MFZ

I'd like to ask you a question , please.

If you knew that a BS like MIKE ( click here) was reading your thread today and that his W marrying her OM was what he feared most in his life, would you still post here or go somewhere less often frequented by such folks ?

I have asked all kind of people but actually folks openly in A-marriages have yet to respond so I thought I'd try here.

I do not intend to annoy or cause trouble. I am interested in your opinion.

Thanks in advance

Hey, Zog, send me an email at Longhorn__07@hotmail.com, would you please? Just click on that email address and it'll bring up an email form in your usual email client. You may need to change the originating address to an anonymous one. Alternately, if you click on my screen name anywhere in this or any other thread, you'll see my profile and can click on my email addy there.

ttyl

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You see Longhorn...this is where the advice gets all upside down in the situations of Adulterous Marriages.

Zog CAN'T make himself better than OM. They are merely both dogs of a different color. Best he can do is compete with OM to the bottom.

Further, and I am hesitant to mention this because it just may work, but being Mr. Nice Guy won't pull a formerly successfull WW from the fog and save an adulterous marriage.

You see...normally, we tell BS's to try to attract back their wife being the person they were when they starting dating their WW. Shouldn't the Save an Adulterous Marriage handbook say be a BIGGER dog than OM. If you seriously wanted to help Zog save his marriage shouldn't he try to attract her back by trying to get her to have an affair on her new boyfriend with him. Do what he did when he met her. Sneak around with her. Look her deep in the eyes and try to connect with her soul. Lie to her. Get her talking about OM and their relationship. Point out the flaws and how Zog would never do that to her. Fight for her with PASSION. Create a EXTREME EMOTIONAL ENVIRONMENT within which to demonstrate his undying love and resolve to fight for her. Excitement...not trite little wimpy picnics are what are going to win the day.

You see...from WW's point of view...THAT'S WHAT'S ATTRACTIVE. She wants a fantasy and Zog has to sell that his RENEWED fantasy is more romantic and passionate than OM's new fantasy. Zog has to out-affair the new guy.

A good salesmen needs to know his customer. Zog's WW ain't buying the old nice dog she's got at home unless that new dog demonstrates some new tricks to excite her and make her FEEL happy. Or to use another analogy, she's tasted cocaine and now the bag of marijuana she's got at home just ain't gonna cut it. Zog needs some crackrock to get her back home.

Finally, when you expose to these people (associations, churchs, etc) they should be fully aware that your marriage is an adulterous marriage otherwise you'll be, once again, taking advantage of others to suit your own purpose when they otherwise may be strongly opposed to, in any way, assist in the recovery of an adulterous marriage.

Constructively,

Mr. Wondering

That's amusing, MrW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What part made you laugh LH ? Its an exact application of Harley marrigebuilding into zogs situation from a man ON FIRE with the Harley MB weekend he just attended. Whats funny ?

Seems to if you think it is funny or wrong you either disbelieve Harley's assertion that affairs are fantasy attraction not fact, or you disbelieve Harley's marrigebuilding methods.

oh I forgot - I'm shunned.

Actually, I agree MFZ should be completely honest with those he exposes to. To omit it (aka a lie) would be manipulative.

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Thanks guys. Your input is welcome. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have a question: what if Mike & Joan's (or another's) marriage was an AM (I don't know the details but it's not beyond the realms) & the denial of assistance to either resulted in such a tragic outcome. What then??

This is a moral minefield. There is no panacea.

Personally, it's distilled down to what's right & wrong for me, & me alone. MFZ's M is an AM, not something that I'm predisposed to supporting but here I am; MFZ has (to my satisfaction) demonstrated ownership of his wrong-doings & attempted restitution. The first M was very short & no kids, the AM is (relatively) very long & has 2 kids. I feel that if MFZ chooses to try & save his 28 yr M then he should be given the opportunity, & if I want to help then so should I.

