I have no idea what this means so I can't respond. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


But you think its ok to commit abortion and defend it. You think its ok to suggest that your honey abort your baby so you won't be inconvenienced, just as long as you don't call someone a "scumbag." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Well, I think abortion and its bumper sticker advocacy is quite "rude," and extremely offensive. It makes me want to vomit.


Then why come here and defend abortion? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Like I said, you know absolutely nothing about this type of situation other than your passing your harsh judgements onto others about how you would react in their situation and shoving your beliefs and feelings down their throats.

How you can hand out advice on something you have no personal experience of or any professional capability?

I assume you were either a BS or WS so advice on an affair, fair enough. You have stated you had to fight for custody of your son, so advice in that respect ... fair enough.

But I see no evidence of you dealing with an affair which resulted in an OC so you pass judgement all you want on other people's decisions, but you have no idea about the situation until you live it.

I am not getting into a debate about whether or not a child should have both biological parents involved in their upbringing, whether they can have a better upbringing without one of those parents even being involved ... but it isn't simply black and white.

I don't have any experience with jumping off a bridge...but I can advise against it.


Oh...and BTW...I also had to fight to keep my son alive as his mom said I had no say in the matter when she scheduled his abortion....and the law supports that. Let me tell you as a 12 year old, he has some pretty strong feelings about his mom's handling of things back then.

And YOU have no experience watching YOUR child living in a situation on a daily basis that by any ones estimation is less than ideal...yet, you condemn your H's child to that very existence. Why...because you can. Either fight to get that child removed from there and raise him in a good home...or stfu. . She (the kids mother) is doing more than you to help that kid up and until you assume the parenting role that both you and your H have so conveniently abdicated.

I posted a comment about jumping on someone for considering abortion. I then defended myself when being jumped on, not defending abortion in this situation.

confused70, what is black and white is that a child of adultery is just as valuable as any other child. One does not have to "live through it" to know that. Your inconvenience/pain/whatever does not negate that true fact. I have never been murdered, but I feel fairly confident in saying that murder is immoral. Sure, there is baggage involved in an OC's presence, but that question has been stamped ANSWERED once he is conceived.

The questions of quality of life should have been addressed before, not after. But here is the most important point ------------> a child's VALUE is not contingent upon his "quality of life." All life has value. So, you can talk all you want about his imagined "quality of life" but it is irrelevant to his value as a human being.

Yes, you did:

Yet again, you show yourself for only being able to put your point across by being aggressive and name calling. Are you incapable of having a discussion without those?

So you think it's wrong a man not having C with a child he did not even know was his until that child is 2 months old? You do not think a child can have a loving and happy upbringing with two parents when one is not their biological parent?

If the child's wellbeing is number one priority, then who is to say, their upbringing has to include being dragged through to courts? Being dragged between two families? Being reminded every day/weekend/fortnight that they are the result of an infidelity?

If the child having their biological mother and father involved in their upbringing from the beginning is most important then I'm quite frankly shocked that you suggested adoption to the poster in this thread.

So what are your views on adoption?

Anyone up to helping Luis save his marriage???

not until Luis is ready to do so himself.

My point there is IMO the child does not necessarily have to have both biological parents involved in their upbringing ... not that she should get rid of the baby because of it.

Luis - In addition to the already recommended books may I suggest one more: 'Wild at Heart' by John Eldridge. Something you posted made me think this particular author has great empathy for men in your situation. I think it would be a great book to read and discuss with your wife, again in addition to the other books already suggested.

I've tried giving him some reassurance and some advice ... but people others seem set on shouting people down.

Thats my last say on all this abortion matter.

Lets hope Luis comes back for some more advice and to show he is trying to sort out his life.

Oh, I see. So you are in fact ANTI-ABORTION? Can you lead me to the post where you have expressed this view?

It was a little confusing when you jumped on someone for name calling, but NOT on someone for suggesting abortion because it would have been troublesome and then followed up with some favored pro-abortion cliches.

Point out where I said or implied this. I think you and your H should seek full custody and as I said, raise the child in a loving home....yours. While I think it is best for a child to be raised by a bio intact family, I would only worry about the child's best interest.

Next, my views on adoption are pretty well known here. I recently had a foster adopt child and as a few here know, I am hoping to have a foster adopt brother/sister added to my home. The parents are unfit...much in the way that you have portrayed the woman in your H's situation...so, a good home needs to be had.

Any more questions?
See, i put my money where my mouth is...how about you?

THANK YOU meremortal!!!

I never said she was unfit. I said the impression we got was that she wanted as much money off of my H as possible for her own gain, not necessarily for her daughters gain. She could be the best mother in the world to that little girl (except for the going drinking with her mates a lot) but that doesn't stop her using her daughter as a pawn in a game to get money and to break up another marriage ... which is what she tried.

The child will have a better upbringing with her Mum if she isn't using her Daughter to be manipulative and just focuses on being a Mum which is what she decided in the end. The child can have a loving upbringing with Mum and StepDad/Dad and when the time is right and she is old enough to not be influenced by her Mother and her games then she can look for her biological father.

Or we could go through the courts, with money we do not have, try and get sole custody, which we will not get unless there is proof the Mother is unfit and if we did get custody, then I, a woman who had her H cheat on her and get another woman pregnant, would be expected to bring up another woman's child ... even though at the moment I am 7 months pregnant myself.

I don't expect everyone to think how things have turned out in my situation is right, because there is no right or wrong in these situations. Except for maybe if the biological Mother and Father can agree to something without the need for courts and the bitterness between them ... which does not happen very often.

