Hi -

I am new to this thread and the site. I guess most of you will know why I am here. Longhorn has definitely some great words of wisdom and at this time they are very comforting. THANK YOU.

Since I do not yet know hoe to start a new thread with my story, I will post it here seeing the number people on this thread. I need some advice...desperately...

It has been a difficult week for me. I have just found out that my husband of 5 years is having an emotional affair with an old school friend and ex-colleague. I had been having uneasy feelings about this friendship for some time. But never faced it head on until now, thinking that I may be over-reacting, and that there isn't necessarily anything wrong with a friendship.
However, finally and encouraged by a family member who on occasion insinuated that there could be more going on, I began to wonder and observe.

The deciding factor was last Sunday afternoon, while I was spending some time on the computer and I saw that my husband received an sms message to his mobile phone. I normally display the strictest respect to privacy, however, who could be texting on a sunday afternoon on his work phone? I had a hunch. I opened his phone to a cryptic coded message: A?
I did not know what this meant, but whoever sent it knew it would be understood. I took down the sender's telephone number and decided to try calling. I was sure I knew it was her, but I had to try it out. So I called this number in the wee hours of the morning, wanting only to hear the v.mail message. It WAS HER.

She is a old college friend (acquaintance) who ended up working at the same company as my husband for the last 3 years until the month of March 07. She is also married, and has recently had a child who is just over 1 year old.

I was aware that they were occasionally spending time together, coffee encounters and some telephone calls. BUT I was not prepared to find out how much contact they really had.
Over the last week, I consistently surveyed his phone calls (the call register - both incoming and outgoing) and text messages. They were texting coded messages and having 3 -4 daily calls. I also saw that she is one of the last people he calls before going on his business trips, while he is away and when he returns. That was evidence enough. But following the advice of marriage counseling sites, I continued to monitor and log all of these encounters.
He "worked late" on a couple of occasions during the week, and also lied to me about receiving her texts when I would ask him who it was on the spot.
I was shocked, distraught, betrayed, hurt, angry and all the other emotions that one faces upon this situation.
She did not give up. It was constant, continual communication comprehensible only by them...I figured they had agreed on the messages.
I did not know how to bring this up. or how to confront my husband with this. But I also could not keep suffering in silence through this.

Finally, last night, he & I were spending what I thought was a quiet night at home together. While I went to shower, he immediately jumped onto my laptop that I had been using to email. I came down immediately with the hunch that he was reading my private email. HE WAS. He had brought up a message from my drafts folder that I had tentatively written to him (and never sent) back in February about our increasingly distant and strained marriage in the last few months.
This gave me the opportunity that I needed. he accused me of not sharing my feelings with him, and that he had to resort to read my emails in hiding to know how I felt.
That is when I told him we needed to talk. I asked him calmly what "SHE meant to him"? And he was quiet and evasive. I asked him if he was having an affair with her, to which he nervously broke out laughing (not denying nor admitting). I asked him then, why he was keeping this friendship secret. he denied that and I asked him then, what A? meant. He was defensive and said he did not want to talk about that. After much persistence and seriousness, he confessed it meant "Alone?"
Why would she need to know if he was alone? He quickly said..."it's not what you think". he tried to defend his friendship and insinuate that i was coming to wrong conclusions. To which, I confronted him with
all the continued communications throughout the week, and his lying about it.
We have been talking, arguing and discussing when he finally admitted to doing "something wrong", making a mistake, etc, etc...however declined to share it with me, he has not confirmed or told me ANYTHING.
I told him, in order for us to move ahead and work things out he needed to STOP IT IMMEDIATELY. No contact EVER AGAIN. He said he would, he would "take care of it" in time.

We have had challenges like these in the last few years of our marriage. I had a close friendship with someone from my office as well. He was part of a gang of office friends, until I realized that he wanted much more. We flirted and danced, enjoying the new-found attention, but I never felt threatened because I thought it was innocent. I know now - It was wrong. I acknowledged my indiscretion to my husband and stopped it from developing into a full blown affair when I realized that the other party was not really my friend, but there to profit from an opportunity. It has been 1 year since that incident, and I have stopped all contact with this person except for the obligatory hello - goodbye at the office.

As you can see then, I am not in this forum to victimize myself or encourage pity. I understand the very real possibility of these things happening in any relationship. However, I cannot rationalize that I "pushed" or provoked my husband's present affair. They have been "special friends" from day 1 - three years ago. Exchanging personal presents, that never had me in mind. Talking for hours at her house without her husband present, going for coffee on weekends (he would even get out of our bed on an early Sunday morning to go meet her).
I think about all these events now and wonder why I was so blind!

Today he left for a 3 week business trip overseas. And I had to go through the horrible experience of pushing him, and nearly threatening him that i would disclose this to her husband if he did not END IT NOW. He was defensive and protective, and tried to push back, always repeating that he wanted to be a gentleman, do it at his own time. He repeated "what is the difference, now or tomorrow?" Until he realized that I was seriously be capable of confronting her with this.
He angrily hung up the phone 30 mins shy from his departure and said he's call her immediately. He called me back in just a short 10 min later, with a very different "happy tone" almost joking about the matter, saying, "that's it, it's done, no more problem. You should be happy now, I love you and no one else"
I don't know what to make of this. Despite the fact that it temporarily stopped my sobbing, and I felt some relief, I am not convinced that it was that EASY.I don't feel he did what I asked him to, and he has left me in a world of doubt.

She had been texting him frantically over the last few hours, asking for his attention, asking if he was ok, while his phone had been cautiously shut-off to prevent interruptions. I cannot simply believe that he calmly called her while she is with her family, told her that it is all over, that he won't see her anymore, and she said: "OK!" or "I understand." I am afraid, I do not buy this.
When I insisted that he had to end it NOW, he repeatedly refused to end it in my presence, and only succumbed to my pressure when he was not in front of me.
In this same conversation to me, he clearly warned me that he would never forgive me if "I did anything psychotic." I imagine he is referring to approaching her or her husband with this.

PLEASE HELP. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO NEXT.

His actions, and the fact that he has not shed any light on this for me...make me doubt whether it's real or I am imagining things???? He says "there is not much there to END".
Should I trust that he ended it, or is he simply protecting himself once again. What if I am wrong? Am I destroying any chance to "mend things" by doubting him?

ANY ADVICE WILL HELP.

THANK YOU.

India 2005,

Glad piojitos made this thread for you. I can't post during the day, but I'm sure others will help you.

Ace

P.S. Piojitos....just found out that when you try to delete a thread with no posts, it seems to totally disappear! I created one for India a minute after you did, hurried up to delete it and thought it would say "deleted" but it's gone.

Thanks for helping Mishes and India2005. You're fast! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I haven't read this post. I was a busy afternoon and now it is night. I hope someone reads it for India 2005. Goodnight.

Call OWH and makes sure he knows. That way he can monitor the contact from his side. He will not give up OW so easily. It will start back up only more discreetly. Make sure to notify OWH.

Yes, tell other woman's husband what you know. You really can't believe anything your wayward husband says about all this right now as he is still in the fog of the pretend world of the affair. He has been very disrespectful to you and to your marriage. I am sorry to have to say this to you. But you are at a good site to help you through this.

Tell other woman's husband. Your husband will be angry but you need the help of the OW's husband to keep an eye on their behaviors.
Lake

Well it is a new day here and I finally read the post.

I don't care what your husband does or does not do. His actions one way or the other will not dictate what you do with regard to OWH. You have an obligation to tell him. Nothing anyone can say or do will be of much use to you until you do it.

You are correct in your belief that the relationship is not over. They might try to stop - but they won't be able to. Then it will get even more serious.

Now for you. Obviously everyone who has any sense will tell you that you need to change jobs and get away from your affair partner. We have a poster here who did as you are doing and told OM to stay away and all they did was say hello and goodbye - tha is until her OM broke the deal and she came close enough to losing her marriage.

IMO your WH will never be able to trust you and will always have doubts as long as you work where you do.

So my advice is quite simple:

1) Tell OWH about the A immediately. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

2) Get a new job away from your OM.

Now!

THank you for your replies. I appreciate it soo much in a moment where everything is unclear.
I read your posts and I couldn't agree more. I haven't been able to cry b/c of shock factor, and the minute I read this I sobbed.
It's good. Don't feel guilty. I need this dose of reality. He is still unable to face up to this. He has spent 3 hours on the phone and chat with me trying to reassure, etc. etc...
But something in my gut, no matter how much he affirms and insists that it is over, tells me it's not.
He is also under shock. The shock of being found out, and all he is doing is protecting and talking about the future. He cannot even talk about the past and the present. He keeps protecting her & himself. I am going to post his replies to my questions:

WS : i will do whatever it takes to build back
me: I asked you for that one thing
you didn't do it
WS: i called her and ended it
me: how?
what did you say EXACTLY
??
no lies
WS: no lies
i told her that whatever we shared ended right there
me: what is the whatever?
WS: the connection
i am not playing games
she understood
me: she understood???
WS: and she won't engage
me: she was texting you obssessively
and she just understood
after 3 years???
I don't buy it
WS: she understood that nothing will get in between you and me
me: right
she already got in btwn
she can do it again
WS: no
not from my side
me: she barged
she intruded
and you let her
WS: she can do whatever she wants i WILL not let anything touch us
me: how involved is she?/
did you have sex?
WS: no
me: what does she know?
about us?
WS: i have a feeling that no matter what i do or offer will not satisfy you
am i right?
me: no
i asked you for one thing
only
WS: i think i need to cut this trip short
and come back to take care of business
me: you should have done that when i asked you
why didnt you do it?
this is what you did instead: you shutoff your phone
WS: because it was embarrassing
me: to avoid
i am your wife
and I love you
how is that embarrassing?
what is the connection you had?
WS: well right now not sure if love is talking
me: no it is anger and disappointment
WS: you are angry
me: did she hope you'd be together?
WS: come on India
me: i need to know
WS: NO
WS: i feel that nothing i saw now will put perspective on the issue. you are angry/disappointed
WS: i may have vented some frustration....not sure about the intimacy of our bond
what do you mean

I am sorry to air this out like this...I am hoping that it can help someone else to recognize the lines...the lies...

He is in denial of having been caught. Like one of the answers said: he is in a fog!

If anyone has comments on this exchange, please let me know. I am still searching for reality since he will not give it to me.
THANKS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have no need to comment on the exchange. All he is doing is lying to try to keep you from exposing his affair. Why would he want you to not expose it? Because he knows he can control you but cannot control OWH. He knows it would kill the A.

Let him come back. Let him work on the M.

But expose to OWH today. I won't offer you any more advice until you do that one thing. I know you are afraid. You don't need to be. Fear will move you to inaction. Conquer your fear and tell OWH all that you know.

Do you want your M? Then expose.

Are you willing to lose your M? Stay silent and believe all the crap your lying WH is telling you.

India,

Piojitos is right. Nothing anyone says will do any good until you expose to OWH.

Ace

Hi there everybody,
I can only keep saying thank you again & again. I appreciate all the good advice. It's hard to hear and to face, but also healing.
I think it's hitting me now. It's becoming real to me as well. But mostly though your support. H is not helping v much as he is most def in denial. Still protecting OW & "whatever" they had.
Piojitos has told me what to do next. It is something that i have known since the beginning. I am mustering up the courage to do it. I have called my therapist to see if she can see me to deal w all this. I am still afraid & insecure.
I have obtained OWH email & will contact him soon. I have been rehearsing the conversation in my mind over & over.

Is there anything else I should prepare myself for?

I must also confess that 2 days ago, while I was still in shock, I sent OW a msg (from an address where she can't reach me back) telling her I KNOW & to STOP ALL CONTACT NOW.

Don't know if it was the right thing to do, but I needed to.

I am on an emotional rollercoaster esp. cos H is so far away and not here to support me through this.

I know Piojitos said he wouldn't reply until I had done what I need to do, but if anybody has any advice, I could use it. Feel like I am trapped in the rabbithole!

Good eve to all.
India

I'm not one of the experts but I think it was okay that you sent that message. It is also good, in my opinion that she cannot respond back to you. OW always come up with rationalizations about how you are really small minded or just don't understand your man or they weren't doing anything wrong or you are just jealous, blah, blah, blah, etc. They are definitely not worth listening to.

What are you in counseling for?

Your H needs to write a no contact letter that he shows to you that you approve and then together you send it to other woman--to the point: "My wife and family do not deserve what I have done, I want to end this relationship and I ask you to also never contact me."

There is a no contact sample letter that you can complete a search for. It should not say "i'm sorry to do this to you" or "it was really fun, but has to end" It is all about respecting the M and the R. If he is still protecting her, he is in the affair fog still.

Tell him there is only room for 2 people in your marriage, not 3. Secrets from you are not part of a marriage. If he is protecting her, he is keeping secrets from you and disrespecting your relationship. Try to stay calm when you talk to him. But the feeling of panic is completely normal.

Many therapists do not follow MB principals. Will yours?
Lake

Lake53
Thanx. Very wise advice. By the way, since I am new to this, what does DSs and all the numbers mean?
I think the no contact letter is a great idea. I have asked him time & again that I need proof that it is over and that there will be no more contact.
I am sure there still is. Did you read the chatting that I posted? To me, it sounds like BS. I can't understand how she can just accept it being over just like that after so long. And they were not going to stop, I just rained on their parade by finding out. He stills portrays her as accepting, and very understanding to me...it infuriates me! especially b/c he repeats to me that he turned to her for "understanding and sympathy". He is still protecting her. And he is pushing for us to just move forward b/c he is protecting himself, not wanting to face up to the damage he has caused.
Also, what is the dignificance of him saying that he is sorry for what he has done to me? He keeps saying that to me.
I haven't read your story Lake, but I sincerely hope that things are going better for you & H. Never imagined how awful this is. I guess after this we are all "recovering".
To answer your question, my counselor especializes in FAMILY therapy. I don't go to counseling consistently, I have been during in few occasions when I had some personal challenges to work through. We also went for some time as a couple 3 years ago when we had some couple issues (he had lost his job, and it had affected our relationship).
Again THANKS,
India

All BS's fear when they learn of the A. Many fear there is never any chance they could love their spouse again and simply divorce.

Other BS's (like you and me) still love their spouses. We also fear. It paralyzes us. Our entire belief system - entire world - has just crumbled around us. Everything we thought was true has been proven wrong. The one person on this earth that we trusted the most has ripped our heart from our chest and we watch its final beats in disbelief and horror.

We are afraid. We are afraid of losing our spouse. We are afraid of potentially facing a new life for which we have never prepared ourselves. A life full of unknowns and nobody to share it with. We are afraid of this new change being forced upon us and the fact that we now have to face it by ourselves without the support of our mate. We negotiate with ourselves. We try to reinvent ourselves and our lives to find some way to allow this permutation and remain married. It is both real and surreal at the same time. We ask ourselves if we simply didn't misunderstand. There must be a logical explanation for all this and somehow we got it wrong. WS is going to come home and explain this in a way that all makes sense and our world will go on as it was before.

But it cannot be done. Are you willing to allow your H's relationship to continue with this woman and remain married to you? Are you willing to share? Are you willing to lose him completely to her as their relationship grows and your dwindles? Because those are the only two possible outcomes of their continued affair.

You want him to wake up, recognize the error of his ways, leave OW and come running back to you. Can it happen? Yes. But the odds are very much against it.

What can save your marriage? Killing the affair. How do you kill an A? Expose expose expose.

Fear is your biggest obstacle. You are your own worst enemy right now. Overcome your fear. Face it and defeat it. I was afraid. I was afraid exposing my WW's A would drive her from me. It did piss her off but it also killed the affair. After the dust settled, the affair was no longer fun and exciting. The affair became dirty and shameful for her.

If you do not expose this A, you are enabling the A. You are tacitly telling your H that it's okay to cheat as long as he comes home at night and takes care of you. By exposing, you are drawing the boundary and clearly defining what you will allow and what you will not.

I know you're afraid. Your fear, if allowed to control you, will destroy your marriage. It's okay to be afraid. We all are or were. But what are you afraid of? I'll repeat myself. If you are afraid of losing your H, well that ship has sailed. You've already lost him. His body may be under your roof but his heart is somewhere else and it won't take long for his body to go find his heart.

Nobody here is giving up on you but there is not much additional advice that will mean anything until you expose this A. Are you afraid that exposing to OWH might cause them to divorce thereby making OW available to your H? If this A continues, that will likely happen anyway.

I have three sons, they are now ages 13, 15, and 17--need to update their ages.

Who can tell what the words mean that your H is telling you right now. At this early stage of the discovery game, my H was attempting to downplay the EA and literally deny that anything had happened at all. He was in self-protection mode. I was still in stunned mode. Shortly after that I began to try to analyze everything. Looking back, I feel that I was trying to find some way to undo the EA, just to find something that would magically undo the relationship so that it never happened. I also began trying to figure out every little thing I could about the EA and also looked to see if I could find any evidence that it went physical beyond just the physical meeting that he had with her at a coffee shop. After all, I caught him in lies, so what else was he lying to me about?

He is saying he is sorry. Who knows what that means, he is sorry he got caught, he is sorry for causing you the pain he sees on your face and hears in your voice. Too bad he is still defending OW. Any woman who would text a married man with a code of "A?" is very complicit in self-centered, disrespectful behavior. That he is still protecting her means that he is still emotionally involved with her. Exposure will help you keep track of whether or not they are in contact with each other as her H will be keeping an eye on her.
Lake

Lake,
Thanks again & again. I don't know what I would have done, had I not found this site. It doesn't change the feelings, but it helps work them out and understand a beast that you have no idea about. No body prepares themselves for this. Although I feel now, that I should have never trusted.

It is uncanny, my H used to always say he was going "for coffee" with her. Maybe it is code for something else again?
I am also still in the discovery stage, looking for evidence that there was/is more than he is telling me. But whether we find that proof or not, we know deep down that it exists. Like you said, there is evidence of lying, even after being caught.

You are right. She & H shared a v complicity that will not be easy to break. One of the things he wrote to me during our chat was that she "understood nothing would ever get in between us" when he told her (supposedly) that it was over. Lies. That is him talking, and he is lying. He cannot know what she understands or doesn't (again painting her like the most reasonable and understanding person in the world). How can he be so sure of everything? He is only trying to convince me and himself that it is like that. But may not be reality.

I am in pain. I have so many question that I would like answered and yet I don't want to ask him anymore b/c he is not telling me the truth. I want to ask him: why things didn't end before? Had I not caught them, this would still be going on...why?...what's the explanation? We were happy. No arguments, planning trips and future. There is no possible explanation except, he formed a strong enough bond with her that lasted 3 years.

How do I get over that betrayal is beyond me?

Lake, I am sorry to hear that you have 3 sons only because this must have caused them a lot of pain as well. I grew up in a family were my father's infidelity was commonplace and saw my mother suffering. That is what hurts the kids, the pain of seeing their parents suffer without being able to do anything. A child would like to take all that away, and they end up being hurt as well b/c no matter what they do, it will not go away.

I will expose. If he ends up knowing, that will mean that they are still in touch. And the NC was broken. I am certainly v afraid of that b/c haven't prepared myself for more betrayal.

Best of luck to you as well.
India

PS - does anybody know how to break into a gmail account? Sounds awfully contrived on my part, but I know she has an account there as well, and I am sure chatting is going on.

Hi everyone, if anybody is there...

Another day of pain has gone by. There have been some developments as well.

He called me today and told me he wanted to know how I was doing. I told him "not good." The argument was inevitable. He continued to pressure me and say that he could not go through this process over and over again & rehash. When I told reproached him that he had betrayed me once again by not ending it in front of me before he left, he repeated that it was over. I told him he still has to do that to respect our M. Make it clear, offer proof.

I then asked him right out if she had tried to contact him ( he had promised he would tell me if that happens). There was silence and then he said yes, that she had texted him with: HELLO? And reassured me that he had ignored it.

I also caught him in another lie regarding CHAT on gmail.
SO. He is still lying and he LIED when he told me that he had called her & ended it. She wouldn't text him that if that was the case.

How much longer will this keep going? It has only been 2 days and NC has already been broken.

I want to expose. I have some questions though. What if the OWH does not want to engage? what should I tell him? Should I encourage him to confront OW? Do I offer help in exposing this? Do I tell him to just keep it quiet & monitor her activities? I am not sure how to handle.

I am also not sure how to handle husband. Do I encourage him to work things out? Do I thank him for telling me? Do I reassure he is doing the right thing, even tho he cannot be trusted b/c even tho he conceeded that they are all lies or half truths?

I need help.
THANX

One of the things he wrote to me during our chat was that she "understood nothing would ever get in between us"

Hopefully, he will come to understand that the very acts of secrecy and intimacy with OW were in and of itself the very essence of getting in between you and your H.

We kept most of what was going on between us away from the boys for months. The oldest knew that something was up and he was on alert mode. I explained some things to him after a few months had past and I had some perspective on it all. The youngest just asked me a few weeks ago what was going on between me and H. I explained some of it using mostly past tense and assuring him that people make mistakes and can work things out. He was aware that H and I had been verbally fighting (me expressing anger at times) and it was unusual to him so he thought something had happened. The middle son has special needs and has not been too much affected.

I can't imagine that there is any way of getting into her Yahoo account, but you can probably access H's e-mail account--right?

When are you going to expose to OW's H?

Three years is a long time for an EA to go on. It often takes a couple years to get through the worst of the bad feelings for the blameless spouse, so hang on and hang in there--it's a bumpy ride.

I had the exact feelings about the fact that if I had not discovered the EA, it would have likely continued on for who knows how long--would not have ended.

Affairs are described to be like an addictive drug. They supply the body with endorphins and people just want to keep getting that good feeling that they get from the pretend fantasy world of the A.

Exposure helps to put an end to the fantasy world of the A because it brings it out into the light of day--and forces the wayward to look at it in all its ugliness and as it is seen by loved ones such as spouse, parents, siblings close friends, etc.

I was fortunate that I caught on after the EA had lasted only a month. H looks at his past behavior now with great remorse. We are doing better all the time--fewer rough spots. I did not have to expose to anyone as H wrote the NC letter a few days after D day. OW was twice divorced and had just moved out from her most recent "friends" home before my H started writing to her--or at least that is what she told him.
Lake

Hi Lake
THanx for your post.
Did you pressure you H into writing that letter? Or did he offer it on his own?
Should I tell H that I am going to expose it to OWH?

By the way, my advice is take care of your children regarding this. Your youngest, and probably all of them know a lot more than you imagine about this.
My sister and I were used tolisten to the awful fights in hiding. And it hurt a lot. You H should talk to them and tell them that he hurt you & the family but is working it out and will never hurt YOU again.

Thanks, and take care.
India

Do not tell your H that you are going to expose to OWH. That would just give them an opportunity to spin the story and make you appear paranoid, etc. All MBers are in agreement on this point. Also, get a list together of people who can help you and who care about your M. Then expose the EA to all of them in one fell swoop. Let them know that you want to keep your marriage and re-build it and that is why you are contacting them with this information. You are looking for their support to help you build your marriage.

RE my children, We are working with them each according to their need. Our discord did not last long--no fighting going on for several months now. The youngest does have needs outside of our marriage conflict that we are working on. The oldest is an amazing young man and very close to me. He is just glad that I am feeling ok and does not want to know any more about it all--I think he is glad to know what he does know, but he is satisfied with current status. The middle guy always requires our time and attention and he is well loved by all because he is such a hard worker considering his abilities in certain areas.
Lake

Well said, Lake.

I haven't been able to read all posts on this thread, but regarding exposure, have as much undisputable proof (hard copies, handwritten notes/envelopes--if possible, phone records, etc.) before you expose to OPS.

You may need it, but as in my case, you may not. OWH did not even seem to care, but our delayed exposure helped me rebuild trust in my H.

My H's OW was (and probably still is) in denial about their 'indiscretion' being an affair since it was "only an EA". The attached lying and deception are destructive short term and long term. Lake's was a month, mine was 6 months, yours, India much longer. Either way, exposing with rock-solid proof will help you end the A and begin recovery.

Ace

Day 5 of my worst ordeal ever. Surviving.

It has been a difficult day because the disappointment and betrayal is setting in. I feel as though i don't know how I will get through this.

H called today. We had another long talk on this. He has promised to make the call to her in front of me when he returns in 2 weeks. Also promised to let me know on any communication btwn them. He finally admitted she has also tried to reach him on google talk asking: XXXX are you there?

He seems to begin to understand that this will not just go away so easily, but I am afraid it is more to appease me, than true understanding. I know he has not yet really acknowledged the emotional dependency that exists btwn them. He tries to comfort me by saying that the last thing she said to him when he (supposedly) called was that she was sorry. Sorry for what? Who knows..He is trying to convince himself and me that she is reasonable, understanding, sympathetic (the very emotional needs that he was seeking). To me, it sounds like denial on his part.

I have decided to expose this to OWH but I want to see my therapist first (next week). I want to be able to sort through some of the pain, and figure out how to deal with this awful betrayal. My mind races back in time and I see the timeline of my life in the last 3 years completely tainted by this. There were 3 people in this marriage. How will I get through that? When was it going to stop?

I am very hurt. The crying has started at unexpected moments.

Thank you for all your continued support and advice. If there are any words that you can offer...

All the best of luck to all of you as well.

India

You could start your "to do" lists. One of them is a list of all e-mail accounts and passwords for them used by your husband. Also, access to any cell phone account he has, access to all credit card accounts, access to any instant messaging account--what is "google talk"?

Another list is your exposure list--names and phone numbers or e-mail addresses of people you need to expose this A to.

Another is a list of questions you have for him.

Also, start printing out the questionnaires from this web site--copies for you and your H for emotional needs, etc. Have them ready for the two of you to complete and date them when you complete them as I feel needs change as you go through recovery.

As long as he defends and protects her, he is wayward. You need to expose.

You can get through this just like all the other people here.
Lake

Google talk is another instant messaging/chat program within Google mail. I know she is on Yahoo and Google, probably others as well. I really don't think he will give me access to his accounts.

I have already started the lists with all my questions. At the top is WHY did you do this to me/us? Not sure if I will ever have that question answered, and that is what could haunt me forever.

I can't stand this insecurity. This mistrust, but the plain fact is...I don't trust that he is being completely truthful.

No, the "why" question is seldom really answered. We can know some of what led to the wayward letting down boundaries, where the frailties lie and we can change behaviors to guard against a re-occurrence.

You really don't think he will give you access to all of his accounts? What does he have to hide from you. What does he do that you cannot see, or know about?

I know that my FWH had a sense of entitlement to "privacy" while he was engaged in his EA. He kept that feeling for about an hour after I read his little cache of saved e-mails to and from OW. Since that time, he has been an open book. I still look at his work e-mail from time to time but he has moved all personal correspondence over to the one family e-mail account.

After he realized what he had done and how upsetting it was to me, he felt scared--keeping his private correspondence on family e-mail makes him feel more safe. He actually has little personal correspondence anyway--he is not very engaged outside of work and family/extended family. That is one reason why his EA was so shocking to me.

I think I know as much as I can about the why of his EA as we have looked at it from every angle. But I still find myself asking myself, "why?"

Take a good look at what you are saying, that you don't think he will give you access to his accounts. Do you have accounts that you will not let him see?

Lack of full disclosure equals need for full exposure ASAP.

Lake

Hello to all.
Today was the day. After another painful conversation w/ my H, I decided I would expose to OWH today. Looked for his tel number. I dialed and got his v.mail. ANd then I thought it would be best to see him in person. I want him to understand the gravity of what has gone on bwtn our significant others and see the hurt that it has caused in me, put a personal touch to this. I was afraid he could brush it off as a "paranoid wife" or just an anonymous call...
I drove to his office which happens to be just blocks from where we live. And asked for him at the front desk. Unfortunately he had gone. But I am decided to do it. Conquer the fear. Face the beast.
Although I didn't get to do it, it still empowered me to see that I was ready to do this for my M. That I was willing to endure the difficult times ahead of recovery.
I will not give up, and try again on Monday.

The conversation with my H, opened my eyes to the necessity of doing that. I faced him again with some hard questions, trying to sort out how deep this "connection" is. I asked him about a CD that he began to play a few months back in his car. A romantic CD, from a famous female singer that I had never heard my H say anything about. When I initially asked him about it months ago, he replied he had just picked it up from a store. Today I had a hunch about it. I asked him and he revealed that she had "loaned" it to him. That was another proof or the level of betrayal...she gave him a piece of her to always be reminded. Music is a personal thing to each of us, and it conveys feelings that we are sometimes afraid to speak aloud, but that are there. When we share it with someone we are sharing a part of ourselves.
Thoughts raced in my head, about them driving in his car and listening to that CD and forming that "bond." It is a level of betrayal I was not ready for.

This is where I am now. Left with an enormous amount of pain.

I know this is the beginning of a long road ahead. And I am turning to you with some questions:
My gut feeling tells me I should reveal to my H after I have disclosed to OWH, so he knows from me. What are you thoughts on this?

