Thanks CJ - you are right on the money as usual.

The darkness of plan B has been soothing. The only trigger I have experienced so far was when the kids and I went to watch a friend of DS6 play t-ball. Seeing the other kids there with both sets of parents was a little depressing - knowing that my kids can't have that right now.

Anyway, the meeting with the GAL went really well. She REALLY liked the notebook idea and commented that she would recommend that in some of her other cases. She also REALLY liked the article that h&p linked above, that it showed that I was not operating on some half-cocked crazy idea that I concocted.

We basically focused on the points communication, plan B, and education. It seemed like she agreed with everything I had to say. That bothers me somewhat but I can't believe that she, being in the position she is in, would agree with me in a face-to-face meeting but then disagree later on. I did not lay all my cards out, though, regarding things my attorney has told me, especially comments she (the GAL) has made to him. I kept the focus primarily on the kids and their best interests, but did comment that I did not think it was in the kids best interests to for WW to stay home all the time becuase it felt to me like she was using that as an excuse to not work. GAL agreed.

The one thing she spoke cautiously about was communication related issues in plan B - which leads to what CJ said above. I've been nothing but dark, but the GAL commented on communicating about some non-emergency issues and why that could be done better face-to-face rather than via the notebook. (for example, signing the kids up for sports or other activities).

We had one potential issue Friday afternoon - while I was meeting with the GAL, WW calls and leaves a message (breaking plan B). I did not want to listen to the message, and I could not get in touch with CJ at the moment, so I had the person helping with the child exchanges (K) call my voice mail and listen to it. It was not a life or death situation, but was regarding the exchange for Friday. Since the e-mails were flying between the lawyers Friday, she was going to bring the kids home at 5pm. I told K to tell WW that I would not be home by 5 and that she should take them to K's house. K later told me that WW said "This is the last time." Whatever.

So I guess the struggle for me is how dark can you be when kids are involved? Especially based on the GAL's comments. If WW calls me, should I first ask her "Is this a life and death situation?" and if it's not direct her to CJ as the intermediary?

I need to spend some time this week getting education issues lined up for my kids. DS6 will be in first grade but I want to switch him to the elementary school that is in the area of where I want to move us to. The sticking point is that I wal want to but DD4 into the K-4 program, but WW was adamantly against that. Well, the GAL felt like it was a good idea to do it, but there is a small catch with scheduling. School start 8/20 and our next mediation is scheduled for 8/23. Perhaps I can have my attorney pursue some kind of agreement this week.

OK, well we are off to church. I'll check in later becuase I am sure I forgot a few things and will remember them soon enough <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seems with "temporary primary placement" you get to call the shots until, at the very least, the hearing where the judge could take it away (God forbid).

Thus...you are left with documenting your reasonable and exhaustive efforts at documenting the issue and failure to agree is OK. YOU have been placed in the primary position right now to make the call. The court trusted YOU.

Just be careful how you wield that authority and mark your words carefully. In the end...YOU decide where the kids are enrolled and in school with deep regrets expressed. It's really to your advantage that by the time of the hearing you will have them already enrolled.

Sure Plan B with kids is tough. The custody and divorce proceedings make it much tougher. The main reason she won't honor Plan B is she (and her attorney) desire to use it as leverage in their case against you. It will get easier.

Mortarman's got some great posts about how to handle phone calls where the wayward calls even though there is no emergency. For a short time you may need to take those calls and allow those calls for your case.

On second thought I don't know why...if you let it go to voice mail then let CJ or someone else listen to it and if it's a non-emergency then give a very delayed response (but a response non-the-less). Try to teach her that using the intermediary is the most efficient way to get a response (and always respond as quickly as possible if she follows the system). Then later...you can demonstrate/state that the system was/is more efficient and communication more effective if SHE would only follow the rules everythime. It will shoot any argument that the system is not best for the kids down in it's tracks.

