Hey HWW,

Is your W still at home, or is she in and out? Have you spoken to OMW? I'm glad you're reading SAA... it's very, very helpful.

What are you doing to take care of yourself right now? Being here is good... reading SAA is good... how are your kids doing?

KM

Hi KatieMae, I'm so glad you posted to my thread!

My wife travels two to three days a week. She has not moved out. My kids are distressed, but they claim they've 'come to grips' with what's going on. The evidence points otherwise. Unfortunately, I bear the brunt of their acting out and it's hard, very hard. My wife has tried to turn blame on me especially with my 15 year old daughter. My wife has made my 15 year old her best friend and tells her too much. My 15 year old started sucking her thumb again. She is seeing a psych. My wife still thinks everyone is fine and will get through this unscathed.

I'm maintaining my boundaries with the kids, I do not allow them to be unruly or disrespectful, and I work on being the only adult in the house right now; phew!

I'm maintaining my weight. I lost 30lbs! I haven't weighed this since college! I'm 6'2" and I weigh 185. I walk and occassionally go for a swim.

My wife has actually come to me recently to talk, nicely. It surprised me a bit. She also called me yesterday to talk a bit. For the past couple of months, almost all conversations with her were full of her resentments toward me. I was looking at my emails to her for the past couple of months (since D-Day 3/25) and I realized I've really dramatically reduced the contact I've been having with her.

SAA talks about four rules for recovery: The rules of protection, care, time and honesty. The book hints at recovery when the WS isn't fully engaged, but I'm wondering about how that works? Any thoughts?

One of my wife's biggest needs is conversation and attention. I really want to give it to her, but not when it leads to further love busters. For the time being, I'm keeping contact with my wife at a minimun. I'm letting her determine when and how much she wants to talk.

I'm still trying to get some job interviews. I'm hoping I can land a good position out of state. I'm really wanting to move for two reasons: 1. Plan B, and 2. get my wife completely away from the OM and her job. I have a preliminary interview today at 1:30 for a position in Virginia. I'm not sure how that will work with kids involved and that has me worried.

Week 11

Rule of Protection.

It seems like the 1st rule, the 'Rule of Protection'. Must occur first and be solidly put in place before really engaging in full marital recovery and working on the other three rules; care (meeting needs), time (15 hours a week) and honesty.

"Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness'.

This includes love-busters, and the Policy of Joint Agreement. It's as though I'm engaged in this first rule unilaterally for the time being.

Why is my wife's conversation with me so nice the last couple of days?

I just received another pleasant phone call from her this afternoon. She was pleasant, happy and joked with me. It feels like she's just giddy about her divorce filing. All I could do is go along with the pleasantness of the conversation and Plan 'A' her, but it's a crummy feeling. I feel like I'm going along with her fantasy; that we'll be divorced and one big happy family. Is it possible to be too pleasant with your WW?

Shouldn't I be expecting to see depression and withdrawl if I was really seeing the beginning of recovery?

Help,

I would guess she is living in the fantasy that now that you two are going to divorce and she will get what she wants that you two will be friends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My suggestion is to point out that you don't need friends such as she. If/when you divorce that you will be at best civil to her. I would also be looking into the custody issues and the fact that she travels soo much.

She wants this divorce to be "friendly" because it makes her feel less guilt. SHe wants this divorce to be "friendly" because she can then claim that you wanted it to and did not fight it. She wants this divorce to be "friendly" so that she can tell the kids it was not her fault.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

Please consider your actions. I will also say that if you talk to her and she starts to LB, simply say, I will not tolerate your speaking like that to me, and leave the room.

You need to establish boundaries, not LB'ing does not mean getting run over.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

If she really is in withdrawl from the lack of contact with OM, yes, she should be in depression and hurting and upset. If she's not, then my first suspiscion is that NC is NOT in place.

Yea, it felt like she was in her fantasy world. Nothing else makes sense. I laughed a bit with her, but I ended the phone call. I couldn't take anymore, because I have no idea from what direction her pleasantness was coming.

It is really hard to know how to handle these moments, especially when they come as a surprise. For my wife, I believe conversation is her most important need. I want to meet her most important need with all my heart. It felt like I added something to her bank this afternoon, but it also didn't feel genuine either. You come away feeling used.

I'm just getting caught up on your thread. Is there any reason to think that NC IS in place? Otherwise, it could be what JL said (in her world, you will be friends after divorce) or it could be garden-variety cake-eating. Maybe OM was unavailable.

I don't think the reason matters. Just go with it. Having added to the love bank is the most important part. If she LB'ed you, it's different, but if you came away feeling used because you were trying to figure out why she was being nice, then you're overthinking it. Just go with it. Yes, it sucks.

I saw this:


Which is your goal? Breaking up the affair to save your marriage or getting a good divorce settlement? Think about your attorney's motivations. Exposure runs counter to what most people (including some therapists) think, but it is a cornerstone of Plan A. In my case, the OMW found out about the affair much earlier than I did but didn't tell me. If she had, I think we would be in a different place right now.

Have you read all the stuff in Bob's Toolbox?

Huh?
I don't understand your reasoning here. If you get a job offer in another state, your wife will wave good bye to you as you drive away. Forgive my bluntness - but right now she will feel gald that she does not ahve to see you every day, and be faced with her own guilt. Your wife would stay behind, in YOUR home, with your kids, so the kids would not have to move, or change schools, or find new friends. She would use this against you, to gain custody.
So WHY do you think this would get her away from her job, and away from OM? She has just filed for D - why would she move with you?

(sorry if this sounds too harsh - but I keep reading about how you hope to get another job out of state, but that seems like the worst thing you could do. Your 15 year old daughter would freak out. 15 years girls do not like to change schools)

Well, what do you suggest for Plan B? My wife constantly complains about money. The needs I'm providing her now would disappear when I move. My kids will eat the other man alive when he shows up at the house. It's the best plan I've got going right now; however, it's a moot issue without a good job offer. Otherwise I stay where I'm at; keep earning the income I'm earning out of the house; and sue for alimony and child support. But, there's no Plan B in that option.

You need to go read about plan B again. It does not mean leaving your children. It does not mean you have to move to another state. It means you deal with child issues via a third party and since she is the one traveling she should move out. I am not sure but legal separation would work IF it is allowed in your state. IN that you are protected financially, and there are boundaries on who lives where etc.

Check it out.

God Bless,

JL

I agree that leaving now would be one of the worst things you could do. Plus, I'm not convinced that you're ready for Plan B yet.

If I am offered a position, then I would move toward the end of the summer; about five months after D-Day. The OM lives in our town. The financial need is one of my wife's biggest needs. I have always provided domestic support, affection, family commitment, recreation, and other needs to my wife. By moving, my wife will stop receiving the fullfilment of these needs. The OM won't be able to step into my shoes. I can not get a good paying job in Michigan, but I believe I can get a very good paying executive position outside of Michigan. I can Plan B my wife, offer her a significant financial improvement, and get her permanently away from the OM. If I do not move, then I will not be able to change completely to meet her needs. She will always be able to fence sit and go back and forth between me and the OM, and have me continue to meet some of her needs.

As for my 15 year old. Her grades have plummeted. She's looking at an E,D,C and possibly worse in her core courses. Her psych just started her on medication. She is a young sophomore. It may be beneficial for her to repeat her sophomore year at another school. I do absolutely realize this will be very difficult for her.

By the way, I have a court appearance with my 15 year old. She must appear in juvenile court this friday for a minor in possession charge.

Getting my family out of Michigan and making a fresh start somewhere is what I think we all need.

FYI: Previous advice concerning my search for employment outside Michigan.

