Only if you'll be my "OPea"!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Pep...I see your point. This kinda begets another question in my mind...

What do you see as the reason why MB recommends that the BS do plan A in the first place? How did/do the Harley's feel that plan A affects the changes in the WS needed to convince them to end the affair and rebuild their marriage? What's their reasoning behind having the BS meet the WS's ENs?

I'm guessing, but from my perspective what I tried to do during my 'psuedo plan A' (I didn't learn about MB until AFTER we began recovering), my goal was to fight to end the affair, and to show my wife that I still loved her and that our marriage stood a chance of recovering...that 'WE' were still worth fighting for. She had to have motivation not only to end the affair...she had to have the 'carrot' to convince her that the marriage was still worth recovering. It sounds to me like that was what SC was alluding too as well...but I could be wrong.

Very similar 2 my own si2ation: My W told me, around the time the A started in 1991, that her female coworker friend had recommended "An Unbearable Lightness of Being" 2 her. Sounds like an uplifting movie, doesn't it? It's not. Though it sure tries 2 be. H has multiple As, BW tries 2 have a revenge A, they go through rough times, and end up reconciling (and being best friends of the OW, 2), just before being killed in car accident.

I saw the movie maybe 6 months or so after my W told me about her friend recommending it 2 her. She, allegedly, hadn't seen it yet.


About 3 months after d-day, I asked her if it was RM who'd recommended that movie 2 her, and she acknowledged that it was. What I can't recall is whether it was before or after the A had started. Because it seems like the kind of thing an OP would use 2 help convince the future WS that having an A would be perfectly fine.


But I try not 2 dwell on thoughts like that anymore. I don't know why I posted this.

-ol' 2long

Owl,

The way I see it, affair partners are "bashing" their BS's....do you know of any that would tell each other, "oh your spouse isn't all THAT bad"???? In the meantime, the OP is causing the WS to fall in love with THEMSELVES by meeting EN's, which effectively convinces them they are WORTHY of love and that they are "in love" with the OP. So, in plan A, the BS has to do what the OP has been doing, to be the reason the WS loves themselves.

NOW

Owl... Plan A is used during the affair to make the spouse a viable option for the WS to consider (as we know)

I am wondering if SC thinks that plan A is part of marriage re-building strategy

it's not!

unless it is very very very very brief

SC said her BH began Plan A ~after~ her A was ended

Plan A is too sacrificial and lopsided to sustain very long

PLUS ... it is rewarding bad behavior if it goes on too long and builds RESENTMENT in the BS

In my case, RH did a plan A after the affair ended. At that time, I wasn't convinced fully in my mind that I WANTED to stay, even though I CHOSE to stay.

Plan A and meeting EN's, are not the same?

Truth!
Honestly,
I am extremely PROUD of the Real Ones that are here;
those that have risen to the challenge of changing, in most every way necessary! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately,
there are less of those out there then most people are willing to admit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

To be fair,
It takes much more then just not sleeping around, coming/staying home, not actively lying each day and saying your sorry to EARN the distinction of being a former.

Ideally,
It also takes Accepting and Owning full/total responsibility for ones actions and choices,
as well as changing the WS mindset/mentality (and those character traits associated with it, including but not limited to selfishness, blame and entitlement).

Yes, yes ......there are MANY that claim to have taken the steps necessary ......
However,
by the advice which is given out (which is sometimes very subtle, mind you) it makes ya wonder.
Cause, from the truth of his heart so a man speaks.

Indeed,
It is not hard to tell the reformed wayward's, from those still actively seeking.
However,
it can be difficult to identify those that are merely Half Stepping it.

(By the way, this is a general across the entire board statement ....not limited to this board OR thread ...more so an observation from years of reading).
The direction of the thread just made it more relevent to bring up.
Notice that no names were mentioned ......so if this is not you .......Relax.

However,
if it is You (or strikes a nerve in you).......then Perhaps GET to actually getting to be a REAL Fws .......or at the least Admit to where your opinions are coming from.

Actually under No Illusion that anyone would fess up ......but just cause you cloak some of that WS mindset inside a bunch of MBing principles .....well, that just makes it all the more insidious.

