Jim,

There was contact last night. So, back to Plan A and working on Plan B.

I'll keep my weight down, make myself appealing, remind her that I'm ready to meet her needs, but she must go NC with OM.

I've been thinking about what to say to the wife (should she start to explore marriage restoration) so she doesn't feel like the affair will be used against her (held over her head), but I haven't come up with any really good talking points. Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks for the post.

Marital resoration for the wayward wife usually doesn't seem impossible because they fear the BH will hold the infidelity over their head forever, in my estimation, wayward wives just see marital resoration as an impossibility on an emotional level. They just don't see how they could ever be "in love" with you again. They've spent months/years rationalizing and justifying their adulterous actions to the point where they are convinced they just don't "feel" anything for their BH anymore. They can't conceive of getting that back.

Not to fear. At first they nearly ALL feel that way. They will complain about being "stuck" or whatever. But that's OK...because, in my estimation, the BH deep down "feels" the same way. The BH has just been betrayed and their "love bank" really isn't quite as full as they think. You BOTH really are at the same starting point...a loveless marriage.

Thus...when they complain that they just can't conceive of ever being in love with you again...AGREE WITH THEM ADDING "Don't you think I fear feeling the same way afterall, I just found out recently my wife has been cheating on me for YEARS"), but continue on by saying..."I'd at least like to try and determine if that is the final answer...as I, too, do not wish to (or absolutely won't) stay in a loveless marriage...forever".

A talking point is..."wouldn't the best case scenario for YOU, ME and the KIDS be that we recover and attempt to restore, maintain and exhibit a loving marriage". It can be done...MOST marriages survive infidelity and actually recover and find themselve in a better marriage than existed pre-infidelity....I think WE are worth it and our children deserve we at least try.

"Honey...you ARE NOT trapped. IF you go to complete NO CONTACT and we both give an honest effort to reconcile and find that it is impossible, then, after say 1 year I will gladly and cooperatively end this marriage with you. I am only seeking a commitment to TRY. I am willing to TRY as well"

Mr. Wondering

Mr.W.

Thank you.

When I caught my wife talking to the OM last night, my wife and I got into a familiar discussion again. My wife has begun to change her story regarding the OM. He is just "her friend" and the reason for the divorce is that she has never loved me and tried the last year to make it work; however, I wasn't included in that attempt to restore the marriage.

So, last night in that conversation, my wife mentioned talking to a mutual female married friend of ours. She went on to say, 'how the friend confirmed her unhappiness as far back as one year ago'. The friend further confirmed her foggy mind that we are not meant to be married.

Well, I went to go see the friend and I went through things from my perspective with her. One positive note to all this is that my wife is beginning to talk to other people besides the OM. Up until a week ago, he was the only person she talked to.

HWW

Well, she is probably trying to build her circle of "enabling" friends....this is a typical pattern....she's looking for support for her A. If she has friends that are weak morally, then rest assured, they will side with your WW.

MywifeIlove,

Yes, she already has one enabling friend and there's nothing I can do about her (she's recently divorced for the 2nd time). But, the friend I went and talked to was important for me to conact because she's a married friend. Our network of married friends is large and I think my wife is missing our married friends network. That's good, I want her to miss that, it's part of the conversation need.

HWW

Tuesday: now that my wife left for a business trip, we won't see each other for 10 days. On Thursday, I leave for a trip with my son. My wife returns that same day to leave Saturday for a trip with my two daughters. Both trips are for previously scheduled kid activities.

I'm not going to have contact with my wife for that entire period. I don't know whether that's good or bad.

I have to admit, this morning I was filled with a lot of loneliness while I talked to my wife as she got herself ready to leave. I had more feelings of loneliness than I've had at anytime during this tragedy. I still love my wife, but I'm becoming extremely lonely. How do you do it? How do you work through your needs not being met?

I was at a party Saturday, my wife was there for a little while and everyone knew what's going on between my wife and me. Talking to some of the women there made me feel very good. I'm really longing for companionship. I know the dangers that are in front of me and I'm sure I can stay faithful, but it's tough.

Don't put yourself in a situation to feel desired or flattered by other women. I know it feels good right now, but it can be dangerous. I know it feels lonely as heck right now. Just think of it as 6-12 months of loneliness so that you'll have a lifetime of happiness.

Mywifeilove,

I like reading your threads. It gives me some hope. I also see a lot of similarities between you and me.

