Jin, I am actually better today...I am the same as you and don't understand why they put up with stuff in OP that they never would have with us. Crazy. Just miss my wife...Haven't talked much last couple of days..Couple of minutes here or there...I just wish she knew how much I love her...

Well my XH knows how much I love him - told him *specifically* the other day (see my "time for a new thread" thread.)

He's still not interested. He didn't say "never" but he did say "not likely" - same difference at this point.

I think his GF is fishing for a new sucker too - but that hasn't daunted him, he's still planning to leave to see her on vacation next week.

I don't get it - he's investing time, effort and a crap ton of money into a relationship that is at a dead end, by his own admission (but not in so many words). He told me he won't be moving out there to be with her, but he's still pushing forward with it as much as he can.

Meanwhile, I've told him I still love him, his children, his home and his lifestyle that he was willing to give up instead of change (at the time), is *still* here despite his depression-driven choice at the time. Not many get a second chance to get it all back after it's lost - but he chooses to pursue what he knows to be a dead end.

He's basically at a point where he was 23 years ago - about to start again once his relationship finally ends. He has the option to 'pick up where we left off' only better - he's acknowledged that I've changed for the better and I'm still moving forward with that, I've seen some significant positive changes in him... there's a strong basis to try to repair our relationship - but he's not wanting to choose to walk through the door.

I don't understand it.

JinGA

I almost wonder if waywards do it just out of pride. My wife WILL NOT admit she is ever wrong (another issue), so why would she admit to having an affair (she never uses that term)? To admit she is wrong would mean she might have to change something. I know I have things I still need to change, and am doing so, not just for her, but for the Lord, my children and myself. The difference in her and I is that I have ALWAYS admitted my faults and wrongs and owned up to what I have done. I realize I have done some bad stuff, but can never take it back. She still always in her WS rage throws it up to me. I know it is to justify her behavior, but I really am sorry for it...She can't let it go..

Well my XH wasn't/isn't in an affair with this woman - it started after we split up.

Ironically, XH never owned his share in the unraveling of our marriage - but when we talked the other day, he did own his part. I told him I owned my part in it and he said it wasn't all my fault - that's the first time he's actually said that - although things he's said recently alluded to the fact that he does admit that he'd realized it. It was somewhat validating to hear that he finally *told me* that he owned his part of it. Small comfort now - but it was a comfort in a way.

Sometimes I think maybe he's scared to come back - in case he lets me down again. That he doesn't have faith in himself to rise to the challenge. He could be right but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt - but if he's not willing to take that chance on himself, I can't do anything about it.

I think sometimes people choose to "trade down" because then they don't have to work as hard - lowered expectations. If he picked someone that was more his equal (as I was), he'd likely be expected to live up to certain standards.

The irony is, once he got treatment for depression, "he" returned to being, for the most part, the man I married. He applied those standards to me, to our kids, but not to the GF or to her kids. Major double standard. That is what I don't understand, and perhaps that's where he still needs to work on fixing himself.

I think a lot of that mindset goes to the path of least resistance - easier to carry on with somebody of lower sophistication than oneself, because one doesn't have to maintain their own standards, they can lower themselves to OP's standards, and that makes it easier to toss out core values, at least temporarily.

And from what I've seen/read here - temporary seems to be the operative word in most of this type of relationship.

JinGA

J-
I'm with you - I just don't understand this "trading down" thing. Someone told me that they think (at least in my case) it has to do with adoration. I've been married 34 years, we have a very comfortable life, nice house, nice nest egg that we have built over the years, and my H is involved with someone who is D twice, filed bankruptcy twice, and has a gambling problem to boot. He's been throwing money around and she thinks he is the sugar daddy she's been waiting for. He even says that she is looking for someone to take care of her.

What's weird for me is that he has never told me all of the things waywards say (never loved you, never happy etc), but has been telling me since Dday that he loves me, doesn't want a divorce, he's sorry yadayadayada, but he won't end it. I don't get it either....