Good luck,
Mr. W

AMEN, to what Mr. W said. A portion of Plan B is about respecting boundaries. Prior to Plan B, the WS did not behave in a way that indicated they respected the BS very much--much less respecting their personal boundaries. In Plan A the BS is not encouraged to trample their own boundaries, but they ARE encouraged to behave in ways that would meet the WS's ENs and make the BS an attractive option when compared to the OP. Plan B establishes some respect--and even if the WS doesn't show respect, at least the BS is finally enforcing some of their own personal boundaries and respecting THEMSELF.

In a good Plan B, even with kids, don't take calls from the WS. But you know what does happen sometimes? The phone rings, you pick it up without looking, and it's WS. How to handle that?? "Is this an emergency involving blood or fire? It's not. Then as I wrote, I'm going to hang up now." CLICK. Let the WS leave a VM if they insist on calling...and most DO continue to call despite what the BS wrote, because if they respected the BS there probably wouldn't be an A, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thus, one of the BEST ways of enforcing a good Plan B is not only to not take the calls--but also to do as Mr. W suggests when they do call. Make "calling" be a long, inefficient process that is very delayed if there's a response at all...and make "using the intermediary" be a swift, efficient, responsive way of communicating the bare minimum of business-like transactions.

And all along the way, document. Document in your daily calendar each legal maneuver she tries, each time she won't use the notebook, etc. Just make a STATEMENT not a judgement (for example, "WS did not use the notebook to communicate about DS's baseball team signup, then tried to call at the last minute" vs. "WS just will not use the notebook no matter how many times I remind her, and now she's trying to force me to take her phone call about DS's baseball signup!" )



--CJ

Mr. W and CJ are right on. Let me expound on this issue for a minute, as I have been EXACTLY in your shoes!!

First off, if it werent for the court issues and your kids, you could NEVER take another call or listen to her again. But, since you do have kids and are in a custody battle, then you must be very deliberate in your steps. I also had primary custody. And as such, the issues you are confronting, I also had to confront. So, here is how I handled it.

As I said, in a perfect world, you would be perfectly dark with her. No direct or indirect communications. But, this is not possible. So, how do you do Plan B? How do you stay as dark as possible? How do you defend your boundaries, as CJ talked about above?

First, let me show you an instance where my wife broke Plan B a year ago, after we had gone to court. This particular day, my youngest son had baseball practice (he always has had practice on Tuesdays and Thursdays). I am the manager of the team. Her days with the kids were Monday night, Tuesday and Wednesday. So, she had been making a huge ruckus about my son not coming to baseball practices on her time, as she put it. I had repeatedly (thru the approved Plan B avenues) told her that this schedule was the one he had always had, that I wasnt moving it just for her (as there are 12 other kids on the team) and that I would let my attorney know of this. And then I documented it.

So, on this Tuesday, she shows up 20 minutes late with my son. She stays in the parking lot for a few minutes, then text messages me that she is going to the store, but will be back at the end of practice to pick up my son. So far, so good, right? Well, while she is at the store, she text messages me again...that she isnt going to do this anymore and that he will no longer be coming on her time. In my one relapse, I text back "You are a piece of work."

Anyway, the end of practice comes. I am out picking up baseballs and equipment on the field, talking with my coaches, as the players are heading to their cars. And out onto the field walks my wife. And she commences to go off on me. Screaming and yelling. Threatening me.

Know what I did? Nothing. I didnt even look at her. I just sat on a ball bucket and waited for her to run out of air. Eventually, she just left in a huff. Two of my coaches and several parents (as well as a few players) saw the whole thing.

The next day, my attorney got a letter faxed to him from her attorney, with them stating that I had been verbally abusive, that I was making decisions for my son on her time and a whole host of other issues. Know what my attorney sent to her attorney in return? Nothing. No response. No explanation. But...EVERYTHING was documented. My attorney just told me that with all of the witnesses, that my wife would just go up on the stand and tell her story...and then everyone we brought in would refute it. And that would put her in a very bad situation with the judge.

The point of all of this Eph is that Plan B and these methods arent some crack pot idea that you are being asked to implement. These plans have been used for years and well documented and researched. They work. But each situation is slightly different. So, as the battfield commander on the ground, it is YOU that must make the call in each specific instance. And you did well in the cases above.