When I got to toward the end of your 3rd thread, I got such a big smile on my face. Wow!!!! Wow!!!! Your thread is inspirational.

HWW

Thanks,

And I was inspired by so many others on this board.

You asked a couple posts ago "how do you do it?" Yes you are longing for companionship, but it feels like you have been rejected....but you need to understand, that it is your WW's rejection of her own pain, that is causing the atrocious attitude toward you.

Look at every situation on these boards.....most of them the WW loves or acts like they love their BS....UNTIL......D-Day.....then the pain of what position they have put themselves, their family, and their future in is too much to bear....thus devaluing of their loved ones, to uprise their own value....IOW...the easy road. The hard road is to own your mistakes, increase your value though moral choices, and honor those commitments......just honor those commitments....because when one jumps out of a commitment.....they then question themselves for a very long time as to how they can commit themselves to anything again. As the betrayed spouse, show them love and affection and the ability of you to forgive...until they move away.....then show them that you will be missed, with your head held high.

I read the title of your post and had to reply. Me and my WW are exactly the same age as you and your WW. We have been married for 26 years. If you think your situation is worse than anyone else here, please come live with my WW for a week. She has not filed for D because that may prevent me from being hurt anymore and she wouldn't like that. Actually, she wants to continue her blatant adultery with married OM and live with me so she can also continue her comfy lifestyle. I talked to my attorney yesterday and will be filing for D unless a miracle occurs and quickly. Her coldness and abusiveness have became so bad that all I can think of is getting away from her. If I had to live with her under these conditions for another 3 months, I would pray for death for relief. Read my posts here in the Plan A/Plan B forum and also on www.survivinginfidelity.com(same username as here) if you want to see just how badly a WW can behave.

journeyer,
I have read your post before. Found a lot of the advice you were given to be helpful.

Terrible stuff to go through, isn't it? For me, it's like dealing with a child. I find that I've been slowly setting aside my strong love for my wife and moving to a different mind set. I still love my wife, but the woman I'm talking to these days is not the same woman I knew last year. My wife throws temper tantrums once in a while, hurling all kinds of non-sense, but I listen; then set boundaries. The boundaries have actually worked well for me. I've been surprised that I was able to get her out of the master bedroom without a massive fight: adulteresses sleep elsewhere in the house. The other goofy thing she's been doing is taking my clothes up to the attic. I think she's agreed to stop. We'll see.

I thought I started to see some reality creep in, but I know she talked to the OM. As soon as she does, the fog rolls in thick.

Sounds to me like your wife will respond to Plan B; but you've got to come to terms with meeting her needs during recovery.

For me, I'm still not optimistic that Plan B is going to work. We'll see, once I get there. My Plan B will be a bit different because of the kids. My wife can't take care of the kids and she hasn't moved out. I have to work with my attorney to get her removed.

HWW

HWW,

I'm not sure just who I am talking to these days either, but it is most definitely not the woman I have loved for 30 yrs. Talking to her is like talking to a 15 yr. old. She spends an inordinate amount of time trying to impress my 17 yr. old daughter and her friends, trying to act like them, talk like them, wear the same clothes they do. Sometimes she will snap out of it and I can talk to her(not about us)like I always did before this happened, but if my daughter walks into the room she immediately reverts to 15 yr. old mode, it would make you sick to witness it.

She throws tantrums also. You should have seen the one she threw after I caught her and OM leaving their 'secret' meeting spot. It was like a scene from the exorcist, I thought her head would start spinning around at any moment.

From reading your posts, I think you have a real shot at reaching your WW now. The fact that you see reality creeping in at times is very encouraging. My WW has no concept of reality at all right now, all she knows about is 'true love' and how she has finally found it. It sounds as if your wife has started to come down a little from the peak of the 'love' addiction and has started to question if those feeling are real. My wife is definitely at the peak of it and is totally unreachable. All I can hope for is that it starts to decline with her and that reality starts to creep back in.

journeyer,

I know exactly what you're talking about. My wife has been talking to my 15 year old. She also wants to be one of the girls. After telling my daughter and her friends about the affair, she even swore to secrecy one of my daughter's friends. After a couple of weeks, the young lady finally confessed to her mother. The mother was not happy and sought out my wife to discuss the inappropriatness of the conversation with 15 year olds!

