I'd leave the dignity piece in. Dignity with conciliation seems to be a good way to bring WS home IME.

Including my own <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

"I want to rebuild our childrens family, but not at the expense of my dignity" meaning "i won't eat crap sandwiches to have you home if that what it takes".

Tarnsey its up to you.

Thx Lora, Bob, will have a ponder about that. Bob, your line "tarnsy its up to you" sounds like something from a gameshow but cant think which one!

BPM, what I want to find out about OW is where she works and if there are any relatives I can expose to. OW does not appear on this years electoral roll for my region but this I expected as she only returned here late last year. There are many OW with the same name (ha! how common!) from area she used to live. Have found out OW and WH new address tho.

Will continue to think about suggestions for changes to schedule letter as will hopefully give it to WH tomorrow.

Tarnsy

I apologize, I never come here on weekends!

Looks like you had great input all weekend. Your intuition is good again.

do not try to educate him "only 5% of A's last". As Bob said, your WH is different!! his OW is special!! They both have agreed that no matter what, they will stay together just to prove everyone wrong. It is best to not even suggest that this R will not last. Becuase when it does fall apart, he does not want to hear "I told you so". Just keep reminding him that you only want to do what is best for you and the girls, and don''t even talk about how stupid his A is, or what a wh*re the OW is. He will find out in time.

I like the idea of sending a copy to someone else, to show that you are not trying to keep him from the girls. But I do not think it would be good to send a copy to her at the same time as you are sending it to him. wouldn't want him to say "and why are you dragging sister into this".
perhaps you could just call her and say "I have just sent a copy of the visitation plan to WH and would like to send you a copy as well, just to keep you in the loop.

How is your R with his family? Are you keeping gramma and grampa involved in the girls lives? Aunties and Uncles? Making sure you invite them to school functions,etc? it is important to keep the communication open with all of them as well. If you continue to chat with them, and invite them to the girls school functions, it will be hard for WH to say that you are keeping the girls away from him.

I would suggest that you invite his family members over for dinner as often as possible. Make up excuses to have them over. then when you are talking to WH you casually mention things like "your mom and dad are coming over tonight. the girls have baked them a cake!"
remind him that YOU are a family member. And YOU always will be. You are not just some girl friend that can be replaced with another girl friend. You are a permanent family member.

I also understand how horrible it is to talk to him on the phone, when he is at her house, but think about how uncomfortable it makes her feel! I would bet that whenever he talks to you, she is in a panic. After all - you are still his W, mother of his children. he dumped her once before. She can not possibly feel secure with him. I would suggest that while you are still in Plan A, try to carry out your converstaions for longer, when you know he is at her house. Chat about the girls, the fun things they are doing. Tell him about conversations you have with his family, with mutual friends. Make sure your conversations are long enough to make her mad.

and another thing - never call that "place" his home. Refer to it as "Her house". "What time do think you will be back at her house tonight? The girls may want to talk to you before they go to bed?" Things like that.

Hey WOF, thx for getting back to me. Shall be giving WH visitation schedule in about 40 minutes when he brings DD's home. Made some minor adjustments but I think the tone is right.

My R with WH's family has gone way down since he left. One of his sisters called to offer support a couple of weeks after but obviously couldn't wait to get off the phone and that is all the support I have received from them but that's no more that I expected. I've always said that the family was a cross between the Waltons and the Mafia!

But most of WH's family have their own problems to deal with, another broken marriage, alcoholism and the birth of a 13 week early baby to name a few. I've always been close to FIL as we share the same sense of humour and have seen him briefly a few times but never alone so I haven't been able to tell him things from my POV. I did tell his sister that WH and OW had been seeing each other for 5mths before he left and she didn't know that so I guess that he has been a typical WH and rewritten history.

I shall do my best to string out any future phone conversations as I like the idea of her squirming in her seat!

I have arranged to meet one of WH's sisters in the school holidays so that our kids can get together but both his sisters live about a 2 hour drive away so don't come back to their home town very often. His parents have never really been very interested in our DD's and have usually let us down when we have invited them to anything plus my mum can't stand his mum and as my parents have been exceptionally good grandparents, they always get asked first. But will definitely think about inviting IL's for dinner.

Thx again WOF, as usual your advice is spot on!

