Tarnsy,

Sounds promising. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Who

Tarnsy,

I just read your whole thread and I am so impressed with your level-headedness, your willingness to learn and your efforts to protect your DDs at all cost.

I have little time, now, but I at least wanted to make a brief comment and will continue to follow your thread.

Also, I learned something from Bob P (again) in his comment about mid-thread:


I think I will have to re-think my name. I don't use the "in-a-bucket" part now anyhow. But I was a 'bucket-case' when I first posted 8 months ago.

Blessings to you and especially Womanoffaith5 for always checking up on you and giving you such stellar advice.



And thanks to Who for telling me about your thread. I can't post during the week so it makes it difficult, but I'm glad I could read it on the weekend.

And, finally, thanks for your kind comment about seeing my posts around and looking forward to my comments. I have nothing but admiration for you and pray that your rewards are soon in arriving.

Praying for you,

Ace

Extra BIG Bump for Tarnsy.

Been thinking about you classy lady. How are you doing....?

you don't want to worry an old grandmotherly type now do you?

Who

Hi Who,

Thx for thinking of me, sorry if I caused you concern and I'm sure that you're not old!!

Had a good weekend, took DD's to a pool party near London which meant we had to get a train there and back which I was a little worried about as I knew it would be late and train stations at night are not pretty!

We had a great time, DD8 spent the whole time in the pool only coming out to eat! The girls were both well behaved and did me proud!

Sunday was DD14's(!) birthday. WH came round at 10.30 and to be honest, his absence whilst DD14 opened her presents wasn't even mentioned. Maybe we're getting used to it!

WH stayed a couple of hours and then DD14's friends came round for fun and food. DD14 thanked me lots for a great day and a good time was had by all.

I persauded WH to tell me some more of what the psychic said to him and he said that he would email it as it would be better in writing, ie; he didn't want to say it to my face!

He wrote that she had told him that he needed to spend 6mths on his own and that whoever truly loves him would stand by this and wait for him!!

He said that he can't afford to live on his own (he still pays the bills for family home) but I don't think he would do that even if he had plenty of money.

I replied that I thought he wouldn't do it as he is the type of person who needs someone to support and love him and having been on my own for nearly a year now, that I know how tough it is. Pointed out that I have been "waiting" for 10 months now and asked what does that tell you?

Part of me just wants to give up, forget about him ever coming home but then I think about how much I love him and how much my children would love to have their family complete again and I'm torn about what to do. I have been wondering how many WS's have returned to the M after living with their OP and if so how long was it before reality interfered with the fantasy.

Received an email from WH this morning telling me that he can no longer afford to pay our bills and that I need to contribute money either by getting a job (I start training as a dance instructor saturday) or by seeing if there is more money that I an entitled to claim as a single parent. He believes that I am not getting everything I should be, he could be right as I have never had to do this before! He said we will talk more saturday.

So, another roller coaster week in the life of a BS! I'm feeling a little down and pi$$ed off at the mo but I know from previous experience that it will pass. Any words of wisdom will be much appreciated.

Ace, thx for taking the time to read my thread and for your kind words.

Tarnsy,

I have no experience in plan B, but your WH has been on this fence for a long time now. It appears that he really is having some needs met by OW and the rest by you. As long as that continues, it may be a very long time before financial reality etc. set in.

I don't know the laws in UK, but I suspect that in the eyes of the authorities, you are not a single mom as you are still married, even tho your WH lives elsewhere.

Honestly, this is taking a much bigger toll on you than it is on him and only you are going to be able to change that via Plan B.

Have you given up on starting a plan B. I'm afraid for you that if you are willing to settle for crumbs from your WH, that is all he is going to give to you.

And that is no way to live.

YOu take care of yourself.

Who

Thx for the quick reply Who,

I have not given up on plan B. The letter is written and ready to go. I'm the only one holding me back. My thoughts seem to change almost daily and I am realising now that they depend on WH attitude towards me.

When he is being H and giving me hopes that he is having 2nd thoughts then I am disinclined to give him the PBL and then he is back to being WH and I just want to shove it in his face!

I know that this can't carry on and that I need to take control but I guess I'm afraid of taking that leap into the unknown.

WH is 40 on tuesday, my present thinking is to give him the PBL in his card. What do you think?

Tarnsy

I can only imagine how hard it is to take that step. I think that it certainly appears your WH just can't move in one direction or the other and right now he doesn't have to.

ALso, I don't think that he or any fogged out WS can see or even imagine how their fence sitting makes things so much worse for the BS.

I have trouble advising you on Plan B as I never had to do one, but IMHO, you have plan A'd for more than long enough.