Last Tuesday, I had a similar 'Excorcist' moment. My wife went nuts, I had never seen her do anything remotely similar with anyone. I think it was a fantasy busting moment for her actually. I had to just take the verbal punishment; she wouldn't let me speak. Finally, I had to get her to agree to 'conversation rules'. I emailed her those rules the next day. They are based on POJA. Here is what I said in my email:



I appreciate the words of encouragement, but I'm not so sure. My wife continues to move full steam ahead with the divorce. The reality I thought I saw was short lived. I may have even imagined it. Certainly, when she spoke to the OM the other evening, the fog returned.

My attorney is doing a good job of making the divorce process very difficult on my wife. I expect another exorcist moment after my wife gets my attorney's latest court filings.

Are you posting to the Plan A / Plan B thread regularly now? If so, then I'll keep an eye on your thread.

HWW

You think she's pissed now, just wait until the court gives you primary custody of the children, the house, and forces her to pay child support and/or alimony. She'll blow her top. This will also cause her to seriously reconsider her position. You have your lawyer push for EVERYTHING.

My wife is still in a thick fog. I'm Plan A'ing her. Plan B is still off a bit because of the kids and legal issues. The wife has not moved out.

What's the best way to communicate with my wife? In the past, I tried to be kind and overly talkative. I thought I was filing an EN; however, it appeared to annoy her more than anything. Recently, I've dramatically reduced my personal communication with her. When I do communicate with her, it's short and to the point.

Am I doing the right thing by reducing my communication with her?

Oh, definitely. We just answered her Divorce Complaint, and that's what I am seeking. I'm also seeking attorney's fees and other unspecified compensation as the court may award.

I don't think my wife is aware of two things: 1. Both I and the OMW have the same law firm and they are the best; and

2. The judge we've been assigned is the best possible judge for BS's. He has a reputation for hating divorce, especially when children are involved.


Let me tell you about the OM. He's a real scum bag (venting here). He's 7 years older than my wife, and a new grandpa. He was my wife's boss, but he's being let go by the company. He's divorcing his 2nd wife with kids (he has one 10 year old now). He divorced his 1st wife when he had 3 small kids. My wife says he blames the whole thing on his wife; however, his wife has been struggling with cancer. Apparantly, the OMW was just diagnosed with some more spots that could be cancerous. So, this guy is leaving his cancerous wife and 10 year old son. Nice guy, huh?

I would still like some advice on the talking to my wife question above. Dr. Hadley talks about the BS sending notes and talking to his wife on the phone during Plan A. How often, how much should be said, what kind of things should be talked about, and who should initiate?

HWW

[color:"blue"] I copied and pasted this from Longhorn's thread titled "For Newly BS spouses" which is pinned to the top of the Just Found Out board. If you have not read it...do so now. It's got a good summary of the actions you are to be taking now in various forms.[/color]

-------------------

NEWBIE UPDATE

Well, today I thought I'd add my "Do's and Don'ts of Plan A List". This list I carried around with me from early into my wife's affair and then well into recovery. I referred to it from time to time to keep myself grounded in how I wanted to behave. A big part of Plan A is being the best person, spouse and parent (if applicable) that you can be despite the circumstances around you. My basic premise that enabled me to survive day to day was "Act, Don't React" (i.e. - "ACT" like the person I wanted to be without any love busters and do not allow myself to simply "React" to the harshness of the reality I foung myself in at the moment). Using this basic premise, I was able to weather the roller coaster of infidelity and eventually restore my marriage.

There are many emotional strains on the wayward spouse but their primary problem/issue is the OP (Other Person). If "No Contact" has not yet been established they will behave with a single minded intention to get their "fix" of the OP. If you threaten their ability to obtain such fix depending on the length of time between fixes, the quality of the recent fix and the security of such fix you will be met with resistance in varying degrees. No doubt about it, your efforts WILL be resisted but how they do it is a crap-shoot. They may yell, threaten or otherwise blatantly attempt to manipulate you with fear, anger, intimidation or whatever OR be more caniving and attempt to appease you with lies, more deceipt and covert manipulation. Either way they are not really LISTENING to you...you are their secondary concern. Understanding that is essential.

Conversly, the things you do that do not interfere with their addiction will be strongly encouraged and reinforced or perhaps simply ignored. Again, it's manipulation. They will be nice to you, have sex with you, spend time with you IF you allow them to continue having their affair...unabated. The policy of appeasement does not work. You can't simply be a doormat no matter how comfortable your wayward MAY attempt to make you feel.