With the deepest respect & regards to all.

b.p.m.

ok, darnit, i was not going to post here any more but just want to say to mr. wondering: the post you posted above, i do, for the most part agree with. i think that post was actually constructive. i do think zog'a ww might not be "wooed" by a husband who now actually wants an honest marriage and one that is real with real problems and issues,etc. this, at this stage, may be boring to her, so yes, her new affair partner probably does appear much more exciting.

and, i do agree that when the exposure happens and as zog asks for help, he should say this is a marriage born of an affair. i do think people need to know that to know where he is coming from.

i do believe zog wants to right a wrong. his first marriage was very brief, and as stated before, there were no children thank god. had he or she had marriage builders 30 years ago maybe he wouldn't even be here now. i do feel he is remorseful for his actions and wants to end the cycle. i don't have issue with this. i do hope, again, that he has gone to his first wife at some point and asked for forgiveness and that he has asked god for it as well. if so, than i think the next step is to make this marriage work and fight for it. i am quite sure his first wife does not want to reconcile, that is a done deal.

however, if his ww is addicted to that excitement of another man feeling and zog is now in the mode of fighting for a marriage THE RIGHT WAY, than, yes, she may not ever be drawn to that. if this marriage does not work out i am sure zog will have learned a very hard lesson, albeit 28 years later... affair marriages don't work and if they will do it with you, they will do it to you. i am a FIRM believer in that.

and bob, i know you asked zog's opinion, but, i will chime in anyway... i would simply tell mike if reading this thread bothered him, than don't read it.

ok, bowing back out now...
for however long that will be....

mlhb

mlhb,

Mike committed suicide.

I must say it astonishes me that such platitudes as "don't read it if it offends you" TOTALLY miss the point that the desperate newbies here can't possible know it will offend them TILL they read it by which time the damage is done. DUH.

The length of a his first marriage nor the absence or presence of children does not negate that this is an AFFAIR MARRIAGE.

Just where is the X number of AM years that make betrayal and marriage to an affair partner deemed acceptable. Is it at the 5 year mark? 10 year mark? 15 year or greater mark?

And what x number of years make his first marriage less a casualty? 2 years? 3 years? 4 or greater?

The above will be such a comfort for the MB newbies to know who are in their 2-5 year mark of marriage that have no children.

You be sure and post that to them when you're supporting both MFZ and their situation.

I have asked that exact question Jo - haven't received an answer though.

Some have said the production of children is all that is required which is a great comfort to people trying to save their legitimate marriage when the affair has produced an OC.

Well, see "Mike" committed suicide without ever having read any such thread. It's unfortunate no one in the town where Mike lived referred him to MB, isn't it? He might have read a thread that might have upset him but someone might have been able to talk him through the lowest point in his life, might have!

The actual importance of that story is to motivate betrayed spouses to toughen themselves, gird up their loins as it were, for the fight to recover their marriage, as is clearly indicated by subsequent comments on that thread.

Personally, if a man in that condition had been even the slightest of my acquaintances, I would have worked night and day to help him get on an even keel...I would never have turned him away...but that's just me.

i never said it was not an affair marriage. in fact, if you read my post, i state that yes it is.

whether he was married one year or 10 or 20 does make the damage any less. i never said it did. that is why i have told zog that he must, if he has not already, ask his first wife for forgiveness and admit his wrongs.

this could just go round and round and round.
everyone on each side thinks they are right for their own reasons.

so, i am going to take my own advice now, and not read anymore of this thread because i find it to be extremely frustrating. i can understand all sides. as i stated in an earlier post, my fathers current marriage is an affair marriage and from that i have a sister.they have been married 20 years now. my own ex was a serial cheater.
i get those who want to lynch zog and i get those who want to help. so, for my own sanity, i am just not going to read on this thread anymore.

i respect all of you here and have given and received advice from many of you over the past 2 years.

i want to keep feeling that way.
so i'm just "not going to read it"

mlhb

When you do the math, its somewhat possible MFZ's betrayed wife could have posted here desperate for help during Zog's affair with OW now wife. Much like many a BS MB member here.

MB was established in 1976, and Zogs affair was 30 yrs ago.

Something to think about.

Good job, Zog. That is the kind of thing that appeals to most women - it doesn't always have to be something expensive or exciting. Women like that their man is thinking about them and trying to make things special.

It also gives you things in common to talk about and to look forward to. I know I had a hard time when our kids moved out of the house. I had to suddenly refocus from being a mom and caretaker to being more of a friend. The transition can be very difficult.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't know what she'd have used to connect. The IBM PC didn't get launched until 1981, for instance, and while there were a number of networks available in 1976, chiefly ARPANET, USENET, MILNET, and CSNET, none of these were available to the general public.

Folks,

This site didn't exist back then. I believe it started about 1998. I know when K was counseling with Steve Harley it was not here, and K was still actively trying to recover his marriage, which he did, when I came here in 1999.

As for helping a marriage started by an affair, it seems to me to be something of a conundrum. I am not sure which way to go. But they have been together 28 years and have children, sooooo I will offer advice...if asked.

God Bless,

JL