Are there any of your XH/XW's who have chosen the OP over their M and are living happily ever after? Is the grass really greener?

Is the grass really greener?

Have you read anything here???

My WH has chosen the OW over our M. He told me awile ago that this year has been a year of no conflict for him. Guess he means no nagging wife and kids, just happiness with OW.

I have read here that most A's don't last. His has lasted over a year already, they've been living together all that time. Guess the grass is greener for him and he'll be in that 3% bracket where the A's last.

Well my XH chose fence-sitting rather than reconciliation, so I chose divorce. It wasn't an affair - we were separated, but I tried before the D to patch things up, and he wouldn't commit. He was doing some bizarre things financially and otherwise, so I did what I had to do to protect myself.

She moved here with him, she moved back home and he's planning a vacation to visit her.

I had a R post-M too - and that grass was NOT greener either. That's why I'm here - to fix myself and if it's at all possible, to repair my marriage, post divorce.

My grass wasn't greener, and from what I've seen of XH's R, it wasn't greener there either.

I see that now, but I don't know if he does - or ever will. That's what I'm trying to find out. In fact I tried to get together with him to talk about things tonight and put my feelings out there - and I couldn't reach him to get together...

The grass is only greener over the septic tank - Erma Bombeck

JinGA

Lol, I know, but I was just asking.

Is it possible? I guess. Not likely.
Unfortunately, I can use my own mother as an example here.
She engaged in an affair with a younger man who promised her the world while my father (a career Navy officer) was assigned to a ship.
She moved out, left my older brother and I to essentially fend for ourselves (I was in high school and he was about 20 or so)--it was tough, but we both had jobs and made do as best we could.
That was in 1983.
She is still with the OM, ruined many relationships, burned many bridges, causing so much devastation and pain.
I can tell you that they are both miserable, neither can stand the other, and I have no doubt the OM has had several affairs even after marrying my mother. She, on the other hand, drowns her sorrows in alcohol.
My father, after almost losing himself to alcoholism in his pain, remarried and today is a happy, doting grandfather. Ironically, all those things the OM promised my mother, my father has and is leading a life of joy. He is so deserving.
My mother has almost no relations with any of my 3 siblings, it's so sad. I will not trust her to care for my own children, and I have seen her perhaps 5 or 6 times in the last year--she lives in my same town.
I am sorry to say that the one thing I carry with me to this day from growing up is that I trust no one completely, not even my wife who I love dearly.
I am glad that my father followed the Lord and he carries this happiness with him every day.
As to my mother, I only have pity for a life squandered.

I don't wish ill upon my WW, as much as I know that statistically I have a better chance of being hit by a flying cow as she does living happily ever after with Roger Ramjet, LOL.

But seriously, I actually hope she does find what she’s looking for, because my WW is totally lost in the wilderness right now. Moreover, and speaking from a selfish standpoint with the best interests of my kids at heart, if she remarries, I’m going to push for child support, something she can’t do at present time.

If life gives you lemons, squeeze. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm sure there are those out there who marry the affair partner and make it work out. That's certainly possible.

But don't kid yourself. Nobody lives "happily ever after". That's a fantasy. The fact is, we all wake up with bear breath, throw our socks on the floor, and have crabby days.

Even Elvis.

SB

Oh no!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> There goes MY fantasy. (JK! I did grow up in Memphis though... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />)

We once used a graffito (a single item written on a wall of graffiti which is the plural and actually refers to the entire collection) that I wish I could figure out how to do here. The best I can do is describe it.

We would write out the phrase "The grass IS greener on the other side."

But the phrase was written backwards.

We thought we were clever because we could write backwards, but the meaning is clear.

Mark

My favorite graffiti was this exchange - which was written on the wall in Lubbock, TX

"Is there intelligent life on Earth?"

I couldn't resist writing back....

"Yes, but I'm only visiting."

SB

What's that handy and true saying around MB?

Oh yeah...

The grass is always greener where it is watered and tended with care...

period.

Makes either side equal...and what you invest in, will thrive.

Affair partners don't invest, and they don't thrive. Their wayward state of mind continues...

Until it doesn't.

Just like fantasy...can't outlast reality.

Reality wins in the end.

What's that other part...oh, yeah...the side WS's are on turns brown...from the lack of focus, care and commitment...and the WS looks down and says, "See! It's brown!" and the BS's job is to say..."Yes, it is...because you've pi$$'d all over it!"

And I believe, that's what they do in their next marriage, and their next one after that.

LA

P.S. ROFLMAO, Schoolbus...good one! Now...off to jail with you!

Oh Mark! You're TRICKY!

Shes_Great, I personally believe that the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence, but that's because the yard is covered in do-do. After all, it is [color:"brown"]TURDLAND[/color] over there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

In the course of my first M, my exH engaged in a total of 13 A. If the grass was really greener, one of them would have worked out. He had a total of three "big A" (meaning moving in together, long-ish term), and he broke up with all three of them as soon as there was anything other than "perfect fantasy" in the R; #1 she spent all his money and had none of her own--when he ran out of $$ she left him. IMAGINE THAT <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> #2 had four kids under the age of 8yo. The first time he had to stay with the kids alone, he SCREAMED at them and she broke up with him. IMAGINE THAT <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> #3 was also bipolar just like he was, and when they were manic together it was a force of nature. But one day they were ANGRY manic and abusive toward each other, and she told him to get the expletive out. IMAGINE THAT <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Since the divorce, he's been in several R all with similar endings. Who could have foreseen that being single and free would be less green than being committed with a loving wife and family? Hmmmm.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

The grass is definitely [color:"brown"]BROWNER[/color] on the other side of the fence!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hey, I think that one ended up with my XH! Except she dumped him in April but she's still hanging on - I think she still smells money! (And I think she's still getting it).

JinGA

Well...let's see...

Four kids by four different men in 2001. It would appear that she DOES get around!! Maybe it IS the same OW!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Well my XH GF came with 2 baby, 2 baby daddy. My DD is quite sure that there is another baby, another baby daddy, based on conversations with the younger child who talked about her "sisters". From what the child told *me*, she's an aunt. I don't think her mother is biologically old enough to have an older daughter of child-bearing years, so that "niece" must be from a half-sibling by the same father as her (confused yet?) If that boyfriend was much older, he probably had older kids.

I figure when the gravy train is finally done (and XH has been broke for most of the last year, despite a good income and reasonable property settlment/child support arrangement) - the GF will find another sucker. Given the apparent track record, she's good at that. It's been almost 2 years, I'm sure she's close to being done with him, she's probably giving him one last squeeze to see what else she can get.

She lived with him for a year, with her kids, left her kids with him alone for a week at Christmas (family emergency) then went back home for "follow up" for 6 weeks, leaving her kids with XH - then 3 days after she returned, she told him she was moving back home and left 2 weeks later.

Why XH hangs on to this, I have NO idea.

JinGA

What an interesting question....

Hmmmmm.

My first marriage ended in divorce because of XH's A with his mom's best friend. He married a much younger girl weeks after our D was final (not the bf he'd had the A with...) and THAT divorce is imminent now, although they lasted many years.

A friend of mine was the WW who eventually married the OW/WH. They're doing fine, but have NO remorse over their A. They believe that they have TRUE love. Whatever... but they've lasted well over ten years or so and have a thriving happy family. *shrug*

My DH's OW, I fear, is one that WILL cheat again. She still hasn't admitted her other A's to her H. She admitted one to my H (that she still denies to her H) and my H has also discovered another one that OW had. So... serial cheater.

But I will still believe "once a cheater, always a cheater". BUT, he's a reformed cheater. I'll do my best to help him stay that way, and so will he!