I guess that giving him the letter in his birthday card is OK, but others here may have other, more valid recommendations.

BTW, Monday (Sept 24th) is my FWH's 41st birthday.

Stay calm and determined. I do believe that ultimately a good plan B will bring him home, not drive him away.

Who

Hi Tarnsy,

Remember Plan B is for YOU, regardless what WH thinks or does. If you are not in that mindframe, it won't work. Who is right that you need a plan B...I don't recall seeing your PBL in your thread, but I read it in one sitting so it may have been there and I missed it.

If not.....be sure you get the MB Vets to help you. It does not sound like you're ready yet.

Before you start seriously considering plan B, it might be a good idea to seek MB Veteran help with your letter and how to proceed. You can change your thread title if the first post has an 'edit' option.

I do admit I've never done Plan B, but I've been watching Sexymamabears' thread.....you might read up on her sitch first. It's called "Now eating my words" on this forum.

Is your support system in place? Do you have an intermediary? It will work if you are truly prepared emotionally and physically for it to protect what love you have for WH, regardless what he does. The darknesss is what protects. You might call out for Silentlucidity.....she just had a plan B produce the needed results.....it is hard and will take more time. But it works if you're prepared.

(It protects the love you have left and shows WH what he is really missing when you're gone due to darkness while there's still time ~ maybe ~ for him to de-fogg.)

It sounds like his request for 6 months' permission to fence sit is a "one last fling with OW" smokescreen. You HAVE been waiting for 10 months.....how much more does he need. It's fog speak......you would wait forever...until your love totally died and then it would be over.

IF you want to save your M, don't let him call the shots....act now before your tolerance, endurance and love for him is totally depleted.

RE: finances......total bull. He not only wants you to allow him to cake eat, he wants you to subsidize it.

If you can't change your title, it might be a good time to seriously start a new thread saying "Tarnsy needs Help With Plan B Letter etc." and then link it to this thread. Neither Who or I have that experience and she's not around much today.

I'm praying for you,
Ace

P.S. I also pray that if I've given you any advice that needs tweaking, that other MB posters will correct it. I won't be able to post much today either.

Tarnsy ~

I don't know your story, but Who asked me to post to you...

I also Plan A'ed my H for 10 months, but we were in FALSE RECOVERY ~ he was telling me the A was over, but it wasn't. I can't imagine how hard it must be to Plan A when he is ACTIVELY having an A.

Tarnsy, because of this I am seriously worried about your mental health, and that your WH's cruelness is going to kill any remaining love you have for him...and that if you ever DO get into recovery, the ANGER and RESENTMENT that you are going to feel because of his cruelty and selfishness are going to make recovery VERY hard.

It has for me, that's why I am telling you this.

Plan B is for YOU, Tarnsy...to get strong, to make changes in yourself that will BETTER your marriage if/when you get into recovery.

But it also will remove you from meeting your H's ENs, and that will give him a good taste of what life will be like with OW alone trying to meet his ENs. And she WILL fail. It is quite obvious that he really likes you meeting his ENs.

Tarnsy, I really encourage you to go to Plan B. I felt SO GOOD once I did. The hardest part is DOING it....but once you are there, it is a nice relief.

~MF

Who,

Hope your FWH has a good birthday, I don't think my WH is looking forward to turning 40. Do you think your FWH's A had anything to do with a MLC?

Ace,

My PBL is on page 11 of this thread. Intermediary is in place. I know that plan B is for me and will ultimately give me piece of mind but it is just that whenever I think that my heart and my head are in sync, something happens to make me wonder if they really are. Like this weekend, but more about that in abit.

MF,

Thanks for looking in on me and voicing your concerns. TBH, I haven't found plan A that difficult to do with WH not living here, I think it would have been alot harder had he still been at home. As it is, the only EN's I can fulfill are convo (which is quite important to WH), admiration (which would be near the top of his list) and emotional support. I know that I need to make sure that I enter plan B at the right time, before my LB empties but as I mentioned above, something always occurs to make me rethink if the time is right.

Will be back later to let you know what occured over the weekend.

Tarnsy

WH picked up myself and DD8 from dancing at 11am and drove us home to pick up DD14. WH planned to take them to the park but ended up staying here til 2.30. They came back at 6pm with new DVD's and WH stayed again to watch one of the films. It was all quite strange, WH was relaxed and it was almost like the old days. DD14 commented that WH kept looking at my "lady bumps" but I have to say that I didn't notice!

Sunday, WH turned up looking pi$$ed off. I asked what was wrong, got a rather gruff "nothing" in reply. I said "you mean nothing you want to talk to me about" WH replied "not really".

