This question here is where I sometimes call BS (not betrayed spouse but instead bull "manure"). I do believe in the addictive nature of affairs and all that goes with it.

BUT sometimes I think the wayward spouse MUST hang on to the affair partner and do so because of PRIDE, nothing more.

Otherwise they risk being called;
an idiot, loser, "I told you you moron that she/he was bad news", Everyone saw this but you, does that make you stupid or what", "Your WS got lucky when you left you dumb azz", "Other woman/man was a real catch now wasn't she goober"

Real or imagined, I think the WS thinks the whole world will be laughing at them and taking delight in their misery if they don't make the one thing they gave up everything else for work. I think this is why you see some marry the OP, stay with the OP for things that would have been umimaginable in the marriage to the BS.

My father cheated on my mother, with a married woman. I was young but I remember bits and pieces of what I heard during that time. She heaved him out for 2 weeks and exposed the affair to OWH. After 2 weeks she took him back. Eventually he cheated with the same OMW again. This time she turfed him out for good (I was 7 then).

My father then moved in with a co-worker for a while, and then in with another woman (not the A partner), who was also divorced or separated. 3 years later they married. 4 years after that, I was supposed to stay at my father's while my mom was out of town, and he was reluctant to take me there. He was going to drop me off at my house (alone) and pick me up in the morning to take me to work (I was 17 by then). I insisted that this was *not* the arrangement that my mother had understood would take place (I did not want to stay home alone) - so he took me back to his place. When we got there, police were there - seems that his wife's son (about 13 or so at the time) had got drunk and was found passed out on a bike path. Neighbours, cops, everybody running in and out of the house. His wife freaked out all over my father that he'd bring me there (I'd been there many times before) and she screamed at him to take me back to my town, "where he'd been sleeping"! WHUT???

I let my dad come home with me, he stayed overnight at my mom's house (a secret I'd vowed to take to the grave as mom would not have approved - but it came out later anyway).

A couple of weeks later my MOTHER received a 40-page affadavit from dad's second wife's attorney naming my MOTHER as my father's affair partner!!!! Heck they couldn't stand being in the same county together at one time, never mind sleeping together!

My father was in yet another affair, and to protect his mistress (who was also married), he named my mother as his affair partner when his second wife filed for divorce.

Talk about drama!

The real kicker is - I knew his affair partner. She was a co-worker - married with 4 adult children (some of whom still lived at home). I'd seen my father out and about with her - but it never clicked. In fact, my father brought my sister and I to dinner at his mistress' home - to dine with her HUSBAND and CHILDREN. Imagine the cajones that took?!

I wasn't privy to all that went on -but I did know about the affadavit and how preposterous it was. Mom went totally ballistic about it and had it thrown out. I don't know if he had to name his real partner or not...but the divorce from the second wife was UGLY. My mom got the house and $100/month child support (which she often had to have garnisheed off his pay check). The second wife got half the equity in the condo they owned, PLUS $700/month in alimony/child support. The kids weren't his but she had quit her job and the father of her kids didn't pay - so the court saw fit that my father should maintain them in the lifestyle to which they'd become accustomed. Howdja like them apples? He ended up paying for his stepdaughter's medical school.

Meanwhile when he got turfed out of his second marriage, he lived in a roach motel for a few weeks, then got an apartment. Each time I visited him, that lady co-worker was there - decorating and stuff. Hmmm... I began to put 2 and 2 together. It seemed that she never went "home" anymore.

I finally asked about it - and I got the whole speech from her - "Your father and I were never together in 'that way' until after we were divorced" (Yeah - right!) I told her I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

Funny - things went south between my father and I after that (or maybe not so funny). Seems that her adult children were more important than my sister and I (this happened a lot during those years after my parents split).

My father and I were on-again-off-again for many years - his wife wasn't interested in us, and did a lot to keep coming between us - and he let it. Ah but when her youngest son (2 or 3 years older than me) got in some hot water with a cocaine dealer - my father paid the $7K ransom on her son's kneecaps.