What happens after that? How should I handle the anger and threats that will come towards me. Any advice?
India

No, you don't need to fuel the fire by telling him what you did to expose. You should expose to more people than the OWH though. I am sure there are other people who could help you recover your marriage. You need more people looking at him and saying and thinking 'you did what??' When he finds out what you did, you just stay calm and tell him that you are doing what you need to do to save your M. You need do no more than expose and let him know what your boundaries are--access to all his passwords and accounts, etc. as well as NC with OW for life. After exposure, many BS's are advised to sit back and have a favorite drink or bite to eat. Remember, expose to more people than OWH.
Lake

Lake

Well one idea is simply to remain calm and tell him that you did it as the only way to save your M. You love him and don't want to lose him but you cannot have a third party in the M. Don't get in a fight. Let his anger find no target.

He will not be mad at you directly. He will be angry at the prospect of giving up his lover. He will be in a panic at that thought. Most of us experience some level of fear when faced with the unknown. Just remind yourself that you have done nothing wrong and exposing is certainly not wrong.

Remember taht you are trying to save your M while he is trying to wreck it. You don't have to defend your actions.

Thank you little fleas...
I will take your advice. THis is a lot bigger than I thought and I am just overcome by hurt at this point. It is deeper and more hurtful than I first envisonned. But I will fight. I will protect our M, in an attempt to rebuild 11 years that we have had together.
THanx for your wise advice. No fighting, I will remain silent and calm, he will find no resistance to channel his anger towards.
Thank you for helping all these people in need in this forum.
India

That's "little head lice" if you please. Fleas are "pulgas".

I know what you mean about being harder than you thought.

I can promise you one thing. You will make it through this. I know it doesn't seem that way so you'll just have to trust me.

I will.

I suggest you expose the affair to her husband as soon as you can. Your husband will be extremely angry - they all are. Just tell him calmly that you will do what it takes to protect your marriage.

Also ask your husband to write a no contact letter - the affair should not end over the phone. When he gets back, have him write one, and you approve and send it.

Here is what the Harley's suggest -

Dr. Harley’s (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she’s been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

Think about how you would feel if the shoe were on the other foot. How would you react if OWH met you and told you about the A? Take your evidence but I doubt you'll need much. He probably suspects something as well. Now keep in mind that he may not care. Be prepared for anything but be adamant in your resolve. You don't have to defend yourself for anything. You've done nothing wrong and you are doning nothing wrong by exposing. He has every right to know what his wife is up to. No matter which way you stack it, if you want any hope of saving your M, exposure is necessary. And I have a feeling that, once exposed, your H will stop this A pretty quickly. From what you have posted, he is afraid of something. You have a lot more power than you realize IMHO.

Hi everyone,
This w/e has been tough, but I am seeing some hope for recovery. H has sent a NC letter to OW today (on email and copied me) following the example that you provided above. He has taken the first step towards rebuilding by attempting to show me that he is determined to end it.
I am a bit more hopeful, but cautious that this is the beginning and not the end.
I am still seeing my counsellor and hope to sort out through some of the pain and learn to correct our mistakes. It is a path that I have to embark on as well.
I firmly believe that all your advice continues to support me through this. I am grateful to all who took their time and their experiences to help.
I had never imagined that I could get so much help from "strangers." This site is invaluable and I will give back in kind.
India

DD: 06-03-07
NC call: 06-10-07
NC broken: 06-11-07
NC letter: 06-17-07
Status: Dealing

This will be a long, slow, painful process. But it can work. Did you ever expose to OWH? How did that go?

Hi Piojitos,
I went to see him on Friday. He was not there. I am unsure whether I should still do that. Not because of fear, because the very fact that I went, and saw that I was ready to do that proved to me that I have no fear. I want to trust in this.
India.

You need to read more on this site because the fact that you are saying you want to trust in this does not fit with anything you would read here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

What would you be trusting? That your H will not contact OW again? That he will rebuild with you? Remember that he is still in a fog regarding this EA. Also, remember that an A has characteristics similar to a narcotic or other addictive drug. He will be missing the high of the A and it may not be easy for him to go without it. Many BSs on this site have had their WS go back to the A and hide it from the BS. It is not that unusual. This was a long term EA, it won't be easy for your H to break away from it. The OW spouse knowing of the relationship will help to keep track of your H, as he will be keeping track of his wife to make sure she does not continue the EA with your H.

Also, the OW's H has a right to know what has been going on within his M. He has a right to make decisions based on full disclosure: to rebuild the M or to do otherwise. It should be his decision. You hold the information that he has a right to know.

Gather your evidence and expose to OW's husband as well as other individuals who can help you and your H get on the right track.

Remember, OW and your H had codes they used "A?", etc
Lake

I can promise you this is a huge mistake. Regardless of what your H does from this point forward, OWH has the right to know what his wife is up to and you have a moral obligation to tell him. In addition, you should in no way trust your H. He is lying to you to try to keep you from doing what he knows will destroy his A.

If you do not expose, you will regret it. It happens time after time. Expose the biatch for who she is. Give her H the dignity to decide how he wants to continue.

India,

My H had a 6 month long distance emotional affair with phone sex and plans for the future as soulmates. Never met the woman face to face.

On D-Day #1, he and I both spoke to her on the phone to say it was over. She asked my forgiveness, I gave it. Then I forgave my H and tried to trust him because he said he'd never do it again.

Check out my sig line......4 D-Days.....didn't find MB until a few weeks after #4.

Withdrawal bites. It sucks the life out of your trust.

Don't do it. Expose to OWH immediately yesterday. Avoid a sig line like mine. Realize you'll never be able to blindly trust your H again....ever. And you need 2 sets of eyes (one on each end) to effectively end contact.

For me I began starting to re-build trust and recover after we exposed to OWH over 6 months and 3 more D-Days after D-Day #1.

Please don't make the same mistakes knowingly that I made before finding MB.

Ace

India,

You may trust your WH. I personally think that is foolish given the situation you are in. You are still trying to bury your head in the sand hoping all this will magically disappear.

Maybe you can trust your WH. But I promise you that you cannot trust OW. If you leave her untouched, she will continue to chase your WH and he will give in. All waywards are weak. It is in their nature. That's how they become waywards to begin with.

There is no magic pill here. Failure to expose to OWH is the surest way to kill your marriage.

Just as new update, I wanted to post the newest events. After some clearer conversations with H. He offered to send the NC letter and BCC me. Today he has called me several times feeling v apologetic. He says what he has done is horrible and he is extremely disappointed in himself for having done this to me. When I asked him if she had replied, he paused and said yes. She called him several times on the cell phone as well, which he says he didn't answer. He says she replied saying that she didn't understand and felt awful it had to end like this. That she was sorry cos she felt she had caused him pain. One line really bothers me, she said to him that he "made her a better person". I find it audacious and a way to influence his feelings.
He answered her emails simply replying that she had to respect his choice. I know he may not be telling me everything, but he is being somewhat forthright about his communication w her.
She is pleading, I guess. She is in denial and despite my msg to her telling her to stop, she has the audacity to continue trying.
He says that he has blocked her from all communications (email accounts, etc).
I guess I am supposed to feel relief, but I am now plunging into the realization that all of this really happened. I am saddened and left w lots of questions as to why? Left with the lingering feelings that the last few months (maybe even years) of my life were not real. I am left with a feeling of fear, fear that I may not be able to ever trust again, or even whether I should trust now.
H wants to reconnect w me right away. He repeats that he is aware that this is a long process to recovery and that he will hang in there w me. Do all it takes. He says he is extremely sorry for what he has done. BUT I can't help my fear, my doubt, my hurt.
I am having trouble trying to rebuild any normalcy in our lives.
Anyway, if anybody wants to share thoughts or experiences I am ready to listen.
I know exposure is key, and I have exposed to a couple of my closest friends that I know are concerned for our M and will do all tey can to support & help. After I see the therapist and discuss w her, I will decide on exposure to OWH.
India

India,

Go ahead and see your counselor.

You H got caught. He is scared. He is telling you what you want to hear and it MIGHT even be true. Today. But OM is not going to give up so easily. She will keep trying to draw him back. Why? Because he makes her happy and she has no risk. The only way you can shut her down is expose her to her H. Right now she knows she has carte blanche to do as she will because there is nothing you will do about it. Contacting OWH will not hurt your M. You need to shake yourself out of this fugue state of denial you're in.

All the doubts and fears you have are real. But you can overcome them. First things first. Kill the A.

India,
Look at it this way: What made your H begin to realize that the very relationship that he thought was 'fun, fulfilling, good, rewarding, loyal, enjoyable, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah' was actually 'destructive, secretive, disrespectful, sneaky, infantile, hurtful, humiliating, etc, etc.???

It was your discovery of the EA that made him begin to get a grip on his emotions, thoughts, behaviors.

It can be the same for his OW. Right now, she remains addicted to the set of interactions with your husband!! Tell Her Husband what she has been doing and what she is continuing to do. She is trying to hold onto her drug of choice which happens to be Your Husband. She needs to see what she has been doing and is continuing to do through the eyes of her husband. He will then begin to keep track of her. Of course, you do not know what will happen between them. But he has the right to know and with almost complete certainty, it will help your situation.

Every time you and your H have to talk about whether or not she tried contacting your H, or every time you snoop and find some potential evidence of contact, it will set your recovery back, it will cause panic in you. You don't need this. Tell OW's H what has been going on so that you can reduce the reality of contact and the drama of perceived contact.

Your H should begin ignoring her attempts to contact him rather than returning the contact and saying "it's over".
Lake

Thanks again for your continued help & support. My H called this morning and this time he disclosed on his own that the last email she has sent him contained a foward of a msg notification from me, only advising that I had sent her a msg but no content. She prefaced it by saying to my H: "I promised myself I would never tell you, but I think you should know".
OMG. Now I am pissed. I shouldn't be I have expected it and wondered why she had not done that before. I guess she kept the card in her hand until she felt she needed to use it.
H has assured me that he has not replied, and he has blocked her email address from his mail box.
I know you will tell me only exposure to OWH will work. And right now, I could run off to him and do it on the spot, but I don't want to do it out of spite or anger. I want to do it having thought it through, and knowing it is the right thing to do for my M & for him.
My H said that, I don't need to explain, or justify. I had told him about it already so, he knew. But he said: let's not do anything to give her an excuse to make contact again.
That also makes sense to me.
I am dumbfounded though that she is still trying to get in between my M. She should go back to her H & her CHILD.
Anyway, I have promised myself to discuss w counselor first. Not to do anything hasty & turn this into an all-out cat-fight. I firmly believe it is for my H to put her in her place, to restore the respect in our M by standing by me. Again, this is a product of what he did, how he made us vulnerable and exposed us. Although I am aching to send her a msg one way or another.
What a wake up call! Have a good day all.
India

No. It is for HER husband to put her in her place.