My ex-H is married to the OW/now wife. They've been married for 2+ years and I hear thru the grapevine they've recently started seeing a therapist.

I'm no expert, but do you think someone in their "newlywed" years should be seeing a counselor so soon.

NO!

I'm still in my second year of M to my huney, and I am head-over-heels, ecstatically in love with him!! *love sick sigh*

I think seeing a counselor in their "newlywed" years is not a good sign. IMAGINE THAT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Who could have foreseen a commitment that started as an affair that DIDN'T LAST?? hmmm....

Good stories, keep them coming!

This question here is where I sometimes call BS (not betrayed spouse but instead bull "manure"). I do believe in the addictive nature of affairs and all that goes with it.

BUT sometimes I think the wayward spouse MUST hang on to the affair partner and do so because of PRIDE, nothing more.

Otherwise they risk being called;
an idiot, loser, "I told you you moron that she/he was bad news", Everyone saw this but you, does that make you stupid or what", "Your WS got lucky when you left you dumb azz", "Other woman/man was a real catch now wasn't she goober"

Real or imagined, I think the WS thinks the whole world will be laughing at them and taking delight in their misery if they don't make the one thing they gave up everything else for work. I think this is why you see some marry the OP, stay with the OP for things that would have been umimaginable in the marriage to the BS.

My father cheated on my mother, with a married woman. I was young but I remember bits and pieces of what I heard during that time. She heaved him out for 2 weeks and exposed the affair to OWH. After 2 weeks she took him back. Eventually he cheated with the same OMW again. This time she turfed him out for good (I was 7 then).

My father then moved in with a co-worker for a while, and then in with another woman (not the A partner), who was also divorced or separated. 3 years later they married. 4 years after that, I was supposed to stay at my father's while my mom was out of town, and he was reluctant to take me there. He was going to drop me off at my house (alone) and pick me up in the morning to take me to work (I was 17 by then). I insisted that this was *not* the arrangement that my mother had understood would take place (I did not want to stay home alone) - so he took me back to his place. When we got there, police were there - seems that his wife's son (about 13 or so at the time) had got drunk and was found passed out on a bike path. Neighbours, cops, everybody running in and out of the house. His wife freaked out all over my father that he'd bring me there (I'd been there many times before) and she screamed at him to take me back to my town, "where he'd been sleeping"! WHUT???

I let my dad come home with me, he stayed overnight at my mom's house (a secret I'd vowed to take to the grave as mom would not have approved - but it came out later anyway).

A couple of weeks later my MOTHER received a 40-page affadavit from dad's second wife's attorney naming my MOTHER as my father's affair partner!!!! Heck they couldn't stand being in the same county together at one time, never mind sleeping together!

My father was in yet another affair, and to protect his mistress (who was also married), he named my mother as his affair partner when his second wife filed for divorce.

Talk about drama!

The real kicker is - I knew his affair partner. She was a co-worker - married with 4 adult children (some of whom still lived at home). I'd seen my father out and about with her - but it never clicked. In fact, my father brought my sister and I to dinner at his mistress' home - to dine with her HUSBAND and CHILDREN. Imagine the cajones that took?!

I wasn't privy to all that went on -but I did know about the affadavit and how preposterous it was. Mom went totally ballistic about it and had it thrown out. I don't know if he had to name his real partner or not...but the divorce from the second wife was UGLY. My mom got the house and $100/month child support (which she often had to have garnisheed off his pay check). The second wife got half the equity in the condo they owned, PLUS $700/month in alimony/child support. The kids weren't his but she had quit her job and the father of her kids didn't pay - so the court saw fit that my father should maintain them in the lifestyle to which they'd become accustomed. Howdja like them apples? He ended up paying for his stepdaughter's medical school.

Meanwhile when he got turfed out of his second marriage, he lived in a roach motel for a few weeks, then got an apartment. Each time I visited him, that lady co-worker was there - decorating and stuff. Hmmm... I began to put 2 and 2 together. It seemed that she never went "home" anymore.

I finally asked about it - and I got the whole speech from her - "Your father and I were never together in 'that way' until after we were divorced" (Yeah - right!) I told her I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

Funny - things went south between my father and I after that (or maybe not so funny). Seems that her adult children were more important than my sister and I (this happened a lot during those years after my parents split).

My father and I were on-again-off-again for many years - his wife wasn't interested in us, and did a lot to keep coming between us - and he let it. Ah but when her youngest son (2 or 3 years older than me) got in some hot water with a cocaine dealer - my father paid the $7K ransom on her son's kneecaps.

That was over 20 years ago now. My father has been on-again-off-again during those years with me. He did eventually marry this one - I voiced my opposition to it and got exiled again. No biggie. Every now and then he surfaces - he was somewhat present for the first 7 years of my DD (and 5 of DS) lives, then I must have done something to piss him off again.

He resurfaced a year or so ago when his mother died (pang of conscience) but I'm over it - I'll speak to him, be polite and cordial, but as far as I'm concerned that bridge is burned and he's not a real father to me and hasn't been for most of my life. His loss. He's got 2 great daughters and four awesome grandkids. Oh well - guess he will never know what he's missing, right?

A few years ago I found out he's had prostate cancer. Now he's impotent.

I never wished him any harm, but I had to consider the irony in all that. He never could keep it in his pants (his current W and last affair partner was joined at the hip to him - I guess so - to make sure he didn't cheat on HER)... but I couldn't help but ponder that the Karma Bus had stopped at his door. Couldn't keep it in his pants - now he can't get it up.

JinGA

Hopeandpray,

I think you have hit on what is at the heart of a lot of affair marriages. I have watched my WH commit to a clingy, demanding woman with two young children (WH always said he didn't want any more children after we had DD2), who has no income to speak of (SAHM with only part time work), who hasn't even filed for divorce from her current husband. However, "They are soulmates and he will wait for her no matter how long it takes". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The only reason I can think of that a sane person would do something like that is pride. You know what they say about pride....it goeth before a fall. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My brother married his affair partner and lasted about 14 years until she left him for someone else last year. He did say many times that he was not as happy with her as he thought that he would be, and that he made a mistake by leaving my xSIL. My xSIL went on to marry someone who is wonderful and rich, so she definitely had the last laugh.

My xBoss married his affair partner and have been together (they say happily) for over 13 years. She had 5 grown children, and he had 2 grown children when they left their spouses for each other. My boss did tell me once though that he was continually haunted by what he did to his XW. He said somedays it comes over him like a "black cloud"

Since most marriages aren't perfect, I'm sure those have trouble too, but I do think that pride won't let them admit that it isn't what they thought it would be.

My WH is in an A with a twice divorced, twice filed bankruptcy, has a gambling problem OW. Bewilders me because we have been married 34 years (known each other since grade school), both have worked hard, have a nice house and nest egg, and I thought had a good marriage. We were the perfect upper middle class subdivision, soccer coaching, caring-for-the-lawn, decorating-the-house couple. The rug certainly was pulled out from under me!!

It's hard for me to believe that he will leave me for that life, but I think that is what is going to happen. I doubt that it will work long term, but evidently he has found his soulmate....

I bumped a thread for you Knitgirl

Wife-land vs Turd-land

I know a lot of stories. There are no real happy endings to an A. The OP and WS live in a fantasy world. Even if they marry there is always that lingering doubt of what if.....

The story I'll share is about an A, one that lasted years. It didn't result in a M, it resulted in a suicide, then there was recovery. This story is about my grandmother..... her 1st H was kind of a weak spineless guy. He moved here (Hawaii) before the 1920's to work on the land.... he lived with is Uncle and Aunt (aunt by marriage). The aunt was a domineering woman and demanded her rent be paid by sex... (or so I hear).

My grandmother was brought over as a picture bride (as most were in those days). Grandma and her 1st H married and for the a while (a few months I think), they lived with the uncle and aunt until they could get their own place. Then they had 3 daughters. It was when the 3rd daugther was born that this 'aunt' also had a child.... a son. Being the dutiful wife, my grandmother visited this aunt to offer her congratulations (seems having a son vs a daugther and the fact the aunt was older with a new child.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ), well.... grandma carried her 3 little ones and sat with a group of local ladies visiting this 'aunt' and her new born son. The 2 babies were about a month apart (or less...not sure).

There was gossip going on but what happened next no one was prepared for. This 'aunt' supposedly was not able to nurse properly. My grandmother (who was in her early 20s) was nursing her new born also.... the aunt asked my grandmother in front of the other local women visiting to please nurse her new born son.

Out of respect, my grandmother obliged. While nursing the baby, the aunt asked my grandmother who she thought the baby (aunt's son) looked like. My grandmother replied.... 'he looks like uncle'. The 'aunt' laughed.... she said 'uncle was ugly that the baby boy cute as he was looked more like.... the nephew (grandma's H) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ......the aunt had a hideous laugh that made everyone's skin crawl. She was a wicked woman to the day she died.

My grandmother then knew all her hunches were correct....the A had been going on before their M and after. The baby it seemed looked a lot like grandma's 2nd daughter who looked a lot like her dad.

My grandmother pulled the nursing child away from her. The baby cried. She gently but firmly handed the baby to another lady sitting by her. Grandma picked up her children and left. I am not sure if someone walked her home but I recall the 'aunt' laughed. How cruel.

That OC turned out t/b a nice person. He and the rest of our family knew the story. He apologized along with the rest of his family for the assinine acts of his mom (the aunt). My grandmother eventually forgave him.

Grandma's 1st H committed suicide shortly after. From what we learned 1st H was forced to have sex with the aunt. I know this doesn't make sense but there were several who confirmed....she was a tough broad. Even her own H was scared of her. Creepy or what.

Remember this was an arranged M of which my grandma had no say. So after all this happened..... a while later my grandfather showed interest in my very young and cute grandmother. She had 3 girls and was working odd jobs to make ends meet (no welfare in those days)..... they moved in together had 2 boys...then married. My dad was son #3 and then they had 1 more.....my grandfather was a hard working man but died when his children were quite young (hernia)...... so my grandma was widowed again.

After all this, my grandmother said the most difficult thing to deal with was the death of her 3rd daughter (hodgkins disease - sp???).

I never met my grandfather (he died when my dad was 3 years old). I am told he was a good man. My grandma was an awesome lady who learned to survive many types of situations. It was my pleasure to know such a great lady.

Affairs..... they suck, they hurt. They should never be.

Still despite them all we can survive. My grandmother did and for that I am grateful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I must be having a brain cramp, because I'm not sure what you mean by "bumped a thread" Is that a good thing?? If so thanks!!!

When a new post is added it gets "bumped" to the top of the board again. Meaning - it's more visible.

The thread that Pep bumped for you was from earlier this year - thus buried in the archives unless somebody "bumped" it back up.

HTH

JinGA

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> to "bump" a thread means to bring it to the top of the forum for someone to see

the thread I bumped was Wife-land vs Turd-land

*HERE IS THE LINK *

Growing up I lived in a two family dwelling, the couple who lived next door was a product of an affair, she had lived with her mother-in-law and her ex-h is the one who brought home the man that would soon break up his marriage, I didn't know all this at the time, just found them to be exciting, (I was all of 12) even babysat for her, her child from her marriage.

Well let me tell you they did fight alot with each other and yes he did go and cheat on her with the daughter of our next door neighbor, my mom found a note taped to the door that( informing neighbor that his gf was home that day) which she ripped down....... but as much fun as they seem to have they did go there separate ways, you can't party forever, lloking back now I really don't think that she was happy with what she did end up with.

It's always in the eyes.

REad it and loved it!! Sorry to be dumb - I'll get used to the lingo as I keep posting on this thing.

Do some of you work for MB? I ask because some of you have so many posts and seem to take such good care of the rest of us. Especially Pepper - you said that you are recovered for 11 years, so wondered why you were still on the site. Just curious.....

I do not.


Paying it forward ... I believe in marriage ... and I know this set of marriage tools works !

Does Pep work for MB?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Nah! She's just a woman who's too stubborn to leave! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Heehee <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Knitgirl, there are a few of us old folks here (Orchid, JustLearning, BrambleRose, myself to name a few) who have been here for years because it's one way that we help others survive in a place where others helped US to survive.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I have been here since Sept. 11, 2000. My exH left Feb. 3, 1999 to live with OW and I lurked for a year! Since then, I have learned SO MUCH, and I personally come back because I passionately believe in marriage and I have the knowledge to help some people recover after an affair.

Well I guess when my WAW told me that she wanted to see if anything better was out there, odds are one of these stories is in her future!

And she also laid on me the "I was fat before and now I look good, I thought I had to settle being with you!"
This was after a boob job and a tummy tuck that WAW had in November 2004.

Talking about a cold woman! Ouch!

bump

Well, I think that all of you "old-timers" are wonderful. That's a long time to hang around. It just confirms my feeling that I have found the right place for help. I hope that after I get through this I can help and support someone else too.

Thanks to all of you!! Do you take donations? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know the details of two affairs that led to long term marriages.

One of my friends has told me about her uncle. He was married, started an affair, divorced his wife and married OW. My friend has told me that OW turned out to be a nice person, everyone in the family loved her and she was showing a lot of remorse over the way their marriage had started. They were married for 10 years or so and then her husband started an affair, divorced her and moved in with his new OW. I guess that his new wife should be worried about what will happen when they have been married for 10 years or so but maybe she thinks that their marriage is more special than his last two.

The other story I know is about my uncle. He married his first wife when they both were young and she was four months pregnant at the wedding. I don’t remember their family or their marriage since I was only two years old when he left his wife. He had started an affair with a woman in his workplace who was divorced with three children. Her ex husband was an alcoholic. Everyone in our family were chocked, especially my grandmother. His two teenage daughters swore to never speak to him again and told everyone that they hated OW. My uncle divorced his wife and after the divorce was final he married OW. The first time I met her was at their wedding when I was four years old. She was beautiful, always friendly and caring for her family and I understand why my uncle fell for her. They moved in with her children and lived together for 12 years. Then she fell ill from cancer which was spreading throughout her body. She was in a hospital for 1 ½ years, getting chemo therapy which made her loose her long dark hair. My uncle was watching over her day and night and even learned to interpret x-ray pictures to look for tumours. The last time I met her she was lying in a bed at the hospital, bald and skinny but still bright and happy to see me. Everyone in our family went to her funeral and even my uncle’s children were there, grieving for her. In this case the affair marriage was as happy as any other marriage and lasted until death parted them. But of course 12 years is not a very long marriage and I don’t know if my uncle would have left his new wife if he had found someone even more attractive. I will never know that but what I do know is that he cared for her and for her children also through bad times.

But I think the general opinion is that relationships that start out as affairs do not last long, at least that is when everyone I have talked to says. Another one of my friends (actually a friend of WH) even described the affair relationship as a rosy fantasy world which is not likely to last when reality kicks in.

What I think is more worrisome is that many people do not want a marriage for life, especially not when they start an affair. I have been posting at another web board and I have read stories about people who have left their husband or wife (it is mostly women posting) for OP and they have been happy for two or three years and those years of intense feelings made it worth scarifying their family and in many cases their children. They justify their selfish choices with arguments like “if the mother is happy the children will be happy” and “it is not good for children to grow up in a family where the parents do not love each other”. I don’t know if they were ever really committed to their marriages but the attitude that all that counts is their own temporary happiness is scary to me.