Now, were there times that my wife was able to talk to me? Sure. She might catch me out in public, or at the front door during kid exchanges. Or, even catch me picking up the phone by accident. So, what did I do in most of those cases? Well, I did exactly as I did in the baseball instance. I said NOTHING. Here is an example of a BS accidentally answering the phone...

BS: "Hello."
WS: "Hey. I wanted to talk to you."
BS: ((((Silence))))
WS: "Are you there?"
BS: "Is this an emergency?"
WS: "No. But I was thinking about a few things and just wanted to talk with you about them."
BS: (((Silence)))
WS: "Are you going to talk to me?"
BS: (((Silence)))
WS: "This is childish. All I wanted to do was talk to you about a few things and you cant even act like an adult. You can be such a baby."
BS: (((Silence)))
WS: "Well, it is your loss. This why we can never be together. Blah, blah, blah..."
BS: (((Silence)))
WS: "Well, I guess I will hang up now."
BS: Click.

Another way I handled it, when I got caught on the phone, was to just ask her if she was ready to live up to the PBL. When she said no or digressed, then I just said that until she was, I had nothing to say and I had to go. And then I hung up before hearing her response.

The better way to handle this is to be careful and not answer the phone unless you are sure who it is. I got a second line in the house with a distinctive ring for the kids. When that ring happened, they would always I answer. I never would. If the main line rang, I would always check caller ID. If it was her or I didnt know who it was, then all of those calls went to voicemail.

Now, you can handle the voicemails in one or two ways. You can have someone else check the VM for you and let you know what she said or wanted. Or, you can check them. Sure, that sort of is contact. But as I said, there is no way to go completely dark with kids. Whether it be the notebook, VMs intermediaries or text messages, some interaction has to happen.

The key to this is that you enforce your boundaries. If you will allow text messages, then there is no problem with that. Or if it is VMs, then that will be the acceptable way to trade info. But, if the acceptable way is VMs and she text messages, then respond back to her in the appropriate format. In thsi example, dont text her back. Leave a voicemail.

These are just examples. The key is that you must enforce your boundaries...but at the same time conduct the legal business of raising your children with your wife. It is a delicate balance. And you wont be perfect all the time, especially early on!

And think about this for a minute. If you are home, and the approved way for her to give or ask for information is via text messages, then if she text messages you, are you obligated to respond immediately? Of course not! What if you were sleeping, or in the shower, or out for a run? So, if she text messages you, she may have caught you at a bad time. And unless it is a bona fide emergency, she doesnt need or warrant an immediate response. You will get back to her when and if you have a response and are prepared to respond.

Sometimes, in the text message example here, she may send a text that requires no response. Example...

WW text: "I decided to get our daughter's hair trimmed this afternoon. Just thought you should know."
BH text: No response. This doesnt require input by you. She neither deserves or warrants a thank you or anything else like that. You just receive the information and store it.

Here is another...

WW text: "I just found out today is the last day for swimming sign-ups. They will swim on Tuesday, Thursdays and Saturday mornings. Since you have them on the weekends, I wanted to make sure you are onboard with this.
BH text: "I am onboard. Send receipt for cost and I will cover half." This text by her required a response, and a timely one at that. If you didnt respond, the kids might not be able to swim. But, your response is matter of fact. No thank-you's. No discussion. Notice, in my example, I didnt ask for anything. I just stated that I am onboard and I will cover half the cost of the registration fees.

Remember, for now, your wife is dead. So intimate discussions with a stranger (which is who your wife is right now) no longer can happen. This is a business transaction. And should be kept at that level.

As has been said, your wife is not liking this. She wants contact with you. Since you have been doing a great Plan A, she needs you to fill the ENs you have been filling. But she gets none of that now.

By going dark, she is on her own. She will feel even more lonely and afraid. This is good. It is those feelings that will help her understand what she feels for you. And that she has been so wrong in all of this!

And by going dark, you are in control again. You get to decide when and how interactions happen with your wife. You get to structure your life and the lives of your children, in a way that takes out most of the damage that your wife is inflicting upon all of you.

As Mr. W stated above, some interactions on some level are inevitable. How you handle them will decide whether your Plan B is successful. And success is measured in how you feel, are you moving forward, is your family moving foward. It is not measured in whether your wife has had a cranial-rectal extraction.

So, enforce your boundaries. Respond appropriately in all communications that are in the prescribed manner AND that warrant a response.

Any others require only silence.

This will get easier. Right now, she is in bully mode and entitlement mode. She believes that you HAVE to do whatever she wants. This is not the case, and she doesnt like it. So, she will try to bully you into interacting with her. When that doesnt work, she well pull back for awhile out of anger. Dont let that silence make you feel that she has just given up.

It was in that silence that my wife began to find the truth again. The truth about me...and the truth about herself. I nthat silence, she found a lonely place. She also found where she was supposed to be...and where she wanted to be.

In that silence, I found peace. In that silence, I regained my footing and began to take command again...to be the Mortarman I was before everythign had come crashing down. In that silence, I became a better dad. I got closer to the Lord. And I found that I was going to be alright no matter how it all turned out.

You too will get there. remember, you are in command. You know the guidelines...but it is up to you to implement them. And in each case, you will need to make the call on how to react.

Keep up the good work.

MM and everyone - thanks for your timely advice.

Mr.W - I have not pushed the "temporary primary placement" aspect of the current custody situation. Maybe it's time for that, especially for matters in which we reach am impasse (like school for DD4).

My main concern is being consistent, something she always wants to bring up and throw up in my face. In my letter I said don't call, leave messages, e-mail, etc, and only call in life and death matters. Now I'm gonna go back on that and "accept" some form of small communication? Then what's the point of having given her the PBL?

I got this e-mail from her this afternoon:


This was the response I quickly typed up:


Thoughts? I think this one warrants a response especially in light of her boldness in breaking plan B already and my need to establish boundaries.

Sheesh - now she just sent me a TM asking to talk to the kids tonight and when it was convenient for them to call her.

Funny thing is anytime I ask the kids if they want to call mommy the both say "No," and run away when I bring the phone to them.

So I guess I really need to nip this communication issue in the bud ASAP.

No, do not repsonse yet...this is another form of her trying to control the sitch...hold on...

before you send...let's get some ideas...

i think that you can use this to your advantage in court alos...

haven't sent it yet - it's a saved draft.

Can't wait to see her next e-mails .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

EPH,

Have you tried forcing the use of the intermediary? I mean not responding unless she uses CJ?

Just my POV, but she is trying to force you to come out of the darkness, this is munipulation of her part...please do not allow her to have control over you...

Her and POWS are about the same in my book...two peas in a pod...

Let her wait as long as it takes...TBH, personally, I wouldn't response to that AT ALL...force her to use CJ...

She's still playing games, not fall into the trap...

JMHO, but it seems she is betting on you being weak...just like POWS was betting on me...

Hold strong right now!

Oh, I have been dark. I have not responded directly to her at all. Only CJ and K (3rd party person helping with child exchanges) have responded to her. Oh, and our lawyers and the GAL as well.

Couple of e-mails from Friday:
My sent one stating that I would prefer her to return the kids to a neutral place rather than his house, and that it fit my schedule better and is probably more convenient for her (WW) too.

Her lawyer replied that WW does not find that to be the case at all and does not want to involve third parties, and that I should utilize their residences as ordered.

Like I said before - K's house is 1 mile from WW's house, while our house (kids and I) is around 4-5 miles away. That's not more convenient? Riiiiight.

I think the best way to handle this is to forward the email to CJ, then CJ responds by emailing an email back to you which you forward to her.

This, of course, is cumbersome...but that's the point. If she wants/needs a quicker response...she's better off just using CJ as this way requires you and CJ to handle things in a more drawn out...time consuming manner.

