Larry


For whom?

I think the composition of the board has changed some -- as people come and go. Some people's stories just seem to pop out and grab you and I wonder where some of them have gone. On to bigger and better things, I always hope.

For me, personally, I guess a lot has changed. Maybe I've grown up some or maybe I've just become a little more jaded. I think there was a time when I first started posting here that I believed that reasonable minds could agree to disagree nicely (not always true as has been demonstrated here on this forum, I am not referring to this thread ).


Helped who?

I guess there might be some people who respond to that type of approach and no other. Or, perhaps they even prefer it or it's most effective. From my vantage point it generally just tends to become circular.

I also just have very serious personal objections against using shaming techinques against people as I consider them to be abusive. I don't believe anonymous message boards make abusive behavior OK. And, I often wonder if people would use the same language, the same escalation of emotion, and the same techniques if there was a flesh and blood person sitting in front of them instead of a text editor. Or, to be even more specific to each and EVERY flesh and blood person sitting before them if there was a rotating number as we have here. I even know that's probably hypocritical of me because I do know that my communication here is definitely much different than how people experience me in so called "real life." Is it license or is it a limitation of the media which we're using?


I've learned a lot. I've learned about points of view I never even knew existed - and maybe even provided a few that others didn't know existed.


I think my marriage is better because of MB. It's been a place to come and get alternate perspectives, if nothing else. Just because all of the alternate perspectives might not fit doesn't mean they have no value.


I don't think you'd get the majority of the board to agree ON the "right" methods.

What I mean is, that there seem to be wildly different opinions on the application (or meaning), timing (or length), appropriateness, reasons, etc. of the key MB plan components. (And, no, I'm not trying to start another argument on any of it.)

I think, in large part, each poster's style/board personality is affected by where they fall along the spectrum of the collective understanding of the key components - and not just their particular use of linguistic style to convey meaning.

I don't think we'll ever be able to level set. I don't think a homogenous community would be more effective in a general sense -- though it might be much, much more effective for people who fit into the homogenity.

But, I do think the original post in this thread -- mentioning to the BS that it's a bad idea to bash the OP to their, specific, WS is a valid point. I do think it alerts BS's to the defensiveness that might happen -- and I think in a way it protects the BS from harm because that might be one less pitfall they have to stumble down because it was discovered by those who have gone before. (How hurtful must it be to sit there and listen to your WS defend the OP - which seems to happen a lot. It isn't right, but it's more "business as usual" and "something you might expect" - while dealing with a WS.

I've thought a lot about what Pep said to me: maybe coming here and burning the OP in effigy on this board is a better form of catharsis for the BS to engage in. Certainly, it seems like it might do less damage over all.

Mys

I saw you use your trick recently Pep and I learned from it. Thanks for the lesson. The other lesson I learned is that there is merit in the concept "Sometimes."

Thank you.

Larry

Does NO ONE get my pun?

are you people asleep at the wheel?

Mrs. W ~ did that really never occur to you until you read that here? That "good people" do not screw other people's spouses?

MYS:


I agree and thanks cookie for bringing up the discussion of that particular point.



I have no points of disagreement with you on your post. The other point I picked out to respond to is that I learned what you are talking about yesterday and I am going to apply it to something going on with another person here.

Larry

Are you refering to your thong again???

My husband was singing OW's praises to me pre-discovery ... because she was visiting ~his~ mother

"She is such a good person."

it ain't that unusual for the foggy to have rose-colored glasses when it comes to viewing OP .... they are "good"

Free association is a sign of mental health, smartcookie.

And speaking of cookies, is it lunch time yet? I'm sooooo hungry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

PS I am glad to see you posting again SC! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yep. No longer do they think the way they used to Mrs. W (and me) would have known it was bad before, but once in the addiction the mind just does not work the same way as it did before. So I believe somethings just really do not occur to the foggy.

Er, care to explain yourself, uh, please.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Larry

Yeah, c'mon Pep... I have to get off the computer and I want to know.

MF...

