Lost, your situation was one that I discussed with a friend tonight and I am left to wonder if you are in a position where you feel compelled to absolve your H of a great amount of responsibility concerning the death of the BH. I would imagine that absent your seeing a loophole in this whole fiasco, you would be left married to man that was very instrumental in the death of an innocent. If you take a look at Bob's story... I would say that the WW and the Om in that case are as guilty as if they hanged him themselves. Are you afraid to see the damage that your H has helped bring to that family because you wouldn't be able to live with a man that committed such a "crime?" Imagine the depth that your H has sunk to knowing that his affair could continue even after the death of his "competition."
I think that rightfully so right now, your H is carrying a burden around with him that could well impact him for the rest of his life.
As far as the level of trauma that she has dealt with... I have watched people die...some have died in my arms...and I can tell you that sometimes it hits all at once and other times....it hits years later. It is not always a reflection of the amount of pain....just an ability to process.
Personally....while she may have gone "fatal attraction" your H at a minimum directed the movie. If I were in his shoes, based on his own behavior, I would learn to sleep with one eye open. You are an innocent in this...and it is a shame that any of this has touched you...but I would be very surprised if this was entirely over.

believer,


Actually, she did leave him during one of the times my WH had come home to me. And I thought the same thing you did, I would never do to my worst enemy what she has done to me. Especially the part of acting like my friend.

Yeah, she's a pig. I left her a voicemail once asking her why she had to take away the only man I ever loved. This was recently. She called my WH & told him about the VM. She said the answer was 'because she wanted him.' He asked her if she always got what she wanted & she said no. He told her I had a right to feel the way I did. You know, if she'd been younger & prettier, I think I could have understood it better. I've since found out how trashy she is. Like the night she came to a club I was at & sat at the table with me, one person between us. I wish everyone, including my WH, could've seen the way she acted. And, to my credit, I wouldn't look her in the face, even when she walked in front of me. She wanted me to hit her, but I wouldn't stoop that low.

Like I said, I think she wanted him to off himself so she wouldn't have to deal with him after the divorce, because she knew he would never leave her alone.

Everyone, thanks for the input, even the stuff I don't quite agree to. But everyone has the right to their own opinion. I let my WH read them all. Some he didn't like, some seem to make him think. He read the story bob posted. It was very sad & when WH commented that it was awful, I said I know the feeling that caused it. To his credit, my WH & OW did not flaunt their A that blatantly. They didn't go to each other's houses & didn't do a big public thing about it or go out of town together like that. Actually, in the town where WH works, our DD#1 lives, so he had to be careful where he went with her so they didn't run into DD#1. That would not have been good. Thank God for small favors. I have never seen them anywhere together, except D-day & I never saw her face that morning, she hid under the bedspread.

Still, maybe something he saw here got through to him. He seems to be leaning more toward me than her right now. Her best friend at his work tells him it's none of his business if he asks about her.

I will still appreciate any more comments & posts about this sitch. And anything from anyone who has actually been in this sitch. I think he's beginning to realize he's not alone. I hope I can get him to talk to someone here on this board.

Can you call the Harleys? I think you need professional help, especially with this sad issue.

medc,

No, I feel he is partially responsible because of the A. But I don't think he should take TOTAL blame for it because she is equally to blame. I say this because I know for a fact that she went after my WH & not the other way around. I wonder sometimes if it was for revenge on her W/BH. But, upon learning of his history of threatening this, I also see it as a control issue. He wanted to control her by doing it in front of her. I'm not really sure he picked my WH's plant because of my WH or because the security guard on duty was his best friend & would call 911 when he did it.

I don't want my WH to take total & complete blame for something he didn't want to happen. I don't like him feeling obligated to her because of it. Because of the threat of bodily harm to my WH & to her W/BH, NC had been established to prevent this. But it didn't matter anyway.

I want him to say, "yeah, I had an A with OW. yeah, her W/BH committed suicide. but I'm back with my W & I am going to stay there & we will work through this together."

Life is about choices, choices to kill yourself, to have an A, to have children, to live. Despair can drive someone to make a choice. But it can also drive them to chose to do the opposite of what they feel they want to do, to find a reason to live. I've always believed that if you think you're making a mistake, it probably is & you shouldn't do it.