Tarnsy

Well, I have given WH visitation schedule. I slipped it into the pile of mail that arrived for him over the last few days and I know he saw the handwritten envelope when he flicked thru. He didn't say anything, in fact he barely spoke apart from hello and goodbye both times he came to the house and wouldn't even look me in the eye. I tried to achieve eye contact and was smiley and cheerful as our DD's left and arrived home but WH just looked uncomfortable.

I did receive a couple of emails from him today just saying again that this situation has to change. Reminded him yet again the DD's will not be meeting OW as they do NOT want to and to please respect their decision and not ask again.

I expect I'll hear from sooner or later with regards to the visitation schedule altho I don't think he has any reason to argue about any of it.

Here it is:


So that there is no confusion I have decided to put in writing a schedule for when you see the girls. As you have already asked that you not have them the weekend of 7th/8th July so that you can go to Silverstone and that the next weekend is DD's party, I suggest that we start this schedule from the following week. I hope this will be agreeable to you.

Every week – Mondays – Pick up DD at 5.45 for GB, return at 7.30

- Tuesdays – Pick up DD at 5.45 for gym, return at 7.15
DD can go if she wishes.

Every other – Saturdays – Pick up girls at 11.00, return at 8.00
Week
- Sundays - Pick up girls at 11.00, return at 5.00.

You will see that other than sleeping over, not much has changed and you know why this is not acceptable to myself or the girls.

To reiterate, this is not to “punish” anyone, simply to protect our daughters from anymore trauma. Please continue to be a good father to our daughters but do not try to force them to meet the other woman.

I want what is best for our children and I think that anyone would agree that that is to have a restored family with you. But as they don’t have that right now, I will not put their future happiness and emotional well being at any further risk.

Please consider your actions and do what is in the best interests of our children and I promise to do the same.
Love
T

You are really doing a great job!

I want to mention a few things to prepare yourself for. I am not trying to scare you - just helping you to prepare for all the possibilites.

He may see a lawyer, to get something in writing that says he is being deinied access to the girls. That he has a bedroom ready for them, and he expects to pick them up on Friday night, keep them all weekend, and then return them Sunday night. I have no idea what the laws will allow him to get away with over there, but be prepared for this possiblity. (honestly - I don't think he would follow through with this -he would have to admit to the lawyer that he was living with his girlfriend and I think he may be too embarassed by that)

He may tell you that "OW is not going to be there on the weekend, so the girls will be OK spending the night"
Of course, that just leads you to wonder if he is lying. I have no advice here - I just know that many WH's have used this line. Sometimes, they do have the OW stay somewhere else while the kids are there.

Here in the US, I would say that he may file for the D, just to finally be "single" so that he was no longer "having an A"

By the way - since you handed him the visitation schedule - do you have an email that actually talks about it? Some sort of proof that he recevied it? Even something that says "I just read your schedule, and it sucks?" If so, keep a copy of the email with a copy of the schedule, so you have proof that you are trying to give him a fair schedule.

Be prepared for your WH to start recieving some really bad legal advice from OW. this seems to be part of the WH handbook. he will start quoting things to you that sounds like he has seen lawyer - as if he has an actual plan. And he may even get some real legal advice. but when he says something stupid - just know that he is getting advice from the OW.

Typically, when a WS knows what they are doing is wrong, they are looking for any excuse, any way to make things ok. that is when you start hearing crap about "the kids will be better off, kids are resilant, it would be better for the girls to see me happy" etc. these words come right out of the mouth of the OW, in order to make him feel better, so he doesn't change his mind. She will also say things to him like "my friend Petunia was in the same situation and her solicitor said that she had every right to have the kdis spend the night with her BF there, so they fought it, and she won"

So he will start saying stupid things like "I am going to fight you on this, I am going to win custody, I will take the girls away" and all of those things will panic you - but try not to react. it is all just crap.

One other thing - this one really sucks - he may try to win the girls over saying things like "Daddy has a friend who wants to meet you. she likes to watch your favorite TV shows, she likes the same music you do, and she wants to take you to a proper beauty salon to get your hair and nails done. She wants to take you shopping for new clothes, and she wants you to pick out something for Mommy for her birthday as well"
Get the picture? I am 100% sure that right now, OW is trying everything she can think of. She is saying "lets fix up the girls bedroom in their favorite colors, lets buy them some new clothes, lets get them each an Ipod" She wants to win the girls over. And your WH- who currently is not capable of independant thought - is going to repeat everything she says.

And your girls will start to feel sorry for him.
"Mummy, Daddy wants us to spend the night. He misses us. And we don't want to meet OW, but Daddy says she is really quite nice, and she has gifts for us."