My FOM was married for seven years before he had an A with his current W. He didn't leave his first W because of "the kids" but ended up with his second W after his first W left him five years later.

My A with OM started around eight years into his M with his second W, his A partner from his first M. Up to that point, he had another EA/PA before me, as well as an EA before that. He was also pursuing his current W's best friend when our A started.

I don't know if time has anything to do with it. On the outside, I'm sure most of FOM's friends and family think he's only had one A... me. According to FOM and his second W, no one knows about their A besides me. FOM confessed his other As to me over the course of our three year A. I told his W about the two before me, and she told me about her best friend. I'm sure most folks think he's just been unfaithful once, as I know they are trying to work on their M.

Also, I'm convinced that OM had another A during his first M with a friend's girlfriend. He didn't admit it, but from the stories he told me, I pretty much pieced it together.

The big problem with marrying a cheater is that they.....cheat. I always just shake my head in amazement when someone in an affair marriage complains that their spouse......cheats. They picked a cheater so they hardly have a right to complain. In those cases, I believe the main issue is not the cheating, but acceptance of the consequences of ones choices. ["but I thought I could change him!" <----DUH!]

Isn't it funny how every affair partner somehow thinks that theirs is different, not like all the others, special, found soul mate, someone who finally understand me, and all of that other crap? Everyone seems to know the truth but them...

Donate your time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> once you know the system and have pearls of your own to pay forward!

You may seriously want to consider calling the Harley's for a phone consultation ~when~ your H says he is ready to work on the M. Don't fly that plane without some instructions. People who think that as soon as their WS wants to come home their trouble are "over" .... have no clue that the really REALLY REALLY diffucult stuff begins when trying to rebuild !

Well, I found that out the hard way. I really thought that I was in recovery for 5 months and that everything was ducky. Silly me.

And I will pay if forward if I make it through this and am able to offer others sound advice. At least I can help with what NOT to do....

My XH wasn't/isn't in an affair, but he chose a woman with a long track record of failed relationships, kids by multiple men, and all her exes seems to be "a-holes" as he's put it.

I sometimes wonder what would make him think that HE is "the one" for her?

I expect that once he is just another notch on her belly ring, he'll be a member of the a-hole club too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He and I were together for 20 YEARS. She seems to move on after a short time. Why would he think he's different to all the other men she's been through?

I'm going to take the initiative (I've been taking the initiative - but I'm going to try to have a serious talk with him this weekend) to try and reconcile with him. If he chooses not to - that's up to him, but one way or another, she'll move on sooner or later. Frankly I'm surprised she's hung on this long (although the last few months have been from a great distance). She'll find another ripe sucker eventually.

JinGA

JinGA,

I'm in somewhat the same situation. I'm married 34 years and mine WH is having an A with a twice divorced, twice filed bankruptcy, and has a gambling problem OW. But this is different - she really is "in love" with him *(as long as the $ flow).

It's hard for me to imagine that a responsible adults think like this?

At the company where I work, 6 men were left by their wives all within a month of each other, I'm included. Not to say that women are the only ones leaving. Most of us are young guys, but the one that got me was a guy M 35 years. He had just found out that he had cancer and when they got home from the doctor she dropped the Bomb on him.

Now *that* sucks. Nothing like kicking a man when he's down. My XH was "sick" with depression - but he neither wanted to acknowledge it or seek help for it (he has since). That's different in a big way from somebody with a physical illness as he prepares for the fight of his life. Ouch.

You know - a responsible adult doesn't think like that - that's why these sorts of relationships (affairs in particular - and while my XH's relationship isn't/wasn't an affair, a lot of the same stuff applies) are addictions.

No rational adult would start smoking (but alas I did and I'm addicted!), start doing drugs, drinking, gambling or any sort of addictive behavior if they could foresee that it could take over their lives. Not all addictions ruin lives (smoking isn't ruining my relationships but if I don't get my head straight to quit, it will ruin my health)... but when people start doing drugs instead of eating, gambling the rent or mortgage... none of that is rational.

Same thing can apply in an affair type relationship. The high people get from doing something forbidden, clouds their judgement and creates what we refer to here as the fog.

My XH, where his GF is concerned, has taken leave of many of his core values. Her appearance (tattooed and trashy dress) would never have been acceptable to him in the past - and he even snickered at some bimbo that came through our store yesterday - tramp stamp on her back, belly jewellry hanging down - thong sticking up out of the back of her too-small shorts...

I remember when he first started that relationship online. He'd been to see her for a week, so he knew what she looked like in person. I knew she had tattoos and stuff because she posted it all on her myspace page - I'd seen her pictures. One night XH and I were running an errand for the business, and we passed a tattoo parlour. We had a running joke because once a client of ours who'd just turned 50, dared me to go and get a tatoo with her - and of course I declined. If I'd said yes, we'd both be tramp-stamped now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Anyway as XH and I passed the tattoo parlour, he joked, "Wanna get a tattoo?" (clearly in reference to what had happened with myself and the other client). Of course I joked and said NO... but at that moment I thought that in making that funny with me, he was actually insulting his GF.

He holds both myself and our kids to higher standards than he does the GF and her kids. If I mothered my kids the way she doesn't - he'd have had me in court to be declared unfit. If I dressed like a tart, he'd have been all over that too.

But with her, all his values went out the window - as they pertained to HER.

I just don't get it. If I'd said or done (or not done) many of the things she's done, he'd have left me years ago - and rightly so.

The pull of such a relationship is a very powerful thing.

JinGA

So what attracts them to the type of person that they normally wouldn't approve of??? I've always heard that men affair down, and women affair up (men looking for somoeone who looks up to them, women going up on the social scale). Maybe that is true. Based on some of the cases that I've read here, it seems to be the case.

Also, I had one other case that I had forgotten about. My aunt's H left her for his affair partner (in the 1950's). I was small then, but my mom told me later that the OW was way down on the social scale from my aunt, but my aunt was so mad that she beat her up one day. Anyway, they got a D and he lived with the OW for a long time, but after 5 years he came back to my aunt and they married again. That may not happen today because D is so much more acceptable then it was back then. Anyway, mom says it was true love, and they had another child and were happy until she died of cancer 40 years later.

KG,

In the case of men going down, I can clearly see it. I find myself now looking at women that I would have never looked at before. Not because they are attractive but because they are women. A nice waist to hip ratio (Curves) drives me wild!

In my sitch I can say, I think it's a case of me being horny and my hormenes/testosterone are starting to take control. She left 9 months ago and temptation is always around. I try not to go out to clubs/bars too often because I always end up meeting a woman, then I have to stop myself from leaving with her.

Man, Divorce Busting and Marriage Builders have turned me into a better charmer, I know all the right things to say to a woman now. So that's why I have to be careful.

Ok, at least you are honest. But sex is sex. Would you really ever consider one of these women for a long term relationship/marriage????

My XH has. On his myspace page he describes his "fiancee". There was no ring and no date (and now she's 2000+ miles away by her doing).

Her myspace page has some lame survey on it and under the question asking if she'd like to get married, she answers, "NO".

If he doesn't see that they aren't on the same page now, he likely never will - yet he's still involved with her even after she moved back home. I couldn't figure it out then, and I surely can't figure it out now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And yep - he traded down - WAY down.