That was over 20 years ago now. My father has been on-again-off-again during those years with me. He did eventually marry this one - I voiced my opposition to it and got exiled again. No biggie. Every now and then he surfaces - he was somewhat present for the first 7 years of my DD (and 5 of DS) lives, then I must have done something to piss him off again.

He resurfaced a year or so ago when his mother died (pang of conscience) but I'm over it - I'll speak to him, be polite and cordial, but as far as I'm concerned that bridge is burned and he's not a real father to me and hasn't been for most of my life. His loss. He's got 2 great daughters and four awesome grandkids. Oh well - guess he will never know what he's missing, right?

A few years ago I found out he's had prostate cancer. Now he's impotent.

I never wished him any harm, but I had to consider the irony in all that. He never could keep it in his pants (his current W and last affair partner was joined at the hip to him - I guess so - to make sure he didn't cheat on HER)... but I couldn't help but ponder that the Karma Bus had stopped at his door. Couldn't keep it in his pants - now he can't get it up.

JinGA

Hopeandpray,

I think you have hit on what is at the heart of a lot of affair marriages. I have watched my WH commit to a clingy, demanding woman with two young children (WH always said he didn't want any more children after we had DD2), who has no income to speak of (SAHM with only part time work), who hasn't even filed for divorce from her current husband. However, "They are soulmates and he will wait for her no matter how long it takes". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The only reason I can think of that a sane person would do something like that is pride. You know what they say about pride....it goeth before a fall. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My brother married his affair partner and lasted about 14 years until she left him for someone else last year. He did say many times that he was not as happy with her as he thought that he would be, and that he made a mistake by leaving my xSIL. My xSIL went on to marry someone who is wonderful and rich, so she definitely had the last laugh.

My xBoss married his affair partner and have been together (they say happily) for over 13 years. She had 5 grown children, and he had 2 grown children when they left their spouses for each other. My boss did tell me once though that he was continually haunted by what he did to his XW. He said somedays it comes over him like a "black cloud"

Since most marriages aren't perfect, I'm sure those have trouble too, but I do think that pride won't let them admit that it isn't what they thought it would be.

My WH is in an A with a twice divorced, twice filed bankruptcy, has a gambling problem OW. Bewilders me because we have been married 34 years (known each other since grade school), both have worked hard, have a nice house and nest egg, and I thought had a good marriage. We were the perfect upper middle class subdivision, soccer coaching, caring-for-the-lawn, decorating-the-house couple. The rug certainly was pulled out from under me!!

It's hard for me to believe that he will leave me for that life, but I think that is what is going to happen. I doubt that it will work long term, but evidently he has found his soulmate....

I bumped a thread for you Knitgirl

Wife-land vs Turd-land

I know a lot of stories. There are no real happy endings to an A. The OP and WS live in a fantasy world. Even if they marry there is always that lingering doubt of what if.....

The story I'll share is about an A, one that lasted years. It didn't result in a M, it resulted in a suicide, then there was recovery. This story is about my grandmother..... her 1st H was kind of a weak spineless guy. He moved here (Hawaii) before the 1920's to work on the land.... he lived with is Uncle and Aunt (aunt by marriage). The aunt was a domineering woman and demanded her rent be paid by sex... (or so I hear).

My grandmother was brought over as a picture bride (as most were in those days). Grandma and her 1st H married and for the a while (a few months I think), they lived with the uncle and aunt until they could get their own place. Then they had 3 daughters. It was when the 3rd daugther was born that this 'aunt' also had a child.... a son. Being the dutiful wife, my grandmother visited this aunt to offer her congratulations (seems having a son vs a daugther and the fact the aunt was older with a new child.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ), well.... grandma carried her 3 little ones and sat with a group of local ladies visiting this 'aunt' and her new born son. The 2 babies were about a month apart (or less...not sure).

There was gossip going on but what happened next no one was prepared for. This 'aunt' supposedly was not able to nurse properly. My grandmother (who was in her early 20s) was nursing her new born also.... the aunt asked my grandmother in front of the other local women visiting to please nurse her new born son.