I know I sound like a broken record but you seem to keep looking for excuses not to disclose. Now your excuse is you're angry.

Look. I really want you to win this thing. I want nothing more than for you to have a beautiful wonderful marriage. My instinct tells me that failure to disclose is going to keep OW's hooks in your H. You might still save your M without disclosure.

Now, let's put the shoe on the other foot. What if OWH had found out about her A with your H. Would you want him to tell you? How would you feel if you found about it all a year later and learned that he had decided not to disclose to you? Personally I would want to know I was being lied to and cheated on.

INDIA,

Our previous MC said DO NOT CONTACT OW OR HER H. Period.

This allowed my H to lie to me and MC for 3 more D-Days, over the next 6 months...... check my sig line.

I/we did not know about MB. You do.

Dr. Harley is an expert on how to end affairs and recover. The millions of posts on this forum regarding exposure are from experience.

I understand your not wanting to expose out of spite, revenge or fear. Do it for positive reasons....you want your M to recover, you know you'd want to know if it was you, your OWH deserves to know.....you can begin recovery and have a better chance of success....OWH can help end the contact.

Even if your IC says not to expose, to not would jeopardize your recovery and most likely assist your WH in reconnecting with OW during a weak moment...which will be many when he is in withdrawal.

He sounds so much like my WH it is gives me goose bumps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Please consider this, regardless what your IC says.

Ace

PS Now we have a new MC who is more strict than MB! And we are recovering very quickly.

Hi all,
I have reread my post from this morning and also your replies.
I have realized that I do not agree with when I said that agreeing w/ my H about "not giving her an excuse to make contact again." After I put down the phone I realized that is BS. Again, I am made to feel like anything I do to recover or protect my marriage would give her a reason to contact. NO. That is not true. There is no reason for contact. Things are mutually exclusive. If she breaks the NC it is her decision based on feelings of wanting to re-establish the R or simply trying to come in btwn our M again. My actions have no bearing on that. What was I thinking? I made it clear to my H.

He says he understood and had only miscommunicated what he wanted to say which was: that he didn't want her to make any further contact.

Despite this, I had a v difficult day today. I am not entirely why b/c my H has been saying the most wonderful things to me. He is showing concern, care, worry, he is v apologetic and says he feels ashamed.

I drove to OWH's office and stood outside wanting to build up the courage to go in. Then I realized that I had to go back to work, and drove off. I couldn't do it though, I crumbled and didnt find the strength. I felt as though I couldn't go on with this process. I think I am practicing. Coaching myself so that when I do this, I won't feel overwhelmed by the circumstances.

I have to say, that I feel completely angered and disrespected once again by her sending my H the msg with those words. What is she trying to do? She wants him to be angry at me? She is still messing w this, and surely has not gotten the msg. I find her behaviour v daring and audacious considering all she has to lose (her family). She must really have believed in this R btwn them and doesn't seem to be willing to accept the end.

I can only imagine that she is trying every way possible to get to him. He tells me she has been blocked from his email, and will not take her calls (if she continues).

I know full exposure is necessary. I had a weak day today. Tomorrow I see my counselor and will work towards restoring my strength to continue facing this situation. Immediately afterwards I will speak with him.

Again, now that my H is telling me when she makes contact w him, and since we have agreed on full disclosure, should I tell him after I have exposed so he is prepared when OW will try to reach him?

Please don't give up on me. Thanks.
India

OW does not give one rat's eyelash about you. She doesn't care what happens to your H. All she cares about is herself. She would be very happy to cause the destruction of your M.

As far as her considering the consequences such as destroying her family? WWs don't have those kinds of thoughts. There is no rhyme, reason or logic to an affair. That is why you can't expect her to want it to stop. So you do it for her.

India,
I know the pain and confusion you are feeling. You have to understand that there really is no logic to OW as she is addicted to the EA. I dealt with the 'geeez, I thought we were friends!!' thing except that my FWH just did not e-mail back to her and OW had the ability to let it go after that e-mail and one text message aimed at trying to make my H feel guilty about letting her go.

But your feelings of panic are normal under the circumstances. I am glad to know that your H seems to be remorseful. That is a good sign. I hope that he is being honest with you now.

OW does not give a [email]r@t's[/email] @ss about you. She only knows that she wants to continue the EA and you have spoiled it for her. I dealt with that too--words about me feeling threatened that only angered my FWH and made him realize what a fool he had been to enter into the game of the relationship.

It sounds like this EA you are dealing with went on for quite a while so it is not surprising that she is not going to let go of it without a struggle.

I am glad that you are still here with us. I understand that you are struggling with all this now. I think the standard guidelines in this website would indicate that you not tell your H that you have exposed to OWH. If you choose to do it according to these rules, when your H finds out from OW, just remain calm and tell him that you are doing everything you can to protect your marriage. If he has truly blocked OW from contacting him, maybe he will not even know that you did the exposure. Either way, your are fully justified in exposing to OW's H and if your H asks you about it, just calmly say that you are doing everything you can to protect your marriage and that OW's H has a right to know what has been going on in his M so that he can decide what he is going to do about it. You can add that you hope he will use this information to improve his M just like you are using this information to improve your M. Hopefully your H will see the sense in this and won't consider it a love-buster on your part. If he is as remorseful as he seems to be, he should be able to take it in the spirit that you are doing it. I hope this makes sense to you. My thoughts are with you and I hope you find comfort in your R with your H.
Lake

OK Everybody, today was the day I told OWH.
I went to see him at his office and told him what I knew. He was not phazed or surprised to see me there. He told me he knew, he has suspected for the last 2 years! I almost fell on the floor. He thanked me again and again for having had the courage to speak with him to confirm what he had always suspected. He said he is very glad I did that. He has asked for us to remain in touch to monitor our spouses' activities. He has said that he will contact me with more information on this. He was extremely thoughtful, respectful and very supportive of this.
I apologized for having to share something that would cause him & his M a lot of pain. And he insisted he was thankful to me for doing that.
I asked him if he ever thought of approaching me w his suspicions/evidence. He said yes, but he wasn't sure if I knew anything at all and was afraid that it would floor me if I had not suspected anything. He was fearful of my reaction.
I couldn't have hoped for a better discussion with someone who was so respectful, thoughtful, calm, all around so centered. He has offered his help in ensuring this does not continue and he asked if I wanted to do the same. I accepted of course.
In fact, I will be glad if he contacts me throughout this process. He already advised me he will be away for 1 week in july and that we should monitor them during that time. COINCIDENTALLY (?), that is the week that my H has planned to be back home before leaving on a business trip again for another 3 weeks. I am of course wondering whether any of my H's words, admissions, even the NC email is real or if he is still only lying and telling me things to keep me quiet.
WOW. Now it is done. I feel relief and I have conquered my fear, I feel empowered. But on the other hand I know I have a lot coming my way. OWH said he would speak to OW tonight and we both agreed that she would probably be in touch directly after that. So, I will probably face ANGER, THREATS, ETC from my H. But if he knows, it means that NC has been broken once again.
Please, now more than ever I need your advice about what to expect, what to do, how to handle this ugly situation!
India

Oh India,
Good for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I am so relieved that you did this. Hope for the best. Your H says he is in no contact right? If he talks to you about a storm of effort to contact him, you can just say that all you want is to work on your R and your M and that everything you do is with that goal in mind. I am not the best person to advise you further in that area because I had no OW BS to expose my H's EA to. Fortunately I did not need to go further than monitoring H's activity in cell phone, e-mail, credit card activities. You can feel free to continue to quietly do these monitorings.

Others will probably advise you about what to say to H if a big storm comes up. But you have the overall sense of the need to stay calm and focus on your R and M. And that what you did was only for that end. It is great that OW's spouse was so supportive. That is great news and hopefully, he will help his wife out of her fog.
Lake

Feels good doesn't it?

Your H might have a fit of anger. It's common. It won't last long. He might even threaten to divorce. That's common too. The reality is he doesn't have too many options on the table. Just look at him like an animaal backed into a corner. Stay calm and avoid the fight. If he says anything that hurts, don't show it. You have done and are doing the right thing. You have done what is going to save your M.

Hi all,
Thanks again for your quick replies to my last post.
I have dropped out of this forum for a few days as I have been busy and been trying to regain some strength.
I have have further discussions w OWH who is helping me put the pieces of this together. I feel that it helps me, and it certainly helps him b/c he wants to stay in touch. I think he needs it, he may be more in the dark about certain things than I am. Although I think he knows a lot more than he gives himself credit for. Maybe because it is too painful to see the reality.
However, while piecing this together I have realized that this is even larger and deeper than first expected. OWH is sure that they have been having a PA as well that goes back to 2 years ago. My H has acknowledged that it was also physical by default. Remaining silent when I told him I knew. That was his "admission."
I have also learned a lot of v painful details about their emotional connection. He gave her everything, and of course took it away from us. I am not sure how I will be able to overcome that betrayal, but I take one day at a time.
However, there one HUGE issue that I am only allowing myself to wonder about when I feel strong enough. And that is the paternity of her 1.5 yr old child. I would be lying if I said that I know about that w any certainty. And as far as I can understand (although I have not been presented any proof or details on either side), it is still a possibility.
I FEEL COMPLETE PANIC ABOUT THAT. Not fear, but just doubt.
I know that would be the end of my relationship, because that is my bottom line. But I also know, that NOT knowing would mean the end of relationship as well. I cannot live in doubt.
Once again, I am turning to you for help. I know it will have to be addressed when my H returns from his trip. But I don't know how to go about that. Can anyone offer any advice, any thoughts on this? PLEASE.
Thank you from distraught INDIA2005.