Perhaps a brief note when you forward it...never mind...CJ's response should include the following:

"This is making things more difficult. Since you are blocking my emails...then that necessitates Eph forwarding your emails to him to me ...unread...to which I have to respond and reply back to him and he has to forward it on to you...again, unread. Of course, if this is how you demand communications be handled then it is fine...just realize this form will cause substantial delays that could be averted by you. Seems easier on all involved if we just communicate directly with the exception of emergencies involving the children. Wouldn't you agree???"

Mr. Wondering

Rin - agree with you completely, but just trying to cover the legal bases here as well. I will not lose what I have worked so hard to build up so far, and if "some" communication is necessary to do that then I will.

BTW...being dark includes:

Not opening up her emails which are not titled "emergency". Perhaps CJ should include in the note that if she chooses to email this difficult way that any real emergency regarding the kids should include the term "911" or "emergency" in the subject line. Eph will open and read such emails as long as such method is not abused for non-emergency matters.

Mr. Wondering

On the other hand,

CJ could just respond to emails as though she were you. You could give her access to a new yahoo or other email address and you/she could advise WW that that is the specific email address she is to utilize only. If it's an emergency...she is again advised to text message you directly...which will mean all emails can get a delayed response sufficient for you and CJ to work together to make certain all emails are handled.

WW believes she is communicating with you....but she's not.
There is nothing unreasonable about making her use a specific email address for non-emergency matters.

Mr. Wondering

Forward this text message to CJ and have her text her back and indicate a simple "yes"...

OR

Indicate by an email through you from CJ stating something to the effect that there is no reason to text message Eph for any non-emergency matters such as asking him to have the kids call you as you did today. He ALWAYS has had the kids call you even when they do not want to. You know this but yet delibertly text messaged him in an attempt to circumvent/frustrate the established reasonable means of communications. This is the exact type of communication that disrupts and futher subjects Eph to emotional turmoil during his time with the children that we hope to avoid by utilizing communication through me. In accordance with the established practice, from now on...Eph will attempt to have the children call you EVERY night between the hours of 7 - 9 pm on your cell phone when he has the children. The same courtesy is expected in return. (CJ can come up with the rest).

You could even set the time a little more rigidly to avoid any more attempts to communicate unnecessarily about this issue. Each issue she utilizes must thereafter be closed to discussion thereafter. If she continues to push resolved issues it can be used to demonstrate her continued frustrating the established process and custom and demonstrate HER inability to cooperate and coparent effectively. (maybe CJ can say something to this effect..."Co-parenting is a two way street. Your continued, unneccessary and abusive use of unagreed to forms of communication for innocuous matters is disrupting the quite reasonable and effective methods of communication we have set out. Incessant emailing, texting and calling whatever YOU want is not necessary for effective co-parenting and is frankly not an option. If you have an better option for you and I to communicate so Eph and his children can enjoy their family time in peace I'd be happy to discuss it with you. My phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx."

Mr. Wondering

double post...sorry.

CJ's got some work to do. The beginning of Plan B is always difficult when children are involved.

Keep trying to get dark.

Mr. W

Eph,

If it helps, I started with specific times the kids would call Drac or that they were to call me. He has not held up his end on this.

I have a separate cell phone that he can call if he wants to talk to them. If they ask to call him, I always allow it

He doesn't do a good job of having the phone accessible when I call the kids, but o have chosen not to make an issue of that just yet. I think he's just trying to push my buttons and with it so early on Plan B I am choosing not to take the bait. As long as I get to talk to them sometime each day I am OK

It is, for me, a question of choosing my battles. You have a pretty big one on your hands. Good thing you are getting such great advise and CJ has your back!!

Eph,

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to primarily respond here because as you know, other folks "read and learn" here too.