I guess the only advice I have here is just to remain strong. Smile at the girls and say "I will talk to Daddy later. Go off and play for now" and when you have the chance to speak to the WH, just remind him that you know what is best for your girls, and having them confused about their Daddy living with his girlfriend is not best for them.

I just wnat you to be prepared for these things, becuase then if happens, it wouldn't be so shocking.

Of course I really hope that none of this happens - that he finally pulls his head out of his [censored] and does the right thing.

Looks like you were spot on WOF! Here is the email I just received from WH. I haven't replied as yet as I think I need some expert advice before I do.

The subject title of his email was "a good day!" as I'd just said that to him on the phone.

That would be nice! But not achievable under the current terms and your letter.

I spoke to DD13 but not in detail, like some people have.

People seem to have done a good job on turning her around. She was up set about me leaving, of cause she was but she seems to have gone back wards now because a couple of months back she did not carry the hate she does now..

I don’t know what has been said to her but I can guess why! I don’t slag you or our marriage of to her to try and get her to be in my favour, but it feels this has been done the other way.

As to you letter, I am afraid I can not accept your terms. Why is quite simple. How am I to keep both of them entertained from 11 in the morning until 8 at night and then the same on Sundays if I don’t have a bass to work from. I have a bedroom with all the bits they would need, PC, web connection, music and DVD/TV. I cant see them enjoying walking around town all day, not only that, I cant afford to take them out all day every other weekend.

As you can tell by my tone on the phone I am not pleased or happy with this, and it needs to change. How I don’t know as yet, but I do feel all three of you are using a good old trick of emotional blackmail.

I know I have made you cry, a lot, but know the tables have turned, all I seem to be doing is wanting to or crying.

Not only that we have the problem of monies, we’ll have to talk about this at a later date as the phone is going nuts here and I have a lot on b4 I go out to an appointment this afternoon


All this just fills me with sadness. The future doesn't good at the moment and I know I need to stay strong but patience has never been one of my strong points. Why can't he see that it is his actions that have caused all this upset and continue to do so.

The e-mail is still 'all about him'.

If you need to reply, I would keep it short and to the point. Not meet his demands but rather focus on meeting the needs of your children.

Example:

WS,

I received your response. Sad that you feel things are stacked against you. Guess that's what happens to those who choose to abandon their families. As for turning anyone against you, none of us can do the job you have done. You actions have been noticed by many (don't define).

As for taking proper care of the children while they are in your care, that is your responsibility. You have chosen to this lifestyle and actually you should be glad they are even willing to spend time with you. Despite how much you have hurt them, the children love you. If you truly love your children, your priority should be to make them feel as safe as possible while with you Having an OW around does NOT make them feel safe. It is detrimental to their physical, mental and emotional well-being. You will be less of a parent if you bring the OW around them. Not an opinion but a fact.

As for your lack of funds, then it just means you have to be resourceful. I am already being resourceful so you and I are no different in this matter.

If you can come up with a reasonable alternative, let me know. Otherwise, this is the best I know under these difficult circumstances.

Btw, I know my husband would not want his family to suffer. Not sure about your choices but I do know he would not be happy seeing his children being shuffled around as such.

Sincerely,
BS

Ok, that's my sample. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I have been busy at work today, and just now had a chance to read!

By the way – I will be on holiday from now until Sunday, so I am afraid I will not be back to post until next Monday.

That was a very ugly email from him! I can imagine that it was very upsetting for you. Now remember, you had some advance warning, so this was not a complete surprise for you. That is the great thing about MB, you can come here and read about similar situations, and it will give you some idea what to expect. Now, when I tell you that his A will not last, that some day he will be broken, hopefuly you will start to see the possibility. So far, your WH has not done anything new. He has said and done the same things every other WS has ever done here. So keep reading, stay informed, and you will not be surprised at some of the outrageous things he will say and do before this is all over.

It is good to wait at least 1 day before replying to any of his emails. I am certain that he expects an instant response. He thinks you will be furious, and try to “get even” with him. So throw him off – do not respond right away. Wait a day to gather your thoughts. Keep a journal each day, so you can say all the horrible things you are thinking. And when you do reply to him, keep it short, simple, and non-threatening. Things like “I have not tried to turn the girls against you. You are my H, their father. I am not trying to make you look bad, or feel bad. I am only trying to protect my girls. The hurt they felt when you first left us, grows each day, with the realization that this is it. This is our life now. We do not have you here to share in our day. You are not here to have breakfast with us in the morning. That is a pain that gradually builds. I am not trying to make you look bad, right now it is all I can do just to get through each day. To hear that you are spending time crying now, just breaks my heart.

