MFZ, you're getting some pointers here from some of the folks who have helped hundreds of betrayed spouses recover their marriages. Listen to them, pardner.

One of the best ways to combat what has happened your life is to learn all you can about it. Orchid gave you a great reading list and I urge you to buy those books and study them...don't just read them...study them well. If you have questions, ask them, okay?

Friend, recovering your marriage is not going to be an easy thing to do. They never are, but a long-term affair (LTA) is especially rough. Additionally, your spouse seems to have no particular embarrassment about you having discovered it. That may change as you begin to implement Plan A, which includes exposing the adultery to people who can influence her.

I always think of betrayed spouses who try to recover their marriages as some of the most strong-minded individuals in the world. They have to be, because going through this he11 is probably the toughest thing anyone will ever be called upon to endure. Are you ready for the fight, MFZ? It’s going to be a brawl. Are you prepared to get back to your feet after having been knocked flat? Are you ready for a long, enervating struggle, friend?

If you are, we’ll be here for you, okay?

When you’re ready, MFZ, tell us what your plan is.


Off Topic: My screen view on this thread, and this thread only, is corrupted. The text lines extend out forever to the right. Anyone know why that is and what's the fix?

Maybe Mr Wondering but your opinion is exactly the opposite of several others, not just star*fish, who are apparently experienced and they have suggested you just stay away from this thread. Seems easy enough.
I'll respond to others later but thanks for your inputs.

Star*fish is an excellent source of how to save your marriage. She knows her stuff. You can't go wrong by following her advice.

Have you tried spending time with your wife this weekend?

I'll post where I like, thank you very much. I'm just as entitled as you and shocked you would suggest otherwise. We are ALL guests here.

BTW, I didn't see anyone give the opposite opinion. I didn't see anyone suggest that you shouldn't call your first wife and get her help. I think it's a good plan. She's a BS and she knows you well. She'd have some good input and experience to offer you away from GQII. You paid her a lot of money so I'm sure she's doesn't have any hard feelings anymore...it's been 28 years after all.

Maybe I missed it and just a suggestion.

Mr. Wondering

From Justuss:

I AM helping.

and

Justuss specifically said we could suggest the poster go elsewhere.

The divorce/divorcing board is perfect for him

Dr. Harley advise us that AFFAIRS END.

On average it's 2 years...so admitedly, Zog's 28 year old affair is way out of the curve. But they nearly ALL end.

He could get advice about finding an attorney and taking his wife to the cleaners. He gave his first wife EVERYTHING (how romantic...giving up everything for his assoulmate), so this time....he should TAKE everything he can get his hands on.

If it doesn't happen NOW...it will later, anyway so the advice will be useful, someday.

Besides, how's Zog gonna manage recovery. The 6 - 8 month mark when the adreneline wears off. Can you say "revenge affair". He'll likely jump on the first woman that smiles at him. Why not...he's lived a fantasy for 28 years...and his crackhouse is out of crack. Maybe they've got some next door. I just HOPE she isn't married.

Mr. Wondering

From Justuss:


Ok, you’ve made your suggestion, but I don’t see why you and like-minded others keeping on telling Zog to leave GQII if not to banish him from this forum. I do not see why you and others insist on staying on this thread if you just want to make mere “suggestions.” You gave your advice to Zog in your effort to “help” him, he declined, and now it may just be time to SKIP his post, as Justuss said.

Lastly, I am not sure what part of “condemnation is not necessary”, is not clear.

UVA

I am giving advice and not condeming him. Do you deny the statistics that Dr. Harley clearly states...nearly all affair marriages end in divorce? I am preparing him for the inevitable.

In fact, I'd advise Zog to strategize his financial situation. Transfer assets to cash. Spend some of their savings NOW, before the inevitable divorce, on counseling for his children so they don't repeat their parents illicit behavior and lifestyle. Maybe he could head over to the "infidelity and it's effects on children" Board and see exactly what he's done, or should I say still doing to his kids.

Another SUGGESTION, maybe you should head over to the "Woman's Bible Study" Board. They could use you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mr. Wondering

I have been polite in the face of some quite aggressive postings. Mr W, you tell me there is zero chance of saving my marriage and direct me to the Divorce forum. You express your "help" in a manner that looks like pure viciousness - I will not respond to you again.
To others, I am considering your inputs but am rather drained so will reply later. I will be telling my children as soon as I can.

Hang in there, MFZ. This too shall pass.

Strange...I thought I was being polite too.

Stating facts, stating truths, alone, ain't vicious.

You do, IMO, have zero chance of saving your adulterous marriage and you can Plan A and Plan B till you are blue in the face and in the end...that won't save your marriage. It's just as doomed now as it was 28 years ago.

Just an opinion.

Before you tell your children...I still strongly advise you spend some time reading the article and then posting on the "Infidelity and It's Effects on Children" Board. At the very least...be certain not to screw up your kids any further.

