Hi -

I am new to this thread and the site. I guess most of you will know why I am here. Longhorn has definitely some great words of wisdom and at this time they are very comforting. THANK YOU.

Since I do not yet know hoe to start a new thread with my story, I will post it here seeing the number people on this thread. I need some advice...desperately...

It has been a difficult week for me. I have just found out that my husband of 5 years is having an emotional affair with an old school friend and ex-colleague. I had been having uneasy feelings about this friendship for some time. But never faced it head on until now, thinking that I may be over-reacting, and that there isn't necessarily anything wrong with a friendship.
However, finally and encouraged by a family member who on occasion insinuated that there could be more going on, I began to wonder and observe.

The deciding factor was last Sunday afternoon, while I was spending some time on the computer and I saw that my husband received an sms message to his mobile phone. I normally display the strictest respect to privacy, however, who could be texting on a sunday afternoon on his work phone? I had a hunch. I opened his phone to a cryptic coded message: A?
I did not know what this meant, but whoever sent it knew it would be understood. I took down the sender's telephone number and decided to try calling. I was sure I knew it was her, but I had to try it out. So I called this number in the wee hours of the morning, wanting only to hear the v.mail message. It WAS HER.

She is a old college friend (acquaintance) who ended up working at the same company as my husband for the last 3 years until the month of March 07. She is also married, and has recently had a child who is just over 1 year old.

I was aware that they were occasionally spending time together, coffee encounters and some telephone calls. BUT I was not prepared to find out how much contact they really had.
Over the last week, I consistently surveyed his phone calls (the call register - both incoming and outgoing) and text messages. They were texting coded messages and having 3 -4 daily calls. I also saw that she is one of the last people he calls before going on his business trips, while he is away and when he returns. That was evidence enough. But following the advice of marriage counseling sites, I continued to monitor and log all of these encounters.
He "worked late" on a couple of occasions during the week, and also lied to me about receiving her texts when I would ask him who it was on the spot.
I was shocked, distraught, betrayed, hurt, angry and all the other emotions that one faces upon this situation.
She did not give up. It was constant, continual communication comprehensible only by them...I figured they had agreed on the messages.
I did not know how to bring this up. or how to confront my husband with this. But I also could not keep suffering in silence through this.

Finally, last night, he & I were spending what I thought was a quiet night at home together. While I went to shower, he immediately jumped onto my laptop that I had been using to email. I came down immediately with the hunch that he was reading my private email. HE WAS. He had brought up a message from my drafts folder that I had tentatively written to him (and never sent) back in February about our increasingly distant and strained marriage in the last few months.
This gave me the opportunity that I needed. he accused me of not sharing my feelings with him, and that he had to resort to read my emails in hiding to know how I felt.
That is when I told him we needed to talk. I asked him calmly what "SHE meant to him"? And he was quiet and evasive. I asked him if he was having an affair with her, to which he nervously broke out laughing (not denying nor admitting). I asked him then, why he was keeping this friendship secret. he denied that and I asked him then, what A? meant. He was defensive and said he did not want to talk about that. After much persistence and seriousness, he confessed it meant "Alone?"
Why would she need to know if he was alone? He quickly said..."it's not what you think". he tried to defend his friendship and insinuate that i was coming to wrong conclusions. To which, I confronted him with
all the continued communications throughout the week, and his lying about it.
We have been talking, arguing and discussing when he finally admitted to doing "something wrong", making a mistake, etc, etc...however declined to share it with me, he has not confirmed or told me ANYTHING.
I told him, in order for us to move ahead and work things out he needed to STOP IT IMMEDIATELY. No contact EVER AGAIN. He said he would, he would "take care of it" in time.

We have had challenges like these in the last few years of our marriage. I had a close friendship with someone from my office as well. He was part of a gang of office friends, until I realized that he wanted much more. We flirted and danced, enjoying the new-found attention, but I never felt threatened because I thought it was innocent. I know now - It was wrong. I acknowledged my indiscretion to my husband and stopped it from developing into a full blown affair when I realized that the other party was not really my friend, but there to profit from an opportunity. It has been 1 year since that incident, and I have stopped all contact with this person except for the obligatory hello - goodbye at the office.