Hi India,

Glad you exposed but you do need to know about the child's paternity.

I don't have any specific advice, but I'm sure many others will help you.

In the meantime, I am praying for you.

Ace

Hi all,
I am waiting eagerly for any help or any replies. Piojitos, Lake53 where did you go?
My saga continues and I am in ****** right now. I am in contact w OWH and have suspicions that my H and OW are still in touch. Information is still being shared btwn them. It is by no means over for me. H is coming back on Friday and I have to figure out how I am going to face the question re: child's paternity.
PLEASE, please, please HELP.
India

Dear India,
In NYS, OW's H is the legal parent of that child because he is married to your H's OW at the time of birth and conception. If your H were to challenge paternity, or if the OW or OW's H were to renounce paternity, that is the only way that change of paternity would be sought. This would only likely happen in the case of divorce relative to child support. Okay, that's the legal part in NYS. I don't know what happens in other states.

Now, you are talking about the personal need to know. Keep in mind that your personal need to know may foment the above-mentioned legal ramifications.

On to personal need to know. The only way you have access to this information is if your H seeks paternity through the court or if you seek knowledge of paternity through OW's H. You could ask OW's H to request a determination of paternity and then rely on whatever he tells you ie he is the father or he is not the father.

Even if he is not the father, it does not mean that your WH is the father. Who knows who else OW has been sleeping with??

If you need to know, you should consult and attorney knowledgeable about custody matters in your state. India, I know you are hurting and I know that it is not really "custody" that you are concerned about. But that is the fire that you are involved in. that is why you need a consult with an attorney knowledgeable with custody matters in your state.
Regards to you my sister India

Hey sister Lake53 - you are the best! I feel the same way about you and others on this forum. Thank you for your reply and your kind advice.
Like you say, I am not as concerned about "custody" matters. I am more worried about the true paternity of this child. Although the fact that it could even be a possibility (which I know my WH will deny fervently) is traumatic enough. They have had a relationship for 3 years. I cannot help but wonder and as long as I don't have real proof it will always remain a possibility, which is enough to be extremely damaging to our R. I am not sure whether I can rebuild any trust or move to a recovery stage without that question being answered and put to rest.
I cannot believe I am in this situation and I am afraid I might never know the truth.
I am getting the feeling that OWH is not ready to face that possibility at this point, and I am afraid that without his help I cannot really more forward w this.
It is such a painful situation! Any advice about how to proceed w my H and have this question answered?
thanks again to all for your support.
India

Hey India,
Yes, custody is a concern for you. Might I suggest as a priority that right now no contact is the priority. Ensuring no contact is what you can focus on when your H comes home Friday. How do you think they are communicating? by cell phone only or be computer. You can install a key logger so that you can keep track of computer messages. Has he agreed to give you his password so that you can look up his phone account? This should probably be your focus now--ensuring that you can monitor any communication he may have with OW. The Paternity issue may need to wait for a few days or weeks. You have time. Even though it feels like you are living a year in a minute, you do have time.
Lake

Bump for India,
Did your H arrive home on Friday? I'm sure this has been an intense weekend. How are you doing? Hope all is well or as well as can be expected.
Lake

Hi Lake53,
Thank you for your concern. Yes, extremely difficult w/e. On Friday, as soon as he stepped off the plane we decided to go out for supper and talk. We spent most of the evening talking. And some of my worst fears were confirmed. He has told me pretty much everything (without going into dirty details). He has admitted that the sexual relationship began in Feb/Mar 2005. That is the time of her conception. I am so afraid. We discussed the possible paternity of her child, and he maintains it is not possible b/c there was always protection. He also says that she told him, OW & OWH were undergoing fertility treaments and that it was OWH's child. He also disclosed that he never knew about her trying to become a mother until she told him she was pregnant.
My fear is that all of this is a lie, that she came up with to explain the situation to my H, when he confronted her with this. My H says that he even freaked out, and that they had to have the "paternity" discussion and that she reassured him it wasn't his. He says he even stopped talking to her for a while as he was disappointed with her actions.
In any case, they took up their A again later. And it has been going on for almost 3 years now.
I AM DISTRAUGHT.
I don't know how to get over any of this. I understand this may surpass the level of expertise of most of you, but I am in shock.
I have asked him that he should request a paternity test. He does not want to, because he says that he does not wish to open up any communication, or any further contact w OW. He says that the consequences and fall-out from this would be devastating to all even if it was confirmed that the child is NOT my H's. BUT can I just turn the page, and ignore this possibility and live in doubt forever?
I have enough with all the pain that this has caused me to find out that he has been doing this for so long. That they shared EVERY aspect of a relationship, including the physical one. I am soo hurt, in so much pain & disappointment. The last 3 years of my life now seem tainted and unreal. All the hurt that he caused me by attitudes, comments, and actions over the last 3 years.
I'd better not continue b/c I could go on forever. SO, if anybody has ANY type of advice on this, I REALLY NEED THE HELP!!
Thank you, and I am praying for this to come to some sort of conclusion.
India

First, calm down. The pain is new and fresh with this disclosure. Give yourself time. Can you live with this? I'm proof that you can - and live happily. But you need time.

I would set the paternity test aside for the moment. If you feel you still need this later on, there are many ways you can accomplish this without WH contacting OW. You have a direct line to OWH.

Right now you need time to grieve. My instinct tells me it is not WH's child. My instinct says that you have killed this affair.

I'm sorry for the pain. I know you will get through it. I know you will survive. I know because I did. But it doesn't make it hurt any less.

THANK YOU Piojitos. Your words are invaluable to me. I really need all of you at this time. Please accept my heartfelt thanks.

Hi India,
Your right in that you have gone beyond the realm of my personal experience. But I have read on this site for a year and know that many who are in your situation are encouraged to make an appointment with their Dr. for consideration of anti depressant medication. You and he should also be tested for STDs now.

This is a long and bumpy roller coaster ride. You sound like you are managing your emotions now but I know it is difficult. Are you and he able to spend some time together now? Are you still able to sleep in the same bed with him? Do you feel like you do want to recover this R? It sounds like he is telling you that he wants to recover. It is good if you can spend some time with him and still sleep together if it feels ok to you. You have a right to continue to observe his behavior to ensure that NC is established. It is certainly reasonable that you do not have [email]s@x[/email] until STD testing takes place.

How did he establish NC anyway? It would be good to call the Harley's for counseling. You will need good support to get through this and it will take time. Others here on this forum have recovered. So if this is what you want, I am sure you can do it. You have come this far--discovery, his acknowledgement of the A, and apparent no contact as well as the cooperation of OW's H--you have accomplished a lot in a very short period of time. The rest will take a lot more time.

I tend to agree that you have enough going on right now with all this and that paternity can wait. My thoughts are with you.
Lake

Lake & Piojitos...thanx again.
I agree with you both, there is enough going on right now to add more. I have come a long way in this process, a lot further than I could ever imagine, and it's only when Lake enumerated what I have achieved that I realized that. Thank you for making me see that.
The NC is still an issue. Last night she broke the NC again, and called his mobile phone, left a v.mail & then texted at least 3 times with dramatic & almost threatening msgs. She is demanding from my H that he "make me" stop all contact with OWH".
My H showed them to me, and although at first he was biting her bait, by pushing me, and by delivering her msg to me, he finally understood that her msgs to him have nothing to do with me or what I do, but rather a pathetic & disrespectful attempt once again to establish a link btwn them. He was shocked when I disclosed to him that OWH is away this week, and that the minute he is out of her sight she contacts my H with any "excuse".
I tried to make him see that she is still disrespecting his choice, that she has not accepted the end to this and that she continues to believe she can come in btwn us...in other words, she does not give a rat's *** about us, our M or even him, and she will be very glad to destroy it.
So, as you see, I am still dealing with the basics. The other stuff will have to be dealt with later.
To answer your question Lake, my H established NC through a NC email. He maintains that he has not broken it since, although I have some doubts about that the days immediately following his letter. In any case, as far as I can see, of course, he is in front of me now so he wants/has to comply and has an interest in showing me that he is sticking to his word. I know that this cannot be v exciting for him any more though b/c he has disclosed everything to me. The only question that remains btwn them may be the child issue...but that will have to be addressed later.
I would be lying if I said that I can see the end of this right now. I am trying to stay afloat and fight, but I cannot make any long term commitments as to the resolution of this. I have a lot of pain to sort through, for things he put me through for so long, since 2004. Comments, words, his absence in our marriage, his betrayal with his feelings, his affections, his body. I hope my counselor can help me with that.
For the time being, we are spending time together, talking, discussing, sometimes doing things together (walking, going to a restaurant, movie), we are building some closeness, but I cannot retake a full relationship w him yet. We are sleeping in separate rooms, and he has been v respectful of that. He understands that I should offer that to him when I will be ready.
I have some hope for us, but there is sooo much to get over. This was so huge. I never thought he could do this to me, to us, to the R that we have built over the last 11 years. I have to try to overcome this, and see if I can live without fear. The child issue scares me v much. I will tackle that when I will be ready.
If you have any thoughts, comments, etc...please feel free to post. I sincerely hope other people can benefit from my experience as much as I have been benefit from your great advice.
All the best,
India

Any replies? I am still hoping for some feedback.
I have seen my counselor once again and she believes that I am displaying all the signs of severe depression. And I have not yet told her about the possible paternity issue.
My H maintains that I should have NC with OWH anymore. That it will threaten any possible recovery for us. That it could open a possible retaliation on OW's part. He maintains that it threatens our bond, by my relying on OWH for information I will be "putting my H on trial" and that in itself will be the turning away from our issues and seeking comfort in OWH instead of him. The only thing that I need answered is the paternity issue...that it why I feel I need to maintain some contact, even if it's not constant, I may still need him for that. Any thoughts? Is my H trying to protect us or just trying to protect his futher exposure? Can/should I just let the paternity issue go, or pursue it?
I understand these questions may go beyond the realm of your expertise, but if anybody has any thoughts...I'd love to hear them. I am too confused to make sense of what my H is saying?
All the best to all.
India

Sorry but this is typical of a WH trying to protect OM. You stated yourself that OW has no respect for your M. Tell WH that you are doing what you have to do to protect your M. He is in no position to advise you what is best for you. If he doesn't like it, he knows where the door is. Don't let WH control you. I would send every single thing that OW says to her BH from now till eternity. As long as there is any contact on any level, there is still an active affair. The best way to kill an affair is expose it raw. In addition, your WH will have to see what a bad person OW really is through all this.