Out of respect, my grandmother obliged. While nursing the baby, the aunt asked my grandmother who she thought the baby (aunt's son) looked like. My grandmother replied.... 'he looks like uncle'. The 'aunt' laughed.... she said 'uncle was ugly that the baby boy cute as he was looked more like.... the nephew (grandma's H) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ......the aunt had a hideous laugh that made everyone's skin crawl. She was a wicked woman to the day she died.

My grandmother then knew all her hunches were correct....the A had been going on before their M and after. The baby it seemed looked a lot like grandma's 2nd daughter who looked a lot like her dad.

My grandmother pulled the nursing child away from her. The baby cried. She gently but firmly handed the baby to another lady sitting by her. Grandma picked up her children and left. I am not sure if someone walked her home but I recall the 'aunt' laughed. How cruel.

That OC turned out t/b a nice person. He and the rest of our family knew the story. He apologized along with the rest of his family for the assinine acts of his mom (the aunt). My grandmother eventually forgave him.

Grandma's 1st H committed suicide shortly after. From what we learned 1st H was forced to have sex with the aunt. I know this doesn't make sense but there were several who confirmed....she was a tough broad. Even her own H was scared of her. Creepy or what.

Remember this was an arranged M of which my grandma had no say. So after all this happened..... a while later my grandfather showed interest in my very young and cute grandmother. She had 3 girls and was working odd jobs to make ends meet (no welfare in those days)..... they moved in together had 2 boys...then married. My dad was son #3 and then they had 1 more.....my grandfather was a hard working man but died when his children were quite young (hernia)...... so my grandma was widowed again.

After all this, my grandmother said the most difficult thing to deal with was the death of her 3rd daughter (hodgkins disease - sp???).

I never met my grandfather (he died when my dad was 3 years old). I am told he was a good man. My grandma was an awesome lady who learned to survive many types of situations. It was my pleasure to know such a great lady.

Affairs..... they suck, they hurt. They should never be.

Still despite them all we can survive. My grandmother did and for that I am grateful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I must be having a brain cramp, because I'm not sure what you mean by "bumped a thread" Is that a good thing?? If so thanks!!!

When a new post is added it gets "bumped" to the top of the board again. Meaning - it's more visible.

The thread that Pep bumped for you was from earlier this year - thus buried in the archives unless somebody "bumped" it back up.

HTH

JinGA

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> to "bump" a thread means to bring it to the top of the forum for someone to see

the thread I bumped was Wife-land vs Turd-land

*HERE IS THE LINK *

Growing up I lived in a two family dwelling, the couple who lived next door was a product of an affair, she had lived with her mother-in-law and her ex-h is the one who brought home the man that would soon break up his marriage, I didn't know all this at the time, just found them to be exciting, (I was all of 12) even babysat for her, her child from her marriage.

Well let me tell you they did fight alot with each other and yes he did go and cheat on her with the daughter of our next door neighbor, my mom found a note taped to the door that( informing neighbor that his gf was home that day) which she ripped down....... but as much fun as they seem to have they did go there separate ways, you can't party forever, lloking back now I really don't think that she was happy with what she did end up with.

It's always in the eyes.

REad it and loved it!! Sorry to be dumb - I'll get used to the lingo as I keep posting on this thing.

Do some of you work for MB? I ask because some of you have so many posts and seem to take such good care of the rest of us. Especially Pepper - you said that you are recovered for 11 years, so wondered why you were still on the site. Just curious.....

I do not.


Paying it forward ... I believe in marriage ... and I know this set of marriage tools works !

Does Pep work for MB?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Nah! She's just a woman who's too stubborn to leave! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Heehee <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Knitgirl, there are a few of us old folks here (Orchid, JustLearning, BrambleRose, myself to name a few) who have been here for years because it's one way that we help others survive in a place where others helped US to survive.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I have been here since Sept. 11, 2000. My exH left Feb. 3, 1999 to live with OW and I lurked for a year! Since then, I have learned SO MUCH, and I personally come back because I passionately believe in marriage and I have the knowledge to help some people recover after an affair.

Well I guess when my WAW told me that she wanted to see if anything better was out there, odds are one of these stories is in her future!

And she also laid on me the "I was fat before and now I look good, I thought I had to settle being with you!"
This was after a boob job and a tummy tuck that WAW had in November 2004.