The attacking trolls are easy to refute .....the sympathizers (who many times give out Good Advice in certain areas) are much harder to identify and deal with.
Sadly,
many times they are not Ever identified and are actually praised as valued posters (seen it MORE then once) .......scary stuff...at least to me.

not the same

there is overlap because ENs are met during Plan A

Plan A requires the betrayed spouse to put duct tape over their Taker's mouth as the BS tolerates his/her own ENs to remain UNmet

RECOVERY and RECONCILIATION are not what happends during plan A

I think it was BR or committed who said that Plan A returns the BS to a state of self-respect. Perhaps this is a benefit and not the goal.

Big THWACK to me for trying to think too deep on a Thursday, and a really big thwack to 2long for this -



I'm going to post an email I got this morning regarding a great book to read this summer, just to muddle up the thread a bit and because I'm too lazy to look for that summer reading thread -

Oh never mind, I'll start a new thread.

Pep-

I completely agree that it's definitely a short term plan. But I think that it should be done through the end of the affair to the end of the withdrawl phase...that's what I did at least. It seems to me that the WS won't be able to consider the BS again until that timeframe.

Once the choice is made to work on the marriage...the permanent changes made in by the BS should of course remain in effect, but the expectation that meeting EN's is one-sided should vanish like the last slice of pie. Plan A should be how you get to that decision...or at least it was for me.

And of course plan A should NEVER equal plan doormat...the proper setting of boundaries is a part of plan A that I think (my opinion) is a part of what actually attracts the WS back.

I don't think that the pain/shame/humiliation ALONE is normally enough to cause a WS to end the affair. I think that they also need to see a clear path home...a clear path BACK to someone who's still showing love even after all of the betrayel. If they don't see that clear path OUT of the pain, they'll stay where they are. But they do have to feel both...that pain, and that love at the same time.

I don't think ANY WS really and truly allows themselves to see the value of the spouse that they're married to during the heighth of the affair, nor during the withdrawl after it. They deliberately blind themselves to that so that they can mentally justify their affair to themselves. It's only once those blinders start to come off at the end of the withdrawl that they can look back and see that value...that value that was there for them even when they were being so horrible to that very same person. THEN they see the value.

SC- I'm curious...how long did your H do this 'plan A' unknowingly?

In my case, it lasted about 2 months. Once NC was in place, and withdrawl was through, my wife and I were engaged in an outstanding MC routine...and that counselor made it clear to my wife that a marriage is a NOT one-sided effort.

[color:"red"]NOW [/color]


you & I share something here

[color:"red"]In my case, Mr Pep did a plan A after HIS affair ended. At that time, I wasn't convinced fully in my mind that I WANTED to stay, even though I CHOSE to stay.
[/color]

for real <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Owl

you are a better man than I

(snicker)

Yep, it goes both ways....and when I realized THAT (that he might want to leave), I did a Plan A.

It's really embarrassing to say this, but there was a short time when I didn't even see that HE (my DH) had a choice in all of this! I thought it was all about ME. DUH!!!!!!!!

I totally agree with this....well said!

LOL @ NOW

"duh" indeed !

How are things going now, NOW?

I wanted to add, too, that maybe OP-bashing is a "safer" way for the WS here to see themselves in the beginning. You get a glimpse of who you are as an adulterer without having to look yourself full in the face right away....I think that is how it worked for me.

I sure didn't like it....but I am glad that I learned how to be a "big girl"...I don't want people to feel like they have to tiptoe around me...it isn't fair to them.

good insights NOW

really !

I am NOT tiptoe-ing

Pep,

Things are going well...RH is so so busy these days. I have to watch out for the tendency to feel sorry for myself, ya know? When I see that starting to happen, I try to help him out more, try to ease the burden of his busyness....right now we have a calf we are bottle-feeding. There was a time when I would've resented having to do that. But I am loving it!

Thanks for asking! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

This is IT, NOW. This is the common denominator in WS's.

The BS needs to show the WS that it is not all about them and that they have a choice and they will execute it.

Some BS's like Mel and Pep, do it on DDAy. They say it loud and clear. No confusion there. And the WS's learns immediately that the BS will execute their choice to leave the marriage.

Some BS's need time to get to this place of realizing themselves that they do in fact have a choice.

Thanks for verbalizing that.

Weaver,

It is really a tough thing to admit that....but I'm finding it easier as time goes by! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So in the case of OP-bashing....it is most offensive when the WS is not OWNING what they and the OP have done.

Now I am right there with not liking foul language and stuff, but I OWE it to BS here (and my own) to say what they feel and not try to make them feel bad about it.

NOW