But its our decision and has been the right one in our circumstances and someone else spouting how it is wrong and disgusting and you should have done this and you should have done that ... is unhelpful and wont change things.

So in Luis' situation if the OW is pregnant, he and his wife can work through things and they can sort out CS and visitation between them all civilly, then good on them and I would wish them luck.

If that couldn't happen because the OW didn't allow it, then unless the OW was an unfit mother, I do not think it is totally necessary for Luis to be in the child's life except for financial support which will happen anyway.

My biological father was never involved in my upbringing past the age of 1. I have a man who I consider to my Dad and has been since I was 3 and it was best for us.

Luis, the best advice I can give you is to be patient with your wife. She will be having some very bad days in the days and months to come. So will you. It's unavoidable.

Don't rush recovery; it takes time. And it's a rollercoaster of ups and downs.

Listen to what she needs and do as she asks.

PK

you are right...you didn't SAY she was unfit...you just painted the picture with this...



Then you said these this which makes me scratch my head espcially considering the last senetence above...."What a lovely life this child has to look forward to?"



I'm sorry...but the best moms in the world are not out drinking often and using their kids as pawns. Are you confused about that? These things would be mutually exclusive. If you do these behaviors...you can't be a good mother. Simple enough math to me.

Do you know that there is a father figure in Luis's situation? Is the OW married? I don't think so...that point was made early on...so, Luis has a responsibility beyond his paycheck even if you don't think it is important for Luis to be involved.

Luis, I do see a pattern in you that reminds me of my WXH. And other posters have noticed this pattern too:

"I'm sceptical, frankly, about the religious explanation - you don't come across as a person of mature spirituality in any of your other actions or statements, so that sounds like baloney to me. What does your religion feel about adultery?" (TogetherAlone)

Most likely if you had been using the beliefs of your religious upbringing the adultery would have never taken place. It's intellectually dishonest to turn to a previously ignored belief system only if it serves you in some selfish, irresponsible way after you've gotten yourself in a mess. Does the same religion you claim excuses the destruction of an innocent baby call for the death penalty for adultery?

You seem to expect an instant solution, from others, to the situation you created. It's as if some of the people involved are supposed to just pretend they never existed (the OW, the unborn baby) while others are supposed to pretend it never happened (your betrayed wife). And a previously ignored set of religious rules is suddenly dug up in order to justify the killing of the most innocent one in the situation (as some sort of sacrificial scapegoat?)

I feel you should be warned that this is not going to be resolved quickly or comfortably.

I do want to give you some credit, you did come her after all and have taken some steps in the right direction. The tendency to want it all to be over quickly and/or to somehow pretend it never happened is a very common WS goal. Please do not put any pressure on your BW to pretend she's over it before she really does feel safe and happy again. I suspect maybe that's part of the motive behind your big shows of emotion, regret, panic? Maybe you're hoping that if your reactions to your wife's grief is SO DRAMATIC she will see how much SHE is upsetting YOU by not just 'getting over it' right away? I can tell you from experience it ain't gonna work that way dude.

So stop your sobbing and wipe your eyes, calm down about the OW trying to stalk you (just block it, report it, then ignore it), stop whining in front of your wife about how all this has affected YOU, and how YOU NEED her to be better ASAP, man up and get busy with recovery.

Again, that book 'Wild at Heart' would be really helpful right about now. I'd never read a better clarifification of what a man is REALLY looking for from a woman and vice versa. Your wife needs you to be her hero right now - she should not be expected to be your comforter because you're scared of the OW stalking or afraid of the consequences of the adultery you chose. CALMLY assuring your wife that you will do all it takes to heal the hurt and restore the trust, AND that you won't rush her is what you need to do. IMHO all the emotion you're displaying is an attempt to get your wife to basically forgive/forget before she's ready to, so you won't have to deal with the consequences of the adultery. However that will force her to try to have to deal with it all ALONE. A hero doesn't do that, man. Now more than ever your wife is watching and listening to see if you are man enough to properly deal with this mess you've created.

Didn't you say something about seeing your wife as more like a mother figure and the OW as adventure (paraphrasing - don't even know for certain if I'm confusing you with another poster?)? If so, don't you see how you are STILL doing that? The OW is the scary stalker trying to confront you with a baby as a consequence of your adventure with her... while you run home and hide behind your wife (a.k.a. mommy) and cry to her about how badly YOU feel about what you've done. Well your mommy can't fix this mess and neither will your wife. YOU have to man up and fix it FOR your wife or you will lose her. And it's going to take AT LEAST as much time to fix as it took to break so stop whining and just accept that fact.

My point being, the little girls upbringing could well be worse having my H involved whilst the OW is still using her to get more and more money out of my H. It may well be worse for her being dragged between two families than being brought up in one loving family, with no courts involved. So in fact if my H isn't involved in her life at this point, she could be better off than if he was. Not to mention what affect it would have on our children as well.



I knew as soon as I clicked post that that would not come out as I meant it. A mother can be loving and caring with their child. Ensure they have all they need for them. But once they are in bed at night, and being looked after by someone else (the OW's parents in our situation) then they can go out drinking all they want without it being detrimental to the child. As long as they are not out for days on end, coming back drunk whilst in care ... which we have no proof of.

And my H not being involved in her upbringing at this moment is not meaning the OC is not being used as a pawn, therefore a better situation for the child than if she was.


No I don't, but there maybe somewhere down the line and for 2 years my Mother brought me up without my father and IMO that was better than being in the volatile situation we would have been if my biological father would have been involved.

Like I said, it depends on the situation.

The first thing Luis needs to do is get proof of this pregnancy, but as he hasn't even come back ...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />