Based on your additional information, I think your instincts are spot on. I think she is embarrassed of you. I think she is a taker. She has no concept of giving. My stepmother was that way. When my dad scrimped and saved to give her a $2000 sewing machine, and he had tears in his eyes because it was such a big sacrifice for him and he expected her to recognize the sacrifice and love him for it, she opened the package and said, "Oh. It's not as good as the one I wanted, but thank you anyway." I saw his heart break that day and finally understood what she was doing to him by taking, taking, taking.

Some people simply don't understand giving. You may have married one.

Without saying much else at this moment, I would heartily recommend you consider the wiser of choices to be to bring this union to a conclusion.

I believe many marriages can be salvaged which , through neglect, poor skills, inadequate knowledge, whatever, have hit the rocks.

I also believe there are others which should never have taken place. Mine was one of these and has concluded after sixteen years. ( A wasteful investment of time and life and only because we had a child ) I knew with certainty after three years, it had lasted two years too long already.

Hopefully, you will not parallel my situation in this respect as did your description of your relationship in so many other aspects.

It almost sounds as if there was something more in the luggage than clothes. Are you sure your wife is not addicted to drugs?

Her erratic behavior and strange attachment to her luggage makes me wonder.

There are children involved, so I do encourage you to do everything you can to make it work out, for your own peace of mind.

That means eliminating LBs, and trying to spend as much as 2 hours a day with her one-on-one, without other distractions, to try and get closer to her.

Have you ever had an opportunity to talk to her ex husband?

Cat,
That's very sad. Do you ever find yourself acting like your mother in any way? I'm just wondering, because often I will catch myself acting like my mother, and it doesn't go over well sometimes.

I may be mistaken but it didn't sound like any of the children are theirs in common. His and hers are from former relationships. If it is determined to be a complete misfit, I don't believe it is in the childrens best interest to sustain the marriage. What is to benefit them to see a marriage which is dysfunctional daily for years to come?

Oh, no. That was my stepmother, who he married when I was 16. We call her the evil witch. She ruined our lives. My H was the only person who ever stood up to her, told her no, so she got a group of her church friends to sign a letter she wrote to CPS, saying he was abusing our D. They threw it out, but in the meantime, the rumor spread until people were calling him a child molester and our D lost all but one friend cos no one would let their kids play with her, and we eventually had to move out of our dream home and I had to quit my dream job (working at NASA) to pay for it. All because my H stood up to this taker woman. Of course, now, I see that if I had been stronger from the start and not put up with her crap (or my H's), none of it would have happened, and I'd still have my dream job, so I utimately blame myself.

Sorry to get off track. I think that drugs might actually make sense, too. But I've known quite a few takers in my life, and they literally have no concern for anyone but themselves. And they typically ruin everyone's lives before people realize what they're doing.

Thanks all, I appreciate your input.

I have no concern about drugs. That is not it at all. I do agree that she never really learned how to interact/fight fairly. I think that her interactions were to ignore. I don't think she ever had anyone who really loved her other than a Grandpa whom she looked up to admirably. He died a couple years ago, and I do think that it hurt her. I wish he was around, because I would go to him and ask him to talk with her. I think that she would have listened to him. Truthfully, I think he would tell her to pull her head out and see what she has in her hands, and what she is going to lose. And I don't mean finances, although that is something which will significantly change.

I just wish she would see that I do love her. And that we could be great together, if she would just engage in our marriage, instead of hope that things will just be good. That is almost what it is like, just ignore things and they will get better. We have not gotten any better. I do not feel I have a partner, lover, friend. I feel like I have a roommate.

At the moment... I am very confused. I know that I have set some boundries on whether our marriage continues. Some might think that they are Ultimatums.... and I guess, in some ways they might be, but I feel they are the boundries I need in order to continue trying. I just don't feel that there has been any significant changes. I don't see anything real changing. I have tried to do everything I can to work on myself to be better in every way I can think of, and while I am certainly not perfect. I finally realized that I cannot do it all myself.

