Tarnsy,

I tried to find my PBL and addendums before I left on this trip, but didn't have any luck yet. Now that I'm finally back into internet signal again, if a bit patchy, maybe I'll have better luck.

Have you starteda a PBL yet? What sorts of things would you need to arrange ahead of time to have NC with him?

It does sound like you are ripe for the peace and tranquility of a good Plan B.

WOF, Neak,

Thx for your replys. Saw WH yesterday as he was due to have DD's, instead of taking them out he stayed here and spent much of the time talking to me. Plan A'd in the beginning but ended up talking about money as he wanted to know if I knew how much support I will be getting from the social. WH said how he cannot afford to keep paying for 2 homes and I told him that is something he should have thought about before moving in with OW.

I told WH that I had always said that I didn't want to be a single parent but he had forced it onto me and that it felt that DD's and I were the ones having to pay for his R with OW. Now I am going to have to get a better paid job (WH said that this was something he's always wanted) and have less time to spend with DD's so he can have more money to spend on OW and her house!

WH also finally admitted that he knew when he left that he would be with OW altho he strenuously denied it in the weeks immediately after Dday. I told him I was not responsible for the A to which he replied that I was partly to blame and had said as such! I told him, no, I was partly responsible for him being in a place where he was vulnerable to an A but from the day he met her my responsibilty ended, I was not the one who had an A and put the final nail in the coffin of our marriage. Also told him that if he had not met OW he would still be home.

The conversation ended there as DD came in and no more was said.

As for plan B, I have wriiten the letter and will post it later as have to go to hosp in a mo to have a cervical erosion cauterised.

WH still has all his things here in our home altho I don't think that there is anything he will need, after all he's been gone 8mths and hasn't needed it thus far, do you think this will get in the way of plan B? Plus, I still have a couple of things I need to find and send to the relevant agencies re the money I am entitled to while I'm not working.

The other thing is, I'm having surgery on Friday and will be out of action for a few days. I'm worried that if I'm in plan B at that time that I won't be able to do much to take my mind of things. I keep reading how important it is to keep occupied during the 1st days of plan B and I'll be laid up in bed with not a lot to keep my mind off things.

What do you think?

Tarnsy

My concern is you are not in a plan right now. This is NOT a Plan A, and not a Plan B, but a mix of them both and that NEVER works.

You are moving towards Plan B...yes, good move, but what are you going to leave him with when you make the move? Resentment? Tactical strategerizing (to misquote a president)?

Yes, it is clear a Plan B may be needed, but if you move to Plan B after the cold conversations and lack of affection, he will say "good riddance".

How much love do you have left? What do you want to leave him with...what do you want him to think about...what do you want to show him what life wold be back with you when he chooses you again...what will keep him up nights thinking about after he is fighting with the OW? What goo dmemeories will he be left with? What will he hope to return to...more of the demands, Tarns in control?

What would a Plan A look like? What would you like your marriage to be like, and what part of it do YOU need to show him.

I haven't been following your sitch for long, so pardon me if you have been doing a stellar Plan A. But if you have, you are spoiling it at the end here...

StillHere,

I see what you are saying. I think I did a pretty good plan A up until the last week. It's just that whenever I see him I end up thinking that he's been with OW or he's rushing off to be with her and it makes me sad. Thats why I feel that plan B is needed.

WH contacts me just about everyday via email, phone or text plus he comes to our home to see DD's at least 2x a week and it means that on occasion, some subject comes up that leads to me saying something I shouldn't. We don't argue or anything, it's just an overwhelming feeling of sadness and loss and I want him to know how he continues to hurt us.

I know, I must try harder to keep my mouth shut!

So, do you think I should try to do a better plan A for the time being before stepping into the darkness?

Yes, better Plan A before the darkness, but also, be honest about those feelings...with him...you are having.
I wouldn't dwell on them, but a simple, "I'm feeling a bit sad today because I found a picture of us on vacation" or "Sorry if I was snipey, I find my temper is short these days worrying about the future." I wouldn't dwell or place blame about these things, they are honest emotions, speak them and then go on with the conversation.

If it is a bad time to talk, tell him, make plans to talk later. Have conversations that aren't just about logistics. Call or txt...just because. Spend time with him, if he'll let you. Do this as long as you can...and it looks like your time is short. I even got to the point I said to my WH, "It is hard talking with you knowing you love someone else, I don't know how long I can keep this up."

