India,

Go ahead and see your counselor.

You H got caught. He is scared. He is telling you what you want to hear and it MIGHT even be true. Today. But OM is not going to give up so easily. She will keep trying to draw him back. Why? Because he makes her happy and she has no risk. The only way you can shut her down is expose her to her H. Right now she knows she has carte blanche to do as she will because there is nothing you will do about it. Contacting OWH will not hurt your M. You need to shake yourself out of this fugue state of denial you're in.

All the doubts and fears you have are real. But you can overcome them. First things first. Kill the A.

India,
Look at it this way: What made your H begin to realize that the very relationship that he thought was 'fun, fulfilling, good, rewarding, loyal, enjoyable, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah' was actually 'destructive, secretive, disrespectful, sneaky, infantile, hurtful, humiliating, etc, etc.???

It was your discovery of the EA that made him begin to get a grip on his emotions, thoughts, behaviors.

It can be the same for his OW. Right now, she remains addicted to the set of interactions with your husband!! Tell Her Husband what she has been doing and what she is continuing to do. She is trying to hold onto her drug of choice which happens to be Your Husband. She needs to see what she has been doing and is continuing to do through the eyes of her husband. He will then begin to keep track of her. Of course, you do not know what will happen between them. But he has the right to know and with almost complete certainty, it will help your situation.

Every time you and your H have to talk about whether or not she tried contacting your H, or every time you snoop and find some potential evidence of contact, it will set your recovery back, it will cause panic in you. You don't need this. Tell OW's H what has been going on so that you can reduce the reality of contact and the drama of perceived contact.

Your H should begin ignoring her attempts to contact him rather than returning the contact and saying "it's over".
Lake

Thanks again for your continued help & support. My H called this morning and this time he disclosed on his own that the last email she has sent him contained a foward of a msg notification from me, only advising that I had sent her a msg but no content. She prefaced it by saying to my H: "I promised myself I would never tell you, but I think you should know".
OMG. Now I am pissed. I shouldn't be I have expected it and wondered why she had not done that before. I guess she kept the card in her hand until she felt she needed to use it.
H has assured me that he has not replied, and he has blocked her email address from his mail box.
I know you will tell me only exposure to OWH will work. And right now, I could run off to him and do it on the spot, but I don't want to do it out of spite or anger. I want to do it having thought it through, and knowing it is the right thing to do for my M & for him.
My H said that, I don't need to explain, or justify. I had told him about it already so, he knew. But he said: let's not do anything to give her an excuse to make contact again.
That also makes sense to me.
I am dumbfounded though that she is still trying to get in between my M. She should go back to her H & her CHILD.
Anyway, I have promised myself to discuss w counselor first. Not to do anything hasty & turn this into an all-out cat-fight. I firmly believe it is for my H to put her in her place, to restore the respect in our M by standing by me. Again, this is a product of what he did, how he made us vulnerable and exposed us. Although I am aching to send her a msg one way or another.
What a wake up call! Have a good day all.
India

No. It is for HER husband to put her in her place.

I know I sound like a broken record but you seem to keep looking for excuses not to disclose. Now your excuse is you're angry.

Look. I really want you to win this thing. I want nothing more than for you to have a beautiful wonderful marriage. My instinct tells me that failure to disclose is going to keep OW's hooks in your H. You might still save your M without disclosure.

Now, let's put the shoe on the other foot. What if OWH had found out about her A with your H. Would you want him to tell you? How would you feel if you found about it all a year later and learned that he had decided not to disclose to you? Personally I would want to know I was being lied to and cheated on.

INDIA,

Our previous MC said DO NOT CONTACT OW OR HER H. Period.

This allowed my H to lie to me and MC for 3 more D-Days, over the next 6 months...... check my sig line.

I/we did not know about MB. You do.

Dr. Harley is an expert on how to end affairs and recover. The millions of posts on this forum regarding exposure are from experience.

I understand your not wanting to expose out of spite, revenge or fear. Do it for positive reasons....you want your M to recover, you know you'd want to know if it was you, your OWH deserves to know.....you can begin recovery and have a better chance of success....OWH can help end the contact.

Even if your IC says not to expose, to not would jeopardize your recovery and most likely assist your WH in reconnecting with OW during a weak moment...which will be many when he is in withdrawal.

He sounds so much like my WH it is gives me goose bumps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Please consider this, regardless what your IC says.

Ace

PS Now we have a new MC who is more strict than MB! And we are recovering very quickly.