So in the end you are left feeling powerless and beat up. Which in all essence you are. It's THEIR addiction you have little influence over. Only the addict can decide for themselves when to releive themselves of their addiction. They will do so IF YOU behave according to the solid, well tested, professionally advised Marrigage Builders principles. You, of course, must practice both the "CARROT AND THE STICK of Plan A (see link in my signature line below) to attempt to bust up the affair. But much of the STICK does not involve your day to day interactions with your "FOGGED OUT" wayward spouse. My do's and don't list is how you manage your spouse while you do the rest of Plan A.

Some days your spouse will be kind to you and other days hostile. As you ATTEMPT to pull closer to them and reestablish intimacy they will no doubt respond by pulling away for fear of you interrupting their affair OR, if the affair is over, for fear of leading you on. If you pull away from them the Waywards may often pull you closer for fear of losing you, for fear of losing their options as they cake eat/ride the fence of indecision. However, if you pull away to hard you may run a huge risk that you will merely reinforce and legitimize their built up rationalizations and justifications. It's simply the roller coaster of infidelity and the more you recognize it for what it is the more POWER you have to control YOURSELF as you both progress through this mess.

The wayward emotional pull back is to be EXPECTED. Waywards almost always do this. They take a step towards you and you respond appreciatively...you acquire Hope and push for more, more, more. You hunger for HOPE and they fear it. WS's don't feel worthy of it and are holding on to so much of the rationalizations and justifications that they can't see straight YET...even if they HAVE recommitted to the relationship and gone to "NO CONTACT". They fear hurting you further, hurting their family further. They fear you are placing much more significance on each step forward than you should cause they legitimately and quite necessarily DON'T FEEL IT...YET. So they slap you down and retreat. They may even defend/insulate themselves from you by calling you NEEDY AND UNATTRACTIVE to get you to back off. Hence, the step backwards.

When you detach from the rollercoaster and allow him/her to proceed at his/her desired speed you can hopefully minimize the steps back. When YOU internalize and beleive yourself to be the obvious choice, acquire patience and the confidence that he/she would be a fool not to recomitt to you, then you become the confident, unpressing, spouse that swept them off their feet so many years ago. He/she can more easily recommit to the person they saw back at the beginnig of your relationship than they can to the devastated spouse they see before them now.

You are behooved to for the most part just let it go for now, OP's soon to be or IS out of the picture...this is just you and your spouse now. Try to date them (alone time without KIDS is KEY...family time is NOT as effective). Movie dates suck cause you can't talk but those are the kind of dates you want now. Consider loud restaurants, clubs and bars. Activity based dates where you are not seated facing each other forced to have that “serious talk”. But if they won't date you go out yourself and either have fun or feign fun. They will eventually get suspicious or feel the need to take a break themselves and hopefully follow along.

In conclusion, you only control you. The more you understand the dynamics of infidelity the more prepared you will be to anticipate it and combat it. Your spouse, as expected is behaving like an idiot right now and "idiocy" will likely be the forecast for some time. YOU must be the leader of your family and the leader of your marriage and despite the crap you are putting up with BE the best person you can be....simply, ACT, DON'T REACT.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

OK...the list of Do's and Don'ts.

Do's
1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

*sorry the above is a little choppy...I combined several similiar posts to compile this one.

What do you think is 'too hard'? I've pulled back. She hasn't tried to contact me. I'm thinking I should just wait for now. I'm not going to see her for over a week.

HWW

I spoke to my sister this afternoon. She told me she ran into a mutual married male friend of ours. Before I go into the story, I should say that my two younger sisters have been great support for me; just great. Anyway, my sister and my friend talked about my wayward wife and the things she has recently been trying to tell people about me. The good news is, I'm pretty well known and liked in my town, and most of our friends are solidly behind me. The bad news is, not everyone is my friend.

My sister called me to tell me about some of the things my wife has been recently saying and she started to cry on the phone. I listened and told her everything will be fine, and I asked, 'are you ok'. She was very upset and humble that I was so concerned about her given everything I've been going through.

I simply told her, 'learn from me and go home to your husband and learn each other's needs. If you and your sister can strengthen your own marriages because you see the trauma that I'm going through, then I will truely be happy.'

I really felt wonderful that some good might come from this mess.