Good Luck! Plan A is VERY tough.

Hi guys,

WOF, as the person who has supported me all the way thru this thread, do you think I should plan A some more? I value your opinion. In one way I think I should so that I can make up for our last interaction when I may have LB'd, but then I think that it is getting difficult to see him without saying something that I might be better of in plan B. Having surgery tomorrow is another reason to not go to plan B as I won't be able to keep busy.

Neak, would love to see your PBL, I believe I've read that you are a writer so your input on my PBL would be invaluable.

Wh has been quiet the last couple of days, just 1 call to check on DD's. When he dropped DD's off from his last visit I told DD's to give WH a big hug as they won't see him till Mon. WH asked why is that, I reminded him that this is the usual schedule, to which he replied that he will probably take them out on Sat to buy them the new HP game. I'm wondering why he suddenly wants to see DD's more often, is he just being helpful as he knows I'll be recovering from surgery or does he have an ulterior motive?

My PBL is ready for you all to cast your eye over, if you think I should post it now so that there is time to discuss any changes, let me know.

Tarnsy

It sounds like you may be better off watiign until after your surgery for Plan B.
it is very important in Plan B to have no contact with your H, and for the days right after your surgery, you may need to ask for help.

I would suggest you start a new thread, titled "adivce need on my Plan B letter" and post your letter there.

Frankly - I am not much help with plan B. I skipped plan B and went right to D.

Hi there,

recovery from surgery is going well but very boring! I'm sitting here with my feet up and it's not very comfortable trying to type!

Have just found out that my intermediaries are going on holiday on Saturday so will have to postpone plan B for a couple of weeks so in the meantime I could use some support as I continue to implement plan A.

WH tm'd whilst I was in hospital to wish me well and came round the next day to see DD's even though it was not his weekend. WH took them shopping and they came back with the Harry Potter game for the Nintendo DS, HP Scene It DVD game and the new HP book! And I got a bottle of wine!

Normal schedule for WH to see DD's was kept to for Mon and Tues and have had phone calls and email from WH. He called today to check on whether our DD13 is keeping to her homework schedule and WH asked how I was. Told him I had been sleepy today as I had a late night with a friend and a bottle or 2 of wine and that I was kept awake with things going thru my mind. WH asked if I wanted to talk about it and I said no I don't think I should talk to you about you.

WH said "I annoyed you then" I said "no, why should you annoy me?". He replied "I've done more than enough to annoy you", I said "annoy is a bit of an understatement." He asked again if I wanted to talk about it and I again refused.

Should I have said anything? From what I have read on other threads it seems a bit unusual that WH would want to talk about what was on my mind especially as I'd told him it was about him. Should I have said well actually I was crying because I miss you and want you to come home? I don't know how to handle this sort of question as it was so unexpected.

The other thing I've been wondering about is why he only ever contacts me during the working day. He never phones in the evenings altho he does occassionally tm at the weekends. Is he protecting OW by only making contact when she is not around? I feel a bit like I'm being treated as the OW! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Tarnsy,

Glad to hear the surgery was successful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now take your physical recovery and apply what you know to your personal recovery.

Your H called (not the WS) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .... to see how you were. That's good.

You now have his attention. You were a bit shy in responding to him. You can recover from this nicely by maybe sending him a letter or e-mail. Make sure it is addressed to your H's persona and NOT the WS. Critical!!!!

It is ok to let him know you are addressing this response to your real H. Express your appreciation for his concern. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Once you are ready to get into the body of your response, let him know you were a bit taken aback when he called. Since the A, you have been scared of communicating with him since the mood changes were so vast. Then go into your response and say something like one day you would like to speak to your real H. That like your current physical condition surgery was required and once the healing takes place (as it is now), progress can be seen. You feel the same about yourself and your M. Address the facts that there maybe doubts and like your recovery, the success of the surgery had it's risks but it was worth taking. So likewise with your recovery, risks are there but they are certainly worth the effort.

I am sure you are getting this pattern. The point is to give him another POV by applying what you want to say onto another subject. This will help keep his WS anger away from your communication.

This isn't an MB way but it worked for me. I applied MB principals and a few revisions to fit my situation.

Hope this helps.
L.

I have learned a few things over the past few years that could possibly help here...let me know if you think it will.

It seems like you are getting a bit of a response to your Plan A-ness.