First, very politely you made a mistake replying to her at all. Please, before you ever reply to her IN ANY WAY, at least come on here to MB to get some wise council--folks can talk a little sense to ya. The mistake that you made was not so much in "what" you said...as in the fact that the message sent to WW is "push this button and you will get a response out of him." Especially if you consider WHAT she wrote, it really requires no response from you other than maybe to resend the PBL...maybe. The message you want to communicate to the WS is that you have set this boundary and you will not cross it unless there is blood or fire. The WS's tactic is going to be: "I know what pushes his or her buttons and what they are afraid of...I'm going push those buttons until I get a response." Sooooo..do not respond, Eph. STAY DARK!! Meanwhile live and learn and let's move forward, okay?

Next, let me tell you what to expect. Every WS is different in their delivery, and yet as I'm sure you've noticed by now, in many ways WS's are the same. Sometimes, I swear...it's as if they have a Wayward Handbook!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, here's what you can expect. Some WS's immediately start with a BARRAGE of calls, emails, and TM's trying to get the BS to crack. Others, like your WW, are more subtle. She is NOT liking the fact that she no longer has you under her control, but rather than respond like a blazing star that quickly burns out, she is choosing to take the manipulative route, poking one-by-one each of your buttons until you break. This is a slower, more methodical way -- vs. the "burn until I scare them into compliance" way. So you can expect your WW to keep trying legal maneuvers (but you've already got that covered), personal attacks, little threats, and veiled attempts to contact directly...sometimes THROUGH others (such as "telling on you" to your pastor that you won't talk to her).

Eph, it is vitally important that you see her attempts for what they are: ATTEMPTS TO RE-ENGAGE YOU AND CONTINUE HAVING HER NEEDS MET. At this point, I think the main EN you meet (in a weird way) is that if life is unhappy and you are around, it must be you--whereas if you are really out of her life and she's still unhappy who's she going to blame her unhappiness on?? Since you did respond to her today, and especially since you included that snide little comment about having mom and dad stay together ..."are you ready to do what it takes to do that?" she now has met her need. She can stew about how mean you are all night now and blame you for everything. See?? So don't give the drug addict the drug that she is so desperately trying to get from you!!

Here is a reality check for you. You have offered her THREE REASONABLE methods of communication that do not involve directly speaking to her: via intermediary CJ, via intermediary at kid exchange location, and via the Notebook. You have offered to listen to her suggestions of someone else for intermediary and/or kid exchange location. You have offered to bring the kids to the driveway and drop them at her house with the Notebook going back and forth with the kids. You have made offer after offer, and her only response has been refusal to even discuss it or consider it. She won't make suggestions. She won't use the Notebook. She won't use intermediaries. She won't co-parent in any way!! That's her decision. She can choose to have a temper tantrum rather than co-parent, and you can't stop her -OR- make her cooperate. What you CAN do is use your resources and document how you are making emotionally and personally HEALTHY choices, offering her reasonable options, and being cooperative and including her (when you do not need to according to the court order!)--and HER response has been unhealthy, demanding, unreasonable, uncooperative and dismissive of respecting you! I have plenty of written documentation of OUR attempts to co-parent with her...what documentation does she have of her attempts to deal with you as equal parent? NONE!

So in summary...do not respond to her again. Do not allow her to suck you in like this. When she does try to email, call, or TM...say a prayer or meditate...and send it to me or your kid exchange person. You don't need to discuss, "what time are the kids calling me?"...IGNORE stuff like that because no response is warranted. Just have the kids call AT THE NORMAL TIME (consistency..see??). You just do not need to respond to her every Wayward demand for attention...okay??

Finally...I can't say this enough...DOCUMENT. Write this in your daily calendar, using a factual, business-like statement. If she gets NO response from you, and the ONLY way she'll get a response is through me or kid exchange person or Notebook, then EVENTUALLY she will have to use one of us, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

STAY DARK!!!!! You are using your thoughts, time and energy thinking about her and her silly little WS attempts to break Plan B. You HOLD FIRM and use your thoughts, time and energy working on peace and tranquility for Eph.

If you have to, turn your cell off, take the phone off the hook, and turn off your computer. You do not "have to" be online ya know. If those things that are supposed to be useful tools are harming you...unplug them!


Your mama bee,



CJ