HWW, I have great hope for your M.

I read the article... sickening. Sickening, but nothing that hasn't graced these boards before. I hope it wasn't your W... it certianly doesn't sound or look like "soulmate true love" in that forum, does it?

It sounds to me like your W is what alcoholics call an adult child. It seems like she is repeating patterns from her childhood, and I wonder if she had more of a friend-like relationship with her abandoned mom growing up (similar to what she is now doing with your oldest daughter.)

OM is a loser and sounds a lot like my ex-OM, who also married a OW from his first M. I wonder if she has caller ID and isn't answering her phone because she doesn't recognize the number. Do you know where she lives? It is CRUCIAL that you speak with her.

I'm sorry your W seemed happy about filling and making you feel bad. That's typical, horrible WS behavior. Keep posting here... you're doing a great job and this is a wonderful, transforming place of love. I'm convinced I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the guidance of these boards.

KM

Katie Mae...

Good to see you around again. Hope things are well.

HWW,

That article could be anybody. The chance it's your wife is VERY slim. You see...all WW's pretty much read from the same script. The say the same exact things. It's all really predictable.

Further...what they say isn't necessarily the truth. It's their wayward fantasy and the rationalizations and justifications to support that fantasy.

Your wife is feeling contented today because she THINKS she did something to take her from ****** and UNHAPPINESS to FUN, LOVE, HAPPINESS. Problem is...whereever SHE goes...there SHE will be. UNHAPPINESS will follow her. Her "feelings" have nothing to do with YOU...it's ALL about her and her temporary/permanent problems.

This is why you are not to enable her. Your Plan A is to make you attractive and a viable alternative to OM. But you can't protect her from the consequences of her choices. Make leaving you and the family as uncomfortable and unhappy a proposition as can be. Don't hold her up as she heads for rock bottom all by herself.

I would like to know what the petition is asking for. Typically, waywards feel entitled to everything. They want as much of the marital money as possible, the kids, the house, everything. However, this is also going to be her lawyers tactic. He/she will file for everything hoping to negotiate down from there. Occassionally, the wayward doesn't want anything but to escape and they direct their lawyer to be fair...hoping for a quick settlement so they can then pursue their soulmate. This is a mistake by them. At that point YOU respond asking for EVERYTHING then you both have to negotiate from there. IF she wants a quick out you CAN take advantage of this but don't be afraid to hammer her hard for alimony, spousal support, full child custody, she gets supervised visitation and her clothes and personal property. ETC.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Again...protect you animinity here by being sure to log out and close down the computer regularly, clear the history and temp files. In discovery, your wife is going to start snooping around your stuff. Count on it. Further, you should be snagging or making a copy of all your marital financial records for safe keeping. She may have already done this.

That's exactly right! Exactly right! What's really troubling is my wife used to be able to talk to her mother non-stop. Now, she can no longer talk to her mother (or me) because of her intense resentments. The OM has so screwed up her head, it's amazing.

She probably does have caller ID. That's why I've been going to pay phones. I talked to my attorney yesterday about talking to the OM's wife. My attorney (and she has a master's in psych) is really against it. I really like my attorney, alot; so it's tough to superseed her advice.

KM, are you a former WS? Did I read that correctly? Wow, I'd love to hear more of your perspective.
HWW

Mr. W, I know you're right. I've got to let it go. Because my trust in my wife is broken, I don't know what to believe anymore. When she tells me facts about her affair, I wonder, 'Is this meant to keep me off-balance? Has this affair been going on since 1993?' I've been telling my psych what my wife has been telling me. My psych asked me, 'do you have any reason to believe your twins are not yours?' That was a devastating question that I hadn't even remotely considered. It still haunts me.


The petition was very general and did not ask for anything believe it or not. She's going through this whole exercise without any plan. It amazes me. On the one hand, she can't or won't talk to me, but on the other hand, she wants to graciously work with me on separating and ending our marriage. I think we will have to talk to a judge pretty quick because of the kids.

I am making sure I log off and delete my history.

I forget exactly what Mortarman's mantra was...perhaps somebody can come up with the exact words but it goes something like this:

I will not discuss with you divorce, separation or anything regarding the destruction of our family, I WILL speak to you about reconciliation as that is the one and only thing we, the family, are interested it.

I have directed my attorney to handle all matters pertaining to the divorce with little or no further direction from me. I want as little to do with our families destruction as possible. In the meanwhile, I will ask you ...wouldn't a reconciled marriage where you and I are completely in love with each other once again be the best outcome to this mess...it IS possible. Nearly 90% of marriages reconcile after infidelity. Affair marriage NEVER work out. I certainly am not head over heals in love with you today...but I remain by your side...willing to at least try for us and the kids.