As for the money issue, please let me know what your ideas are. I am quite worried about how we will be able to pay our bills, now that you have another house to support.

I want to be strong. I am maintaining a loving home for my daughters in the midst of a very scary, confusing time. I always thought we would be married forever. Apparently that is not meant to be. I will not spend my time speaking poorly of you to our girls, that is simply not my style. But as their mother I will defend them at all cost. I will stand up for them.

Anyway – these are just some random thoughts. Pick and choose what you will. Don’t be angry, mad, or mean. Show him your loving concern. You are not weak – you will fight for your family. You will not allow him to bully you. But you are not trying to seek revenge either.

This will all take time. I know it is hard – you count each hour. You want to DO something. But you can’t – this whole thing will have to go through each step, each stage, so that you can get to the final outcome.

By the way – could you see where he was getting his words from the OW. The 3 of you are using the “good old trick of emotional blackmail?” Huh? Did you laugh at that? Does that really sound like something your H would say? Or just the other womans boyfriend???

I will prepare one more post before I go home for the day.

A couple of things I have learned:

Keep him off guard. Do something entirely different from what he expects. If he expects you to be angry, don’t do it. It he thinks you are going to yell, be calm. Show him, by your own ACTIONS that you are a different person. Do not stoop down to the OW’s level. Be the mature one, the one who shows love and kindness. Not weakness – but kindness. I learned this lesson, and now it helps me in my new M. when we have an argument – I respond with a small kiss on the cheek and a simple “I love you”.

I have thought about your false recovery, and why that may have happened. After all, he was back home – the girls saw him sleeping in the same room with you. He told OW that they were over. Why are you fighting this battle again?

Perhaps, there is more that you need to learn. Certainly he has more to learn. He needs to learn the full lesson, that infidelity is wrong, bad, and hurtful to everyone. He can never, ever, do this again. And he needs to go through ALL this crap to fully learn that.

But what about you? What do you need to start learning thought all of this? Perhaps that is something for you to think about for now. Don’t waste too much time worrying about what he is doing, or thinking. Let him go off and make his own mistakes. Instead, concentrate on what you need to do for your own growth and healing. How can you be a better mom? Daughter? Friend? What are your gifts? What are your weaknesses?

How can you help others? How about calling an old friend to see how she is doing? There are hurting people everywhere in this world, perhaps now would be a good time to start helping out where you can. I would be willing to bet that if you look around your circle of acquaintances – your DD’s friends moms, neighbors, woman from work, cousins you haven’t seen in a long time – there are other hurting woman that you could help. You can baby-sit for a mom who needs a break. Take a meal to a family. Have your DD’s friends over to make bead bracelets. When you start opening your heart to helping others, you will find that you don’t have much time to think about your own troubles.

This A just needs time to run its course. So the question is – what will you do with that time? This is your time – you can do whatever you want. So what will it be?

WOF
Wisdom and compassion suffuses your every post. Thank God you contribute to this place.

I second that completely Bob, WOF is truly a wise and wonderful person. I appreciate the time she takes to think about and reply to my posts and everyone else who does too.

I hope you have a great holiday WOF, are you doing anything special?

Thx for the headsup on the email WH sent. After reading your previous response I was waiting for it to arrive, it didn't take long! I have not replied to it yet as tomorrow we have to attend DD's parents evening together and I don't want there to be an atmosphere between us as that would make for an awkward situation. Our DD's schoolwork has suffered because of WH leaving and she is having counselling but I feel that certain teachers have not been as supportive to her as they could have been. My WH knows the sitch at school but I don't think he realises quite how bad it has been at times. So tomorrow is about her and we have to put on a united front, I will save my reply til Friday.

I did laugh at the emotional blackmail part of his mail because if stating all the wonderful things he has ready for them isn't blackmail, I don't know what is!

I think I am doing a pretty good job of keeping him off guard as he has called a few times for small things and sent a few tm and I am always cheerful and friendly when I reply even if he is rather abrupt. The calls are always short and mostly unnecessary but I can hear it in his voice that he is expecting me to go off on one!