Mr. Wondering

mr. wondering, maybe you need to go back and re-read what justuss posted. we are all GUESTS here of mr. harleys and she said basically if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all. she also said if the thread bothers you DON'T READ IT OR POST ON IT. you are completely going against what a moderator has asked.

i am a betrayed spouse, betrayed more times by my ex than i can count. my father married his affair partner and my sister is an oc. and yet, imagine this, i am NOT offended by zog being here trying to recover his marriage. zog knows he made a terrible mistake 30 years ago. he is aware of this! thank god he did not have children in his first marriage who had to be damaged by what he did. but it is done and over with. happend freakin 30 years ago! he is trying to right the wrong that he did by ending the cycle of infidelity and by MAKING THIS MARRIAGE WORK. maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. but if dr harley would be willing to work with zog and he has no issue with him being here and if we all respect harley and his views so much than i think zog should stay right here.

IF HE BOTHERS YOU AND HIS POSTS BOTHER YOU AND HIS MARRIAGE BOTHERS YOU THAN DON'T READ IT!! how many times does that have to be said? Justuss said not to be nasty to others on the board. well, your last few posts are pretty nasty.

i am very surprised at you mr. wondering, i usually find your posts to be so uplifting and helpful. this is not helpful at all.

mlhb

mlhb, does this not also apply to you? I don't think what you said to MrW was very "nice" and would suggest that you take your OWN advice to "not read it" if it bothers you. MrW has as much right to express his opinion as you do. If you don't like it, then don't read it.

trust me, after what i have been reading by him i WON'T be reading any more of his posts on this particular thread. i'll simply address zog.

mlhb

You got me here.:D

I am not denying Harley’s statistics nor am I supporting AMs in their usual manifestation. But as a lawyer, you know that even though rules are rules, the outcome of case may very well depend on the particular facts of the case. That is to say, a court or a legislature (or a relevant administrative body) may make exceptions to a law and distinguish a particular fact pattern or policy consideration from the way in which the law is usually applied. I do not think that Zog’s situation is the usual AM and the particular facts of his sitch, IMO, warrant a different approach.

I will not rehash my argument on this point here. You can see my earlier posts on this thread if you want to pursue this further. It seems to me that the main issue here is really whether reasonable minds can disagree on whether someone in Zog’s situation should get help here on MB, GQII, or whatever forum you like. I do think reasonable minds can disagree here because the underlying issue is a close call. I THINK and BELIEVE that Zog can redeem himself and should try to save his marriage even though the way the M started is abominable to ALL of us. But I do not KNOW this to be true. That is, I do see how one can see this issue differently. I do see good arguments for the other side. I just, for now anyways, lean towards my current position.

The fact that many respected members of MB disagree on this issue just shows that this is not a clear cut issue. This is my whole point. If this is not such a clear cut issue—that is, where each side could be wrong (not at the same time, of course)—I am not sure why one group would want to impose their version of the truth on everyone else who may see it otherwise. Why do you want to insist that Zog post elsewhere, where you position is clearly not embraced by all and clearly not necessarily true?

(Please do not confuse this with moral relativism; I know you are smart enough not to make such a baseless inference from the above.)

Side note: It’s funny that you would give Zog some quick advice but seem to be against getting the same advice in a more protracted fashion here on GQII. This is really inconsistent.

The point Justuss is making, which I wholeheartedly agree with, is that if you don’t want to help people like Zog, don’t. But it is not up to you dictate which forum he can get help from. I think that TA has it right in BP’s thread. We should not try to impose our views on others or dictate where people can get help for various issues, especially, I might add, where the issues are close ones.

Respectfully,

UVA

Mr. W,

You know that I like you. Please do not take this to a needless level of acrimony towards Zog. You are a better person than this.

Your points have been made and I am sure they have been heard.

MFZ,

I am proud of your decision to tell your children.

Very clearly

I am not dictating

never have

I have merely suggested

Mrs. W was, from the get go, merely suggesting.

I like freedom of speech

I think you and mlbh have both misinterpreted Justuss.

Zog is not banished from GQII (which I never asked for him to be)
re
I am not banished from GQII.

You seem to infer that I'm condemning Zog. Even if that were the case, which it's not, "Condemnation is not necessary" is a whole lot different from "condemnation will not be allowed or tolerated".

No worries...I forgive you both.

Mr. Wondering

Oh come on people. Let's keep this simple....not emotional.
Zog (sorry for the previous mispost) is having a hard time. Compounded with previous A & WS issues will always make this harder.

So for those that can differentiate and can help.....go ahead. Those who can't don't.

Not belittling those that can't. Just need to recognize what is not in our abilities and move forward. There have been situations on MB that I know I am not good at posting on and some a have major disagreements....so for those, I generally don't post.

The point is that our POV is a right...freedom of speech, etc.... ok but just because it is a right doesn't always make it right for specific situations. It is ok NOT to post. We don't always HAVE to be heard.

'nuff said. Gonna go shopping to get my aunty her new phone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.

When does suggestion becomes an attempt to control or banish, as in this case? If you merely intended to give "suggestions", why not stop after it has been rebuffed several times?