Talking about a cold woman! Ouch!

bump

Well, I think that all of you "old-timers" are wonderful. That's a long time to hang around. It just confirms my feeling that I have found the right place for help. I hope that after I get through this I can help and support someone else too.

Thanks to all of you!! Do you take donations? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know the details of two affairs that led to long term marriages.

One of my friends has told me about her uncle. He was married, started an affair, divorced his wife and married OW. My friend has told me that OW turned out to be a nice person, everyone in the family loved her and she was showing a lot of remorse over the way their marriage had started. They were married for 10 years or so and then her husband started an affair, divorced her and moved in with his new OW. I guess that his new wife should be worried about what will happen when they have been married for 10 years or so but maybe she thinks that their marriage is more special than his last two.

The other story I know is about my uncle. He married his first wife when they both were young and she was four months pregnant at the wedding. I don’t remember their family or their marriage since I was only two years old when he left his wife. He had started an affair with a woman in his workplace who was divorced with three children. Her ex husband was an alcoholic. Everyone in our family were chocked, especially my grandmother. His two teenage daughters swore to never speak to him again and told everyone that they hated OW. My uncle divorced his wife and after the divorce was final he married OW. The first time I met her was at their wedding when I was four years old. She was beautiful, always friendly and caring for her family and I understand why my uncle fell for her. They moved in with her children and lived together for 12 years. Then she fell ill from cancer which was spreading throughout her body. She was in a hospital for 1 ½ years, getting chemo therapy which made her loose her long dark hair. My uncle was watching over her day and night and even learned to interpret x-ray pictures to look for tumours. The last time I met her she was lying in a bed at the hospital, bald and skinny but still bright and happy to see me. Everyone in our family went to her funeral and even my uncle’s children were there, grieving for her. In this case the affair marriage was as happy as any other marriage and lasted until death parted them. But of course 12 years is not a very long marriage and I don’t know if my uncle would have left his new wife if he had found someone even more attractive. I will never know that but what I do know is that he cared for her and for her children also through bad times.

But I think the general opinion is that relationships that start out as affairs do not last long, at least that is when everyone I have talked to says. Another one of my friends (actually a friend of WH) even described the affair relationship as a rosy fantasy world which is not likely to last when reality kicks in.

What I think is more worrisome is that many people do not want a marriage for life, especially not when they start an affair. I have been posting at another web board and I have read stories about people who have left their husband or wife (it is mostly women posting) for OP and they have been happy for two or three years and those years of intense feelings made it worth scarifying their family and in many cases their children. They justify their selfish choices with arguments like “if the mother is happy the children will be happy” and “it is not good for children to grow up in a family where the parents do not love each other”. I don’t know if they were ever really committed to their marriages but the attitude that all that counts is their own temporary happiness is scary to me.

My FOM was married for seven years before he had an A with his current W. He didn't leave his first W because of "the kids" but ended up with his second W after his first W left him five years later.

My A with OM started around eight years into his M with his second W, his A partner from his first M. Up to that point, he had another EA/PA before me, as well as an EA before that. He was also pursuing his current W's best friend when our A started.

I don't know if time has anything to do with it. On the outside, I'm sure most of FOM's friends and family think he's only had one A... me. According to FOM and his second W, no one knows about their A besides me. FOM confessed his other As to me over the course of our three year A. I told his W about the two before me, and she told me about her best friend. I'm sure most folks think he's just been unfaithful once, as I know they are trying to work on their M.

Also, I'm convinced that OM had another A during his first M with a friend's girlfriend. He didn't admit it, but from the stories he told me, I pretty much pieced it together.

The big problem with marrying a cheater is that they.....cheat. I always just shake my head in amazement when someone in an affair marriage complains that their spouse......cheats. They picked a cheater so they hardly have a right to complain. In those cases, I believe the main issue is not the cheating, but acceptance of the consequences of ones choices. ["but I thought I could change him!" <----DUH!]

Isn't it funny how every affair partner somehow thinks that theirs is different, not like all the others, special, found soul mate, someone who finally understand me, and all of that other crap? Everyone seems to know the truth but them...