back to disagreeing... WS are not due respect IMO.... respect is earned and throwing your spouse, children and others under the bus so that one can go rut like pigs for a time does not earn any respect...only scorn. Now, FWS are due all the respect in the world...they have learned from their mistakes and have earned their respect.

Whew... and I thought hel! was going to freeze over for a while!

This begets some questions in my mind:

Are you saying that the pain/shame/humiliation of your adultery was not enough of a motivating factor to end the affair?

Are you saying you needed to feel good about yourself in order to stop doing what was bad for you?

What about "hitting rock bottom"? Do you think that is motivating?

Are you saying that you were so damaged by your affair that you did/could not see the value of the man you were married to? Or, are you saying your husband was so lousy before Plan A there was no way you would stay married to him?

If that were true, why did you not divorce him when you were so "in love" with OM?





[b]Are you suggesting that the mixed-up adulterous spouse is fixed to judge the superficiality vs authenticity of their betrayed spouse's personal improvements?

However, the betrayed spouse is not allowed to comment on the OP's character?

This makes me smile as I just finished reading the link to the venomous comments made by BobPure's Squid .... she detested his Plan A efforts and ridiculed him for his trouble as she "stood by her man" the OP.... a lying piece of crap!

I actually think that, in a weird sort of way, that the WS that come here probably LIKE that the OP is getting bashed, and not THEM. It takes a lot of responsibility away from the wayward one who is actually here, allowing them to blame the OP.
Speaking for myself, when I first came here, I was sort of upset when the OM got bashed, HOWEVER......I was also relieved. Focus was off of me and on him, made me look like(and feel like) a victim. SO....is bashing the OP REALLY a good idea?

Eventually I DID learn that I was as much a scumbag as he was,and that I was not a victim IN ANY WAY... but he should not have even been that much of an issue in the first place.

What really helped me get rid of that wayward mentality was absolutely NOT placing any blame, bashing or thinking harshly of OM. Because I was exactly the same as HE. Anytime I thought of him in a scumbag sort of way, i was indirectly blaming him. NOT GOOD.

No, it was realizing that those choices I made were HARMFUL to everyone concerned.

I WAS TO BLAME. ME AND ONLY ME.

NOW

SC,

I haven't posted on this thread but I will now. You are wrong about bashing the OP. We should not bash a WS who comes here truly wanting help, but the OP is fair game. Should we intentionally bash them? Maybe not. But, to expect someone to not lash out in anger out a person who intruded on another person's marriage is unrealistic.

A WS truly wanting help here may not want to hear the truth about the OP but if they truly are here seeking help instead of trying to justify, explain their side, etc then this will not frighten them off. If they have ulterior motives then protecting the OP is just more Wayward behavior in my opinion.

For instance, let's say a drug addict came here and people started saying;

"that crack is killing you" "crack is a terrible, sh**ty, crappy drug" "I wish that crack would die, disappear, fall off the face of the earth" "Crack sux"

These would all be comments to a drug addict that they would not want to hear because it is attacking their source of "happiness", their "fantasy", their "escape". They may be defensive towards their crack. BUT, a person truly wanting to get off the crack while not liking what they hear about their beloved crack still will stay, learn, interact, grow BECAUSE they truly want help. Those that want to defend their crack, their position, their choice to continue smoking crack will not get it, whether you bash crack or not. They are looking for justification not help.

Now go above and replace crack with OP. No difference, same thing, imo.

So to bash the OP is normal, expected, almost impossible for humans who see people being wronged (the BS) not to do. The monkey is on the WS back to stop defending the "crack or OP" and see them for what they are/were, a destructor, a user, a manipulator, a bad choice, a losing proposition, a substitute for reality, a terrible thing, contemptable, abhorent, a liar, a pretender, etc.

Substitute common slang for what I wrote above and you get "bashing the OP".

Pep.... standing and cheering! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I like that analogy, but is the "crack" to blame, or the person taking it?

The person taking it is too blame or at least equally to blame but the crack needs to be destroyed, made null and void, seen for what it truly is not what it pretends to be.

This is the analogy of the OP. The WS is more responsible than the OP in my mind when it comes to having the affair. BUT the OP needs to be shown for who she or he truly is, a lying, cheating, manipulating, using, immoral, unprincipled, undisciplined, seedy, slimey, etc person they are, not the knight in shining armor or the princess in the castle that the WS believes them to be.

Actually, in my Wayward mind, I saw MYSELF as the princess in the castle, that was the attraction of the affair to me, not that I saw HIM as anything awesome.

NOW, many WS's have romanticized and idealized their affairs and their affair partners. This seems to be the rule rather than the exception. In fact, the subject of this thread had idealized her OP as an "honorable" man [her H's brother, btw] when he is nothing more than CAD.

a princess? lol

I wasn't going to comment on this, but what the heck -

This board is predominently "BS" because most WS aren't interested in marriage building. Once a marriage is fixed or severed, most leave altogether. So the majority here are BS's in the act of trying to save their marriages.

As far as those who stick around just to help, I don't see too much difference in what their former labels were, either BS or WS.

There are many, as a matter of fact, who were neither - Ark, JL, SS that I can think of off the top of my head.

Anyone remember the movie "Bridges of Madison County" with Meryl Streep? That must have been written by a MAJOR LEAGUE FOGGED OUT WS. Talk about romanticizing something that is about as romantic as 2 pigs getting it on in the pig pen. lol

[color:"red"]NOW [/color]



I like where you are going with this...

there is usually a step process that I have observed...

1. the WS first places "blame" on their betrayed spouse
AKA ~~~> "My EN's were not being met for 20 years" <~~~ laughable really <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I always get a kick out of someone claiming a "virtuous martyrdom" PROUDLY declairing how many looooooooong years they tolerated a bad situation without making a change themselves !!! LOL

2. then, for a brief time, the WS may place "blame" on the evil OP (sometimes the BS places this on a silver platter for their WS ... saying the OP was a "predator")
I have noticed that some betrayed men are RIPE to believe that the evil OM cast some sort of a spell on their sweet wife ....
some betrayed wives do this too, but not as often as BHs

3. personal responsibility is accepted and declared (like you said)

dropping "blame" altogether

this only comes when someone is willing to grab ahold of their own power and let go of the false victimhood status

the ones who do this quicker are usually the more spiritually inclined WSs

My opinion, anyways

Mel, you're right...and I know..."princess"...puke.

I think when people are "in love", it is really with themselves. They just don't know it.

NOW .... you are just cracking me up today

princess indeed !!!

LOL

thanks for sharing that goodie

I can see you waiting to be rescued ... Fiona!

MEL

my WH (before D-day) bought me that book for our anniversary .... guess who suggested/recommended it?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Pep,

For me, that is pretty darn accurate!

Mel,
I read that not too long after my affair....I think I was trying to make myself feel better, but it actually had the opposite affect. Thank God. It was just stupid.

I think it is CUTE!! You can be a princess here, NOW! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep,

That pea under my mattress.....put my back out for WEEKS!

It's true. Being in love is always about projection. We bring everything that is loving/attractive/desirable with us to the "in love" party, and project it onto the other person.

All love originates from within, and then is projected outward.

If we are smart enough to project it onto our spouse...

POW! fireworks! And I read a post by Ark yesterday where she speaks of this, but in different words.

Ark said something interesting???

how unusual

(bashing thread, lest we forgeteth) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />