Don't argue with her. She's leaving you for him. She knows it, he knows it, his wife knows it, and you know it. Arguing will only hurt your plan A. Fight like a bulldog for custody, use of the home, child support (and alimony if she makes more than you). This will quickly give her a much needed dose of reality.

Yep, that's where I'm at now.

Oh, and make it clear that you will NOT be part of her life after the divorce. Not friends, not ANYTHING in any fashion.

She's probably working under the common fantasy that everyone will up as one big happy family/friends thing...that bubble needs to be popped. That was a big factor in the end of my wife's affair...she had that fantasy as well, and I spelled out very clearly for her that I would NEVER be part of her life again if she left me for him. We're now 3 years recovered.

Yep, that is definitely her fantasy. She even tried to get me to start planning "family" vacations. I definitely told her that wasn't going to happen, and that I did NOT want to be anywhere near the OM. But, I haven't threatened her with the NEVER be part of her life again yet. That's coming and will definitely be spelled out in Plan B.

Yeah...the affair continues.

Proof: Never trust a Wayward, they lie.

She wants to noramlize things to make it all seem logical and acceptable. They both divorce...out of miserable marriages and then abracadabra...then end up dating and together.

You see...this makes moving difficult. However, if and when you win custody, permanent custody of the kids, you MAY then file a petition asking for approval to move more than 100 miles away to pursue a lucrative job offer. Until then, maybe you should not speak about it. Though your kids get a say and to a large extent choose where they want to live...the judge, I believe, makes the ultimate decision. IF they prove you are lining up to leave the state immediately, maybe your WW and her attorney will use that against you in court OR against you when trying to win favor with your children. In the alternative...indicating you are leaving and the kids can either come with you or stay...but regardless you are gone to a great job offer in North Carolina does send a direct message to WW that you have no intent of being her friend or sticking around to help/enable her poor choices. You are leaving...(btw...I find this to be a difficult position to put a 12 year old in)

It's a very delicate situation that really only your attorney can counsel you on. As a SAHD, you've got the upper hand right now. Don't jeopardize that...just love your children as best you can. They are going to need your consistentcy and support right now...despite how easy going they will TRY to act about it.

EXPOSE.

Also...meeting needs is not an affair busting strategy. You meet the needs you can to make you an atractive alternative to the affair, meeting her financial needs is tricky here. You can't enable her affair either. Her financial agenda is to rip you off. She feels entitled to everything as well as destroying you.

Yes..in Plan B, separation is needed; but, this is HER poor choice, you are the stay at home parent, if ANYONE leaves, it's her. Don't you dare EVER move out. That is your hill to die....unless you want OM living in your home with your kids.

W

I went to plan B for about 8 hours before my WW realized that we weren't going to be friends, and quickly agreed to NC with OM (which she broke 5 times, but hey, she was an addict.

Yes, the affair continues. My wife's lying continues. The intensity of this situation really makes me wonder. My title is 'I feel like my situation is worse than anyone elses' and it still feels like it. She is so determined.

It turns out that the OMW is working with the same law firm that I am. So, that probably explains some things.

I can not think of things I need to be doing for the stick at this time. The affair has gone deep, deep underground.

The divorce will raise some new realities.

Wife (inside her fantasy world) has invited me to go birthday present shopping with her. I'm not sure. On the one hand, I can Plan A her, but on the other hand I feel like I'm feeding her fantasy.

I'm really going back and forth on this shopping trip my wife asked me to go on with her. Should I Plan A her and meet her needs, or begin to withdraw because I'm feeding the fantasy?

I've asked my attorney, 'how can I get my wife out of the house'?

The "stick" of Plan A is one way you either end up using it in unison with the carrot to save your marriage OR the stick absolutely drives her nuts and SHE will decide to move out because she can't stand your logical, loving and reasonable intolerance of her adulterous behavior.

Waywards HATE having the light shined on their illicit behavior. They will do ANYTHING, including abandoning children, money, property OR in the alternative taking everything, filing false police reports, filing bogus restraing orders to AVOID being rightfully judged for their behavior that they "just can't not do".

She'll certainly stay put if you make it easy and comfortable.

Examples to think about: Rules like OM doesn't meet or speak to our children; You do not speak to OM on the phone or on the computer (IM'ing) in the family home; We are to be completely honest with our children...this effects their lives, they are old enough to know and are entitled to the full truth;

You do not DEMAND such...you merely state it in a nuetral, matter of fact tone. If she disobey's, you call her on it in a respectful nuetral tone.

THERE IS NO POJA'ING WITH A WAYWARD SPOUSE. They are an addict. Addicted to their OP. They won't agree to anything unless it serves their addiction in some way or another...so don't bother trying UNTIL NO CONTACT IS ESTABLISHED. You can't negotiate with 3 people in the marriage.

Good luck. Yes, your situation is tough, but not impossible. Whatever happens YOU will become a better person and save or leave this relationship KNOWING YOU did all you could to save your family. YOU will endure...with integrity.

Mr. Wondering

In bold I've definitely done! In italics has been a bit harder because she's not been telling the kids the truth, and it's been difficult to overcome. She's manipulating them. For example, my oldest keeps confidential what her mother tells her. Only when she says something really wrong, do I correct her thinking.