Hi all,
I have reread my post from this morning and also your replies.
I have realized that I do not agree with when I said that agreeing w/ my H about "not giving her an excuse to make contact again." After I put down the phone I realized that is BS. Again, I am made to feel like anything I do to recover or protect my marriage would give her a reason to contact. NO. That is not true. There is no reason for contact. Things are mutually exclusive. If she breaks the NC it is her decision based on feelings of wanting to re-establish the R or simply trying to come in btwn our M again. My actions have no bearing on that. What was I thinking? I made it clear to my H.

He says he understood and had only miscommunicated what he wanted to say which was: that he didn't want her to make any further contact.

Despite this, I had a v difficult day today. I am not entirely why b/c my H has been saying the most wonderful things to me. He is showing concern, care, worry, he is v apologetic and says he feels ashamed.

I drove to OWH's office and stood outside wanting to build up the courage to go in. Then I realized that I had to go back to work, and drove off. I couldn't do it though, I crumbled and didnt find the strength. I felt as though I couldn't go on with this process. I think I am practicing. Coaching myself so that when I do this, I won't feel overwhelmed by the circumstances.

I have to say, that I feel completely angered and disrespected once again by her sending my H the msg with those words. What is she trying to do? She wants him to be angry at me? She is still messing w this, and surely has not gotten the msg. I find her behaviour v daring and audacious considering all she has to lose (her family). She must really have believed in this R btwn them and doesn't seem to be willing to accept the end.

I can only imagine that she is trying every way possible to get to him. He tells me she has been blocked from his email, and will not take her calls (if she continues).

I know full exposure is necessary. I had a weak day today. Tomorrow I see my counselor and will work towards restoring my strength to continue facing this situation. Immediately afterwards I will speak with him.

Again, now that my H is telling me when she makes contact w him, and since we have agreed on full disclosure, should I tell him after I have exposed so he is prepared when OW will try to reach him?

Please don't give up on me. Thanks.
India

OW does not give one rat's eyelash about you. She doesn't care what happens to your H. All she cares about is herself. She would be very happy to cause the destruction of your M.

As far as her considering the consequences such as destroying her family? WWs don't have those kinds of thoughts. There is no rhyme, reason or logic to an affair. That is why you can't expect her to want it to stop. So you do it for her.

India,
I know the pain and confusion you are feeling. You have to understand that there really is no logic to OW as she is addicted to the EA. I dealt with the 'geeez, I thought we were friends!!' thing except that my FWH just did not e-mail back to her and OW had the ability to let it go after that e-mail and one text message aimed at trying to make my H feel guilty about letting her go.

But your feelings of panic are normal under the circumstances. I am glad to know that your H seems to be remorseful. That is a good sign. I hope that he is being honest with you now.

OW does not give a [email]r@t's[/email] @ss about you. She only knows that she wants to continue the EA and you have spoiled it for her. I dealt with that too--words about me feeling threatened that only angered my FWH and made him realize what a fool he had been to enter into the game of the relationship.

It sounds like this EA you are dealing with went on for quite a while so it is not surprising that she is not going to let go of it without a struggle.

I am glad that you are still here with us. I understand that you are struggling with all this now. I think the standard guidelines in this website would indicate that you not tell your H that you have exposed to OWH. If you choose to do it according to these rules, when your H finds out from OW, just remain calm and tell him that you are doing everything you can to protect your marriage. If he has truly blocked OW from contacting him, maybe he will not even know that you did the exposure. Either way, your are fully justified in exposing to OW's H and if your H asks you about it, just calmly say that you are doing everything you can to protect your marriage and that OW's H has a right to know what has been going on in his M so that he can decide what he is going to do about it. You can add that you hope he will use this information to improve his M just like you are using this information to improve your M. Hopefully your H will see the sense in this and won't consider it a love-buster on your part. If he is as remorseful as he seems to be, he should be able to take it in the spirit that you are doing it. I hope this makes sense to you. My thoughts are with you and I hope you find comfort in your R with your H.
Lake

