First of all, put your ring back on. That is a sign of you giving up. You keep it on until you are no longer married.

That being said, it is time to go to plan B. Plan B is about protecting the love you have left, so you don't hate your WW by the time her affair ends. And trust me, it will end. Then you will have a chance to rebuild your marriage with your WW. The only question is if you will still want to by then. I know you are working toward getting her out of the house and plan B. You've just got a little plan A left. It was times like these that I prayed and asked God to wire me some emergency love units so my bank wouldn't go negative. You've gotten this far, you might as well keep it up until you can get to plan B.

Also, don't think that she hasn't noticed these changes. She's just trying to rationalize that they aren't for real so she can continue to justify her affair. She knows you've changed and it's eating her inside. She just doesn't want you to know that.

Ok.

Starting month four. I CAN'T STAND THIS!!!!

Plan A is sooo hard. My wife is being so nice to me, and my heart is breaking!!!! I know it's all a show to keep me off-balance. I have to be nice. I have to endure without exploding. I have to look like I'm moving on with my life, but I'm not. I'm still in love with my wife. God, it's awful.

I don't know when I'm going to be able to start Plan B. I think my attorney has everything she needs to begin the process to find out if we can remove my wife from the home.

Found this on another thread today:

In my opinion;

1. You are needy. She knows it.
2. She is working you on that basis for whatever it is she wants, likely money.
3. Women don't respect needy men very much.
4. Your kid needs you.

So, get a grip, be in charge of yourself and get on with our life.

Just my opinion.

Yes, kick her out, aka grow a pair. BS fog: I had it bad. I couldn't think I was so mixed up. Talk about scrambled brains. That was me. I had NOT found this place yet. I talked to a guy at the suicide hotline who got me straight.

The points I remember are:

1. Get your head on straight. Forget her, think of you and the kids. What is best for YOU and the kids. She isn't thinking of you, she is thinking of herself.

2. Figure out what YOU want. If it is her, tell her exactly what you want and do not compromise. She either gives you what you want, without exception and without holding back or kick her [censored] out.

3. Life will go on with or without her. But the kids need a healthy dad and a healthy mom. If she isn't going to get her head on straight, that isn't your problem it is her's and the kid's, so at least you can be there for them.

4. She screwed up, not you. You are under no obligation to repair her problem. She is trying to make her problem your problem, don't buy it.

Well, I thought about it for about ten minutes and asked a couple of clarifying questions. I realized that I had hocked my manhood and needed to go to the pawn store and get them back, right now. I hoisted them up and called my wife who was out "Shopping." I said: "Get it home, I have made up my mind what and where I am and what I am going to do."

She did, madder than all get out. That made no difference. I simply said: "Get rid of him or I am gone right now, and I will not come back." I said some other stuff that isn't important to your situation near as I can tell.

She got rid of him immediately. I gave her a set of instructions and boundaries. To this day she follows them without exception. I love her. She says she loves me and acts like it.

It doesn't always work. It did for me. Your mileage may vary. But your life will be screwed up as Hogan's goat until you take charge of it. So will your kid's."

I like this above. I don't intend to love bust, but I intend to force my wife out. I definitely continue to tell her what she needs to do: NC with the OM.

What steps do you have in place when she crosses your boundaries and DOES contact OM?

I previously set a boundary that she may not speak to the OM in the house or in the presence of the children. I have not caught her breaking that boundary. I have also set a boundary for not speaking or seeing the OM, but she breaks that boundary.

The last time I caught her (Father's Day evening) she was at the park just down the street on her cell phone. When she saw me, she hung up the phone. I confronted her and she admitted to speaking to him (he was having a bad day).

I told her to stop speaking to the other man and she must stop seeing the other man. I also told her that I was ready to meet her emotional needs. The emotional needs that she is getting from the other man.

She tried to tell me that she's 'just friends' with the other man, but I pointed out that the things she had said to me about the other man in the past make being 'just friends' impossible.

I say, 'when you tell me he knows you better than anyone; he is your soul mate; you're more in love now then ever before . . well, there's no way you can just be friends.'

OK...so the real question was...

What are the CONSEQUENCES for her violating that boundary? How are you making crossing that boundary a painful thing?