Are you taking AD's? If not see your doctor. They will help but they take time to kick in (several weeks).

I felt you needed time to deal with the immediate grief of the fresh revelation. Now I think maybe it is time to talk to OWH about the paternity. Get this one over and done with. It is the biggest problem you seem to have right now and it is resolvable. In addition, your WH might even have some doubt and think there is a possibility he is the father. If so, it will make it hard for him to let go of OW. If he knows he is not the father, maybe he will feel less of a connection. OTOH, if he is the father, OW will be part of your life, in some capacity, from now on. Are you prepared to deal with that?

Hi India,
It seems reasonable to me that you contact OW's H regarding ensuring no contact. That is a primary reason to be in touch with him. Also, it sounds as though you have not been in touch with him lately as he is out of town. Am I right? However, his wife, the OW, has been attempting to contact your H and using your contact with her H as the excuse. So I agree that you should forward all that attempted contact to OWH so that he can see that OW is still trying to stay connected.

As for the stuff your H is saying to you about not contacting OW's H as it would affect your recovery with him, I am not sure why he is jumping to this conclusion so quickly. From what I understand from your posts, you have not had all that much contact with OW's H and your contact has been about sharing info regarding the affair and ensuring no contact.

I have read discussions on this board where BS's wonder if they are getting too involved with the other BS and using them as a source of support, etc. But you are no where near this situation. You are still so early in discovery and early in conversations with OW's H that I am certain that this is not going on. Your husband may be coming up with that explanation so that he can help OW get what she wants--as much secrecy toward her own BH as she can get. I agree that she is also making up excuses to stay in contact with your H.

Like Piojitos said on the paternity issues.
Lake

Hi there my friends,
My situation has just gotten even more complicated and desperate. Last night I found out more devastating news about the extent and consequences of the A.

I have discovered that on Mar 13 (the day of my H's Bday) they had an abortion. Now, although all the details are slowly coming together, and I am still in the discovery phase of these shocking news, I have very good reason to believe that it is 100% factual.

I have been surveying his personal notes, business journal, calls, paperwork, etc. Last night I found the evidence in his business journal. He took down all the notes, number, contact name of person attending them, cost, duration, etc...and an appointment at this # for the date afore mentioned. I did a reverse business number search, with a hunch that it was related to a health appointment (at first, I thought it might be a fertility or genetic testing clinic). I found all the details online: it is a very well-known abortion clinic in our area. I checked out the details on their site, the price, instructions, and all other details on this note match exactly the profile of a surgical abortion < 12 weeks of pregnancy.

I cannot begin to explain what I feel. I think I have actually blocked all feeling, and I am just in shock.
I think I have only begun to open Pandora's box.
The date and time frame match perfectly what was going on w my H at that time, and what was happening to us. He was distracted, distant, worried, agitated, low libido (none actually). He was stressed, nervous, and depressive. He started developing physical symptoms such as muscle spasms and began to take muscle relaxants. He also directed his anger, hurt, and disappointment at me, which I was not able to place. It came to a point when I considered leaving for a while, all we did was argue.

It is also the same month that OW announced she was leaving the company and found another job.
My suspicions are confirmed. I know it inside me. Just the same, I will continue the research to see if I can obtain ALL the details.

Obviously, I will also speak to OWH and disclose everything to him when I have more concrete evidence.
I will also have to confront my H w this at some point although have not yet decided when.

I do not know if this is a workable situation. I hate to write this on this site, but I am very afraid this may be the end of my marriage-building road.
I think I will also need to seek legal advice.

I am sorry to lay all of this on you, and hope not to discourage your efforts in your R's.

Again, I plead with any and all of you to let me know your thoughts or advice about my situation.
God bless you all.
India

I am sorry for the pain this causes you. First I notice that you are having to find this all on your own. WH is not willing to disclose these facts. I think that makes it even more painful because now you have to wonder what else is hidden away. Was that March 13 of this year?

I think it is good that all the facts come out now rather than later. I think the DNA test is probably a very good idea now just to clear up any doubt. I would disclose to OWH as soon as you can with just the evidence you have. I would alos make a photocopy of that journal and hide it away for safe keeping.

Only you can decide what is best for you. Please get the legal advice just in case. I'm just so sorry for you.

Hi India,
I am so sorry for all of this. I agree with Piojitos on everything. Your language in this last letter to us does sound like you are numb and your language sounds almost formal, like you are holding yourself in--very understandable. I suggest that you may want to change the title of your thread so that you get some advice from others who have dealt with similar situations as yours. There are people on this site who have dealt with issues of paternity as well as "other children". As piojitos said in the past, it is not likely that your H is the father, but the issues are there for you to work through. You might want to change your thread to add: "paternity and abortion issues" Again, I am sorry you find yourself in this situation. Make copies of everything and keep them in a safe place. Seek good legal counsel. You have many decisions to make and choices regarding your life. You do not have any children in this marriage, right?
Lake

Hi MB friends,
I read your posts yesterday and again thank you for your kind words and support. I am in front of the computer now and I am not sure what to type. I am still in shock.
I faced my H with what I knew today after a long, painful couple of days of no sleep, hurt, pain, doubt, etc.
I did not even have to show him the page from his journal that I had ripped out. I told him I knew the last piece of the puzzle that I was missing: his secret. And he broke down crying in front of me. He sobbed and pleaded with me to give him an opportunity to work on our M once again. I have told him I am not capable of doing that now...and possibly never.
He recounted the entire story for me from the very beginning, and I listened to a detailed account of all the painful details of his A, his betrayal, the abortion, the sexual relationship, etc...
He also voluntarily offered to me that it was not the only person...at least two other EA's in the last 2 years with other women from work, that happened while he was in the A with the main woman.
He says he wants to hold on to the hope that we can work this out. But as you are probably thinking right now, I don't think I have a fighting chance. He gave up on our R 3 years ago, and I cannot rebuild that, get back the those years where I did not count in his life.
I do not think he is the H that I deserve or the man that I can trust with the rest of my life. I have to be true to those feelings.
To answer Piojitos: yes that was Mar 13, 07, the exact day of his 40th BDay. I had thrown him a surprise Bday party on Mar.9 with all his friends, family and colleagues which OW attended (at that point she was pregant w his child and they both knew, just a few days shy of the abortion).
To answer Lake's question, there are no children in this marriage, so the damage is limited to just us.
I have been given a good reference to a lawyer and hope to see him soon to get some advice, be prepared for other alternatives.
Anyway, I am surviving...it even surprises me, but I know this is again another beginning for me. A beginning of a new process of grief that i will have to deal with. I have not been able to shed any tears yet. I have no doubt that will come, probably after he leaves tomorrow eve, and I may come apart...but I hope to continue turning to you, my kind friends for some help.
Thank you,
India

For me, this is absolutely the worst part of the A - them sharing secrets amd me being the outsider in my own M. The loss of intimacy that will never be fully regained.

I'm glad you finally seem to have full disclosure. The monsters never seem as scary when we can see them for what they really are.

It seems odd to me that he would be cheating on the woman he was cheating with. That makes me feel like there is something seriously wrong with your H that he doesn't recognize.

Are you taking any kind of AD's? They will help you get through the worst part. Before I took them I could barely function. I don't even remember how I got through most days.

Please look after yourself. It will never get any worse than this - only better. You will survive this and you will be happy again.

You are so right Piojitos, that is the absolute worst part of this A. They were complicit, and left me out completely, vulnerable, unprotected. I was alone, abandoned. And the gravity of their secret would have fed this eternally. I cannot begin to describe how that felt, even back then it devastated me without even knowing the truth at that point.

This is also why I feel that until OWH knows EVERYTHING, there will always be a feeling that they are still keeping secrets for each other, and therefore always a connection for what they shared. It will not die, it will always exist, and they will have to be grateful to each other for that.

My H says he will speak to her H and confirm to him that they had a 2.5 yr A, but not only am I not sure he will do it, but he told me he will not be able to tell him the whole truth (the possible paternity issue, the pregnancy, and the abortion). Therefore the secrets will continue to exist.

I will not continue to coach my H through this. I will do what is right for me.

I also agree that my H has issues that transcend this A, his continued behaviour to turn to other women for emotional support outside of this M. That is why I am not feeling hopeful for a future together. He says he will address that through counseling, but I am not sure I can wait 3 more years for this to be sorted out. That is how long this has been going on.If that is what will happen then let it happen individually, and we can see if the future brings us together as 2 whole & mature individuals. I do not have faith that he can be in any R like this. And I need to be happy.
I will be visiting my doctor to get the AD's, although they scare me a little, but prob best to have the option if things get really bad.
I will also be setting up the appointment for legal counsel, want to be informed.
Thank you for your kind words. I have faith that I will be happy.
I find comfort in your words and your story, and know now how brave you have been throughout your process.
All the best to you.
Sincerely,
India

This is how I felt very early on. Now, almost two years later, I see it very differently. The reason is that I believe some (many?) WSs look back on the A quite differently than they viewed it during the A. During the A, everything is perfect and wonderful. After the A dies, many WSs look back in disgust. Yes they still share a secret. But that secret holds a very different meaning for them. It is a secret they wish would go away. But it cannot. I don't fault you for your view. I held it for a long time. Now I see it from a different perspective. I guess part of that is by default. If I still believed that WW held the A on a pedestal, I would not be married to her and I wouldn't even be having these thoughts. But there was a time when I dwelled more on the secrets they shared than the physical act itself. I obsessed about what they discussed. Turns out it wasn't very much. Due to language and accents, they didn't understand each other all that well.