What does POJA'ING mean? Thanks for the encouragement. I'm also thinking that a tough divorce process will bring some reality into the situation.

HWW

Yes...the divorce process CAN be a stick

Especially

IF you don't settle to quickly.

They will do EVERYTHING in their power to get you to settle early. THEY (WW and OM) do NOT want to be deposed; nor put on the stand. Cockroaches prefer the darkness and secrecy just as infidels do.

Try not to waste your attorney fees battling and negotiating a settlement such that you can endure, at least, until you get the opportunity to depose them both. The BIGGEST advantage is you will get the full and complete truth about your life AND such truth will forever be documented.

Far too often, I've seen and met divorced persons that are bitter FAR too long because they FAILED to ascertain all the events and facts that proceeded their divorce. I'm not saying you for sure are getting divorce...but, if it is God's will...at least determine EVERYTHING that happended to you so you don't have to speculate, after the fact...when you are unable to do anything about it.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - POJA is a MB principle. It stands for Policy of Joint Agreement. It is meant for marriage recovery and enhancement, not to be done with a active wayward.

I'm still looking for some advice on the above questions. My wife (and the OM) filed for divorce Thursday a week ago. I'm really not in a give-my-wife-undivided-attention-and-fill-her-conversation-need-mood. Especially since it perpetuates her fantasy. But, maybe I should just endure and chaulk it up as more Plan A'ing.

Let met please add a bit here.


You have children. It is the nature of an affair for the adulterer to provide the kids a very distorted version of the events and circumstances leading up to a divorce that is the result of an affair. This is patently unfair to both the betrayed parent and the betrayed children.

A divorce proceedings complete with transcript provides a method of preserving a far more accurate version of events than does a settlement. Settlements serve the purposes of the courts, which are overwhelmed with cases and do not serve the best interest of a betrayed parent in terms of insuring the kids learn what really happened at a point in time when they are old enough to understand and need to have the facts, the whole facts and nothing but the facts.

Larry

Go shopping with her. If you are in Plan A...then Plan A her. Your frustration level is an indication to me that Plan B may be coming soon, like when she moves out!!!. However, Plan B will be ineffective if not proceeded with a decent Plan A.

I know it's tough. I've done it.

Here's a little list of do's and don'ts I compiled. You likely read this in Longhorn's "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" thread over on the Infidelity Just Found Out board. It's pinned to the top and has LOTS of Plan A advice. Anyway, the list:

DO's

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

Instead of just not spending much on her because you don't want to enable or go overboard into this fantasy of hers. Withhold purchasing things for her because DIVORCE is expensive. Don't say it angry. It's just a fact.

"Honey, hadn't we be minding our finances a bit right now..with lawyers involved and all there is not going to be a lot of extra cash to be spending frivilously...we've gotta think about the kids here too"

That kind of "reality" is exactly what the wayward does NOT want to hear. The don't want to hear how difficult or uncomfortable this is going to be because they can NOT consider NOT doing it. They think...stop talking...it's going to happen anyway...so if no one talks about it then I don't have to think about it UNTIL it happens.

Now don't keep hammerin' her. You are in Plan A. Balance. Carrot -- Stick.

w

Mr. Wondering, I am not sure what made me read this thread... but I did.

I am so glad I did.

My WH has been trying to kick me to the curb because he cannot stand to look at me. He has accused me of stalking him (which is laughable... because I am not) and has had his lawyer send me a letter to try and scare me into giving up.

I will not let it get me. Thank you for your post further up on this page. It really helped me.

MrW. Thanks for the advice. The shopping is for the twins upcoming birthday present. I'll go and stop withdrawing. I sure her attorney has told her to deny the OM from now on. So, when I confronted her last week with the coincidental divorce filing, she had to lie through her teeth about it.

I'll get back to Plan A.

Don't sweat trying to convince her.

You know she's having an affair

She knows she's having an affair.

Her attorney likely told her to cool it...but she's an entitled wayward. She CAN'T. Just bust her when she does something.


When she says "kids will be just fine". You ask her to explain and then listen: "mmmm, honey, how is that?", "So you think they will be just fine...interesting, how is that, what is going to happen?"

YOU won't be able to teach her or convince her of anything anyway...so why bother...meet her need for communication and just ask her to explain further, she may just go down a thought patter she didn't intend to take herself...but she then can't UNthink it. She plants her own seeds of doubt which MAY germanate when the consequences of her choices come rolling in and she is faced with making new choices.

Mr. W

I had a difficult discussion with my 15 year old daughter. Based on what her mother had told her and with great conviction, my daughter tried to tell me how the OM was not a factor any more; that mom was divorcing me for other reasons; that the OM was going back to his wife because she had developed cancer again and was dying. I kept trying to tell her that she should trust me; that I was a wise person who was working hard to keep the family together; that more was going on than she new; that there are reasons why mom was behaving like this, but it was inappropriate for me to go into more detail.

But, my daughter continued to argue with me that the OM was not a factor any more; that he wanted to go back to his family and work things out for the sake of his son and his ailing wife. So I told her that the same day mom filed for divorce against me, my attorney informed me that the OM filed for divorce against his wife. Her balloon popped.

My daughter was shocked and enraged. I felt really bad about the conversation, but I could not let my daughter perpetuate her mother's lie.