There also exists the possibility that he didn't mean to pull the trigger, that because he waited until her car was even with him, he meant to scare her into stopping & giving him what he wanted. Just as he'd done before. But he also talked to his pastor who told him that he could still go to Heaven if he committed suicide, he just had to be saved first. I'm a preacher's daughter, I don't believe that. I don't believe you can ask for forgiveness for something & then do it anyway. Sin is sin, if you're forgiven, you shouldn't do it. I consider suicide to be 1 of the 2 unforgivable sins. Denying God is the 1st.

I know my WH carries some guilt for this. My purpose in this thread was so he could see that he is not alone, that others have been where he is now. He thinks no one else has ever been in this sitch before so therefore can't possibly know how he feels. I think he's wrong about that. I've found people here who are in similar if not exactly the same sitch I'm in. It feels good having a place to talk to someone who understands. I want him to eventually see this as a place he can come to.

I'm glad he read them all. I hope he sees he's not alone.

believer,

If I can ever find a way to afford it, I will. Right now our financial sitch prevents that. He went to a local IC but felt worse when he left. And won't go back. I was in IC but finances have stopped that temporarily. But the IC's here don't do things like the Harleys do.

I know it sounds like I'm making excuses for him & maybe I am. Because I love him & I've never wanted anyone to think bad about him. I just don't want him to take total blame for something he was not totally responsible for. None of us really know what her W/BH was thinking that day, not even her.

If you live close to Longview, there are counselors at Mobberly who are very familiar with MB. That is how I got here.

Stop communicating with the OW. She is toxic. Her H committed suicide, they had problems of their own. The A was additional drama and in the OW's case, there will always be drama.

Is your H responsible? As much as anyone who enables the OW's ways. So in a sense yes, he is. OW's H threatened suicide for lots of reasons b4 the A as well, right? So this isn't something new. It was a pattern of which the OW s/b punished for NOT doing something corrective about it. Instead she choose to make matters worse and incorporate others (i.e. you and your H) why? Because of her selfish need.

She is toxic and if your WS wants t/b around toxic you ought to get away ASAP from the WS. Because you can see what it has already done to you.

I am sorry to hear anyone committed suicide but that is OW's family and the issue needs to stay there. If your H is dumb enough to continue contact with the OW, you ought to get away ASAP!

JMHO,
L.

Lost
You should perhaps know that I attempted suicide just after D-day. Out of my mind with grief and full of alcohol and ADs I drove my sports car into a tree. I was too drunk to aim straight and walked away from the wreck with cuts. Thank God !.

I can fully understand when a BS just wants to get away from the pain permanently.

My process of pain after D-Day #3 hit me like a concrete block (nearly literally) when I was driving with a client nobody liked with me in the car.

In my stupor (even though I don't drink), I thought I would do my co-workers a favor and take the client out with me by slamming my car into a concrete bridge abutment.

More than might admit it have experienced A-related suicidal tendencies. The weak ones succeed, I didn't....... with a little help from what I now believe was an angelic vision of the harm such a selfish act would do to my children.

Had I succeeded, it seems that my H would have felt the same tremendous guilt, which I discovered later in MC.

Ace

Can he not look past what is done and see what is NOW?
Yes, he was probably loading some kindling into the already deranged mind of the W/BS, but he has to see that his suffering on thi earth is over. He is now doing to you and your kids what he "thinks" he did to W/BS, Can he not see your suffering and your pain?

Its' time you stood up on your hind legs and said "What about ME?, what about our kids?" It's time he stopped wallowing in it and be a man, and that means leaving OW in the dust. She after all, is not his victim. She had a part in this, she was a volunteer in this affair. This one is on her, moreso, than your WS.

This man is abusive to you, whether you see it or not.
Getting mad over an accident! So what, he's always pouted since childhood. It gives him no excuse as an adult.

Why haven't we heard "Thank God and Greyhound, he's gone?"
I think you should be getting pretty close. Sorry that this is so harsh, but, girl you are worth so much more than he is giving!

lost...

please can we cut the smokescreen...

all of these opinions here about this issue....
(which is not a reflection at all of the dear dear posters who have shared their thoughts, opinion, and trial )

is like just fodder to feed the philosophical aspect....

when the reality of what you have is a husband who verbalizes feeling bad enough to hurt himself....

mucked up with a long history of feigned and real suicide attempts...

the reality is your husband is in crisis...

how ironic to play twenty twenty hindsight....

with past suicide threats and attempts...

when right in front of you is a husband verbalizing suicidal ideation...

does he have a plan...how when where
does he have access to execute the plan....

does he promise to tell someone prior to execution...

those are the questions professionals care about.....

those are the core issues.....

you have NO plan...to address what's right in front of you
you have NO plan to addess the reality of his verbalizations...


you have NO plan...
and I am begging you to get one...

for all of this...

for the suicidal ideation verbalized by him
for the sanctimoniuos blathering he repeatedly hits you with that you placate...

this place marriage builders is alllllll about a plan...

not perfect
not with an ounce of garuntee....
but a place atleast to ground a person when they are acting only on what they know from the past...