Maybe it's a self-esteem thing. Maybe he figures he can't earn himself a quality woman, so he took the first one that gave him a second glance and didn't ask him for money on the first contact. He told me then she was the first one that responded to his online personal - the first one that didn't ask to send money or help her get into the country or whatnot. I've never used online personals but from what I've been told, they are filled with money-grubbing predators. His just waited about 4 months before asking for money *g*.

JinGA

I think that you are right about the self-esteem thing. My WH is trading way down too, and I don't mean that in a conceited way at all (well, maybe just a little because we all want to believe that we are the best mate).

He was my equal where she thinks he is on a pedestal, and I guess the admiration is too much for him to resist. But what's not to admire when she hasn't had to clean the brown streaks in his undies, listen to him fart all night (I'm sure he's careful not to do that with her), prod him to get up off the couch and take out the garbage etc. Right now he is a great money machine....

I am so lost. My husband and I just talked for almost an hour. I love him so much and want him to come home, but he believes that he loves her and that he has a better chance of making it work with her versus his W of 23 years.

Please help - he chose to leave home and is living with her in a one bedroom apt. She is on state disability, divorced twice, 3 children. She is 45, her oldest child is almost 30, her two younger kids are 20 and 19 and the 19 year old has 3 kids. They are living in a one bedroom apt, but on the couch because the person she takes care of is coming home from the hospital. They are living in an absolutely choatic life. But he wants to stay with her.

I am a head secretary of a school, very accomplished, he complains I do too much volunteer work and so I gave it all up for him. But he didn't come home.

He admits he still loves me, but we grew so far apart and had nothing in common. He calls me his best friend, and I told him we were soul mates, which we are.

What can I do. I just need another chance, please help me.

Skinsgal - I wish I could help - but I'm in almost the exact same boat, because my XH has done the almost exact same thing.

His GF is 35, has at least 2 kids (maybe 3), different fathers. They lived in his 1 bdrm for the first few months, with himself, GF and her daughter. A few months later they got a 2 bedroom, took a trip and picked up her son. 3 people, 2 bedroom apartment and they lived that way for a year, until she moved away. She never worked while she was here, she *may* be on disability (only heard that through a 3rd party) and recently she was diagnosed with depression (supposedly why she never worked while she was here - uh huh).

He's still hanging on - they have a long-distance R now (again).

I'm preparing to try to have a talk with him in about 13 hours... and I'm scared, because in spite of all the good logical reasons why he should be wanting to talk about reconciliation, I have a sinking feeling that I'm going to be rejected.

I daresay his R will fizzle in time, unless he gives up his good job and his life here and moves to be with her. While I think he's resisting that notion, I'm fearful that he will make an even bigger mistake than all the rest and do that. At the very least he's planning on spending his upcoming bonus to go and visit her.

He was supposed to be leaving today to do just that, but his bonus was delayed - so his travel plans are delayed. I'm going to finally try to have a talk with him today to tell him how I feel and leave the ball in his court.

I want him to come home - not "instantly" - but I'd love to have one more chance to try to work things out - I'm willing to try, but it's up to him. We get along well, I'm the best friend he's ever had, although he probably doesn't see it.

I feel your pain - all too well. Well by the end of today I should have my answers. I'm trying very hard to think positively right now, but in the back of my mind, I fully expect that he will *still* choose his GF over his family.

If that's the case, then I just need to learn to file away these feelings for him, once and for all, and carry on. I don't have him now anyway - so I can't lose what I do not have.

JinGA

I don't care who ya are...that's GOTTA hurt!

I would never consider any of these women for a relationship. You are right sex is sex, but it's been 9 months, since my wife left, but I have to honor my marriage and not touch a woman until she D's me. This has been one of the hardest things that I have ever done, I am a very sexual man. And do I need it? No, do I want it? Oh ****** yes! But I can't now and that's the hard part.

This only my opinion but I think they will lived happily ever after until some one who they think is better suited to their agenda comes a long

My WW has made some friends of ours her goal with her A and the OM. The friends that I'm speaking of are happily married 'soul mates' of nine years. The husband was the WH and the wife was the OW. We also know the BS. She wouldn't reconcile with her husband. I talked to the husband about my situation. He told me that divorce was so painful that if his x-wife had tried to reconcile, then things might be different today. In any case, he is extremely happy with his new wife.

Too bad for me.

Pepper, I'm in Plan A mode now and my wife has filed on me. We're still living together (see link below for further info). These last few months have been extremely tough, but are you saying the recovery period is even harder? Why? What is it about recovery that makes it so hard?

HWW

trust issues and resentment resolution loom large during recovery

the BS usually becomes more morose a few months into recovery (around 6 months usually) and begins to doubt the value of even trying to recover, and feeling like a "booby prize" instead of the valued and adored spouse

before recovery, the BS has energy to get their spouse out of the affair ... and once the WS does end the affair, that energy seems to suddenly disappear, and the BS often feels more empty than ever

plus, for some WS, there is a prolonged mouringing the loss of the OP ... and the wounded BS has to stay by the side of the sad WS and help the WS through withdrawl of the one person in the world the BS really really hates ... and it is humiliating to want someone who is grieving the loss of another person .... who was the serpent in the marriage

Knit,



I guess that goes double for Lemonman, Stanley and me ( all are Docs). I can't remember the occupation for Lemon or Stanley's OM but in my case it was a cabin boy on a cruise ship. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Maybe the tips are better than I thought in the cruise industry

But I doubt that you would consider a long term relationship with the cabin boy, right? Can't imagine that you would be soul mates....

...Hey you just never know these days.

up

My WW's OM is an alcoholic who is now in jail for violating his probation. What a winner he is. I guess that is going up the social scale from me. WOW!!! Boy, I am feeling really good about myself (note the sarcasm as I write this)...I guess I am a complete loser...Why be with a BH who loves the Lord when you can be with an alcoholic atheist...

It's amazing how some folks can just take a vacation from their value system, isn't it?

JinGA

It's obvious that my wife just LOVED the attention from her "first love" (puking all over the floor)....

GHA,

I am so sorry about your W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> She is DEFINITELY stepping down, don't think anything else otherwise. My FOM was a step down, but he fit very nicely into the pattern of my alcoholic family, so he was "familiar" to me. Is your W's family troubled? That could be the attraction, and it has nothing to do with you.

Katie Mae

My WW's father is a recovering alcoholic, so, that is an unknown attraction, but one of her probs is her family coddles her...they are the type that say, "As long as she is happy.." (Continuing to puke) Her mom and dad are divorced and her mom remarried a good man, not a christian, but is good none the less. I think that is a reason for the crap too, because she sees her mom divorce and remarrying to a good person an option.

Yes, she is following family patterns. They feel familiar and safe. I did that too, but I changed... I found God... I grew up. My H's faith in me and our M changed me forever. Your W can change, too... you just need to be home, unfortunately. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Why would they feel familiar and safe?? I can see (still puking) how one could affect you, but the alcohol?? I don't get it. What did it take for you to change katie?

GHA-
I fear that you are getting bitter. Please don't let this bring you down or change you in any way. You need to remain the good person that you are so that your WW will eventually see what a mistake that she has made. Don't give her reason to confirm her decision. Do it for the girls too...

When I say familiar and safe, I mean... I was use to being around drug addicted narcissists. They were my family. I was use to that behavior and knew my role in my relationships with them. When I was with OM, I use to marvel at how much I felt "at home" and how much he was like my family (I thought this was positive at the time... of course this made OM my "soulmate.") I know it doesn't make sense, but eventhough I couldn't wait to get away from my family when I was younger, I couldn't see that I was jumping back into it when I was with OM. It just felt "normal."

Of course, I didn't realize any of this during my A or even much afterwards. I did a lot of IC and read a lot of books. It took a lot of soul-searching.