Sounds like your man is cake-eating, Knitgirl. He's got you, he's clinging to you, but he won't let go of OW either. I went through that. XH was playing family man (there were no ILY statements then...) but he would hang around with us, do family type stuff - everything *but* commit to rebuilding the M. He kept things going with the GF (this was 20-ish months ago when GF was 'new'). The GF was 2000 miles away - so *we* (his family) filled his craving for companionship and family type stuff... but the GF filled "other needs".

Once I realized that he was stringing me along, I put a stop to it. I couldn't do a true Plan B (because of our business) but I guess I went dark as much as I could.

Now he's not cake eating at all - he's declined my invitations to do family stuff except for DS' b'day - but we had FUN with that as a family. I'd hoped it would leave him wanting more (and maybe it did but he doesn't admit it yet) - it was clear that he enjoyed himself... who wouldn't want more?

Now he's choosing to keep to himself, saving himself for the GF that left him to move back 2000 miles away.

I still believe at some point he may come around - once the R with GF finishes its slow, painful death. However he may just choose to go and find another GF. Time will tell if he chooses someone more appropriate this time, or repeats that same mistake again. Saying it's a mistake may sound like a DJ coming from me - but the facts speak for themselves - he lost big in that venture.

I'm giving it time, giving him space, but since we see each other most days at the business (sometimes he's only there for a few minutes, weekends he's there all day both days unless he's got to go do an outcall at a client's) I'm using every opportunity during those times to Plan A.

In doing so I'm hoping that if/when he's ready to move past the GF, coming home to us may be a logical choice to him, and a desirable one. I know it may never happen, but if I don't at least do my best to show him that I love him, and that I've improved myself and thus would make a better partner to him, then it won't happen for sure. At least in doing this, I'm helping myself for *any* outcome, and I'm improving my chances to attract him back.

Not sure what to suggest to you, Knitgirl - but cake-eating is never good and must be stopped - for your own well-being.

Are you able to do Plan B? It might be time.

JinGA

I definitely think "adoration" is a huge part of it, especially in my wife's case, and maybe lowering her standards also...

Well, I did do Plan B just Tuesday. His job requires travel M-F, so I sent an overnight letter to him. My terms are NC, quit job and come home, and MC. There's no other way to make it work. Travelling kills a M (sorry GHA)but it's true. We really can't afford for him to quit, but I feel that this M is hanging on by a thread so we can both work at McDonalds if need be to pay the bills.

He has left the assignment where OW was, but I found out that she has been with him a few times. Since I also have a business, I can't travel with him. I want him to join mine, but he says we can't make enough money. I disagree. I don't make much now, but mainly because I'm trying to do everything myself. I feel like with his help, we could really do well.

Anyway, he has called several times but of course I have to remain dark. Very difficult to do though because there is some business (taxes, bill pymt etc.) that we need to discuss. Plus emotionally its hard. One minute I'm depressed, the next relieved, the next something else.

Anyway, how do you and Xh manage to share a business? That must be hard. Can you share the type of business that you own? Don't give up hope. My aunt and uncle were divorced for 5 years, then remarried and were quite happy. I've heard of many couples getting remarried. Why did his GF leave him anyway??? Sounds like she is cooling on the whole R. Was this GF the reason that you decided to D??

You don't have to apologize for my idiocy for coming over here to support my family...I now know it was the wrong thing in my case...

The business came from a hobby we enjoyed as a couple for many years. He has a "real job" (He's an IT professional), and I run the business full-time. We continued this long after we split up - we met working together as kids (me 17, him 20) and we've worked together for many years at this or that. We've always been able to leave work issues at work and domestic issues at home.

He continued in the business even after I moved on with the man I became involved with - and believe it or not that man helped in the business (he'd worked in the same industry as long as we have) - and XH actually appreciated his contributions. Yes it was a very WEIRD dynamic but it worked.

Last Feb (06) XH's online GF of 6 months or so moved across the country to be with him. In July, he suddenly quit the business, saying he was "uncomfortable" - leading me to believe that the atmosphere in the business was uncomfortable - it had been the same for a year or so... well it turns out the "uncomfortable" really meant that GF didn't want him working so much and spending time with me. So he bowed to pressure from her - to up and quit.