OK Everybody, today was the day I told OWH.
I went to see him at his office and told him what I knew. He was not phazed or surprised to see me there. He told me he knew, he has suspected for the last 2 years! I almost fell on the floor. He thanked me again and again for having had the courage to speak with him to confirm what he had always suspected. He said he is very glad I did that. He has asked for us to remain in touch to monitor our spouses' activities. He has said that he will contact me with more information on this. He was extremely thoughtful, respectful and very supportive of this.
I apologized for having to share something that would cause him & his M a lot of pain. And he insisted he was thankful to me for doing that.
I asked him if he ever thought of approaching me w his suspicions/evidence. He said yes, but he wasn't sure if I knew anything at all and was afraid that it would floor me if I had not suspected anything. He was fearful of my reaction.
I couldn't have hoped for a better discussion with someone who was so respectful, thoughtful, calm, all around so centered. He has offered his help in ensuring this does not continue and he asked if I wanted to do the same. I accepted of course.
In fact, I will be glad if he contacts me throughout this process. He already advised me he will be away for 1 week in july and that we should monitor them during that time. COINCIDENTALLY (?), that is the week that my H has planned to be back home before leaving on a business trip again for another 3 weeks. I am of course wondering whether any of my H's words, admissions, even the NC email is real or if he is still only lying and telling me things to keep me quiet.
WOW. Now it is done. I feel relief and I have conquered my fear, I feel empowered. But on the other hand I know I have a lot coming my way. OWH said he would speak to OW tonight and we both agreed that she would probably be in touch directly after that. So, I will probably face ANGER, THREATS, ETC from my H. But if he knows, it means that NC has been broken once again.
Please, now more than ever I need your advice about what to expect, what to do, how to handle this ugly situation!
India

Oh India,
Good for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I am so relieved that you did this. Hope for the best. Your H says he is in no contact right? If he talks to you about a storm of effort to contact him, you can just say that all you want is to work on your R and your M and that everything you do is with that goal in mind. I am not the best person to advise you further in that area because I had no OW BS to expose my H's EA to. Fortunately I did not need to go further than monitoring H's activity in cell phone, e-mail, credit card activities. You can feel free to continue to quietly do these monitorings.

Others will probably advise you about what to say to H if a big storm comes up. But you have the overall sense of the need to stay calm and focus on your R and M. And that what you did was only for that end. It is great that OW's spouse was so supportive. That is great news and hopefully, he will help his wife out of her fog.
Lake

Feels good doesn't it?

Your H might have a fit of anger. It's common. It won't last long. He might even threaten to divorce. That's common too. The reality is he doesn't have too many options on the table. Just look at him like an animaal backed into a corner. Stay calm and avoid the fight. If he says anything that hurts, don't show it. You have done and are doing the right thing. You have done what is going to save your M.

Hi all,
Thanks again for your quick replies to my last post.
I have dropped out of this forum for a few days as I have been busy and been trying to regain some strength.
I have have further discussions w OWH who is helping me put the pieces of this together. I feel that it helps me, and it certainly helps him b/c he wants to stay in touch. I think he needs it, he may be more in the dark about certain things than I am. Although I think he knows a lot more than he gives himself credit for. Maybe because it is too painful to see the reality.
However, while piecing this together I have realized that this is even larger and deeper than first expected. OWH is sure that they have been having a PA as well that goes back to 2 years ago. My H has acknowledged that it was also physical by default. Remaining silent when I told him I knew. That was his "admission."
I have also learned a lot of v painful details about their emotional connection. He gave her everything, and of course took it away from us. I am not sure how I will be able to overcome that betrayal, but I take one day at a time.
However, there one HUGE issue that I am only allowing myself to wonder about when I feel strong enough. And that is the paternity of her 1.5 yr old child. I would be lying if I said that I know about that w any certainty. And as far as I can understand (although I have not been presented any proof or details on either side), it is still a possibility.
I FEEL COMPLETE PANIC ABOUT THAT. Not fear, but just doubt.
I know that would be the end of my relationship, because that is my bottom line. But I also know, that NOT knowing would mean the end of relationship as well. I cannot live in doubt.
Once again, I am turning to you for help. I know it will have to be addressed when my H returns from his trip. But I don't know how to go about that. Can anyone offer any advice, any thoughts on this? PLEASE.
Thank you from distraught INDIA2005.

Hi India,

Glad you exposed but you do need to know about the child's paternity.

I don't have any specific advice, but I'm sure many others will help you.

In the meantime, I am praying for you.

Ace

Hi all,
I am waiting eagerly for any help or any replies. Piojitos, Lake53 where did you go?
My saga continues and I am in ****** right now. I am in contact w OWH and have suspicions that my H and OW are still in touch. Information is still being shared btwn them. It is by no means over for me. H is coming back on Friday and I have to figure out how I am going to face the question re: child's paternity.
PLEASE, please, please HELP.
India

Dear India,
In NYS, OW's H is the legal parent of that child because he is married to your H's OW at the time of birth and conception. If your H were to challenge paternity, or if the OW or OW's H were to renounce paternity, that is the only way that change of paternity would be sought. This would only likely happen in the case of divorce relative to child support. Okay, that's the legal part in NYS. I don't know what happens in other states.