There were a couple of things that made me change. First, my lifestyle was killing me... the A was physically making me ill (not to mention mentally, but everyone knows what aliens WS turn into!) I didn't want to be with OM anymore, but could not seem to break free from him. Coming here helped with that tremendously.

Mostly, it was my H. When I confessed to him, I had my bags packed and was ready for him to kick me out. Instead, he told me he loved me and wanted to work on the M. He said he wanted me in the same bed as him. He treated me with such firm, real, loving kindness that I felt I had been touched by God. My husband's love made me born again. Because he had such faith in me and in us, I had to change. I had to be the woman he saw, because I certainly didn't feel like that person. I had to be accountable for what I did, and make everything up to him. I love my H more than anything, and I will be making this up to him for the rest of my life. He is my hero, and I am the luckiest, most blessed woman alive.

KM

Truthfully, I'm not getting bitter, just don't understand why she is making some of the choices she is making. I just want the love of my life back and will do whatever it takes to get her back. I am just going through a discouraged state right now...I appreciate all of you...Y'all keep me grounded and for that I am greatful. I sit in front of a computer screen 12 hours a day in a God-forsaken country with a picture of my wife and I right above my monitor and it kills me..it is a picture of us on R&R in April where we are holding hands and have our heads together looking at the camera, but now I know it was a sham because the A was going on then...Know what I mean?

A good person?, but you already know what God has to say about what the world calls good.

This is where I keep going back to what the world calls happiness, happiness is a momentary delusion that society has deceived people into believing that if she/he’s not making you happy, find someone who will. Or if you don’t live in a certain house, drive a certain kind of car or if someone is not treating you a certain way, don’t worry some will do it for you. But the problem with that is that we never deal with the real issues and what’s going on inside of us! True peace comes from God and only He can provide that apart from circumstance, because circumstance will change and then what are you left with?

Not to say that true happiness doesn't exist, but to look to someone else for you happiness is unrealistic, wrong and just plain selfish. And to destroy a marriage and violate your commitment that you made to a person and not expect any consequences for their actions is deceptive.

It good that you found God and it’s funny how He uses circumstances in our lives to bring us to Him.

Another interesting thing is families don't show any tough love anymore, it's just do what you want and we will support you no matter what. What kind of crap is this, no one will tell anybody to do the right thing, because they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!?

Katie,
Your situation sounds pretty much exactly like mine. I told my wife the same thing that your husband said. She asked me why I said those things to her while she was balling, and I said because I loved her and my marriage was the most important thing (besides God)to me. Then two days later, she HAD to see him for closure, and back to the alien...That is what hurts is I can't tell who she is.

Shes_Great,
I know what the Bible says about "good", I was just saying that she sees her mom remarry to someone else that is "good" and just doesn't get it. My wife is led by her emotions and not by the Lord right now. We are both ministers of the Gospel and don't think she fully gets that. I didn't either at first, but the very minute we got our license to preach, satan has fought us tooth and nail. it has been a year and a half since that day and I didn't really know how easy prey that we were for the devil.

I guess I have a hard time with this because we are not to talk about our marriage so I don't know where her head is at, or if she even loves me. She tells me she loves me, but is that my wife, or the alien?

Hey,, sorry I wasn't trying to be mean or anything, I'm in the same boat as you my brother, this happens to the best of us. I undestand where you are coming from. My W and I are strong christians, well not sure about what's going on with W but Satan saw a crack in our R and he attacked hard!!! And my W fell for the lie!

I never meant to imply you were mean, didn't take it that way at all. Sorry it came across that way SG...

BTW, katie, my wife has been calling me the last couple of weeks with "panic attacks" and to pray for her. It was scaring her..She would call me for prayer up until the time I confronted her about the email sent for OM about a job. How long after your husband telling you he wanted to work on the M did it take you to finally come around? You have a lot of the same traits as my wife, that is why i ask. As far as her family, how do I deal with them always thinking she is the perfect little angel. I think that she is lying to them a lot right now, and want to call and talk to her mom, but don't want to cause anymore probs...What do you think?

Well my XH came from a good, decent, blue-collar family. Parents married 50+ years, happily. He rose above his "roots" and achieved a good job in a white-collar field after hard work, night school and working his way up the ladder. He's a professional now, and he's earned his way.

He traded me in for white trash.

I came from a divorced home - my mom is a recovering alcoholic with 25 or so years of sobriety. Mom had her issues, but she's past them now, dad abandoned his family emotionally after he betrayed us with infidelity.

If anyone should have regressed "statistically" it should have been me - but I wanted nothing to do with that lifestyle. The man I took up with had a problem with alcohol - and I refused to tolerate it, so he quit drinking - period. He had other issues, so I ended the relationship but I didn't find anything about that "comfortable or familiar" - in fact the familiarity of it made me uneasy and so that was it.

I can't understand why XH found it OK to accept behaviour in GF that he would never have tolerated from me - nor would I even have dreamed of doing.

GHA... I'm in a bit of a discouraged phase too - but I need to keep my chin up and keep going forward *for me*. If XH decides to follow, so be it, if not - well then I'll still be OK - and so will you.

JinGA

Jin, I am actually better today...I am the same as you and don't understand why they put up with stuff in OP that they never would have with us. Crazy. Just miss my wife...Haven't talked much last couple of days..Couple of minutes here or there...I just wish she knew how much I love her...

Well my XH knows how much I love him - told him *specifically* the other day (see my "time for a new thread" thread.)

He's still not interested. He didn't say "never" but he did say "not likely" - same difference at this point.

I think his GF is fishing for a new sucker too - but that hasn't daunted him, he's still planning to leave to see her on vacation next week.

I don't get it - he's investing time, effort and a crap ton of money into a relationship that is at a dead end, by his own admission (but not in so many words). He told me he won't be moving out there to be with her, but he's still pushing forward with it as much as he can.

Meanwhile, I've told him I still love him, his children, his home and his lifestyle that he was willing to give up instead of change (at the time), is *still* here despite his depression-driven choice at the time. Not many get a second chance to get it all back after it's lost - but he chooses to pursue what he knows to be a dead end.

He's basically at a point where he was 23 years ago - about to start again once his relationship finally ends. He has the option to 'pick up where we left off' only better - he's acknowledged that I've changed for the better and I'm still moving forward with that, I've seen some significant positive changes in him... there's a strong basis to try to repair our relationship - but he's not wanting to choose to walk through the door.

I don't understand it.

JinGA

I almost wonder if waywards do it just out of pride. My wife WILL NOT admit she is ever wrong (another issue), so why would she admit to having an affair (she never uses that term)? To admit she is wrong would mean she might have to change something. I know I have things I still need to change, and am doing so, not just for her, but for the Lord, my children and myself. The difference in her and I is that I have ALWAYS admitted my faults and wrongs and owned up to what I have done. I realize I have done some bad stuff, but can never take it back. She still always in her WS rage throws it up to me. I know it is to justify her behavior, but I really am sorry for it...She can't let it go..

Well my XH wasn't/isn't in an affair with this woman - it started after we split up.

Ironically, XH never owned his share in the unraveling of our marriage - but when we talked the other day, he did own his part. I told him I owned my part in it and he said it wasn't all my fault - that's the first time he's actually said that - although things he's said recently alluded to the fact that he does admit that he'd realized it. It was somewhat validating to hear that he finally *told me* that he owned his part of it. Small comfort now - but it was a comfort in a way.

Sometimes I think maybe he's scared to come back - in case he lets me down again. That he doesn't have faith in himself to rise to the challenge. He could be right but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt - but if he's not willing to take that chance on himself, I can't do anything about it.