If I were in your position, I would talk to OWH myself. WSs lie. Your WH will not tell OWH the truth and he deserves the truth. If they are not his children, I think he should know that. I also think it will help you whether you decide to divorce or not. You deserve the truth.

I got pretty lucky on my AD's. They had no obvious side-effects. To be honest I never really felt like they were doing anything. Maybe it was just a placebo effect but I was able to concentrate better at work. I remember weeks prior to taking them where I just sat and stared at my computer screen for 8 hours. Lucky for me that, where I work, that's considered above average performance.

I got the impression that WH is moving out? Is that true? Where is he going?

No, WH is not moving out now, but leaving for another business trip overseas (planned well before any of this came to light). He will be gone again for 3 weeks and it can potentially be a month before we see each other again.
I know it will be very hard, and it is a separation that could decide the fate of our M. Although I know that I need to do that, have the peace that I need to calm down, deal with this, seek some advice, etc. Being in the same household w him since this last discovery has been so painful, so difficult.

Today he sobbed uncontrollably in front of me for 2 hours, could not go to work, could not even walk the dog yet. It paralyzes me, hurts, I feel pain for him as well, and I can't help but try and comfort him somewhat to the fact that "everything will be ok" (whatever that means, together or not, one day with time, healing will come).
I am emotionally spent. I need some time and space to recover, to take care of myself and not have to deal with my H's emotions.

We are talking, but I am trying to make it clear to him that I do not see an "us" right now, and that I cannot be there for him unconditionally anymore. He has promised to seek the support that he needs. Yesterday he told one of our closest friends the entire story. He felt relief, unchained, understood, and that is why I keep encouraging him to seek the help from people that are well intentioned and truly care for his well-being.

Anyway, I am sorry that I am rambling on about all this...I just feel that it is finally starting to pour out, rather keeping myself contained like Lake said.

Although, we are still offering each other some support, I know in my heart that I am not ready to commit to anything else regarding our future at this point. Maybe soon I will, but for now I need to deal with this.

Piojitos, regarding how your feelings have changed re: your WW's view of the A, I am so glad that she saw it for what it was: a fictional world of denial, and lies.
I agree that maybe time will make me feel different, but in my case it is so complicated by the abortion, and possible paternity issue, that it is very hard to trust that there are no more secrets. I cannot leave any stone unturned.

All the best again to my friends. Hope all is well for you as well.
India

It sounds like the timing of the trip will suit you. It bothers me a little bit that this still seems to be all about him. He cheated on you. He got OW pregnant. He got busted and now he needs your support. How is he trying to help you? You've been damaged far more than he has and yet he needs comfort while offering you none? It just doesn't ring true somehow. It's almost like he is gaslighting you.

Whether time will see you in a recovered marriage or it will see you in a new life, time will make you whole again. You will survive this.

I strung up white "rice" lights all over our patio cover after we first got here. We have a swing out there. I used to lay out there all day long and just stare at the lights without moving for hours on end. I believe I spent several weeks like that. Eventually the shock wears off. But not soon enough.

Piojitos, your story of watching the lanterns really moved me. I completely identify with your experience of wanting to retreat to a peaceful place where you can only contemplate things from a distance. I am so happy that is in the past for you and you have been able to be happy again. That is true testament of your strength.
I am not yet at that place. I am in too much turmoil to be able to gaze from the outside in.

H just left and I am completely spent. I have absolutely no energy and feel as though I am going to collapse at any minute. I am hoping to rest and gather some strength, although my mind is still processing all the information from the latest discovery and the subsequent conversations.

You are right about my H overwhelming me w emotions. It is clear from his reaction to my discovery of the abortion that it is a very serious issue. If he is letting all his emotions out, and crying and sobbing due to the pain that experience caused him, how come I can't?
I think I understand the gist of "gaslighting" but if you could explain in more detail what you mean, it would really be helpful.
Thanks again,
India

Well I'm not sure it is too relevant at this point but then again maybe it is. As an outside observer, I am still surprised at WH's breakdown. It is not often you see genuine and total remorse so quickly. Then again, maybe his conscience has just finally caught up with him. But the two of you are in a situation where you are the one who should be angry. You are the victim. He is a willing participant. Abortions take a lot of thought and planning. This was all cooly premeditated. And yet when the confrontation takes place, through genuine emotion or smoke and mirrors, he convinces you that he is the victim and you end up comforting him. But he sure got himself off the hook. If I didn't know better, I would think he was trying to manipulate you and your actions. That's what I meant.

Now that he is away or soon will be, take this time to yourself. I suggest you have as little contact with him as possible. Try to sort out how you feel without external influence. Sit and stare at the lights. I usd to sit and think and try to process all the new information. I still remember how I could go from hope to despair in a millisecond as a thought or mental image came into my head. Fortunately WW left me alone to my own thoughts during these times. She was more interested in her loss of OM than what I felt or did anyway.



Because he has known about this for a long time. He knows every intimate detail. There is nothing hidden from him. You just got a cold slap in the face and you are still in shock/denial. I expect it will catch up with you. Probably while WH is away and you don't have the external stimuli. At the moment, you are in fight mode. No time to grieve for the fallen just yet.

Hello friends,
After a few days of silence I wanted to post some news. I have had a few really hard days. I have been having episodes of anxiety and shortness of breath. I went to the MD who did not want to prescribe me Ad's, but rather a natural herbal substitute (St John's Wort). Also referred me to a psychiatrist.
I had a breakdown on Monday and it culminated in my H realizing that he had to help me. So, he came to see (after a lot of pushing) that he should disclose EVERYTHING to OWH himself. So, he called him and put me on conference call so I could be witness to their conversation. He confirmed to OWH about their 2 1/2 yr A (although he failed to give him the details oftheir sexual R starting at the time of her conception of her first child) and also told him about the recent pregnancy and the abortion. I have been a bit relieved since then with a feeling that I am finally a bit more protected, b/c I finally feel like my immediate nightmare of their A is finally coming to an end.
BUT I am now left with all the emotions of his betrayal to me, to our M, and the lingering feeling that this went too far and too deep for me to understand or forgive.
I have contacted a lawyer for advice, and will be seeing him in August.
I know you cannot tell me what to do next, but I am hopeful that you can share some thoughts or questions with me that could shed some light.
I am grieving now. Grieving the end of our R as I knew it. However, still cannot make sense of the loss of my M for the last 3 yrs. I know my H is trying to do everything to let me know that he wants to work this out, but I have brought him to this point (he even acknowledged to me that he would have never told me about the abortion had I not discovered it). We have been at this point in the road before when we went for counseling 3 years ago to work on our M. I walked away from that experience being hopeful and trusting that we would both do what it takes to rebuild our R again. And immediately after that false sense of security that I had (merely a couple of months), he turned around and began this torrid A that has lasted the last 2 1/2 yrs of our lives. I am very disappointed and feel that I cannot trust him to hurt me again.
I am open to any thoughts.
Thanks,
India

The shortness of breath may be from hyperventilating. Exercise may help - check with your doctor. The anxiety is normal at this point, and you are justified in being anxious.

It is good that your husband exposed the affair to the husband. That doesn't happen very often around here - hardly ever. So that is encouraging.

But your hubby is going to have to come up with a plan to make you feel protected. He needs to be an open book, he needs to be able to be reached on the phone at all times, you need his passwords, and he must account for his time, and come home directly from work.

The two of you will need to go to marriage counseling, and he needs IC to figure out why he would take such a terrible chance in losing his marriage.

Take your time in making any decisions. You can ALWAYS divorce him. But we recommend working on the marriage so that you can look back in 5 years and know you did all that you could.

Thank you for your words Believer. They reassure me.

Hello friends,
Not sure if anybody will remember me. I was around this site a few weeks ago very distraught and confused. Things are different now. My H and I have decided to separate for some time. We are living apart although still maintaining contact and some sort of a relationship.
After a short trip overseas for me, I came back to find a very different attitude from him on the issue of his A. He has now changed from being sorry and apologetic to just expecting me to ¨get over things.¨
She continued to send him text msgs to his mobile phone even weeks after things were supposed to be over. He says that there is nothing going on and even contacted OWH to tell him about the attempted contacts. However, I couldn't continue to be there in the middle of all of this. The nightmare was not quite over for me. I feel OW is just just laying low and waiting for the storm to blow over hoping that they can still be in each other's lives. It was too hard for me.
I was still going through his phone records, notes, and other personal affairs and it was no way to live.
I am doing better, the anxiety attacks have slowed down although I am left with a great sense of sadness, but at least it is somewhat manageable.
Not sure what sort of advice, if any, anyone can offer at this point, but I am still open to any thoughts from my forum friends.
Hope all is well with all of you.
Thanks again for all your support, I would have never made it through the last 2 months without you.
India

Well, I suggest that you start thinking about Plan B. You will need to be financially secure and have your business with your husband completed so that you can have no contact with him. You need to write him a Plan B letter. Please post it here before you give it to him.

Hi India,
I remember you and have been wondering how life was going for you. I guess my question is, what do you want now? Plan B does seem reasonable as it can protect you.
Lake

Believer,
Thanks for the advice. Where can I find this Plan B letter? I would really like to read it and understand it. I am not quite sure what Plan B is at this point.
My H ha snow become quite hostile and is looking for ways to justify his A in things I have done or not done. I feel like he has changed from the apologetic tone, to trying to shift the blame to me and our M.
Please help.
Thnks,
India.