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Well, then plan A better. How are you attempting to meet her ENs? Attempt to engage her in light hearted conversation. Don't talk about the affair anymore unless she is overstepping one of your boundaries. You've done a good job putting pressure on the A, but focus more of your energy at trying to make yourself an attractive partner once this affair is over with. I'd be on the phone every day with my lawyer trying to have him move forward with getting custody, child and spousal support, and getting her out of the house. Other than that, I wouldn't worry about using the stick of plan A directly on her. Let your lawyer use the stick. She'll crash when she starts to feel the consequences.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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Well, then plan A better. How are you attempting to meet her ENs? Attempt to engage her in light hearted conversation. Don't talk about the affair anymore unless she is overstepping one of your boundaries. You've done a good job putting pressure on the A, but focus more of your energy at trying to make yourself an attractive partner once this affair is over with. I'd be on the phone every day with my lawyer trying to have him move forward with getting custody, child and spousal support, and getting her out of the house. Other than that, I wouldn't worry about using the stick of plan A directly on her. Let your lawyer use the stick. She'll crash when she starts to feel the consequences. You know, I don't even know what her needs are any more. I would have said conversation was her most important need, but we haven't been able to have a calm conversation in over three months. I've occassionally given her a gift or two. She's responded strongly to the gift giving on a couple of occassions, but on other occassions she's complained that it's very annoying. I'm definitely taking care of the kids and the house. Overriding all these things is my wife's craving for money and things (financial), and I'm just not in a good position to work on that EN right now. After the divorce, and after custody, then I'll start to work on financial needs. My wife's addiction to the OM is incredibly strong. It's really over the edge. From talking to the OMW, I think the OM may be getting scared of the intensity of my wife's pursuit of him. My wife is crazy! HWW
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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I feel like I'm in Plan B, but we live in the same house; too bizarre.
I'm having a good time bonding with all three of my children.
HWW
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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For the BS's out there, I'm beginning to develop a different picture of my wife. A woman who has for years not been the person I thought she was. It's difficult to express in writing, but it feels like my wife for the last decade has been my worst enemy, and I didn't realize it. I don't know what to do with these new revelations.
For example, my wife has created this horrible impression of me as an abuser and horrible person to her co-workers. She really started doing this after my twins were born some 13 years ago. I haven't been involved in her work (she's kept me shut out of her relationships at work), but recently I've spoken to a number of her co-workers. Man, the picture my wife has painted of me to them for years is incredible. To my wife's co-workers, I'm a horrible human being.
On D-Day, I wanted my wife back in the worst way, but today, I don't think I want her back. Have any of you BS's had these kinds of revelations?
HWW.
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Here's the 180:
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow spouse around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life with or without your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what spouse will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show spouse someone they would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with yur spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 5% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes Wife was gone beginning June 19, then I left with my son for a father son trip and did not return until June 28. I was looking at the above list and realized that upon returning from my trip I've been following everthing on above list. Before the trip, I was different. Before the trip, I was doing a few of the do-not's above. After my trip I definitely did a 180, and I know my wife's noticed because she's commented on it. Can someone tell me how the 180 works on the WS?
Last edited by help_w_wife; 07/11/07 03:48 PM.
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Yes, but it took divorce for me to see it. She is a confused, manipulative woman and one willing to do whatever it takes to get her way. It is sick how she manipulates those around her and I feel sorry for the poor sap she's fooling now.
I see how I've been manipulated and it saddens me and angers me at the same time. It saddens me because the kids have paid the heaviest price. I'm angry because of what I've been tricked into on so many levels. I was talked into letting her keep everything and giving up primary custody because she said doing so would maximize our chances down the road.
I believed it under the emotional state I was in at the time. I never imagined she would say one thing and do quite another.
Just recently she said she would look at certain schools to enroll our daughter. That gave me enough pause to not do anything until I got her opinion. I asked her again about the schools since dealines for enrollment quicly approach and she revealed that she already enrolled our DD in school without ever telling me or involving me in the decision making process.
I'm taking action about this.
Yes, I wanted mine back too, but wouldn't dream of it now. I'm better off single forever than with her.
D-Day 28 Feb 06
Plan D (Not by choice) - 24 March 06
DD6
DS4(Twin1)
DS4(Twin2)
She moved away with the kids April 08. I contested it and got a lot more time with my kids. She's unhappy that I want to stay involved in their lives and don't settle for being an "every other weekend" dad.
Never going to happen.
Ongoing personal recovery through the help of friends, family, and DC United Soccer!
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Can someone explain the 180?
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Posts: 249
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I read on someone else's post that the 180 is not recommended by the Harleys. Does the 180 get away from Plan A or is something else going on?
HWW
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 249
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Posts: 249 |
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Posts: 2,715
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No, the 180 is not outlined in the MB plan(s). At least not in any of the information I've read...if someone has something to the contrary of that, I'd be interesting in seeing it.
180 is a tool from a different system. The Harley's recommend exactly what you've read on the materials on the links on this site. Plan A and plan B are the methods they recommend for rebuilding a marriage from infidelity.
The "180 plan" is basically beginning to withdrawl from your WS. Become cool to them, show little to no interest in them, their drama, etc... Work on yourself, take care of yourself, and no longer allow them to affect you. When you "pull away" from them in this fashion, it often causes them to change their stance and begin pursuing you instead. They begin to feel that 'loss of you' in their lives. They feel (rightfully so) that they're losing the control over you that they have.
