Naw, you left because you wanted to and for no other reason. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Why not take responsibility for your own choices like a big girl?

yankees! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Since this is a bashing thread, I have a confession to make. I bashed my w's OM, PHYSICALLY!
Someone mentioned eggs, yep, that's what his face looked like, scrambled eggs. Only not yellow, and puffy, just red and puffy.

OK, I'm sorry, it was wrong, and it was years ago. OTOH, he got Dr H's message about NC very clearly and that was it!

Shoot me if you want, but it was wrong and now my burden to live with. I plead innocent under the extreme emotional defence theory. Hope God accepts this/

All Blessings,
Jerry

I don't think it was wrong at all.... someone screwing your wife deserves to have his nose moved to his forehead.

Good for you Jerry.

I apologise,
I didn't ask for my w's accepetence before I did this. Yea right <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Jerry

You did what we all want to do. On some level, anyway.

Um, now here is a real hair ball of a question.

What is the difference between a WS and an OP?

Larry

Uh, what was wrong? How is that a burden? Why would I want to shoot you? ROFLMAO I trust your knuckles weren't hurt too bad.

I used to shoot pool with an assortment of leg breakers, any of whom could be called on for a favor and the OM in my case knows it. One of my kids accidently dialed his number using my wife's cell phone one day and I got an IMMEDIATE callback on MY number (or email, I forget which) assuring me that he was making zero attempts to have any contact with anyone except with whatever approval I might issue, which means none. I subscribe to the "Revenge served cold is best." theory.

Life is what it is.

Larry

IMO... there is no difference except that one you care for the other you don't. But frankly, any WS that gets their asss handed to them has it coming. I know that I would have been okay with my ex getting knocked in the nose by the OBS. he had it coming to her and sometimes justice knocks on the door.

Well I would agree with you Larry, but then that old saying; "It takes two to tango" just keeps haunting my mind. If I would hate and want to kill OM for what he has done, why then would I feel differently about my FWW?
So this Q has plagued me to no end. OTOH, my W is repentant, whereas, OM is not. Just another notch on his bed post, if you KWIM.

Very confusing, but, I will say, bashing OP is sometimes good for the soul, even if certain sencibilties of WS is offended. It does not in any way compare to the offence that WS heaped upon their BS. I'm sure certain people(specifically WS's) will somehow find a way to disagree.

All Blessings,
Jerry

NOW, Suzet, and KnewBetter,
Thank you so much for the reinforcement. It means a lot. (NOW, I served my kids 'bashed potatoes' just last night, yum!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep,
your comic timing is superb!!!

--SC

NBII,
If you were talking to yourself... I'm glad I was evesdropping. Thanks.
--SC

Okay Weave,

Here you go… Here are the things that helped me shed my snakeskin

--OM dumped me.
Sad but true. Had it been up to me, the A would not have ended when it did.

--The Buffalo Story.
I confided to a friend that I was having serious marriage problems (but didn’t mention the affair). She told me a folk tale about the Buffalo that I’m sure I’ll get wrong, but the gist of it is: Native Americans had always noticed that during the rainy season, when a big storm was coming, most wildlife would sense it, and run from it. But the Buffalo would run toward the storm. It seemed so odd. Why would they run INTO a storm rather than try to escape it? Then they noticed, that when the storm would pass, they’d find several dead hares and other animals… but no buffalo carcasses. And what they realized is – the animals that tried to run away from the storm were so exhausted by the time it hit, they had no stamina to survive it. But… by running into the storm, the buffalo saved all of their strength to stand-up to the wind and rain, and survived it quite nicely.

For someone like me – who’d been running from (or at least burying) my problems most of my life -- that story really hit home. “Be like the Buffalo” has become sort-of a mantra for me.

--Plan-A
My husband – not knowing anything about MB or plan-A – did this instinctively. And frankly, if he hadn’t, I would not have been interested in trying to reconcile at all. I can’t speak to the effectiveness of plan A to break up an affair, since my affair was already over. But if done well, I think it can be a very powerful tool to get the attention of a a WS or newbie FWS, and jump-start recovery.

One caveat. I believe the changes the BS makes in plan A to improve him/herself must be “for real”. If they are superficial, or fleeting, or made only to appease the WS…. and are not really in the interest of SELF-improvement… the benefits to you and your marriage won’t last. JMO.

--MC
Got H and me talking.

--MB and this forum
Helped me understand more thoroughly that the affair was an addiction (although I already knew this on some level). Also helped me see some of the things I had been doing to contribute to the sorry state of my marriage pre-A. On my threads, there was no name-calling, hammering, foul language. Just honest, straightforward, caring feedback – in large part from BSs. And I remember thinking how amazing it was that they could actually see my POV from the other side of the infidelity fence. Mortarman was especially skilled at this. Even when I was a raving lunatic, he was able to calm me down… get to the heart of the matter at hand… and help me see what I could do to make things better.

--IC, reading, journaling
Has helped me in so many ways -- from understanding the defense mechanisms and coping skills I had formed as a kid that were no longer working for me…. to more clearly defining my values… to building some self-esteem… and more.

I’m not sure if that’s the kind of stuff you were looking for. But there’s a synopsis of some of the main things that helped me turn myself around.

--SC

Thanks for your answer MEDC. I don't see a whole lot of rushing to the front to give an opinion.

Larry

SC,

Thanks for this thread and thanks for sharing your story.

Ace

The affair had to end first, it really makes no difference in my mind who ended it. Thankfully somebody did.

Don't you think that changing the mind of WS regarding the wonderfullness of the affair partner would be an important part of getting them to rethink the affair?

This was my whole point, and even Mrs. W. said that seeing OM in a non flattering light helped her to break free from him in her mind.

Our minds get screwed up and we give the affair partner qualities that don't exist, that cannot exist if they are partaking in affairs.

When someone quits smoking they first have to change their thought processes about cigarettes. They have to start thinking of cigarettes as being something toxic, bad, disgusting...

As far a cigarettes goes, society helps a great deal in this area. Smokers are looked upon as loosers, as child abusers, as stinkers, etc. It is prohibited in most publics places and all public transportation.

So smokers get a lot of help to change their minds about how wonderful smoking is.

The BS is not able help the WS change their minds about how wonderful the OM/OW is for obvious reasons, but society and MB members can.

It has nothing to do with having bitter resentment for the OP's (although of course we do), it has to do with trying to help them change their faulty thought processes.

If you get a whole board of people, and your family, and your working environment who will not tolerate adultry or romanticizing of the affairee's, people will be less likely to take part in that kind of behavior. We are very much a social animal and all care about what others think of them. We just like monkeys will instinctively mimic others.

Do you see SC, where I am coming from? I see nothing wrong with bashing the OP. I think it is necessary. I don't think we run a WS off by doing so. I do not feel that bashing the OP causes defensiveness in a WS who is looking to change.

Orchid explains it very well in all her posts on here. Because Mel has such experience with addicts, I tend to feel like minded with her strategies and ideas.

I do tend to get a little impatient with active WS's and if they are not interested in changing and stopping their great harm to others mentality or entitlement, then I really don't care about their pain. Just being honest.

You and the other FWS members of this forum are not in the above category in my opinion and you do have a lot to offer, probably more than me because I have never recovered even a relationship, let alone a marriage...but we all must respect the BS who are in a great deal of pain and lash out at an active WS who visits here. They deserve to be able to respond in any way they need to. And who knows maybe it is those harsh posts that will get through.

Weaver,


I do, Weaver. I do see where you're coming from. You present a well reasoned arguement. And I agree that the WS, at some point, needs to see and face the truth about the OP. I just don't agree with you about the best way to reach that goal.


I strongly disagree with this. I don't think anybody "deserves" to be able to lash out at anybody else (except maybe the person who is actually causing the pain). If you're in pain, vent all you want... about your own situation... on your own thread. Don't turn someone else, who may be in a completely different situation than you, into your personal punching bag.

Some have suggested that this is "mostly" a board for BSs. I don't see where that's written -- or even hinted at -- by the founders of the board. The rules of the board state that all are welcome, W's and Bs alike, and that mutual respect is expected.

--SC

It does not happen ofetn, but I fully agree with this statement. If a BS is lashing out at another WS in response to the pain they are feeling over their current situation, then they really should not be engaged in that conversation. The only time that I would see this as helpful is if a WS is not understanding the pain they are causing and by seeing the visceral response of other BS's they are jarred out of their dillusion.

Then we balance each other, and that is a good thing.

It is not always necessary or even desirable for all to agree. This is not a marriage or a couch at the psychotherapy office, it is a support group, a community as Pep said.

We are a peer group. And in a peer group balance is needed.

So good for us for having so many different perspectives, life experiences, personalities and strong points.

weaver is exactly right. As a recovering alcoholic, I can attest to the powerful impact of seeing the truth about myself through the eyes of others. Seeing the digust and hearing myself described in realistic terms was the wake up call that propelled me into action. I will never in my life forget the look of sheer DISGUST and REVULSION on my H's face after my last drunk. It has kept me sober for 22 years.

Had my husband confronted me with his view of me before this last incident, I may have been motivated before that. Many alcoholics in AA speak of the power of SEEING how disgusting they look to others and how it motivated them to stop drinking. This is WHY interventions work. When someone is being bad, a powerful motivator to stop is a glimpse of oneself through the eyes of others. It can be a shocking wake up call. To protect someone from that glimpse only serves to ENABLE the addict and deny them of some very powerful medicine.

Adultery is handled a little differently in that MB principles dictate that this criticism does not come from the spouse, because of the impact on the marriage, but there is no reason to use weasel words and dishonest language in a forum setting. That does a disservice to any sincere WS. We can't help them get honest, if we ARE NOT.

Another very important goal post in my own recovery correlates to adulterers. In the early, foggier days of my recovery I used to get angry inside when folks spoke badly of drunks. One day an employee of mine began disparaging drunks to me, [she didn't know i was one] saying they were all liars, conartists, selfish, irresponsible, etc. I felt my IRE rising when the LIGHT BULB went off: SHE WAS RIGHT. DUH! Everything she said was true, so how silly of me to get angry. I simply AGREED with her. It was a turning point in my recovery when I grew honest enough to be able to accept the truth about drunks. I began to relate more to the non-drunks than the drunks and as a result, stopped taking it personally when someone disparaged drunks.

The truth is not so threatening to someone who is sincerely committed to recovery because they are HONEST. The truth is only troublesome to those who are NOT HONEST. Therefore, the worst thing that one can do is ENABLE that dishonesty with doublespeak and weasel words.