Thanks B/LH, I'll look into these devices. Radio Shack used to be over here but may have pulled out. We do have similar stores though (Maplins).
My wife hasn't worked since we married and has developed a huge range of activities to fill her time. She is out of the house a lot for extended periods. This is really going to make the "signals" hard to detect. It is possible to get the phone company to track phone locations and report to a PC but the tracking is reported to the phone - I think it's meant for worried parents to monitor their kids not for invading the privacy of adults.
OM has an "affair phone" (which I discovered from WW's call history) and have now told OMW about. She can easily get one too. I will check whether she is still blanking all records but she can also delete individual records unfortunately.

Did Jilly and Zog not feel the exact same way when they discovered that the person that they thought they could trust betrayed THEM in the same fashion you (and I) were betrayed?

What makes their pain at the subsequent loss of their relationship any less real than your own...or mine? Its ironic, I'll definitely grant that...even karmic to a degree. But it still doesn't negate that what they're feeling is every bit as real as what you and I went through. Should they have expected that this was possible, even likely given the start of their own relationship? OF COURSE...but that still does nothing to negate the fact that it DID happen, or that they're still feeling that same sting of betrayal.

If their presence causes you pain...simply don't go to their threads. Don't open a post by that person. There are a number of threads I avoid for similar reasons...

Owl you want to know what makes their pain a little different from others on this site, they cheated on their spouses or parnters, together !!! Why in the heck should he be surprised that she is a ws spouse again yeah many yrs later but he knew this was in her, the other posters who post here, trusted their spouses, because there was not any red flags waving in the wind, so to speak,
you ask should they suspected it I would say yes, if you buy brown cow expecting chocolate milk............

At least the dress shows a new, more imaginative me but I will make it very clear that I don't mind if she changes it. I rather agree with you about elaborate snooping BPM, I'm not sure I can face it but I'll think about it. The simple stuff I will do.

Zog:

How did the conversation with your Kids go?

LG

MFZ
"pub walk" (pub drink - walk - pub lunch - walk - pub coffee) in a lovely part of the English countryside

Which lovely part ? Don't get many Brits on here. I'm from the Black country.

Anyone know the time difference between GB and say...Central Time zone in the U.S.?

7 or 8 hours

Assuming that is where the troll, IMO, really lives.

6

Thank you BB. I finally located an annotation in Win2K that showed me the 6 hour difference, but I don't trust Super Bill's little programs. Nice to have the confirmation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi LG:- I have already been in contact with OMW and the other day I let her know that her husband has an affair phone and gave her the number.
I told WW I was going to expose the A to them (we had agreed to discuss it first, before I found my way to MB and I don’t like breaking promises – not now). I have never, ever seen her so distraught and she has agreed NC (though not done a letter yet) and to work on doing things together. So the prospect alone may have done the trick – I’m not taking that for granted of course. I’m worried that exposing further at this stage would look to her like spite and I don’t see what benefit it would bring at present since we are already negotiating our way ahead. Of course I will tell them if it turns out we’re not on the road to recovery. But my children are adult and not living with us so are not being directly affected by what is happening now; in fact if they have noticed anything at all it will be me Plan A-ing.

Interestingly Man of Fog has indicated several times on this thread that his wife has said "he is from the planet Zog". Might have been a unconcious slipup to draw attention to ManFromZog as a clue to his trollness or an effort to explain away the obvious inference that can be drawn from his very name...now, that he's stirred up so much controversy. He was anticipating the inference and overexplaining it away.

To bad Longhorn's and ManFromFog are ignoring me, they could attempt to clear up this theory. Perhaps the moderators could do a simple check to see if this guy/girl is even actually posting from the UK.

Mr. Wondering

On the other hand,

The Planet Zog could be considered an apt description of a 28 year affair marriage.

Mr. W

Or all this "Wondering" could just drive you nutty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Good news, Zog. That she's reacting with horror to having her affair exposed further is a reaction I think is a positive step. Many WS's couldn't care less. Now you need to work on ensuring NC is actually in place. If she contacts him even once, the clock is set back to zero on the recovery.

I think for the present you might well hold off on further exposure. Its purpose, after all, is to end the adultery and if the small exposure you've done has worked, that's all that needs to be done.

However, be aware WS's sometimes promise more than they're actually willing to deliver. When the process is a little further on, we call it "false recovery." Just be aware of that, okay? Have a plan in the back of your mind to do a full exposure if it ever becomes necessary.

Regarding your children...I would suggest that some day, you and your wife sit down together, as a couple, and talk to your children about this. Unfortunately, someone may have observed something...OMW might divorce her husband and spread this far and wide...etc., etc. You can remove the hurt they’ll feel if you, as a couple, go to them first.

BTW, if you don't plan to expose to them right now because your wife has expressed a desire to work on the marriage, be aware you'll need to if she falls off the wagon, as we colonials say. Enough said.

Okay, you’re nowhere near the end of Plan A, but you might be at the end of the beginning of Plan A. (Thought I’d throw a little Winston Churchill in there.) Exposure is the first step. Now, pretend you haven’t told anyone here about Plan A. Tell us what you’re doing in your Plan A. Lay it out for us. Tell us how you and your WW are communicating, what you’re doing for yourself to make yourself into a more attractive spouse to her, etc., etc. Setting it down in print will help you organize your thoughts, and we can toss suggestions your way.

This is by way of suggesting you are at a point where you need to start planning your steps for the next few months, at least. For one thing, Plan A doesn't go on indefinitely. Dr. Harley recommends limits as you can read in SAA. One thing to start considering is marital counseling (MC).

I think it's very difficult to completely recover from something like this without a forum an MC can provide -- a safe, non-judgmental place where everything can be aired without fear of attribution. Start thinking about it, okay. WW may not be ready for it yet, but it would be good to have your plan set up. Getting an appointment for telephone counseling with Steve Harley would be great, for instance. However, with a huge time difference, I frankly don't know how it would work. If you can't do it, find yourselves a good, experienced, pro-marriage counselor in the local area, okay.

Keep up the good work, Zog.

In case anyone missed this...and, to put my prior two posts into more full context on one thread...here is what I posted earlier on Longhorn's thread:


I would certainly tell her not to be "needy and clingy"...since Man of Fog indicated that's the reason they divorce 28 years ago.


The more I thought about this quote and the way Man of Fog laid out his entire thread initially, full of facts (especially STARTING out with the whole 1st marriage and affair part..go back and read it...it's ODD), then thereafter completely devoid of many facts or feelings at all, along with some other stuff, the MORE I tend to go with MDEC on this. Man of Zog is a troll!!!.

Think of it this way...the quote above, WHY is he discussing with MOM the reasons MOM's marriage is falling apart. Who does that??? Second, how many BS's don't fully sympathize with the other BS??

Maybe, just maybe, MOM's wife is needy and clingy cause her husband has been having an affair with your wife for MANY MANY years behind her back. Same thing with Man of Fog's former wife. He cake ate at home and dragged her through the coals for 8 months, supposedly, and 28 years later, he hasn't OWNED a thing. She's still was just too needy and clingy for him. Leaving her was for the best. No regrets whatsoever. If he's real...he's certainly not repentent. Foggy as ever.

Just my opinion, Carry on.

Mr. Wondering

Query: Can someone really be ignored by someone who isn't [likely]real anyway???

Another thing I needed to say: I appreciate very much Longhorn's concern about my pain...my back is feeling a lot better. A couple visits to the Chiropractor is all it took but last weekend was, as Longhorn perceived, pretty painful.

W

Just wanted to quote this for those who have you on ignore, Mr. W.

~ Marsh

Quoting for the same reason.

~ Marsh

I gave my XW my house (I paid for it from my money, saved before the marriage) in compensation, which helped her greatly when she immediately set up with another woman's husband - and they had kids !

I’m not sure why this ex from almost 30 years ago factors in this sitch. She certainly benefited financially and opened up shop elsewhere posthaste.

As far as troll accusations…real life can be quite a bit stranger than what is normally posted on these forums. I realize you don’t practice family law Mr. W but if you did, you would already know this. This is kind of funny but I used to wonder if you were a troll b/c a working attorney couldn’t possibly have the time to post as much as you do. Can you see how easy it is to make assumptions? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It used to be the norm on these forums to work at offering advice solidly based on what was learned on the main site and the books but there seems to be a vocal core group with a related but still separate agenda which is unfortunate. That agenda certainly seems appropriate for the Other Topics board or the Marriage Builder’s Website board where it would be less of a distraction from Marriage Building.

Zog….good step with the OMW exposure! Read as often/much as you can about Plan A to keep your spirits up and your motivation high. I have to second the recommendation to contact the Harley’s as the affair does fall into the long-term category (long distance or not) I think you would be comforted by speaking directly with them at the very least but either Jennifer or Steve are quite amazing, why not utilize everything at your disposal? I do wish you the best. KB