When the man I was seeing (who took over XH's duties upon his departure), and I split up and that man moved out of state (went home to his parents' - he also had health issues), when I informed XH that (X)BF had taken sick, he embraced the opportunity to return to the business without my even asking. It was a Friday - I told him that BF was in hospital, and XH responded with, "Is he OK? I'll be there (in the business) tomorrow!" And he's been back since. When GF was still there, he only came in on weekends, once she left, he started coming by evenings during the week. He used to work from after his day job til closing each night, but nowadays he usually doesn't stay long during the week - but at least he comes in.

I don't know why GF left him (sorry this is becoming a thread-jack...). A few days before Christmas her father was in an accident and she spent 10 days including Christmas day, at home visiting him in hospital (XH had her kids for Christmas alone). Then in mid-Feb, she decided to go home for 6 WEEKS, again leaving her kids with XH (but she took her dog with her that XH gave her)... to help her father or something. Funny though when I'd ask XH how her father was, he never seemed to know...

She came back March 31 (I actually had a bet with my Mom that she'd not return, she'd just send for her kids!), and on April 3, XH called me crying saying she was moving back home again. She left April 18. I figured that was it - over with, but nope, they're carrying on long-distance, at least for now. He's about to take his vacation out there, and he got mad when I wouldn't let my kids go with him - they don't like her and don't want to see her again. So he's going alone, likely a week from now, for 2 weeks.

We'll see what happens after that - he's pretty much acknowledged that he's at a stalemate there, without actually stating it that way.

Who knows what he'll do next? He knows the door home is open - but he may just decide to go the other direction and find somebody else. For his sake if he does make that decision, I hope he finds somebody who isn't just interested in a free ride again.

JinGA

GHA,

I would wait re: talking to your W's family until you are home. It wouldn't surprise me if her family didn't already know what was going on... I told my parents about my A before I confessed to my H. My dad was VERY upset with me, but my mom was supportive of whatever made me "happy." Either way, while parents want to be supportive I really don't think many realize that the correct way to be supportive is by defending the M. You can help with this, but you must be home first.

I have to run... H and I are going to Maine for a couple of days but will be back on Saturday and I will post back to you then. I just checked out your photos on the thread... your family is very beautiful.

Blessings,

KM

have fun KM...Blessings to your family as well...

I hear ya man, I'm in the same boat. I haven't seen my W in almost 5 months and haven't talked to her in weeks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

How can someone do that and just keep on ticking like everything we had meant nothing to her, like ho hum! I miss her but I don't miss her as much as I use to.

I hope you feel better man, it gets better with time. 8 months ago I though I couldn't make it and I though death was better than the way I was feeling.

It's really hard when you miss them and they are still right in front of you every day.

During bad times (when I'm discouraged or distraught) I almost wish he'd move away - out of sight out of mind... well he wouldn't be out of mind, but it's hard to be in somebody's presence every day when you know you can't have them.

It's all relative I guess - at least with him still being around there's a chance he could *see* what could be - if he wants it.

JinGA

I have a good one for you - My FWH OW 1 was from a foreign country, in the US on a work visa. Approx 2 weeks after she arrived the A had begun. I believed then and know now that she was trying to get my FWH to leave me & marry her so she could stay in the US. He didn't, and a few months later she "married" her 2nd cousin, with whose family she was staying with when she was carrying on with my FWH. Yuck. The "husband" was aware of the A with my FWH but married her anyway...now I have heard that he abuses her and they are miserable. Hm.

That is just wrong! I wonder why he beats her? Letting out the frustration of his huge mistake, huh.

SG

5 months!!???That is a long time. Are you talking reconcilation or D at this time? She's still with OM???

WHY are we all putting ourselves through this? Is recovery so great that we are willing to put our hearts on the line like this? Can it really be better than before???

(sorry if this is a duplicate post. Looked like my last reply didn't get thru)

No recovery is likely harder than the affair process in a lot of cases. Secondly, and I am only speaking for me, if there are no "young" chidren involved I would never attempt it.

HAP-

Can you tell my why you say that? I'm in that boat - 34 years M with kids grown. Maybe tht's why I'm questioning this. Would like to hear your logic..

I have young kids, but love my wife enough to try...Maybe the kids are a big part of it...Don't know..It is truly going to take a miracle from God for her to come around though, but know He is faithful...