Now, you are talking about the personal need to know. Keep in mind that your personal need to know may foment the above-mentioned legal ramifications.

On to personal need to know. The only way you have access to this information is if your H seeks paternity through the court or if you seek knowledge of paternity through OW's H. You could ask OW's H to request a determination of paternity and then rely on whatever he tells you ie he is the father or he is not the father.

Even if he is not the father, it does not mean that your WH is the father. Who knows who else OW has been sleeping with??

If you need to know, you should consult and attorney knowledgeable about custody matters in your state. India, I know you are hurting and I know that it is not really "custody" that you are concerned about. But that is the fire that you are involved in. that is why you need a consult with an attorney knowledgeable with custody matters in your state.
Regards to you my sister India

Hey sister Lake53 - you are the best! I feel the same way about you and others on this forum. Thank you for your reply and your kind advice.
Like you say, I am not as concerned about "custody" matters. I am more worried about the true paternity of this child. Although the fact that it could even be a possibility (which I know my WH will deny fervently) is traumatic enough. They have had a relationship for 3 years. I cannot help but wonder and as long as I don't have real proof it will always remain a possibility, which is enough to be extremely damaging to our R. I am not sure whether I can rebuild any trust or move to a recovery stage without that question being answered and put to rest.
I cannot believe I am in this situation and I am afraid I might never know the truth.
I am getting the feeling that OWH is not ready to face that possibility at this point, and I am afraid that without his help I cannot really more forward w this.
It is such a painful situation! Any advice about how to proceed w my H and have this question answered?
thanks again to all for your support.
India

Hey India,
Yes, custody is a concern for you. Might I suggest as a priority that right now no contact is the priority. Ensuring no contact is what you can focus on when your H comes home Friday. How do you think they are communicating? by cell phone only or be computer. You can install a key logger so that you can keep track of computer messages. Has he agreed to give you his password so that you can look up his phone account? This should probably be your focus now--ensuring that you can monitor any communication he may have with OW. The Paternity issue may need to wait for a few days or weeks. You have time. Even though it feels like you are living a year in a minute, you do have time.
Lake

Bump for India,
Did your H arrive home on Friday? I'm sure this has been an intense weekend. How are you doing? Hope all is well or as well as can be expected.
Lake

Hi Lake53,
Thank you for your concern. Yes, extremely difficult w/e. On Friday, as soon as he stepped off the plane we decided to go out for supper and talk. We spent most of the evening talking. And some of my worst fears were confirmed. He has told me pretty much everything (without going into dirty details). He has admitted that the sexual relationship began in Feb/Mar 2005. That is the time of her conception. I am so afraid. We discussed the possible paternity of her child, and he maintains it is not possible b/c there was always protection. He also says that she told him, OW & OWH were undergoing fertility treaments and that it was OWH's child. He also disclosed that he never knew about her trying to become a mother until she told him she was pregnant.
My fear is that all of this is a lie, that she came up with to explain the situation to my H, when he confronted her with this. My H says that he even freaked out, and that they had to have the "paternity" discussion and that she reassured him it wasn't his. He says he even stopped talking to her for a while as he was disappointed with her actions.
In any case, they took up their A again later. And it has been going on for almost 3 years now.
I AM DISTRAUGHT.
I don't know how to get over any of this. I understand this may surpass the level of expertise of most of you, but I am in shock.
I have asked him that he should request a paternity test. He does not want to, because he says that he does not wish to open up any communication, or any further contact w OW. He says that the consequences and fall-out from this would be devastating to all even if it was confirmed that the child is NOT my H's. BUT can I just turn the page, and ignore this possibility and live in doubt forever?
I have enough with all the pain that this has caused me to find out that he has been doing this for so long. That they shared EVERY aspect of a relationship, including the physical one. I am soo hurt, in so much pain & disappointment. The last 3 years of my life now seem tainted and unreal. All the hurt that he caused me by attitudes, comments, and actions over the last 3 years.
I'd better not continue b/c I could go on forever. SO, if anybody has ANY type of advice on this, I REALLY NEED THE HELP!!
Thank you, and I am praying for this to come to some sort of conclusion.
India

First, calm down. The pain is new and fresh with this disclosure. Give yourself time. Can you live with this? I'm proof that you can - and live happily. But you need time.

I would set the paternity test aside for the moment. If you feel you still need this later on, there are many ways you can accomplish this without WH contacting OW. You have a direct line to OWH.

Right now you need time to grieve. My instinct tells me it is not WH's child. My instinct says that you have killed this affair.

I'm sorry for the pain. I know you will get through it. I know you will survive. I know because I did. But it doesn't make it hurt any less.