As you can see then, I am not in this forum to victimize myself or encourage pity. I understand the very real possibility of these things happening in any relationship. However, I cannot rationalize that I "pushed" or provoked my husband's present affair. They have been "special friends" from day 1 - three years ago. Exchanging personal presents, that never had me in mind. Talking for hours at her house without her husband present, going for coffee on weekends (he would even get out of our bed on an early Sunday morning to go meet her).
I think about all these events now and wonder why I was so blind!

Today he left for a 3 week business trip overseas. And I had to go through the horrible experience of pushing him, and nearly threatening him that i would disclose this to her husband if he did not END IT NOW. He was defensive and protective, and tried to push back, always repeating that he wanted to be a gentleman, do it at his own time. He repeated "what is the difference, now or tomorrow?" Until he realized that I was seriously be capable of confronting her with this.
He angrily hung up the phone 30 mins shy from his departure and said he's call her immediately. He called me back in just a short 10 min later, with a very different "happy tone" almost joking about the matter, saying, "that's it, it's done, no more problem. You should be happy now, I love you and no one else"
I don't know what to make of this. Despite the fact that it temporarily stopped my sobbing, and I felt some relief, I am not convinced that it was that EASY.I don't feel he did what I asked him to, and he has left me in a world of doubt.

She had been texting him frantically over the last few hours, asking for his attention, asking if he was ok, while his phone had been cautiously shut-off to prevent interruptions. I cannot simply believe that he calmly called her while she is with her family, told her that it is all over, that he won't see her anymore, and she said: "OK!" or "I understand." I am afraid, I do not buy this.
When I insisted that he had to end it NOW, he repeatedly refused to end it in my presence, and only succumbed to my pressure when he was not in front of me.
In this same conversation to me, he clearly warned me that he would never forgive me if "I did anything psychotic." I imagine he is referring to approaching her or her husband with this.

PLEASE HELP. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO NEXT.

His actions, and the fact that he has not shed any light on this for me...make me doubt whether it's real or I am imagining things???? He says "there is not much there to END".
Should I trust that he ended it, or is he simply protecting himself once again. What if I am wrong? Am I destroying any chance to "mend things" by doubting him?

ANY ADVICE WILL HELP.

THANK YOU.

India 2005,

Glad piojitos made this thread for you. I can't post during the day, but I'm sure others will help you.

Ace

P.S. Piojitos....just found out that when you try to delete a thread with no posts, it seems to totally disappear! I created one for India a minute after you did, hurried up to delete it and thought it would say "deleted" but it's gone.

Thanks for helping Mishes and India2005. You're fast! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I haven't read this post. I was a busy afternoon and now it is night. I hope someone reads it for India 2005. Goodnight.

Call OWH and makes sure he knows. That way he can monitor the contact from his side. He will not give up OW so easily. It will start back up only more discreetly. Make sure to notify OWH.

Yes, tell other woman's husband what you know. You really can't believe anything your wayward husband says about all this right now as he is still in the fog of the pretend world of the affair. He has been very disrespectful to you and to your marriage. I am sorry to have to say this to you. But you are at a good site to help you through this.

Tell other woman's husband. Your husband will be angry but you need the help of the OW's husband to keep an eye on their behaviors.
Lake

Well it is a new day here and I finally read the post.

I don't care what your husband does or does not do. His actions one way or the other will not dictate what you do with regard to OWH. You have an obligation to tell him. Nothing anyone can say or do will be of much use to you until you do it.

You are correct in your belief that the relationship is not over. They might try to stop - but they won't be able to. Then it will get even more serious.

Now for you. Obviously everyone who has any sense will tell you that you need to change jobs and get away from your affair partner. We have a poster here who did as you are doing and told OM to stay away and all they did was say hello and goodbye - tha is until her OM broke the deal and she came close enough to losing her marriage.

IMO your WH will never be able to trust you and will always have doubts as long as you work where you do.

So my advice is quite simple:

1) Tell OWH about the A immediately. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

2) Get a new job away from your OM.

Now!