I think sometimes people choose to "trade down" because then they don't have to work as hard - lowered expectations. If he picked someone that was more his equal (as I was), he'd likely be expected to live up to certain standards.

The irony is, once he got treatment for depression, "he" returned to being, for the most part, the man I married. He applied those standards to me, to our kids, but not to the GF or to her kids. Major double standard. That is what I don't understand, and perhaps that's where he still needs to work on fixing himself.

I think a lot of that mindset goes to the path of least resistance - easier to carry on with somebody of lower sophistication than oneself, because one doesn't have to maintain their own standards, they can lower themselves to OP's standards, and that makes it easier to toss out core values, at least temporarily.

And from what I've seen/read here - temporary seems to be the operative word in most of this type of relationship.

JinGA

J-
I'm with you - I just don't understand this "trading down" thing. Someone told me that they think (at least in my case) it has to do with adoration. I've been married 34 years, we have a very comfortable life, nice house, nice nest egg that we have built over the years, and my H is involved with someone who is D twice, filed bankruptcy twice, and has a gambling problem to boot. He's been throwing money around and she thinks he is the sugar daddy she's been waiting for. He even says that she is looking for someone to take care of her.

What's weird for me is that he has never told me all of the things waywards say (never loved you, never happy etc), but has been telling me since Dday that he loves me, doesn't want a divorce, he's sorry yadayadayada, but he won't end it. I don't get it either....

Sounds like your man is cake-eating, Knitgirl. He's got you, he's clinging to you, but he won't let go of OW either. I went through that. XH was playing family man (there were no ILY statements then...) but he would hang around with us, do family type stuff - everything *but* commit to rebuilding the M. He kept things going with the GF (this was 20-ish months ago when GF was 'new'). The GF was 2000 miles away - so *we* (his family) filled his craving for companionship and family type stuff... but the GF filled "other needs".

Once I realized that he was stringing me along, I put a stop to it. I couldn't do a true Plan B (because of our business) but I guess I went dark as much as I could.

Now he's not cake eating at all - he's declined my invitations to do family stuff except for DS' b'day - but we had FUN with that as a family. I'd hoped it would leave him wanting more (and maybe it did but he doesn't admit it yet) - it was clear that he enjoyed himself... who wouldn't want more?

Now he's choosing to keep to himself, saving himself for the GF that left him to move back 2000 miles away.

I still believe at some point he may come around - once the R with GF finishes its slow, painful death. However he may just choose to go and find another GF. Time will tell if he chooses someone more appropriate this time, or repeats that same mistake again. Saying it's a mistake may sound like a DJ coming from me - but the facts speak for themselves - he lost big in that venture.

I'm giving it time, giving him space, but since we see each other most days at the business (sometimes he's only there for a few minutes, weekends he's there all day both days unless he's got to go do an outcall at a client's) I'm using every opportunity during those times to Plan A.

In doing so I'm hoping that if/when he's ready to move past the GF, coming home to us may be a logical choice to him, and a desirable one. I know it may never happen, but if I don't at least do my best to show him that I love him, and that I've improved myself and thus would make a better partner to him, then it won't happen for sure. At least in doing this, I'm helping myself for *any* outcome, and I'm improving my chances to attract him back.

Not sure what to suggest to you, Knitgirl - but cake-eating is never good and must be stopped - for your own well-being.

Are you able to do Plan B? It might be time.

JinGA

I definitely think "adoration" is a huge part of it, especially in my wife's case, and maybe lowering her standards also...

Well, I did do Plan B just Tuesday. His job requires travel M-F, so I sent an overnight letter to him. My terms are NC, quit job and come home, and MC. There's no other way to make it work. Travelling kills a M (sorry GHA)but it's true. We really can't afford for him to quit, but I feel that this M is hanging on by a thread so we can both work at McDonalds if need be to pay the bills.

He has left the assignment where OW was, but I found out that she has been with him a few times. Since I also have a business, I can't travel with him. I want him to join mine, but he says we can't make enough money. I disagree. I don't make much now, but mainly because I'm trying to do everything myself. I feel like with his help, we could really do well.

Anyway, he has called several times but of course I have to remain dark. Very difficult to do though because there is some business (taxes, bill pymt etc.) that we need to discuss. Plus emotionally its hard. One minute I'm depressed, the next relieved, the next something else.

Anyway, how do you and Xh manage to share a business? That must be hard. Can you share the type of business that you own? Don't give up hope. My aunt and uncle were divorced for 5 years, then remarried and were quite happy. I've heard of many couples getting remarried. Why did his GF leave him anyway??? Sounds like she is cooling on the whole R. Was this GF the reason that you decided to D??

You don't have to apologize for my idiocy for coming over here to support my family...I now know it was the wrong thing in my case...

The business came from a hobby we enjoyed as a couple for many years. He has a "real job" (He's an IT professional), and I run the business full-time. We continued this long after we split up - we met working together as kids (me 17, him 20) and we've worked together for many years at this or that. We've always been able to leave work issues at work and domestic issues at home.

He continued in the business even after I moved on with the man I became involved with - and believe it or not that man helped in the business (he'd worked in the same industry as long as we have) - and XH actually appreciated his contributions. Yes it was a very WEIRD dynamic but it worked.

Last Feb (06) XH's online GF of 6 months or so moved across the country to be with him. In July, he suddenly quit the business, saying he was "uncomfortable" - leading me to believe that the atmosphere in the business was uncomfortable - it had been the same for a year or so... well it turns out the "uncomfortable" really meant that GF didn't want him working so much and spending time with me. So he bowed to pressure from her - to up and quit.

When the man I was seeing (who took over XH's duties upon his departure), and I split up and that man moved out of state (went home to his parents' - he also had health issues), when I informed XH that (X)BF had taken sick, he embraced the opportunity to return to the business without my even asking. It was a Friday - I told him that BF was in hospital, and XH responded with, "Is he OK? I'll be there (in the business) tomorrow!" And he's been back since. When GF was still there, he only came in on weekends, once she left, he started coming by evenings during the week. He used to work from after his day job til closing each night, but nowadays he usually doesn't stay long during the week - but at least he comes in.

I don't know why GF left him (sorry this is becoming a thread-jack...). A few days before Christmas her father was in an accident and she spent 10 days including Christmas day, at home visiting him in hospital (XH had her kids for Christmas alone). Then in mid-Feb, she decided to go home for 6 WEEKS, again leaving her kids with XH (but she took her dog with her that XH gave her)... to help her father or something. Funny though when I'd ask XH how her father was, he never seemed to know...

She came back March 31 (I actually had a bet with my Mom that she'd not return, she'd just send for her kids!), and on April 3, XH called me crying saying she was moving back home again. She left April 18. I figured that was it - over with, but nope, they're carrying on long-distance, at least for now. He's about to take his vacation out there, and he got mad when I wouldn't let my kids go with him - they don't like her and don't want to see her again. So he's going alone, likely a week from now, for 2 weeks.

We'll see what happens after that - he's pretty much acknowledged that he's at a stalemate there, without actually stating it that way.

Who knows what he'll do next? He knows the door home is open - but he may just decide to go the other direction and find somebody else. For his sake if he does make that decision, I hope he finds somebody who isn't just interested in a free ride again.

JinGA

GHA,

I would wait re: talking to your W's family until you are home. It wouldn't surprise me if her family didn't already know what was going on... I told my parents about my A before I confessed to my H. My dad was VERY upset with me, but my mom was supportive of whatever made me "happy." Either way, while parents want to be supportive I really don't think many realize that the correct way to be supportive is by defending the M. You can help with this, but you must be home first.

I have to run... H and I are going to Maine for a couple of days but will be back on Saturday and I will post back to you then. I just checked out your photos on the thread... your family is very beautiful.