Mr. Wondering

P.S. (I always think of something else...sorry)...Fighting for you children, since they are teenages and able to indicate to the court where THEY choose to go means you will have to fight like heck to make sure they choose you. You've already seen your wife playing the "friend" angle as she is thinking like a teenager. Talk to your kids. Make sure they know that having a parent is much better than having a friend. YOU will always be there for them. Even if you do end up splitting up...THEY will remain your #1 priority. It will be hard but together you all can do it. Further...perhaps you can let them in on your plan to a certain extent. Indicating that IF they want your family to survive this they need to trust you. They, just like you, are not responsible for protecting mom from the consequences of her choices. Your oldest may feel like going with her because she doesn't want to see the mom alone when the younger twins stay with you. The best plan for the family reuniting IS they all stay with you right now...they can change their mind later; but, ultimately picking you gives your family the best chance. It's still their choice...and you will love them regardless. (if you are a Godly man and family...you could get into the fight between Right and Wrong, Good and Evil...up to you). You've really got more leeway than those here with younger children as your kids will really decide, to a large extent, where they go.

This is exactly what I told my wife several weeks ago; exactly. She flew into a rage and took all my clothes out of the bedroom and dumped them in the attic. My poor daughter called me, because I ended the conversation with my wife and went to the grocery store. I had to go back to discover my wife in this rage. It got a bit ugly because I lost my cool a bit, but I was the only one who thought of my daughter. Major love buster moment.


I am trying to be the parent; that's all I can do. My 15 year old called me from school and asked me to call her in sick for her last hour. She wanted to go to the pool. I said 'no' because her grades have gone way down and the final hour class is an important class. Besides, I don't want to teach the kids that lying is ok. My wife would have called her in and gladly taken her. My wife is spending money on the kids.

From time to time, my 15 and 12 year old daughters come to me and tell me how much they appreciate my strength and maturity. That gives me hope.

My wife told me never to use 'destruction' or 'destructive behavior again'. Sorry, I'm going to keep using those phrases.

The wife went out and spent a bunch of money on flowers today. It's been something I've been asking to do together with me. I think she did it out of spite, because I had done almost all the laundry.

I'll have to make sure I compliment the garden later.

help, you did good here. additionally, be sure and use the word ADULTERY whenever you refer to her affair.

HWW:

It wasn't your W in the Article. If it was, she would have said YES! The person writing the article just asked around. They didn't ask a major Corporation for assistance. They might have interviewed your W for the POV of a Major Corp HR Dept. But if that was her, she would be gone by now.

The terms are the same, but the interview was much longer and they went for the juicy stuff. And Waywards use the same justifications.

Don't worry about it.

The twins are yours. Bet on it.

Your spouse isn't sneaky enough to have hid it for that long.

Repeat the Mortarman Mantra: I do Marriage, My Attorney does Divorce.

Will she dump your clothes again? Sure. Speak truth: WW Angry.

Standard.

Get ready, the fun begins....

LG

Here's a thought.... plan A your W but plan B the WS.

If she is doing things out of spite, she shouldn't get rewarded for it.

Example:

WS: I bought these plants because I am angry at you.

BS: Those plants are nice. Too bad they feel your anger. Hope they don't die.

*************

WS: I cleaned out the cupboard because I am mad at you.

BS: Well it is good the cupboards are clean but I hope nothing broke in the process. Anger often makes people do thigs they regret.

WS: Aren't you glad I cleaned the cupboards?

BS: I would like to be, your anger is stopping me from fully enjoying your cleaning efforts.

***********************

WS: I am mad at you so I went shopping and spend $500.00 on whatever.

BS: Hm.... well.... that's a crazy reason to go shopping. Now you have me doubting your sanity. (Then go and cancel those cards).

NOTE: These types of situations actually happened. In one case, the amount spent was waaay more than $500.00.... more like tens of thousands. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

L.

Quote: KM, are you a former WS? Did I read that correctly? Wow, I'd love to hear more of your perspective.
HWW

Yes. MB saved my M and my soul. I am eternally grateful for these boards. You first posted to me in a response on Chris' thread. I've been gone for a while, but some of the old timers remember me.

Like your W, I also use to talk to my mom all of the time. My H use to wonder, "why does she need to talk to her mom every day?" It's because I was an adult child, and she was an adult child. I have grown up quite a bit since I had my A.

I'm afraid to tell you that things will get worse before they get better. Your W is going to have to hit rock bottom before she is willing to make a change. Keep your boundaries firm in place, and protect yourself from fog babble. It really has nothing to do with you, and has no truth in it (although your W fully believes this is her truth at the moment.) Keep being a stand up guy for your kids, and remember that you are doing what your W's father NEVER DID for her mom, and deep down she knows it.

KM

Thanks. That helps me release it. You feel so alone on these things, and it's so, so easy for your mind to invent crap.
Who is Mortarman? Good stuff; is there more?

Katie_Mae, whew, it's painful to imagine worse things yet to come. That's a frightening statement! I wish I had a crystal ball.

Now that my wife has sued me for divorce, I wonder whether my boundaries mean anything any more. I am thinking that my boundaries are more example for my kids and her, then anything else now.

Katie Mae, do you have a post that tells your story in more detail?