THank you for your replies. I appreciate it soo much in a moment where everything is unclear.
I read your posts and I couldn't agree more. I haven't been able to cry b/c of shock factor, and the minute I read this I sobbed.
It's good. Don't feel guilty. I need this dose of reality. He is still unable to face up to this. He has spent 3 hours on the phone and chat with me trying to reassure, etc. etc...
But something in my gut, no matter how much he affirms and insists that it is over, tells me it's not.
He is also under shock. The shock of being found out, and all he is doing is protecting and talking about the future. He cannot even talk about the past and the present. He keeps protecting her & himself. I am going to post his replies to my questions:

WS : i will do whatever it takes to build back
me: I asked you for that one thing
you didn't do it
WS: i called her and ended it
me: how?
what did you say EXACTLY
??
no lies
WS: no lies
i told her that whatever we shared ended right there
me: what is the whatever?
WS: the connection
i am not playing games
she understood
me: she understood???
WS: and she won't engage
me: she was texting you obssessively
and she just understood
after 3 years???
I don't buy it
WS: she understood that nothing will get in between you and me
me: right
she already got in btwn
she can do it again
WS: no
not from my side
me: she barged
she intruded
and you let her
WS: she can do whatever she wants i WILL not let anything touch us
me: how involved is she?/
did you have sex?
WS: no
me: what does she know?
about us?
WS: i have a feeling that no matter what i do or offer will not satisfy you
am i right?
me: no
i asked you for one thing
only
WS: i think i need to cut this trip short
and come back to take care of business
me: you should have done that when i asked you
why didnt you do it?
this is what you did instead: you shutoff your phone
WS: because it was embarrassing
me: to avoid
i am your wife
and I love you
how is that embarrassing?
what is the connection you had?
WS: well right now not sure if love is talking
me: no it is anger and disappointment
WS: you are angry
me: did she hope you'd be together?
WS: come on India
me: i need to know
WS: NO
WS: i feel that nothing i saw now will put perspective on the issue. you are angry/disappointed
WS: i may have vented some frustration....not sure about the intimacy of our bond
what do you mean

I am sorry to air this out like this...I am hoping that it can help someone else to recognize the lines...the lies...

He is in denial of having been caught. Like one of the answers said: he is in a fog!

If anyone has comments on this exchange, please let me know. I am still searching for reality since he will not give it to me.
THANKS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have no need to comment on the exchange. All he is doing is lying to try to keep you from exposing his affair. Why would he want you to not expose it? Because he knows he can control you but cannot control OWH. He knows it would kill the A.

Let him come back. Let him work on the M.

But expose to OWH today. I won't offer you any more advice until you do that one thing. I know you are afraid. You don't need to be. Fear will move you to inaction. Conquer your fear and tell OWH all that you know.

Do you want your M? Then expose.

Are you willing to lose your M? Stay silent and believe all the crap your lying WH is telling you.

India,

Piojitos is right. Nothing anyone says will do any good until you expose to OWH.

Ace

Hi there everybody,
I can only keep saying thank you again & again. I appreciate all the good advice. It's hard to hear and to face, but also healing.
I think it's hitting me now. It's becoming real to me as well. But mostly though your support. H is not helping v much as he is most def in denial. Still protecting OW & "whatever" they had.
Piojitos has told me what to do next. It is something that i have known since the beginning. I am mustering up the courage to do it. I have called my therapist to see if she can see me to deal w all this. I am still afraid & insecure.
I have obtained OWH email & will contact him soon. I have been rehearsing the conversation in my mind over & over.

Is there anything else I should prepare myself for?

I must also confess that 2 days ago, while I was still in shock, I sent OW a msg (from an address where she can't reach me back) telling her I KNOW & to STOP ALL CONTACT NOW.

Don't know if it was the right thing to do, but I needed to.

I am on an emotional rollercoaster esp. cos H is so far away and not here to support me through this.

I know Piojitos said he wouldn't reply until I had done what I need to do, but if anybody has any advice, I could use it. Feel like I am trapped in the rabbithole!

Good eve to all.
India

I'm not one of the experts but I think it was okay that you sent that message. It is also good, in my opinion that she cannot respond back to you. OW always come up with rationalizations about how you are really small minded or just don't understand your man or they weren't doing anything wrong or you are just jealous, blah, blah, blah, etc. They are definitely not worth listening to.

