Who said anything about drugs or drinking, or the ties between addiction and exposure? The portion of MY quote above was nothing more than an example of the type of response that would:

1. Inform a person seeking help to question the advice.
2. Inform the Moderators to please review questionable and potentially damaging advice.

I'm completely confused by your comment/question.

Considering the majority on this forum try to assit from a personal experience perspective. IMHO, anyone giving advice that differs from a formally trained DR., would also created the concepts found on this site, is over stepping their boundries.

I have seen advice given, then later be given a different path by the Harley's. The posted immediately backed off their own recommendations, and advised to follow the Harley's cousel.

Justkeeptryin - That is exactly what I have observed and done myself as well.

I'm guessing that in the thread I mentioned the person who kept pushing for them to do more exposure hadn't read all the posts and didn't realize they were contradicting Dr. H's advice. It took him repeating several times that he wanted to stick with the Dr's plan for them to back off telling him he should expose more.

It is interesting that sometimes Dr H does things differently than what people are told on here. He bases his "plan of action" very carefully and based on the individual's particular situation. So, the advice is not one size fits all.

Perfectly stated! All to often, I bite my tongue when I hear someone "qoute" the Harley's advice. Some advice may be generic and useful in the MAJORITY of situations, but certianly not ALL.

Sorry...

I really like and agree with what you wrote. I was just trying to add to it. I didn't mean to say I was confused by what you wrote. I was in a rush.

I'm confused by how some posters (like BA) get picked on for not following MB tenets yet this addiction thing gets overlooked all the time. I worry that some of the "group approved" MB advice given and taken by BS's might be contraindicated under these addiction circumstances--especially with pain killers.

Perhaps not all but in the absence of his wisdom you are left with his general advice and principals. The principals remain the same even if the implementation varies.

There are some factors that are always the same and DO fit all situations.

No Contact with affair partners
Meeting EN's
Avoiding LB's
15 Hours undivided attention
Radical Honesty.

Never seen him water any of those down.

FamilyComesFirst,

For clarification.....I NEVER said she MUST be a porn star. I simply asked her if she was because someone else brought it up. I did a google search and there was quite a bit of smut, for lack of a better word, under that name and a porn site under that name. And considering the advice that she has been giving out, I did question her motives. I asked her a direct question. "Do you run a porn site". After avoiding the question at first, I hear she finally replied, "no".

I personally didn't want to be taking advice from someone who may be prostitute. That coupled with some of the advice she's already given........I just wanted to know.

And maybe it would be helpful if you DID read through the posts before you make assumptions, regardless of whether or not there are too many.

MB principles for busting up an affair are standard.

Dr. Harley doesn't indicate you can't break up an affair with MB affair busting techniques because the wayward has a substance abuse problem.

Rather...MB principles regarding marital restoration and affair proofing in general don't work when substance abuse problems persist.

The MB program is MORE than just an affair recovery tool. It is designed to create and restore intimacy in ALL marriages regardless of the circumstances (excluding substance abuse and anger management problems which must be resolved FIRST before love can be restored).

In fact, MB principles are based upon Dr. Harley's experience as a drug and alcohol counselor. They owned many substance abuse clinics in Minnesota (and elsewhere) before selling them and bringing over many of the same techniques for drug treatment to surviving infidelity and relationship issues.

Of course...this is MY opinion and not Dr. Harley's.

Are we to just abandon betrayed spouses that show up here with a alcoholic wayward spouse as in "Sorry, can't help you...MB won't work for you...carry on".

I think this is a baseless argument. Sorry.

Mr. Wondering

BK, I concur... I without having clarified, I've see some advise regarding:

Plan A
Plan B
Or simply "If a M can or should be saved"

Receive some cookie cutter responses I would never dare touch. Other than to ask some questions that might help formulate a decision.

LOL, No worries... See what these boards can do.

I thought you were trying to pick a fight! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You actually went to the trouble to google her name?? Lordy....

************************EDIT**************

FamilyComesFirst,



Yes, I went to the trouble of looking up her name to find out if a prostitute is giving advice on an infidelity forum. It mattered to me. I care. I think it would probably matter to quite a few people here. I was looking out for the members of this board. Not that we could stop a prostitute from posting here, but I'm sure people would like to know if she was. Most prostitutes make money on infidelity.

************************edit**************

Well, thanks 2 both of you for that... Ac2ally, TMCM used 2 post there quite a bit as well. Owl did, 2. And I have come across some real thinkers there as well - whichwayisup comes 2 mind.

In the end, about a week after I asked, the forum owner responded 2 my questions. When I saw the warning notices I'd gotten, I read the responses that came then - perhaps automatically - and I couldn't figure out what I'd said that got someone's ire up. The only thing I can think of that might have triggered me getting reported was that I posted some firm reply 2 an active OW trying 2 advise a recently-dumped BW, who's H was off in Lala land with his OW. But even that might not have been it. Another guy who was trying 2 avoid having an A asked me 2 contact him offline because he hadn't been there long enough 2 be able 2 send private messages - so I posted my email address, but used "dot" and "at" instead of the symbols, 2 avoid adding 2 the spam I already get there. And the owner clearly misinterpreted that as my trying 2 "mask" my addy and get it through the TOS, which apparently prohibits that.

I wouldn't have even known I was on warning if I hadn't tried 2 post something, and got a message saying I'd have 2 wait 24-48 hours for review before it would be posted.

The owner, who's apparently in real estate as a profession, said he hoped I'd continue 2 post, but I just don't feel the desire at this time.

Wish TMCM would come back HERE though, and tell us how he's doing. I miss his insight.

-ol' 2long

I've read your questions.
I have no intention oF defending myself any longer over unfounded allegtions and untruths.

I am so surprisd to even see this thread still here, everyone discussing who and what I am, when it has already been answered.

I am still extremely angry that I was defamed and discussed in such a way and it was allowd to hapPen right here on a site that supposedly wouldn't support that in one's home and family.

MB terms of service were posted way before the nastiness began ****************edit***************

I'm sure the moderators will be shattered that your definition of abuse isn't the same as theirs.

mopey




If you saw that, you also saw where I requested you remove the thread.... this proves you deliberately left the thread in it's original wording to add to any damage on my part for many hours.... YOU are as guilty as the original party!

You chose NOT to alter the wording, meaning or intention of the post in any way, even after I requsted you do so. Rather you KNOWINGLY went to bed and left me to be defamed while you got a good night's sleep!!!




Why apologise then coninue with this way of thinking through out this thread? Apology not accepted because it was NOT sincere in it's intent.

meremortal you said



MM These are your EXACT words to me



This is my EXACT reply to you in my NEXT post