I see what you mean about our false recovery, there must be some emotional need that I didn't fulfill over the 2 days he was here. The only thing I can think of at the moment is that OW has a good job whereas I gave up a good job to look after our DD's and only had a small parttime job since. This was always a major arguing point in our R as money was always tight but my POV was that DD's are more important than money. I am not working at the moment as I would really like to get some qualifications so that I can get a well paid job and make sure my DD's don't suffer because of WH A.

I can see that this is probably still a major issue to WH as he could not understand that I would not be happy working in a local supermarket fulltime when what I wanted to do was to study so that I could get a good job that I enjoyed. I shall be starting a course after the holidays and will probably have to get a parttime job as well as I'm sure we won't have enough money to cover everything if I don't.

I take your point about helping others. From when I was a child I used to do charity work but this stopped in my teenage years so perhaps it's something I should be doing again.

Tarnsy

Here is my reply to WH's email concerning visitation. I haven't sent it yet so changes can be made if necessary.


WH, I received your email. I’m so sad that you feel like this.

I have not tried to turn the girls against you, you are my husband and their father and I don’t want them to feel bad about you. I am just trying to protect our daughters. The hurt that they felt when you first left us has returned as they feel as I do that you left us again when you decided to return to the OW. The realization that this is it now and that their dad is not going to be there in the mornings or when they come home from school ever again has hit us all hard and the pain continues to grow.

No-one has emotionally blackmailed DD. As soon as she was told about your current living arrangement she said herself that she’d never see you. I have only told her the truth, and that is that you are a married man and it is wrong for married men to have girlfriends and/or live with OW. If telling the girls about the things they would have at her house isn’t blackmail, I don’t know what is.

As for the visitation schedule, if the hours are too long then by all means bring them home early. You managed to entertain them successfully whilst you stayed at your mums as I know you didn’t stay at her house with them so that they didn’t get in her way. This is no different; you just have a different address.

Despite how much you have hurt them, your children still love you. If you truly love your children your priority should be to make them feel safe and secure. Having an OW around does NOT make them feel safe and secure.

My husband would not want to see his family suffer this way, to my recollection he could not understand men who left their families and said he would never do that. I do not think he would be happy to see how much his actions have affected them all as while he doesn’t live with them, he cannot possibly know.

Love

T

Saw WH last night at DD's parents evening which wasn't as bad as expected, most of her teachers said that they had noticed a decline in her work but that she has great ability. Although I had informed the school of the sitch at home, some didn't know and I had to tell them how badly affected she had been by it all so I think now that they know things should get better for her.

WH was supportive and didn't try to deny that out sitch had anything to do with DD's decline in grades, I don't think even a WS could not see how she has been affected. WH and I chatted about his family, DD's first dancing lesson and general stuff even managing to laugh and joke. All in all a friendly couple of hours spent, despite the fact that WH had sent me an email detailing the bills he will no longer be paying now that he has moved in with OW. WH probably thought that I would be moody and not speak to him but I was the opposite!

I received an email from him this morning telling me that he is going to the hospital today for a colon cancer screening. This is a shock although he has had problems in that area for several years including being diagnosed with diverticulitis and having to have a large part of his colon removed. I wish that I could be there for him as I know how worried he'll be although he won't show it. Fingers crossed that he gets the all clear.

He also added this as a reply to my last email to him:

"I read your last email in detail. It’s just so hard Tarnsy, so, so hard. Millions of ppl world wide have to deal with the same situation we find our family in, and most get on with it. Looks like we are in a head lock on this matter and I don’t know how we can move forward. Reducing the time is fine but not ok. I just don’t know.

I want the girls to stay over but understand where you all come from (I think). B*gger, p*ss b*ll*cks and sh*t."


Looks like we have come to a truce for the time being!

Back at my desk today, wondering how you are doing. Your posts sound great.

By the way – that lovely compliment from Bob brought a tear to my eye. It is just so nice to be able to help people through such a tough time in their lives, and remind them that there is hope.

I want to reply to this post of yours:
“I see what you mean about our false recovery, there must be some emotional need that I didn't fulfill over the 2 days he was here.”