What are you in counseling for?

Your H needs to write a no contact letter that he shows to you that you approve and then together you send it to other woman--to the point: "My wife and family do not deserve what I have done, I want to end this relationship and I ask you to also never contact me."

There is a no contact sample letter that you can complete a search for. It should not say "i'm sorry to do this to you" or "it was really fun, but has to end" It is all about respecting the M and the R. If he is still protecting her, he is in the affair fog still.

Tell him there is only room for 2 people in your marriage, not 3. Secrets from you are not part of a marriage. If he is protecting her, he is keeping secrets from you and disrespecting your relationship. Try to stay calm when you talk to him. But the feeling of panic is completely normal.

Many therapists do not follow MB principals. Will yours?
Lake

Lake53
Thanx. Very wise advice. By the way, since I am new to this, what does DSs and all the numbers mean?
I think the no contact letter is a great idea. I have asked him time & again that I need proof that it is over and that there will be no more contact.
I am sure there still is. Did you read the chatting that I posted? To me, it sounds like BS. I can't understand how she can just accept it being over just like that after so long. And they were not going to stop, I just rained on their parade by finding out. He stills portrays her as accepting, and very understanding to me...it infuriates me! especially b/c he repeats to me that he turned to her for "understanding and sympathy". He is still protecting her. And he is pushing for us to just move forward b/c he is protecting himself, not wanting to face up to the damage he has caused.
Also, what is the dignificance of him saying that he is sorry for what he has done to me? He keeps saying that to me.
I haven't read your story Lake, but I sincerely hope that things are going better for you & H. Never imagined how awful this is. I guess after this we are all "recovering".
To answer your question, my counselor especializes in FAMILY therapy. I don't go to counseling consistently, I have been during in few occasions when I had some personal challenges to work through. We also went for some time as a couple 3 years ago when we had some couple issues (he had lost his job, and it had affected our relationship).
Again THANKS,
India

All BS's fear when they learn of the A. Many fear there is never any chance they could love their spouse again and simply divorce.

Other BS's (like you and me) still love their spouses. We also fear. It paralyzes us. Our entire belief system - entire world - has just crumbled around us. Everything we thought was true has been proven wrong. The one person on this earth that we trusted the most has ripped our heart from our chest and we watch its final beats in disbelief and horror.

We are afraid. We are afraid of losing our spouse. We are afraid of potentially facing a new life for which we have never prepared ourselves. A life full of unknowns and nobody to share it with. We are afraid of this new change being forced upon us and the fact that we now have to face it by ourselves without the support of our mate. We negotiate with ourselves. We try to reinvent ourselves and our lives to find some way to allow this permutation and remain married. It is both real and surreal at the same time. We ask ourselves if we simply didn't misunderstand. There must be a logical explanation for all this and somehow we got it wrong. WS is going to come home and explain this in a way that all makes sense and our world will go on as it was before.

But it cannot be done. Are you willing to allow your H's relationship to continue with this woman and remain married to you? Are you willing to share? Are you willing to lose him completely to her as their relationship grows and your dwindles? Because those are the only two possible outcomes of their continued affair.

You want him to wake up, recognize the error of his ways, leave OW and come running back to you. Can it happen? Yes. But the odds are very much against it.

What can save your marriage? Killing the affair. How do you kill an A? Expose expose expose.

Fear is your biggest obstacle. You are your own worst enemy right now. Overcome your fear. Face it and defeat it. I was afraid. I was afraid exposing my WW's A would drive her from me. It did piss her off but it also killed the affair. After the dust settled, the affair was no longer fun and exciting. The affair became dirty and shameful for her.

If you do not expose this A, you are enabling the A. You are tacitly telling your H that it's okay to cheat as long as he comes home at night and takes care of you. By exposing, you are drawing the boundary and clearly defining what you will allow and what you will not.

I know you're afraid. Your fear, if allowed to control you, will destroy your marriage. It's okay to be afraid. We all are or were. But what are you afraid of? I'll repeat myself. If you are afraid of losing your H, well that ship has sailed. You've already lost him. His body may be under your roof but his heart is somewhere else and it won't take long for his body to go find his heart.