Good examples would be to 're-expose' every time she contacts OM. Let her family and friends know when she breaks her agreemant with you...so that they can again put pressure on her to stop. If it continues after that a couple of times, what next? Tell her that you won't fund her using her cell phone to call him? And then cancel her cell phone? Eventually leading up to telling her that if she contacts him again, she needs to move out, because if she continues she's going to destroy any love for her that you have left.

Get the idea? A boundary is only effective if its ENFORCED. You enforce it by having unpleasant consquences for violating it.

Wow, another terrible night.

It began with my wife talking on the phone to someone. When I asked who, she wouldn't tell me. I asked if it was the OM and she became furious. She called me names and refused to talk to me. I told her name calling was inappropriate and then it got worse.

More love busters, but I've got to maintain the boundaries. She also slipped in a new name, a name I hadn't heard before, so now I have to determine if my wife is a serial cheater.

Yep, it's bad, very, very bad.

Last night, I addressed a lot of new topics. I probably tried to over educate my wife, but I'm tired of her behavior.

I suggested an experiment where she and I would spend a lot of time together for the next six months, but she must break all contact with the other man. She said 'no'.

I suggested we do the above for the sake of the children because divorce will be very detrimental for the children. She said it won't be bad unless I make it bad on them. I told her she needs to seek out medical and psychological advice from doctors on divorce and it's affects on children. I told her look at the affect your own childhood had on you with your biological father abandoning you and your poor relationship with your step father. She said, your right, I hated HATED my step father. He lived off my mother just like you're living off of me.

I tried to change the subject to something softer to get away from love busting, but she continued to fume. I asked why she was so angry. She said it was because of all the resentments she had toward me. I said to her, you have to learn to release these resentments. She said she could not. I told she should talk to a psychiatrist, because this was very unhealthy.

I kept coming back to NC with the OM and she said he didn't matter, this was all about me and how I need help internalizing it and reflecting on how horrible a person I am and how I won't deal with the fact that she can't stand me any more and wants out of the marriage. She accused me of going in circles back to the OM and he didn't matter; that's when she mentioned the new man's name.

My wife is so disturbed, it's scary.

And there you have it.....I think I mentioned somewhere way back on your thread about a lack of respect.

Your WW wants you to be Mr. Super Corporate America, six figure income, business suit/tie, large grand ambitions, etc not a home maker husband. I don't care whether she agreed to it or not or that it is necessary or not or whether it's best for the kids or not or whether she would be willing to do it or not...she just does not respect your role in the relationship.

I would protect myself and children from this toxic WW (not your wife, but the current wayward version). She might also be helped if she could talk to a MC or IC.

I would nuspect the other name she's thrown out there is merely a distraction. To throw you off track or to further destroy any hope you may have. She wants out and she wants you to let her out easily with money and the kids. They ALL want the same thing but what she wants, in this wayward state of mind is irrelevant to how YOU act and behave towards her in YOUR plan.

ACT, Don't React.

She can question your value as a stay at home father but it should have NO EFFECT on you unless you buy into it. Only YOU can put yourself down. I know it's hard to remain confident and secure about yourself in this ugly times but if you just imagine WW as a crackhead saying these things it may be easier. Everything she is saying is the exact same things a crackhead that didn't want to quit would say to there interferring spouse.

Stick to your plan for your set period of time. Protect your backside legally and financially and hope that the affair ends and you get the chance soon to rebuild your marriage. If not, YOU, individual are taking the first steps towards personal recovery. The first step being...doing everything within your power to fight the good fight for you and the kids so that IF it does end, YOU will move on with integrity knowing such.

Mr. Wondering

When she says that its NOT about OM...

Tell her that you've read from one of the leading marriage counselor's in the nation, someone who's helped THOUSANDS of marriages recover from infidelity, and you know that this simply isn't true.

Tell her not only that you read that, but that you also read there that this claim that its "not about OM" is a very common response from someone who's involved in an affair.

Tell her that there's a whole pattern that these things follow, that there's nothing unique or new about her situation, or yours. And that you KNOW that this situation is recoverable.

Redo your challenge. Tell her that if its NOT about OM, that your challenge should be nothing to her then. She should be able to EASILY do this. And that then she can walk away knowing she's done her part to try to save the marriage. That its her chance to prove to you and to herself that its not about OM, and that the two of you did everything you could to save the marriage.