It really never did, shocking as I KNOW that sounds...I was so completely fogged out and believing all the "assoulmate" nonsense that I was living completely in another world...FANTASYLAND..."Soap Opera" world even...Especially since OM and I had dated off and on for nine years during high school and college...I had a real hero complex regarding OM-I thought of him as "rescuing me" (SO LAUGHABLE to me now) as he had done many times legitimately in the past...when I was SINGLE and it was appropriate-I couldn't see the forest for the trees...I had some silly, EXTREMELY IMMATURE, romanticized notion that we were "star crossed lovers" *gagpukevomit*...so "meant to be"...we'd just "lost our way" over the years...Good Grief, I was starring in my very own HOlequin HOmance novel...COMPLETE BULLCRAP...(LOL, Speaking of "bullcrap" one Ms. MelodyLane told me something VERY similar when I first got here...I spouted some ridiculous fog drivel and she posted a hilarious little emoticon of a bull "doing his business" and she said something like "Here's what we call what you just said in Texas!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...It was FUNNY, TRUE and I did not feel bashed one bit...I like straight up no nonsense talk...Worked wonders for me...She and Pep neither one let me get by with my shannanigans back then! Thank God for them!)

Mrs. W

P.S. Btw Larry, in your first post on this thread it appeared that you attributed the above quote of MINE to smartcookie...It's all good, but I just wanted to let you know for clarity! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pepisms for dummies

refering to finding a crack

"It's awl good!"

awl good here [color:"red"]<~~~ for poking at cracks [/color]

I thought I'd told you to layoff the CRACK lady!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

P.S. I think you're really PUNNY btw! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

SC,

“My original post had a very specific and narrow focus. Now it's a free-for-all.”

Back to your original point: In fact, many professional counselors and psychologists strongly disagree with what you say you were taught. The Stockholm syndrome and its variants, interpretations, such as the subject situation, and treatments are not considered rigorous. In fact, deprogramming of cult individuals specifically eschews being nice about the cult and its leaders.

Everyone is different. Even WS. Lumping all sitchs under one rule is probably not a good approach. Better to give the BS a number of approaches and ideas and, yes, even extreme words to use, and then help them do what they believe will work best in their sitch, don’t you think? This might include to tell WS the unadulterated truth about what BS feels about OP. Or should BS have to take their feelings about OP on the chin like everything else?

If your esteemed teachers are saying, in effect, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, well then OK. I’ll recommend we all praise WS, their OP, and all their actions ‘till the cows come home if that’s what works and that’s what you want.

But remember this: you catch the most flies of all with unadulterated manure.


Why does telling the truth = bashing? When does BS get to tell their truth, anyway? When?

SC, in all of the posts I recall having read of yours, you rarely and perhaps never display empathy for BS. Only WS. Why is that?

Lastly, what do you think of the MC I mentioned above that we had years ago that did not want us to use the word adultery to describe what WW was doing?

ed: It occurs to me exposure to OP's friends and family also falls entirely within your recommendation to not to upset WS by appearing mean to OP.

Aph...I know that you didn't ask this question of me, but I'd like to render a guess...On another infidelity site, SC has in her signature line that her most recent Dday was just back in November of 2006 for a one night stand that happened in 1996...It's my opinion that SC has remained in the WS mindset for a VERY long time...Explains a lot in my book...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W ~ thanks so much for explaining this...I have this deep need / desire to want to get inside WSs heads, to try to better understand foggy thinking. I can see and hear it coming from WSs or even FWSs before they completely de-fog, but seeing it and hearing it does not necessarily mean understanding it. So, I am still trying.

FWSs are so useful around here, and very impressive as well. It is a very noble and brave thing to do, air your dirty laundry here ~ but sure goes miles and miles in earning respect and admiration back, and I am sure also helps tremendously in earning some trust back. Sounds like it also helps to clear your mind from the fog.

In an intervention of an alcoholic or drug addict as well. Nothing is shielded from the addict as to the harm he is doing to himself and others. OR about the harm of his drug of choice.

Can you imagine having an intervention and then saying, well vodka isn't so bad. It is not the vodka's fault, vodka is just a drink.

In reality vodka is poison, and so is an AP.

Ditto on everything you said here, Aph.

Thank you for posting it. People don't understand the deep pain a BS feels when they are told that they need to listen to WS sing the praises of OP. Shoot, even referring to the OP as a "good person" is like driving a knife through the BSs heart.

Because what we're thinking is "Well, gee ~ you've called me a "good person" too. So you're gonna lump me and OP in the same category? OP, someone who tried to break up a marriage, slept with a married person, and aided you in "raping" me?,and who volunteered to get involved with a married person? That is the same as me, the BS, the one who had no say in any of this, whose life has been ripped to shreds, and who then tries desperately, and sometimes repeatedly to save their marriage? To offer to try to forgive you for this indescribably painful transgression? We're in the same category?".

That is so hurtful, like we aren't hurting enough.