Nobody here is giving up on you but there is not much additional advice that will mean anything until you expose this A. Are you afraid that exposing to OWH might cause them to divorce thereby making OW available to your H? If this A continues, that will likely happen anyway.

I have three sons, they are now ages 13, 15, and 17--need to update their ages.

Who can tell what the words mean that your H is telling you right now. At this early stage of the discovery game, my H was attempting to downplay the EA and literally deny that anything had happened at all. He was in self-protection mode. I was still in stunned mode. Shortly after that I began to try to analyze everything. Looking back, I feel that I was trying to find some way to undo the EA, just to find something that would magically undo the relationship so that it never happened. I also began trying to figure out every little thing I could about the EA and also looked to see if I could find any evidence that it went physical beyond just the physical meeting that he had with her at a coffee shop. After all, I caught him in lies, so what else was he lying to me about?

He is saying he is sorry. Who knows what that means, he is sorry he got caught, he is sorry for causing you the pain he sees on your face and hears in your voice. Too bad he is still defending OW. Any woman who would text a married man with a code of "A?" is very complicit in self-centered, disrespectful behavior. That he is still protecting her means that he is still emotionally involved with her. Exposure will help you keep track of whether or not they are in contact with each other as her H will be keeping an eye on her.
Lake

Lake,
Thanks again & again. I don't know what I would have done, had I not found this site. It doesn't change the feelings, but it helps work them out and understand a beast that you have no idea about. No body prepares themselves for this. Although I feel now, that I should have never trusted.

It is uncanny, my H used to always say he was going "for coffee" with her. Maybe it is code for something else again?
I am also still in the discovery stage, looking for evidence that there was/is more than he is telling me. But whether we find that proof or not, we know deep down that it exists. Like you said, there is evidence of lying, even after being caught.

You are right. She & H shared a v complicity that will not be easy to break. One of the things he wrote to me during our chat was that she "understood nothing would ever get in between us" when he told her (supposedly) that it was over. Lies. That is him talking, and he is lying. He cannot know what she understands or doesn't (again painting her like the most reasonable and understanding person in the world). How can he be so sure of everything? He is only trying to convince me and himself that it is like that. But may not be reality.

I am in pain. I have so many question that I would like answered and yet I don't want to ask him anymore b/c he is not telling me the truth. I want to ask him: why things didn't end before? Had I not caught them, this would still be going on...why?...what's the explanation? We were happy. No arguments, planning trips and future. There is no possible explanation except, he formed a strong enough bond with her that lasted 3 years.

How do I get over that betrayal is beyond me?

Lake, I am sorry to hear that you have 3 sons only because this must have caused them a lot of pain as well. I grew up in a family were my father's infidelity was commonplace and saw my mother suffering. That is what hurts the kids, the pain of seeing their parents suffer without being able to do anything. A child would like to take all that away, and they end up being hurt as well b/c no matter what they do, it will not go away.

I will expose. If he ends up knowing, that will mean that they are still in touch. And the NC was broken. I am certainly v afraid of that b/c haven't prepared myself for more betrayal.

Best of luck to you as well.
India

PS - does anybody know how to break into a gmail account? Sounds awfully contrived on my part, but I know she has an account there as well, and I am sure chatting is going on.

Hi everyone, if anybody is there...

Another day of pain has gone by. There have been some developments as well.

He called me today and told me he wanted to know how I was doing. I told him "not good." The argument was inevitable. He continued to pressure me and say that he could not go through this process over and over again & rehash. When I told reproached him that he had betrayed me once again by not ending it in front of me before he left, he repeated that it was over. I told him he still has to do that to respect our M. Make it clear, offer proof.

I then asked him right out if she had tried to contact him ( he had promised he would tell me if that happens). There was silence and then he said yes, that she had texted him with: HELLO? And reassured me that he had ignored it.

I also caught him in another lie regarding CHAT on gmail.
SO. He is still lying and he LIED when he told me that he had called her & ended it. She wouldn't text him that if that was the case.

How much longer will this keep going? It has only been 2 days and NC has already been broken.