I don't think she really cares about me. I think she loves me, in some way, but not the way I need her to love me. And I don't see that she cares enough to find out what it is I need. I have explained EXACTLY what I need so many times, that I can't continue with the same discussion any longer. And finally, I have realized that she knows... she just chooses not to relate to me how I have asked. I have tried to be the person she needs, but I don't know who that is. I have asked her several times, what she needs from me, and she just doesn't tell me anything.

She has no tenderness for me. She has no admiration at all. She shows me no need that I am around at all. I was sick about a month ago, and couldn't get out of bed. I NEVER stay in bed for ANYTHING. I get up early almost always. She never came in to see if I was OK. My 4 yo daughter at the time, was the only one who came up to check on me, and she came several times that morning, taking care of me. That really hurt me. After I told her that I felt badly about it. She said she had come up, but didn't want to wake me. Truthfully, I don't believe it. She became angry with me, because I was upset. And once again... never said anything remotely like 'I'm Sorry'.

There are so many things in our relationship which could/could have been OK, if she had just shown me that she cared enough to be sorry for hurting my feelings. I know that it might sound trite.... but it is just the fact. I don't have any sense that I mean anything to her. Certainly not enough to TRY...

I feel sad because she won't
- say I'm sorry if I am hurt or sad
- show me she has any sense of what I do as a provider
- take a second to make me the most important thing... for even a minute. I used to try to get her to give me her undivided attention for ONE MINUTE. I would try to just hold/hug her without any outside interuptions/thoughts. She just couldn't do it. ONE MINUTE... 60 SEC. Not worth it...
- take the time to show me in ANY WAY that I deserve something of her time
- do her homework (school) during the day or on her days off rather than wait until I am home, and then disappear to the computer all evening. She is in school, and she goes 2 days a week, but does her homework every night. Our kids are in school all but Friday.
- get a babysitter. I looked, sent her all sorts of information on several babysitters, etc. Since the youngest are her girls, I figured she should have the say in who we chose. She never even called them to see. Just nothing at all.
- Show appreciation for what I give her financially. We had our st wedding anniversary, and I flew us to Carmel CA for several days at a very nice hotel overlooking the ocean. The place was perfect, our room was perfect. It was not cheap. I told her that I wanted her to choose something during our trip out there for her anniversary gift. I couldn't get her to even look. And about a month ago, she said that she was really hurt because I didn't get her a card for our anniversary, nor a gift. ????????????? Then she said, 'Well, I guess you did take me to Carmel. I hadn't thought about that.' WTH !!!!! I have taken her to Napa, SF, Mexico, Bahamas, etc. But I have felt NO appreciation.
- She doesn't think enough about me or our marriage to read a book on preserving/improving our marriage. I have asked her to find something, anything concerning relationships. She says, she doesn't like to read about that stuff.
- she won't go to counseling even though I have asked her several times.
- is quick to point out faults rather than good things. We went to my Practice Christmas party tonight. I bought a new jacket, and when I was putting it on, she said "Where is your black one. That one just looks like you should be wearing jeans." When I was hesitant, because I happened to like the new one, she said, 'Never mind, I am going down stairs.' It is like this alot, When I don't do what she says, or take her advice completely or immediately, she seems to think that I don't value what she has to say, and that I never listen to her and don't want to hear what she has to say. The truth is I very much value her opinion. But I want it LOVINGLY told to me. Had she cuddled up to me and said something like, "I like that jacket, but you know what I think would look really good on you tonight. Your black jacket. I love that one on you." I would have walked into the closet, and taken it out, and worn it. But, she wasn't telling me lovingly, she was telling me to get her way.
- not allow me to have an opinion, and voice it. She seems to feel that anything I say, is ordering people around. For instance, off the cuff, she said she wanted to hang some curtains in the doorway of the girls room. I simply said that I didn't think it was a good idea, because they are wild players, and a compression rod wouldn't hold up for more than a few minutes. I said this just like you would if you were just saying it as an opinion. Not as the boss, or ordering, or anything. Just like if you said I like a blue car instead of a red one. She said, "Well, then we just won't do it, becaus Daddy says so." in a real derisive tone, right in front of the girls. I became angry and said, " I did not say that, and I have the right to give an opinion." and walked out. She never said anything more about it. I tried to bring it up later, she just became angry.
- she cares nothing about my desire for her sexually. She has not put ANY EFFORT into fulfilling that need since we were married. And... for me, that is a big need. Someone posted a couple links to a couple Christian sites concerning sex, and they almost made me cry, because it is EXACTLY how I feel about sex. For me, it isn't just an act... like bonking in highschool. It is where I feel that I am actually cared about. Just me, only me.
- The laundry is cleaned, because the girls have to have clean clothes, and leaving mine would just look bad. Supper is cooked because the girls must eat, and therefore, I get some as well. Given a difference in desire for supper between me and our 5 year old... I would NEVER get my wish on what we had for supper. I am so far below everything else on her list of 'Things that are important to me' I am truly not sure I am even on it. Certainly not in the top 10, which breaks my heart. I told her that I felt that way about a month ago... and got no response. It was almost like when I said it she was like... hmmmm.... you know you're right. At least that is how I felt in that situation.