Hey HWW,

I went back through my old threads and the earliest one has my H and I in recovery. If anyone knows how to retrieve old posts that are no longer visible, please let me know. It's unfortunate because I first came here as an active WW, so I think it would be helpful for people to see the possible trajectory a WW can take with the support of MB.

The truth is, my story really isn't different than most WS. In a nutshell, I turned away from my M in time of crisis. I didn't tell H how I was feeling, and I began a relationship with my "soulmate", a serial cheater. I was with OM on and off for three years. Before OM, H was the only man I was in love with and had SF with, so I really thought OM was "fate." OM was a serial cheater and had had numerous A before me (and after I spoke to his W, it turned out he was having another A the same time he was with me). OM had no intention of leaving his W to be with me, his "soulmate", so I kept trying to end the A but I was "in love" and highly addicted (I did everything but tell H and OMW, so I was a mess for a very long time. For all BSs out there, TELL OPs SPOUSE RIGHT AWAY IF THEY DON'T ALREADY KNOW, it's crucial to ending the A!)

During this time, I said horrible things to H, and was completely unavailable to him as a W for nearly three years. When I confessed my A, he said he wanted to work things out. He actually said he felt relieved, because for three years he thought he had done something wrong. I still feel sick when I think about this.

Today we are in recovery, thanks to MC and numerous Harley books. I went to IC, read many wonderful self-help books, and continue to self-help journal on a daily basis. I have set up boundaries for myself and my M, as has H.

Probably my most noteworthy post I could find that was still available is this one:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3073453
It's about the lowest point in my A. I hope other WWs lurking out there read it and take note.

Anyway, I didn't mean to threadjack, but I am here to help as I can. I've learned A LOT about myself and my former behaviors, so I know where your W is and what she's feeling. Don't fear the divorce papers... keep your boundaries firm!! She is absolutely crazy right now, and needs someone sane in her life. Don't let her walk all over you, but if you love your W please don't give up either. She will worship the ground you walk on someday.

KM

KatieMae, Thank you so much. First, did you look at the archive thread section? I saw a lot of old posts in the archive area.

Look here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB1

You aren't threadjacking by sharing this info with me. It helps.

Er, not to threadjack, but did anyone else note that Steve Harley's registraton date was December 31, 1969 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Larry

This is a very interesting post. My wife is in a strong emotional affair.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3099869

Hiker45 at the end of the post talks about the length of the EA in relation to the success rate of restoring the marriage. I wonder what length of time he has in mind?

Well, I bought 'Surviving An Affair' this morning. It's a bit depressing reading about emotional affairs. Dr. Harley has a scale and I'm definitely on the far right of his scale. Phew . . . what a road to travel.

You don't know for certain that it was a reciprocal emotional affair for that long. They COULD have had just a close friendly professional relationship for a number of years that only just recently went beyond that.

You and your wife have a history together that predates this relationship by many years. Don't sweat recovery just yet....bust up the affair, make the divorce process difficult (through your attorney...as you will be the family guy protecting the children and sitting back), and don't enable your wife's destruction of the family by helping her destroy it. Then lets see what happens.

Trying to pinpoint your situation exactly is impossible. You need to protect your lovebank and searching for answers and finding the worst case scenario's is causing you to lose hope. Losing hope only bleeds your lovebank faster. Protect it by keeping a positive attitude. YOU are the better man. YOU are her God-given husband. Being hopeless makes you act hopeless...acting hopeless, needy and desparate is NOT attractive. It's not the way you were when you two dated...was it??? Where's that cocky guy from way back when that landed the girl of his dreams??? That's the guy you should be...cause her affair IS NOT about you...you should remain the person you always were.

I know...easier said than done...but, at least, work towards becoming that guy again by taking care of yourself and working on the one thing you CAN control...YOU.

YOU will make it.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. W., Thanks. You're right about the hopeless feeling. My wife has been happier since she filed on me, which kind of sucks. Her cheerfulness was fueling my hopeless feelings. I was a bit blue last weekend after I was told by my attorney that she filed Thursday. Last night, my wife came to me to talk a couple of times.

I had a nice dinner prepared for the family, and I've been looking good having lost 30lbs, died my hair to lose some grey, and I've been keeping my tan up. It took me aback a bit when she came to me to engage in some pleasant conversation. Was she reveling in her legal action? It felt like it. I talked pleasantly with her, but I didn't let the conversation run too long. I found myself avoiding eye contact with her and being very careful.

A week or two ago, my wife accused me of stalking her; saying 'she felt something similar to sexual harrassment in the work place' at home with me. She even shared this with my 15 year old daughter; imagine! So last night, when she came to talk, I kind of backed up a bit. When I walked around the house, I avoided getting too close or blocking a door. At times, it felt undignified.

My thinking is to avoid love-busters at all costs, and let her pick the moments to fill her own love bank with me. I know conversation is a BIG need on her part, and lately, all our conversations have been love busters because of the resentments she bears against me. It's almost like she can't help but become enraged during seemingly benign conversations with me. Conversation with my wife further drains my bank.

I'm continuing to study 'Surviving an Affair'.

Mr. W. Thanks for all your support.

HWW