Some thing to keep in mind...keep it LIGHT! Stop asking questions about the day to day stressful things in life, too much reality if YOUR relationship will make the OW look better...inject a bit of fantasy I guess. Make jokes, comment on the weird hairdo of your favorite frontman, if you had a million dollars you'd buy everyone ice cream, etc...

Always say YES!!! It can be a "Yes, but...", but make sure it's a YES!!! If he wants to borrow your car, say, "Yes, but I won't have anything to drive..rent a car for me?" Am I annoying? "Yes, but I am probably just as annoying...I can't beleive I want to argue with you to convince you I'm more annoying (wink, smile, change the subject...)"

Treat him like royalty... Does this bother you? Don't worry, you probably can't, too much resentment, but if you began to treat him like royalty, asking permission before doing ANYTHING around him, it's amazing how much it really makes you think about what you are doing around him, and how much you take for granted...how much you assume...and how little you think of yoiur actions around him...

Just some thoughts...

I think your conversation with him went well. Try not to pick apart every little covnersation. remember - he IS your H, and you do know him better than anyone else!

I like the post above suggesting that you ask him about the things you do when he is around. ALL men like to feel "in charge" and respected. I am not suggesting that you allow him to make all of your decisions for you. But involve him in family and household issues - now while you are still in plan A. Things like "I was thinking about moving the sofa to this other wall. What do you think?" and "I was thinking that I may need to get a security system installed. I get nervous when the girls and I are home alone at night"

See what I mean.

Help him to feel like "the man of the house" while you are still in plan A. this is something I have carried over, into my new M. I let my H know that I value his opinion. I don't bug him with the smaller things like "what should I cook tonight" but I do include him on things like "I was thinking about planting a rose bush in the corner. What do you think?"

when you have been married a long time, you tend to get into a certain pattern where you just take care of things around the house on your own, and you don't discuss things with him anymore. Most of the time,as wives, we think we are helping them out be taking care of al the household details without bothering them. but in rality, I think they want to be bothered. They want to feel like they are a valuable member of the household

Just a thought.

and that bit about only calling during work hours? he doesn't want OW to know he is talking to you so often. He isn't trying to protect her. He just wnats to talk to you still, and he knows she would FREAK out if she knew. I know that is a pretty crappy reality. but think of this - he has a secret from her, and it keeps a wedge between them. He can never completely relax around her. he has a secret to hide. That must be a miserable way for him to live.

Thanx everyone for your responses. I feel that I will need to keep reading the above suggestions so that they can sink in as there is a lot of stuff there to think about.

Orchid, I will respond to WH via email in the manner you suggest. I have been scared to tell WH how I really feel and as I understand plan A, I shouldn't anyway. He rejected me for OW a 2nd time just a couple of months ago so I am afraid to open up to him in fear of being hurt again.

Still, I shall endeavour to inject a little fantasy into my conversations with WH, it is not something that comes easy to me, altho I have a pretty good sense of humour I can be a little on the serious side. Our convo's lately are mostly about his business, his brothers problems and our DD's of course. We have a mutual interest in sci-fi so perhaps I can use this as a way to make things more light-hearted.

As for treating him like royalty, I like the idea of that. It is not something that I have done for many years and I think WH would respond well to this.

WOF, I shall try to think of things that I can ask WH's help or advice on. I have always asked him for help in the past but I think that it was interpreted as nagging as I'd ask him to do something and it wouldn't get done so had to ask again and again. I have noticed that if I've asked him to do anything since he left that it get's done 9 times out of 10. I did wondeer if I had been too needy and dependent on him and if this was one of the reasons he started the A as from what I can gather about OW, she isn't like this at all. I guess it's about asking in the right way and finding a balance between requesting his opinion/help and not being needy or demanding.

I like the idea that he keeps the quantity of our contact a secret from OW, sound similar to how A's start! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

PS. Does anyone know how I can get my thread back to it's normal size??

Received a phone call late last night from WH old best mate from his army days who he has had minimal contact with over the years because of hie friends postings. He obviously didn't know that WH had left so I filled him and his wife in on the sitch. They were both very shocked as they had thought that WH was not the sort of person who would have an A and were very supportive to me and invited me and DD's to stay with them when they are settled back in the UK.

Gave them WH's mobile no. so they could speak to him and received this email from WH just now:

"I take it you spoke to my old mate last night.