I want to expose. I have some questions though. What if the OWH does not want to engage? what should I tell him? Should I encourage him to confront OW? Do I offer help in exposing this? Do I tell him to just keep it quiet & monitor her activities? I am not sure how to handle.

I am also not sure how to handle husband. Do I encourage him to work things out? Do I thank him for telling me? Do I reassure he is doing the right thing, even tho he cannot be trusted b/c even tho he conceeded that they are all lies or half truths?

I need help.
THANX

One of the things he wrote to me during our chat was that she "understood nothing would ever get in between us"

Hopefully, he will come to understand that the very acts of secrecy and intimacy with OW were in and of itself the very essence of getting in between you and your H.

We kept most of what was going on between us away from the boys for months. The oldest knew that something was up and he was on alert mode. I explained some things to him after a few months had past and I had some perspective on it all. The youngest just asked me a few weeks ago what was going on between me and H. I explained some of it using mostly past tense and assuring him that people make mistakes and can work things out. He was aware that H and I had been verbally fighting (me expressing anger at times) and it was unusual to him so he thought something had happened. The middle son has special needs and has not been too much affected.

I can't imagine that there is any way of getting into her Yahoo account, but you can probably access H's e-mail account--right?

When are you going to expose to OW's H?

Three years is a long time for an EA to go on. It often takes a couple years to get through the worst of the bad feelings for the blameless spouse, so hang on and hang in there--it's a bumpy ride.

I had the exact feelings about the fact that if I had not discovered the EA, it would have likely continued on for who knows how long--would not have ended.

Affairs are described to be like an addictive drug. They supply the body with endorphins and people just want to keep getting that good feeling that they get from the pretend fantasy world of the A.

Exposure helps to put an end to the fantasy world of the A because it brings it out into the light of day--and forces the wayward to look at it in all its ugliness and as it is seen by loved ones such as spouse, parents, siblings close friends, etc.

I was fortunate that I caught on after the EA had lasted only a month. H looks at his past behavior now with great remorse. We are doing better all the time--fewer rough spots. I did not have to expose to anyone as H wrote the NC letter a few days after D day. OW was twice divorced and had just moved out from her most recent "friends" home before my H started writing to her--or at least that is what she told him.
Lake

Hi Lake
THanx for your post.
Did you pressure you H into writing that letter? Or did he offer it on his own?
Should I tell H that I am going to expose it to OWH?

By the way, my advice is take care of your children regarding this. Your youngest, and probably all of them know a lot more than you imagine about this.
My sister and I were used tolisten to the awful fights in hiding. And it hurt a lot. You H should talk to them and tell them that he hurt you & the family but is working it out and will never hurt YOU again.

Thanks, and take care.
India

Do not tell your H that you are going to expose to OWH. That would just give them an opportunity to spin the story and make you appear paranoid, etc. All MBers are in agreement on this point. Also, get a list together of people who can help you and who care about your M. Then expose the EA to all of them in one fell swoop. Let them know that you want to keep your marriage and re-build it and that is why you are contacting them with this information. You are looking for their support to help you build your marriage.

RE my children, We are working with them each according to their need. Our discord did not last long--no fighting going on for several months now. The youngest does have needs outside of our marriage conflict that we are working on. The oldest is an amazing young man and very close to me. He is just glad that I am feeling ok and does not want to know any more about it all--I think he is glad to know what he does know, but he is satisfied with current status. The middle guy always requires our time and attention and he is well loved by all because he is such a hard worker considering his abilities in certain areas.
Lake

Well said, Lake.

I haven't been able to read all posts on this thread, but regarding exposure, have as much undisputable proof (hard copies, handwritten notes/envelopes--if possible, phone records, etc.) before you expose to OPS.

You may need it, but as in my case, you may not. OWH did not even seem to care, but our delayed exposure helped me rebuild trust in my H.

My H's OW was (and probably still is) in denial about their 'indiscretion' being an affair since it was "only an EA". The attached lying and deception are destructive short term and long term. Lake's was a month, mine was 6 months, yours, India much longer. Either way, exposing with rock-solid proof will help you end the A and begin recovery.

Ace