Do not think this for another minute. For one thing, no one can meet another persons EN’s all the time, every single day. A false recovery usually happens when the WS is still in contact with the OP. I suspect that in your case, your WH was still trying to play both sides of the fence. Recovery with you, but still talking to her. A little bit of “keeping his options open with her” just in case recovery did not work out. Also, many times a WH feels pity for the OW, and tries to keep in contact with her to let her down easy. I am certain that she comes from some sort of horrid past. She has likely told him that she was abused as a child, she has been hurt by men before, she is very fragile, and needs a knight in shining armor to ride in and save her. That is part of the allure of an A for many men – becoming the hero to the OW. Especially if he one of his EN’s is for admiration. Your recovery was false because he was still in contact with her – and he expected things to be easy. He was not ready for the truly hard work yet. Now he will live with her and be completely miserable. That will be good. It will give him the encouragement to really work at recovery.

Also – don’t rush to the conclusion that his need is for financial support, so you need to get a good paying job. Have the two of you ever had a genuine discussion about this? Not just a fight, when money is tight, but a real discussion?

This comment by him:

“I read your last email in detail. It’s just so hard Tarnsy, so, so hard. Millions of ppl world wide have to deal with the same situation we find our family in, and most get on with it.”

The thing he is learning right now, is that millions of ppl deal with this – but it is HORRIBLE! Here again, OW has been telling him a bunch of lies. Things like “it will be hard at first, but she will get over it. The kids will be better off! They will see their Dad happy, and eventually everyone will be better off. This sort of thing happens all the time”
While it is true that this sort of thing happens a lot – it is not true that most just get on with it. They fake like everything is ok, but everyone here knows better.

He still suffer financially – most OW will convince the WH that things will be great after the D is final. But they never fully recover financially. It was a struggle to pay the bills for your 1 household. How on earth will he make it supporting two? And child support will cripple his finances for many, many years.

Also – the stigma that comes with dumping your family for an OW is very hard for a good man to live with. Your WH sees old friends in public, and tries to avoid them. I am sure that he was very nervous going to DD’s parent meeting the other night. Fearful that one of the teachers may confront him for abandoning his family. Holidays will be constant reminders of time spent together, as a family. YOU are the wife of his youth – the mother of his children. You share a history with him that she will never have. He knows that at night, when he is trying to sleep. He hopes that things will get better, but they don’t.
There are things going on right now, behind the scenes, that you do not know about yet. For me, I fully believe that God is working on your behalf, showing your WH the truth. Someday, you will hear stories of things that happened to him while he was gone, that helped him to see his path home. For now, you think he is enjoying a fun, party life. But it just isn’t the case.

Hang in there. Are you getting ready for Plan B?
Do you know anything more about the OW yet?

Ternsy,

I have read this thread and have a great deal of admiration for you. You are handling the most difficult painful situation that can be inflicted on anyone, and you are doing so with grace and dignity.

I truly hope and pray that your WH will see the light before it is too late. I fear that if he doesn't, in the end he will be the one to suffer most.

You know, last Fall my FWH and I were invited by our DD to a birthday party for my XH. We split up nearly 18 years ago and he remarried before the ink was dry. His second marriage lasted a nanosecond. Since then he has dated an on-going series of truly disappointing women. At the birthday party, our daughter pointed out the latest conquest. On our way home, I mentioned to FWH that she seemed nice. He said, "but she's not you, and XH will never be satisfied with anyone who isn't."

It is sad. He is sad. And I wish that it hadn't ended up this way. It isn't even gratifying that FWH saw a glimpse of his own future if we can't recover.

Who

Hi WOF, hope you had a great vacation and are feeling refreshed.

When WH stayed over for the two days, he had not actually ended his R with OW, he did that the next day and then had no contact with me other than email so he was still very much in the A although he was my H during those 2 days.

I agree with you that his line about "millions of other people go through this" definitely sounds like something OW has said to WH to try to get him to fight with me over DD's meeting her, but it hasn't worked. His last email said that he can see where I am coming from so for now at least we are in agreement. Although I do wonder if he has some ulterior motive and is just trying to pacify me for his own reasons. Still, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I am going to see about any money I am entitled to tomorrow as I wont be able to start a job for a few weeks as I am having minor surgery at the end of this month. I took my DD7 to her second dancing lesson on Sat and my old teachers were there and invited to become a dancing instructor so I think as soon as I have recuperated I will start training. It's something I've always loved so I might as well get paid for doing something I enjoy. Then I will be able to work out how much money WH needs to give me each month and I think he might have a nasty surprise! He also takes with him all the credit card bills and loans so he is going to be paying out alot more than before.