*** and his wife ****.

He called me at 10.45 and I had a hour and a bit on the phone with him.

A great call, mind you he was pretty pissed at me for obvious reasons!

I won’t go in to detail here. **** had a go at me too.

Talk to u later about it."

I guess WH is "pretty pi**ed" at me for exposing to one of his oldest friends! Can't wait to find out what he wants to say to me about it, after all, I've only told the truth.

Maybe, but I doubt it. My guess is that his mate made sense and he wants to throw you some of the ideas he's thought about.

He is testing the waters with you.

He is testing that if he comes back it won't be as the prisoner who will have to pay for his mistakes throughout the M.

My guess...he will tell you..."*** said this and I believe it." You? Stay quiet or say something like, "I've thought some of the same things."

Every once in awhile you can say to him. I've thought about what a M could be like with you. I think we could make it stronger and better and really put this behind us...

One thing that keeps a WS from coming back is the fear they will have to face their mistake every day...the sadness, guilt, and anger will never go away. The resentment will remain throughout their married life. They know what they are doing is unforgivable...but you know you have it in you to forgive him...just not until he asks for it...
But sometimes they need to know the possibility is there...like stepping on a frozen lake, he wants to know it's not going to crack under his feet...

Yes. Take the link out of your subject line. That's what's causing the page to be wider than it should.

Tarnsy,


FWIW, I don't think that this is all that unusual. This can work to your advantage, if the OW is becoming increasingly demanding and LBing.

In my Sitch, the OW really started to think of herself as the wife and me as the OW. It was really too ridiculous, since she lived 3000 miles away and my FWH never left me. But OW constantly quizzed him about what we did when we were together.

Once, when she asked him what we had done over the weekend, he mentioned that we had his brother and SIL for dinner. Well OW started freaking out and screaming at him about US having a dinner party. He said he hung up the phone.

Indeed, because I was completely unaware of his A while it was going on, I didn't really LB much at all. The more unpleasant he got, I would just walk away rather than argue wih him, and I started spending more time with my women friends. All the while, OW grew increasingly demanding and constantly badgered him to leave me. Once he tried to end the A, she became clingy and began to threaten exposure. From that point forward, it was only a matter of time until he had enough and ended the A.

Tarnsy, methinks that your WH needs that connection to you as a bit of calming normalcy in his increasingly surreal existance. I'll bet when OW finds out he has been in contact with you, that she has screaming fits.

Your Plan B will deprive him of the solice he is now getting from you. IMHO, the days of this affair are short in number. Stay calm and patient!

Bless You,

Who

Still,

spoke to WH on the phone, he said that his mate and his wife both had a go at him for leaving his family and that they were pi**sed off at him. I said that makes 3 of us then. He said "there must be more than that", I replied that I didn't know as his family seemed to support him. He said that they just wanted him to be happy ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />). I answered, "so you're out on your own then" to which he replied "yeah, out on a limb".

Will speak to him more tomorrow and get in the things you suggest.

Princessmeggy,

did what you said but can only edit my posts subject line!

Tarnsy,

That is why it is vital you make sure you secure the audience as your real H and NOT the WS when you speak to him.

As for the WS fearing to come back and face the music, I found that when I told my H that recovery included him 'facing the music' and dealing with it ALONG with helping me get closure, it gave him a goal to work towards.

I mean really, they know we are NOT going to forget so why pretend we will? If you take your H back on the terms it will never be discussed, YOU will suffer and then YOU will want to end the M.

I told my H that we (our family) loves our H and wants him to come home to heal and help us. I informed him that his fear about having the A brought up will happen and the less he participates in our recovery the more it will happen.

See? It worked. I can periodically bring up the A even now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

WhoMe,

I'm sure that OW thinks of herself as the wife in as much as she is the one he goes "home" to every night. I don't think she'd like it if she knew how much WH contacted me but then she probably doesn't! I'm sure WH is protecting her the same way he protected me when he was still at home!

Orchid,

I believe that WH is more like H than he has been, only glimpses but he's definitely in there! I reassured WH when we had our shortlived recovery and in the weeks before and after that he wouldn't be "punished" for his A. I told him I wouldn't be able to forget about it but this was a good thing as it would mean that I'd be a better wife and person as I wouldn't want to repeat the experience.

I have told him many times that we love him and want him to come home but not for a few weeks. Do you think I should repeat this statement? It just hurts when he replies, "I know".