He then volunteered the information that no-one could help him as no-one had been in this situation. Asked him which situation that was and he replied, the one he found himself in. I told him that he didn't find himself in this sitch, he created it, to which he replied "I don't mean the whole sitch, just the part where my DD's aren't allowed to meet OW".

So yet again, reminder WH it was DD's decision to not meet OW and that it wasn't fair to blame me for this. He said that they had wanted to meet her initially (back in Jan, I think they said they would but they were being pressured by WH, MIL and FIL) but reminded him that this was before they knew the truth of how long WH and OW had been seeing each other.

WH told me that OW is going to dump him unless he sorts it out. Told him this is not about what she wants but about DD's. Told him that his fantasy of playing happy families with my kids every other weekend was not going to happen.What does he expect me to do, say OK then, take DD's to meet OW so that you can save your adulterous relationship?

I said "you've obviously had an arguement with OW and it's not fair for you to bring your anger out on me", (he denied that they'd argued - yeah right!) "you were alright yesterday so something was said". I took some of Orchids advice and told him that if he was going to carry on giving me his crap to deal with and continue to be in wayward mode he could leave now but if wants to talk to me as my H then he can stay. This shut him up and the subject was changed.

Wh was here for 2hrs before leaving and as he and DD's were about to leave, DD14 again said that she didn't want to go. She and I had a disagreement again (any help on how to resolve this greatly appreciated) about doing things that others want to do, but this time she got to me with some name calling. I kept calm with her but had to walk away from the sitch before I cried in front of everyone.

WH realised something was wrong and came over to give me hug and tell me not to cry (the first time he has touched me for 3mths!). WH and DD's left to go swimming at which point the floodgates opened.

WH and DD's came home and relaxed in the living room looking for all intents and purposes like a "normal" family, watching tv and playing games on the WII, whilst I cooked dinner. I did invite WH to stay but he declined. As WH left I told him to have a good evening, He raised his eyebrows and gave me a look that said "I doubt it" so I wished him good luck. And for the first time in 3mths I got a kiss and a hug goodbye.

So, will OW dump WH? I don't think she will. She obviously thinks that I'm stopping DD's from meeting her so she would see it as "losing" to me.

If she does, what do I do next? I've always said to myself that I wouldn't take him back if she ended it as it seems to me that "I" would find that harder to recover from. Would I be able to cope with the thought that if she came back on the scene that WH would run back? The feeling of being 2nd best, that he only came home because OW threw him out? I don't know.

WH will be here later to pick up DD's so will find out then whether the A is over or not. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Tarnsy

Hi Tarnsy,



Sorry I missed your PBL...does this weekend change it?

I'm not sure what I would do in your sitch. What if she dumps him and you reject him, too.... but change your mind later?

Regrets...hmmmmm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ...I guess you could always remarry him. Just a thought.

Ace

Tarnsy,

I don't get what the OW's obsession with having a relationship with your DD's seems to be about really.

I guess what I am wondering is if maybe your WH isn't using this as an excuse for the affair ending rather than the truth.

The male ego is weird and I don't think we women folk can always make any sense of it.

Initially, right after d-day, my FWH preferred that I think that the affair ended because OW made him chose between she and I and he chose me.

The reality was that OW had threatened him into remaining in the affair and he was afraid of her and of what she would do. He was ashamed that he hadn't manned up to her instead of letting her make him dance to her tune for three months after he first tried to end the A.

FWIW, IMHO I still think that you need to plan B him so that he gets a glimps of what a Tarnsy free life will look like. He has been sitting on the fence eating cake long enough. Perhaps that dose of reality might bring him home before OW has a chance to boot him out.

Who

Hey Tarnsy,

I just wanted to add my 2.5 cents,, I feel the reason she wants a relationship with your daughters is because she doesn't like all the time he spends with the girls at your house. Didn't you write that he has stayed and watched the Grand Prix, he has stayed and ate dinner? If I was to bet on it I'd say she doesn't like him being out of her sight and with the the wife. She is feeling threaten, or at the very least it's a control issue on her end.

Just my very humble opinion, take it for whatever it is worth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />... F-26

Hi F-26, thx for taking the time to post.

You could well be right but I'm betting that WH doesn't tell OW that he stays at the house as long or as often as he does. OW is probably told that he takes DD's out all day which is what is supposed to happen. I know if I was OW I wouldn't like to think that he was with his W!

Hi Who and Ace,

I have been keeping away from the boards as I have been a little depressed the last couple of weeks and reading the posts of people going though what I was a while ago only succeeds in bringing it all back to me. Hopefully soon I will feel able to give support and advice to those who are struggling in those awful early days.