Since Thursday he has been contacting me alot via email, phone and text, mostly about nothing in particular and on saturday came round to see DD's but spent most of the time in another room talking to me about family and business stuff. Tonight he took DD13 to a cash and carry, sent me a text saying he had a surprise for me that "is better than you know what!" and came home with a tub of my favourite ice-cream (which is hard to get) that we used to eat together on the sofa. He seems to be more thoughtful now than he was when we were together!

As for plan B, I have intermadiaries ready and aware of the sitch and once the finances are in place and WH agrees to the amount I want, I will be ready physically. Dont know if I'll be ready emotionally though especially while he is being so nice.

As for OW, I have not found out anything new but I haven't caught up with my friend who may be able to get some info for me.

Thx for pointing out that WH is probably not having as easy a time of all this as I often imagine he is. He is a good man, or H was anyway, and I know that he is uncomfortable being an adulterer and how he is perceived by others. He told me on Saturday that he is planning to see a psychic! This is not something he would have done before but his brother (who ended his marriage NY day!) went to see this pyschic and apparently she knew things that no-one could have known. She also told BIL that his marriage will never get better than it is so BIL, who was thinking of getting back with his W, has decided not to. I think that WH is hoping for something similar! It would help to relieve his guilt if he could say "see, the pyschic said I did the right thing in leaving family". Of course, she might say the complete opposite!

WhoMe, thx for taking the time to read my thread and for commenting. Believe me, I didn't handle this sitch with grace and dignity in the beginning! I was a complete emotional wreck for almost 3mths and did not cope very well at all.

I went from virtually begging WH to come back to not being able to look at him or even hear his voice when he spoke to DD's on the phone. According to MB principles I did everything you shouldn't do! It was only once I got myself sorted out emotionally (thx to a wonderful counsellor and AD's) that I started to change my outlook and see that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

That seems like a long time ago now and I don't like to reflect on that time too much!

I hope that one day I too will be able to talk about my FWH like you. Is there anywhere I can read your story?

Tarnsy,

Well, not really. The sad man is my XH. I am trying to recover my marriage with FWH #2, some gals have all the luck!

In a nutshell, my FWH husband had a lengthly EA with a former college roommate who lives 3000 miles away, it ultimately became an 8-month PA that pretty much died a natural death. OW helped kill it by LBing all over the place.

I plan A'ed like crazy, trying to get my WH to just be civil, without knowing he was in an A. Eventually, I got tired of his constant anger and unpleasantness and simply started living my life independent of him. Dinner with female friends, the theater etc. He sensed that I was moving on and it scared him badly. Guess maybe he finally saw that he might just lose me.

I think he spent about 4 months trying to end the A, with OW holding on for dear life and threatening all the way. I found out after it had ended, although there was still phone and email contact since OW worked for him as a free lance writer. That ended a few days after d-day and the undying love OW had pledged turned ugly in the blink of an eye.

She claimed sexual harrassment and tryed to file a law suit against his company.

Along the way, I made every mistake possible, took no AD's, had no counseling, tried to keep it private so I had no one to talk to, and didn't find MB until 15 months after d-day.

We went thru all the classic stages attempting to find recovery, including a MC who told me I just needed to get over it.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago when I discovered that FWH was again contemplating starting up a new email friendship with a divorced high school classmate who lives on the other side of the world. It was like dejaveau, some lessons are hard to grasp. He thought he hadn't done anything wrong because he hadn't actually sent her an email when I found out.

I got him to post here as to what he had done and he got the snot beat out of him by both FBS and FWS's here. He finally saw what I had been trying to show him and we are very carefully working our way towards recovery. This time with the help of counseling with Jennifer.

I remain very cautiously optimistic. But like you, I will get thru this either way.

You take care, this is tough stuff, as you know. I have two grown daughters and I think if my SIL ever did this to my DD, I might just run over him with my SUV!

Who

Please, start praying about this!
I can not think of anything more hazerdous to your M right now. some stranger, who doesn't know either one of you, is going to charge your WH money to tell him how to live his life. I feel so bad for him. he must be really, really desperate. Pray that he will not follow through with this. And if he does follow through, pray that the psychic will give him such a ridiculous response, he will see it all as a huge mistake.

Isn't a psychic just supposed to predict the future - as in "I predict that you will leave your loving wife". it sounds like this one is giving out M advice "things will never get better, I suggest you just leave" Doesn't a psychic just "see" the future - not give out M advice?

Please, start praying. Even a simple "God please help me"
this is scary territory - and you do not want any part of it.