I've read and re-read 'Surviving An Affair'. The first rule is the 'Rule of Protection'. As far as I can tell, that's my Plan A until she decides to reconcile. The second rule is the 'Rule of Care' and that means meeting my wife's needs. Financial support, conversation are her two big un-met needs with me.

I'm clearly meeting a bunch of other needs now, but not all. In HNHN, the book clearly says that you can't meet 80% of your spouse's needs. You need to meet 100% of their needs. Isn't this right? So, I feel like I need to remove all the needs I'm providing her now (Plan B), then be prepared to meet 100% of her needs if and when she seeks me out. And, I need to set the stage so she can't waffle back and forth between me and the OM.

My advice, hww, is presuming the affair is over. WW will go with you because she's got no other options. She may not be super excited about your marriage but OM's out of the picture...so she goes with you down south to get a fresh start herself. IF OM is still involved and her filing divorce worked so they can be together....then moving may be a problem.


I have no problem with you interviewing. Even if you get the job, you can change your mind later. I'm only a tax attorney...so I have no idea how this could/will effect your legal claims. Seems the kids are old enough to choose which parent they want to live with...so, regardless of the Job hunt .... you will win or lose based upon their own preferences.

I do worry about them adjusting to a new environment. A broken home AND moving to a new state and new schools potentially without the support of one parent would be awefully tough on any adolescent. This fact alone...may incline them to choose to stay and live with your WW (assuming the divorce does go through) where they otherwise would have chosen you. How obligated do you feel to protect your children from her negative influence??? Are you prepared to go alone, without anyone in your family???? How do you feel about potentially forcing them to choose between not seeing you hardly ever and not seeing Mom hardly ever???

Again...you CAN always change your mind. You can always move and see what happens...only to return say next spring, if and when you realize that the plan to save your family didn't work. There is a chance that your wife will give-in and just go if she believes you are going regardless.

Sidenote - this "meeting her financial needs" stuff is not the be all end all. If you were to get this or some other big job it is not going to "poof" fix things. In Plan A...you TRY to meet what needs you can...but busting up the affair is the supreme goal. NOTHING can be recovered with a third party in the marriage. Get him out, once and for all, and THEN you can really talk to your wife about moving. All long as she is in the affair...she doesn't get a vote about where you move to hopefully with the kids.

Finally, consult with your attorney about how this would/could all play out in the event you did get divorced. I'm not even positive 12 years get to choose yet.

This is perhaps an interesting plan that needs hashing out with your attorney.

Mr. Wondering

While in Plan A, am I not emphasizing the important needs that my wife will allow me to fill, but doesn't appreciate inside her fantasy? Isn't Plan B the moment when these needs are taken from her? How am I going to do that in a reasonable period of time, if one of us doesn't move out? If I move, then I want her to see that it's also to meet some of her other needs.


I'm doing what I can to bust the affair up. However, I don't see that happening until my wife crashes and burns a bit. Again, Plan B; right? How else do I get my wife to crash and burn?

New: Well I just found out that the OM filed for divorce on the same day that my wife filed for divorce. The OMW has retained the same attorney I have. This is so painful.

Called the wife to confront her on the latest development. I was calm and listened to her side of the story. She continues to tell everyone that she and the OM are just friends.

I asked her, why did you both file for divorce on the same day if you are just friends? She said it was a coincidence; then she said, he filed the week before, so it wasn't on the same day. I asked her about the OM going back to his wife (he isn't), she said, she didn't care and he had his own reasons for divorcing his wife. I asked her why both people would file for divorce and neither one of them wanted to work on their marriage, if they weren't in an adulterous affair. She said she's done for her own reasons and he had his reasons, but it had nothing to do with each other.

I calmly asked her these questions so she could lie to me. I didn't argue with her. I let her give her own reasons. I just let her know that I don't believe her.

The goal that you should be going for is to get custody of your children (because you are the better parent and your wife travels), get her kicked out the house, and have to pay you child support. This is what you should be pushing for with your attorney.