagra. His parts work, his "want to" is broken.

Obviously, "the fix" is for him to just get past it. I am just trying to help him find an anchoring point, not slap him upside the head <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gimble