I am not convinced that this site can save anyone....
it's not the end all and be all...

but it is what it is....

a set philosophy of how to address the same old age old since man walked up right and marriage was established stain ...

infidelity...

period...

the philosophical question that needs taken from the philosophical realm and brought down to reality

is

what is YOUR plan....

cause until you pick a plan...

I have no idea how to help you...

ARK

Interesting point. When I was in undergraduate school, I did a research paper on the police treatment of rape victims. Mind you, this was back in the day when there were nearly zero women working in law enforcement. I interviewed dozen of police officers in more than one state and over and over again got the same response to my questions. Bottom line was that nearly half of reported rape accusations ended up to be a fabrication either entirely or to some extent.

A few years later, I saw this first hand. One night when I was an Army MP 2LT pulling time as Duty Officer, I responded to a rape allegation. The situation involved two teenage family members of different races. They were having sex outdoors in the family housing area when a neighbor discovered them and called the girls parents. All of a sudden, the girl claimed rape. Clearly, what was actually consentual became rape.





You can add my name to the list of BS who attempted suicide. I took nearly 100 extra strength tylenol PM's just a couple of weeks following D-day. Then I ran from the house and hid in the woods for several hours to make sure they were completely in my system.

I ended up in the hospital for five days in ICU with everyone including the doctors, myself and my family not knowing whether I would live or die.

Yes, my FWH's actions caused the pain and anger that brought me to the point of decision. But I made the decision.

In the end, I believe that if I had not survived, my FWH would have followed suit. Heck, the only one who would have survived the A, would have been the OW, and I know without a doubt that she would have felt no guilt.

Lost,

IMHO, the OW doesn't feel guilty here, she is using her BH's suicide as yet another means of keeping your WH involved. He needs to commit to NC right now and stick with it or you need to remove yourself from this drama.

Before OW comes after you with a gun.

Who

l24y:

This thread reads more like a "what if" discussion than your other thread. I posted my view on this subject on your other thread. I'm a bit uncomfortable with the "feel" I get here that by putting your efforts in2 this thread rather than the one more directly about your sitch - all of it - that your WH is using this discussion as a means of detaching himself from the responsibility he has in this, however small compared with what the OWH may or may not have done.

But I will post about this comment of yours:


Doesn't matter a hill of beans where or at what angle he's leaning. The affair is not over until it's completely over.

Get away from him. Plan B his sorry @$$. Stop worrying about how far he's leaning and in what direction. That's his pathetic problem.

-ol' 2long

agree 100%

If it's time for Plan B, then lost needs some input on what specific steps she can take to help her get into Plan B.

Finances are a problem, neither of them can afford to live on their own. She has tried to kick her H out of the house several times, but it hasn't worked. He generally refuses to go. At one point he was living in the camper outside, but coming in the house for showers, etc. He's moved back in to the house in the last couple of months, sometimes in the bedroom, sometimes on the couch, and at that point she promised that she won't ever kick him out again.

There is the potential for a job in another city for her H, but that hasn't gone anywhere in a while.

Their house is on the market, but hasn't sold yet. They also still have one child in high school.

So she has some big hurdles to get over in order to get into Plan B. Does anyone have suggestions on how she can make enough of a break from him when combined they can barely afford a place as it is, so she obviously can't afford to get a place for herself, and he refuses to leave the house?

Melody,

I live about 45 miles from Longview. I didn't know there were any IC's here who were familiar with MB. Thanks for the info.

To everyone,

Thanks for the help. As stupid as it sounds, I still love him. Don't know why & have never needed a reason. Just because. That's why I've stayed. I don't think my WH will ever go through with a suicide attempt because of the kids. But I know the despair he feels when he gets to that point. Because of my religious beliefs, I would never attempt it. But as much as I love him, & I love him more than anything, I would never kill myself over him because I have 2 girls who still need me, even though they're pretty much grown. I've told him that. I think he feels the same way.