Thank you everyone I really appreciate the inspiration. I can't tell you how much this helps.


hopeandpray, man I have been trying to get her to talk to someone. The good news is she's talking to someone other than the OM. The bad news is she's talking to a two time divorcee and I can only assume she's getting confirmation.


MrWondering, thanks that helps me hear that and keep up my Plan A. Thanks. Wow, this is tough.


Owl, you don't think I would be going to far with this? I've been careful not to talk to much about Surviving An Affair. I have asked her to read HNHN twice. She's ignored my request and I leave the book out for her in the TV room.

HWW

MrW, last night I started to plant seeds with my wife that the feelings she is experiencing are false.

I described the environment at work she was in and how she and the OM were able to sit in an office and complain about each other's spouses. I told her that her feelings were a natural outcome of these discussions but they were set in a protective bubble, outside the reality of everyday life. I told her I can not compete with the OM in that environment because he can do no wrong. That's when I proposed the six month experiment I talked about in the above post.

Did I go too far? When I'm directly challenged by her, I don't like being pushed around. So, I'm telling her (calmly) what I think she needs to do and why.

Ordinarily I would say that 'educating' a WS is a waste of time.

But I also believe that in my case, my wife DID respond somewhat to that education. She hated it, but she also could only deny it so far. And hearing it from me, AND from both of our MC's (we had one that my wife detested, so we started going to my IC for MC counseling instead) just drove it home to her.

It's up to you. I love the challenge approach, and have had a couple of posters here who have had great success with it. Sysyphus was one in particular.

Its up to you to decide how much is too much. You know that the reason she's avoiding those books is because she doesn't want to face the truth...that HER AFFAIR is the biggest flaw in your situation right now.

All attempts to "teach" a WS inevitably lead to

WS STATEMENT: "REGARDLESS OF ______, I CAN'T NOT DO THIS".

Doesn't mean you shouldn't plant seeds. Just work on HOW you plant seeds. I say pretend you are Frasier Crane and just LISTEN. Ask questions. Poignant questions at times. Try to lead HER to state and figure out what SHE needs to do instead of telling her "what I think she needs to do and why" [quoted from above].

It's called Charging Nuetral. Since no real decision is likley to be made by the WS that day or that conversation you don't have to invest in any answer or comment. There will NOT be an AHA/lightbulb moment. Just stick to the Do's and Don't list I've posted before. Keep meeting needs. The longer she talks to YOU, the less time OM gets and the more "concerned" OM gets. OM's biggest threat to stealing your WW is YOU. He knows it...though he will feign uber-confidence (unless it behooves him to act insecure). OM's are worms. Deny him access without seemingly doing so. Affairs thrive with Time and privacy. They get neither as much as you can control it.

Carry on.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - double negatives ARE intentional <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Owl,

Thanks. Yea, I think she listens to what I say even though she spews awful ugly insults when I say them. So, I think I will continue to cafefully, selectively 'educate' her.

It's very plain that my wife's affair continues. It may not be physical, but they are finding ways to talk. I'm exposing the affair as much and as often as I can.

I spoke to the OMW tonight. I learned a great deal. I also suggested to the OMW that she read Surviving An Affair and HNHN and look at this web site. I'm going to talk to her further.

I knew almost everything that the OMW knew, but she confirmed certain dates and also confirmed that the affair was as intense as I thought. I learned about the physical side a bit more. I also learned that the OM is living on his own in a house that's run down and dirty. I also learned that the OM has been fired and his last day was Friday.

I spoke to my attorney about starting the process to force my wife out of the house. Now, I need to know how to use the information I get from the OMW. I need advice please, and I will be sensitive to her and her family.

HWW

So, the wife stayed out late. The OMW told me about the OM's house he's in. The OMW has told me about seeing my wife's car at his house. I almost went over there tonight, but my sister talked me out of it. She told me to go home, buy your son some ice cream and watch a movie with him.

One thing I found out about the OM from his wife is that he's a serial cheater. I mean he cheated on his first wife, more than once, and his second wife thinks he cheated on her more than once. My wife picked a good one!

Mr. Wondering, I'm having a very difficult time talking to my wife without love busters. She is full of resentment and hatred because I've been doing a terrific job uncovering the affair and keeping intense pressure on the affair. Meeting my wife's needs is difficult.

Also, I have to admit that I've been asking her to move out. It's so uncomfortable with her around.

HWW