I personally think it can be an effective tool, but its not without its risks. Unlike plan B (which is IMMEDIATE, COMPLETE withdrawl from them), this allows your WS to slowly become accustomed to not having you in their lives. It runs the risk of allowing them to become acclimatized to that situation...if your WS has always been an independent person, then the 180 carries a decent risk of ending your marriage rather than recovering it.
Those are my thoughts...others here have more info on it, I'm sure.
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I feel stuck in the mud. I guess I will try to be pleasant, but my wife is always resentful and angry, so talk is useless. I'm withdrawing coincidentally just as the 180 list describes. I'm just taking care of the kids and pushing my attorney to help me get my wife out of the house.
It really feels like my marriage is over.
I have no desire to date, just a strong desire to get my wife out of the house.
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Posts: 4,222
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I have no desire to date, just a strong desire to get my wife out of the house. That is why plan B is so important to protect the remaining love you have left for your spouse. Keep fighting to get her out of the house.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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It really feels like my marriage is over. Except for the very few where the affair immediately ended on D-Day....we ALL felt like this. I, myself, resigned myself to this seeming fact and to the extent I/we could, I determined that I was going to TRY to enjoy my/our last summer as an intact family. I didn't want to have any regrets. I know it's tough to do with a active wayward on the loose....but you can try. I have no desire to date, just a strong desire to get my wife out of the house. Your attorney may be telling this to you as well but don't go too overboard trying to aggressively get her out. She will go eventually or not, likely upon her own inclination. It's not your call and if you press it verbally and legally her attorney COULD attempt to paint you as the bad guy. Trust your attorney. BTW, there have been many cases where the divorcees have to live together right up to the bitter end. It's a disturbing scene but when the fight calls for it we know YOU won't leave and she MAY just be too stubburn to do it. Prepare for the worse. Usually...the one having an affair is soooo addicted to the affair, they find that living at home is just too uncomfortable and interferring with their addiction. They often rationalize and justify a way for them to leave. Very likely...blaming you, their controlling, manipulative, desparate, needy, critical, abusive or whatever husband. Don't mind what she says...Act, Don't React. Mr. Wondering
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MrW. and Jim,
Hi. Thanks for the posts. I think I'm done with exposure for now, what do you all think?
I'm talking to the OMW on a regular basis. I don't think she's interested in reconciling with her husband. He's cheated on her before. She also knows how her husband cheated on his first wife before she met him (she was not the other woman in that situation). She's done it sounds like, which makes this man a very needy man. I'm sure he's going to cling to my wife. After all, he doesn't have a job.
My wife's biggest complaint with me is money, but she's hooked up with this unemployed guy who has to financially support two families; nice one.
My attorney is seeking affidavits from some people who have witnessed my wife's bad behavior with adolescents. Another 2x4 for my wife.
I wish you all could have seen my wife's reaction when I confronted her with a trip she was planning out west with the OM. My wife's mode of operation now is to run to the children and try to create a show that makes it look like I'm pursuing her. What a chicken s**t.
As you can see, I becoming increasingly more resentful of my wife every day. Man I want her gone.
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Posts: 249
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I found out from the OMW that the wife and OM are having trouble. OM told my WW that he wants to date. WW and OM have been arguing.
Wife seems depressed at home.
I think I'm going to go slow. I know she's going to chase him.
HWW
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Posts: 4,222
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All you have to do is outlast her affair, and then you can have her back (under your conditions if you still want her).
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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Wife is snooping on the computer. Guess she doesn't realize that I can see her snooping.
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Posts: 295
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Hi HWW,
Have been following, but can't add anything of substance since I'm new at this. Sounds like the WW A is getting rocky and that OM is getting tired of her. Good for you if you still want to save the M. She'll probably be even more difficult to live with now. Good luck...
Knitgirl
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In my past notes, I described how my wife was routinely taking my clothes up to the attic and tossing them. I put a stop to that, but I never moved all my clothes back to the bedroom. I came home today from working out and found all my clothes back in the master bedroom.
I thought to myself, why would she do this? Frankly, I don't know why and I can't assume it's for any reason other than to manipulate me. But, I went downstairs and simply said thank you for putting my clothes back. I thought to myself, 'in a way I didn't even owe her a thank you'. It didn't feel right to even say thank you. I don't know.
If the WW is hitting a rocky patch with the OM, then that's good, but it's not NC. I've got a long long way to go and I don't think it makes much sense to react much. I'm just going to keep on doing what I've been doing.
I had to remind myself so I read 1 Corinthians 13.
Any other thoughts?
HWW
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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Posts: 249
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hi knitgirl,
difficult, more difficult? Goodness, I hope not. I've gone through at least three ugly, ugly, ugly scenes with my wife; where I listened and didn't love bust but absorbed the most horrible verbal abuse. God it was awful. I tried to calm the situation, but she talked right over me. I tried to let a little time pass, but she went at me in different ways. I tried to change the subject, but she wouldn't let me. She extracted 25 years of accumulated love in just over three hours of this verbal abuse.
Now every time I start thinking of my wife fondly, I just think about those encounters and my empty feelings for her return. I wish I had tape recorded those rantings.
I don't know what she's up to, but I need to be very careful. Plus, she could get a phone call from the OM tomorrow and jump right back into his arms. This is so f****d!!!!!
HWH
Last edited by help_w_wife; 07/14/07 09:13 PM.
D-Day: 3/25/07
Me BS: 47 SAHD
WW: 46 EA PA (filed for divorce 5/30/07)
2 DD and 1 DS 15, 13, 13 (twins)
MOM: W's xboss (filed for 2nd marriage divorce 5/30/07, fired 6/29/07)
OMW: Knows (recovering from cancer)
Divorced April 2008 and happy
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