To carry on from my last post, OW did not dump WH. Not that I thought she would but WH obviously felt the need to tell me this to keep me dangling.

Gave WH a card for his birthday with lovely words that I edited to give it more emphasis on the past. DD14 edited her card as well as it said something along the lines of "thankyou for being a great dad who is always there for us", she crossed out "is" and put "was".

WH sent me an email saying that this upset him but told him she was expressing the truth how she see's it.

Have not had much contact with WH, deliberately, I guess trying to prepare myself for when I go to Plan B. In fact I have found myself thinking of Plan D on more than one occassion which is something that I haven't thought about for months. I don't want a D but now that he has been gone for almost a year I wonder if I'm wasting my time.

Plus I have read a few of the threads on recovery and it seems so daunting! Even a few of the vet's here seem to be going through some tough times 2-3 yrs after Dday. Altho I realised that none of this would be easy I'm asking myself if I'm up to the job.

Hi Tarnsy,

I saw that you were on the forum and was about to post to you. I know that you are familiar with what plan A and plan B are and why you go to plan B.

IMHO, you are long overdue for plan B and having so effectively plan A's for sooooo long, I believe that you may be starting to lose your love for your WH. Which is probably why you are leaning more towards plan D right now.

You might want to launch an immediate plan B effort for a specific length of time, say 3 months, to give your WH a preview of life without you. If that doesn't bring him home to you, then I would certainly move to plan D, but that's just my opinion and this is your life.

You are correct that recovery is no picnic. It has been the most difficult thing I have ever had to do in my life and I still occasionally, though not very frequently anymore, wonder if I would have been better off not bothering.

Your WH is a classic fence sitter and you are going to have to make him pick a side of the fence.

Please take care of yourself.

Who

I agree with Who......sorry it's so tough. Posting your thoughts (or at least journaling them somewhere) will help.

Ace

Tarnsy

You are right recovery is not fun,, I've wondered many times in my almost 5 yr journey if it was going to be worth it and if I was or had done the right thing. Should I have just cut my losses back in 2002 when he started the I love you but..crap. But either I was too stubborn or just too dumb I kept fighting and holding on, sometimes just day by day and others hour by hour. But I could't quit on him or on us. I prayed and prayed for wisdom, guidance, STRENGTH, and endurance, when I wanted to quit (many, many times)I just felt like God was saying " be still and know that I am God". That gave me hope, and I'd keep plugging along.

I think I had posted to that my hubby lived with the OW for 8.5 months, and he fenced sat for a good year when he came home.

Things are so different now I have the marriage I've always wanted, I have grown so much, I love my husband like I never knew possible. I just never give up on him. (again either too stubborn or dumb LOL) Just the other day he came in with the new Rascall Flatts CD and he played me a song off of that CD called Everyday and it goes "You could have bowed out gracefully but you didn't, you knew enough to know to leave well enough alone but you wouldn't......everyday you save my life"

You have to do what you think is best for you and your children, but, I just want to encourage you that even when it looks so dark there is still hope. I wish I could reach out and give you a big old hug, but I guess a cyber hug is the best I can do ((Tarnsy))

I'll keep you in my prayers,, F-26

F-26,

Your post has indeed given me some hope! I have often wondered if there are many WS's who return home after living with the OP. I have failed to find many instances of this here and have not seen your story. You are proof that there is still hope for WH to come to his senses! Thankyou for the hope and the hug!

Who and Ace,

I know I need to go to plan B before it's too late and thankyou for all your advice and encouragement. I don't know what it is that is holding me back. I know that it will bring me peace and relief from the turmoil but it still scares me.

I have read the threads of others who are in plan B at the mo and it seems that it brings out the worst in the WS even pushing them to D perhaps sooner than they would have. I know that plan B is "for me" but lets face it, it's a last ditch attempt at getting the WS to see what it is they are giving up.

Maybe that's what it is that I'm scared of, that plan B is my last chance and if it doesn't bring WH home then that is it and D is inevitable. Yeah, I think that is what frightens me (lightbulb moment for Tarnsy!).

Thx everyone again, I really do appreciate you all taking the time to post.

Tarnsy

hey hon,,

Please don't beat yourself up on doing or not doing a plan "B". Everyone kept telling me I was letting him have his cake and eat it too, including my pastor. I just couldn't do it, I couldn't let go of the last string that I felt held me to him. Was it fear of totally losing him? Was it stubborness that I was not going to let "her" have him, I don't know..both maybe. But, I do know when you are ready to draw that line in the sand you will know it and you will do it!

F-26