Blessings,

KM

have fun KM...Blessings to your family as well...

I hear ya man, I'm in the same boat. I haven't seen my W in almost 5 months and haven't talked to her in weeks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

How can someone do that and just keep on ticking like everything we had meant nothing to her, like ho hum! I miss her but I don't miss her as much as I use to.

I hope you feel better man, it gets better with time. 8 months ago I though I couldn't make it and I though death was better than the way I was feeling.

It's really hard when you miss them and they are still right in front of you every day.

During bad times (when I'm discouraged or distraught) I almost wish he'd move away - out of sight out of mind... well he wouldn't be out of mind, but it's hard to be in somebody's presence every day when you know you can't have them.

It's all relative I guess - at least with him still being around there's a chance he could *see* what could be - if he wants it.

JinGA

I have a good one for you - My FWH OW 1 was from a foreign country, in the US on a work visa. Approx 2 weeks after she arrived the A had begun. I believed then and know now that she was trying to get my FWH to leave me & marry her so she could stay in the US. He didn't, and a few months later she "married" her 2nd cousin, with whose family she was staying with when she was carrying on with my FWH. Yuck. The "husband" was aware of the A with my FWH but married her anyway...now I have heard that he abuses her and they are miserable. Hm.

That is just wrong! I wonder why he beats her? Letting out the frustration of his huge mistake, huh.

SG

5 months!!???That is a long time. Are you talking reconcilation or D at this time? She's still with OM???

WHY are we all putting ourselves through this? Is recovery so great that we are willing to put our hearts on the line like this? Can it really be better than before???

(sorry if this is a duplicate post. Looked like my last reply didn't get thru)

No recovery is likely harder than the affair process in a lot of cases. Secondly, and I am only speaking for me, if there are no "young" chidren involved I would never attempt it.

HAP-

Can you tell my why you say that? I'm in that boat - 34 years M with kids grown. Maybe tht's why I'm questioning this. Would like to hear your logic..

I have young kids, but love my wife enough to try...Maybe the kids are a big part of it...Don't know..It is truly going to take a miracle from God for her to come around though, but know He is faithful...

Yes that is a long time, but when W left she took apart of me with her. Now the void that was left was rebuilt into the great man that I am today, thanks to MB. (not trying to pat myself on the back) But I feel so good about me!

Well from what she told me there was no OM, do I believe her? Not sure. We are getting a D, she filed on me in Jan. and I just got a decree on June 6. So basically she strung me along for 4 months. She left in Sept. filed a petition in Jan.

Is there some unconscious thought process that WAS's have that make them roughly all say the same thing? Man, what's up with that! From what I see on these boards the reasons are very similar.

Or is that a response to the guilt and they have to convince themselves that it was the LBS's fault?

I was talking with a friend of mine that told me that his W came home one day about two years ago and said that she found someone that she can't pass up. I knew a little bit of the story, but not any details. So they get a D because of the bigger better deal or greener grass. She left Texas to go live on the east coast. Leaving her kids behind to live with the OM. They get there and trouble started shortly after they arrived. He beats her, calls her names and he pushed her through a window. She cut her hand bad and is just now getting back to where she can use it again.

Now fast forward to a week ago, she calls XH to ask him if she can come back home! XH tells her that the kids misses her but she can't come back to live with them again. He told her to come and stay with her mother, but her mother doesn't want her there because of what she did to her XH and children. I guess she's getting the bigger better deal that she just couldn't pass up.

I hate to see things like this happen but where does it end? People leave a happy home for misery.

Just another unsuccess story:

I am the member of another web boards. A few weeks ago a man was posting that his wife had an affair, they were going to separate, they have two small children and a house they will have to sell. OM had called the BH and said that his WW had told him that their marriage was over and that she loves OM.

I replied to the man, telling him about MB and encouraging him to look into plan A, exposure and other MB principles. I don't think he checked MB and a few days ago his wife filed for divorce.

The last I read was that the BH is beginning to understand that the relation with his WW started in very much the same manner. She was cohabiting with a man but started dating the man who was going to be her husband. She told him that her relation with her cohabiter was over. The man says that he refused to sleep with her until she separated from her cohabiter but he still feels guilty since he now realises that the cohabiter probably did not think that their relation was over until she moved out. So he married a cheater and a cheater was what he got. I feel awfully sorry for him though, he is writing about the pain when he has to leave his children with WW knowing that she might bring OM to see them.

Just goes to show ya

[color:"blue"]You can polish a Turd till your arms fall off, but at the end of the day ... its still a Turd.
[/color]

How do you know if it's hopless and not worth trying?

SG

The pain in so intense when I think he is out there with OW, taking the day off and having fun, while I am trying to just make it through the day without dying a little more inside. I have the kids and am raising them, I am worrying about selling the house, figuring out where I need to move next, trying to figure out what his next move and lie will be.

Were we really that bad of spouses to have deserved this?

Words of widsom please.

SG

First off SG...like what i read somewhere...if seeing your marriage is over from your POV, you have the option of laying down an ultimatum,legal seperation or the ultimate.....a divorce. What however in NEVER an option is to have an affair.

Two things will happen.....You would have destroyed emotionally the one person you swore to protect and 2. To get through that extreem guilt, you WILL demonize the offended spouse (BS).

We in our initial reaction will believe ALL that they have said and not realize the facts. We instinctively think that our partner...who always have our back....will level with us and tell the truth.

Not so.

Yes we may have neglected alot of things to our detriment...But the one option that we NEVER contemplate....is ADULTRY.

nobody "deserve" anything. But we will suffer the consequence of our action. SG i guarantee you this.....if not now later....He WILL think about what he has done .....and regret it.

You on the other hand ,consider yourself blessed....to have survived the initial devastation and rise to the situation...you have ,by your action stated..."i will not go down quitely into darkness, i will fight to be better, i will go on,i will protect my kids, i am me and i will never surrender to this devatation called affair.....today.... i celebrate life. and i will live it!

No you dont "deserve " it. God will make it clear to you soon.....maybe a "little" patience is needed to see it.

For me ...plan B has returned a bit of my sanity....but i do miss my wife ....my love.

Bump for all the new people around here, I haven't been on for almost a year. My D was final 9-17-07 XW has been living with OM for about a year now, I haven't seen or talked to her since 9-4-07. I saw her aunt and she told me that XW was not happy, so I guess it was not me that caused her problems!

Good for you to know what was always true...

you are not replaceable...

and that while people contribute to a problem, they aren't one.

Good to remember when you're in this struggle with infidelity, fighting for your marriage or healing from it divorced...

you choosing to know you can at most be half of an issue is really important. Half of the marriage per-A.

None of the A at all.

Thanks for coming back with an update.

LA

Is it too late to add to this? My xFIL was (is) a serial cheater. He left his 1st wife to marry his AP who happened to be the woman next door. She had 2 kids, he had 3. My xH and his new "brother" were the same age. He adopted the 2 kids. He was with this wife for the longest of all his wives - over 10 years. He eventually cheated on her with an OW from work. By this time the kids were grown. He moved in with various OW's without actually marrying them until his current W (who he cheated on one of his previous GF/OWs). They've been together 5 or 6 years and seem happy. But a snake is still a snake and his heart hasn't stopped beating.

I wouldn't say that all is always perfect but my ex has been with ow since october of 2004. so, going on 4 years...

mlhb

There is no time table with this, I know a woman that cheated on her 1st husband 17 years ago. She married the guy that she was cheating with and you know the story. He left her after 17 years of marriage and this ripped her heart out, just like it did her 1st husband. But honestly, what did she expect?

My XW and OM are now married and living with her parents.