Guilt can do a lot of damage to a person. I'm seeing it firsthand now. Yes, he needs help, but until he hits the lowest point in his life, just like an alcoholic or drug addict, he'll never get it. I'm almost there.

Yes, I feel she is using this to keep him with her. But I can't stop her. He has to. I feel she is no danger to me because she is afraid of me.

Another reason I've stayed is finances. I can't make it on my own right now unless the house sells. My biggest fear is he has told her to wait for him until the house sells so he can afford a divorce & be with her. That I'm being played like a fine violin. I can't tell anymore when he's being sincere & truthful.

How do you turn the love off??

I started this thread so he could finally see that he's not unique, not alone & that someone else has been where he is.

AMi..
Lots of suggestions have been and are being made...

they just aren't being heard...

they are all filtered first off with

but I love him...

so what?
is my answer to that...

in that love
there is so much enabling...

enabling of childish
actions
and verbalizations....

lost you yourself engage verbally with him with outrageous
statements...

stating lets date others
agreeing to live together and pretend on the outside that everything is go while going seperate ways in the home...

being part of a patern in which you agree or placate ridiculous statements with the notion since he doens't REALLY mean them..there's no harm or foul in him expressing them....

the relentless relationship talk with him which right now is futile and empty....

the disregarding of suicidal ideation....

the answer to you need a plan is NOT that you love him...

dr. Dobson wrote love must be tough...
not
since you love him go ahead and run the whole thing in to the ground....

How about if this was me ..
I'd move my OWN [censored] in to the camper...

does is mother live near by..
He can go live there...

does your mother live near by..
you and your child can go live there...

ARK

You can love him but not make stupid choices based on loving what is now a WS.

Love your H instead. I am sure your H w/b appalled to know you are enabling any type of A behavior. In fact, your non-action is showing your H you don't love him but are willing to support the WS instead of your H. What kind of loyalty is that?

Your mind and heart are not in sync. That's one reason why you are stagnant in your progress. You will stay in that mode until you lose all your love for him. It w/b wasted energy since the WS wants to see you lose and suffer endless pain.

Are these harsh words? Yes....they are given to make you see things as they really are so you can make some real productive plans and not waste time wallowing after a WS when your H needs you.

Let us know when you want to know how to plan A your H and plan B the WS.

L.

After reading the responses to this thread last night, all except orchid's, my WH looked at me & said "I just realized something."

"what" I asked. "I just realized how much you really do love me." he replied. "That's what I've been telling you." I told him. He said "I know. But I just now really & truly realized it & you know what? I love you."

The fog lifted temporarily & I saw my H again. He had tears in his eyes. I wanted to jump for joy but not yet. He told me he wanted to make this work because he has to. I asked why. Because I want it to, that's why, he said.

Yes some of the things he read here made him mad. But some of them made him think also. I'm not saying it's finally over & the fog is gone. I'm holding back on that right now. But I felt better for the rest of the night & this morning. We'll see. I know one thing for sure. We haven't been arguing because when he starts to argue, I just look at him & say, "I'm not going to argue with you. We can talk about this in a normal tone or you can go away until you cool down." Then I say no more & walk away. The house has been peaceful in the last few weeks. Almost like it was when we first married.

I think he talked to OW on Tuesday. I'm not sure if I should bring it up or leave it alone & see how things will go after last night. The things I started in my probably not-so-good Plan A, I have kept up. Cleaning house, picking up after myself, making his lunch & getting up with him every morning. Doing things for him just because I want to, not because I have to. When he came home Monday from his fishing trip, the house was clean & there was no argument & no bad mood. He noticed & told me he appreciated it. I'm getting better every day with the cleaning thing even though there are other things I'd rather do. I understand now in a way I never did before that it was one of his EN. Ain't it funny how someone can explain something in a different way & you can finally see what someone wanted you to see?

I'm hoping now after reading this, he will start to deal with the guilt. My MIL told me guilt can either save you or destroy you, it's your choice as to what you let it do to you. I think she's right.

until he ends all contact and you are willing to hold him accountable for that...this is all just words. Yu have been dealing with EMPTY words of NC since last October...yes...almost a year! Words mean nothing without consistent actions. It is like he wants to give you a little nibble of what you need just to keep you pacified for a while longer...and he is good at this. If you keep meeting his EN's even though he has not ended contact...tell me...what possible reason will he have to ever completely sever ties with the POS OW.