- I am just not important in her life. If I were not here, I don't think she would notice, except that the fireplace wouldn't be burning. I certainly don't think that I would be missed.

- I just need to feel like I matter. I don't need much really. I would love for her to just act like she cared. I have co-workers who seem to care personally about me, FAR MORE than she does in every way.


I have realized that alot of my issue is that my hopes are never realized in almost any way. And it causes even more hurtful feelings. It began on our honeymoon, with the thoughts of a wedding night and honeymoon of love making. Really feeling like I was important, and in so, she would show me just how important I was by making love to me alot because she KNEW how important it was for my feelings of love. Maybe even putting a bit more than she really wished, or being a bit more explorative, because she really wanted to show me she cared. IN REALITY, I think she did show me how much she cared... and it just breaks my heart to perhaps finally realize it. I thought she must just not understand... but after the same thinkg occurring over and over and over again, I recently realized that perhaps... it is just that simple. The world is filled with women who are not making love to me... the reason is because they don't care about me. They have no interest in showing me they love me. They feel no responsibility as a wife. Unfortunately, it seems that there is no difference with my wife.

I don't really know where to go from here. As I stated in my original post, I told her that for me to feel that we can continue our marraige, I needed her to begin counseling, find us an Intensive Marriage Counseling type weekend, and to set up specific time each week for us to talk about how things are going.

That was about 2 weeks ago now and I have heard nothing at all. She is acting nice. She is interactive, smiling, etc. She will give me a kiss rarely, but still once or twice a day. I try to remain involved, I ensure I tell her goodbye and give her a kiss. I try to ensure that I am giving her about the same level etc, of affection in return, and it feels as though I am holding back about 95% of what I want to be like. But, in order for me to return to my usual 'invested self' into my marriage, I have to feel that she is going to engage in our marriage as well. Otherwise, quite truthfully, I don't want to become involved. I have done it over and over again, and been hurt each time, because 2 weeks of relatively good relations comes to a crash, becausee in reality, it was all window dressing.

So I have finally reached the point where I can hold WAY back, and still be around her in a nice way. I can interact on a much more 'friend' level. Courteous, kind, etc. But not loving, certainly not IN LOVE-like. It is not an acceptable way for me to maintain.

I don't know what to do, without these things being met, I will most likely proceed with divorce filing in mid January. I don't know whether I should say anything... I don't really think I should. She MUST be invested in our marriage... she MUST care enough to say something... otherwise, I can't continue. I would have hoped that if she wanted to remain married, that she would have told me something about her at least looking for a weekend, or counselor, or asked to talk with me. But.... she has found Hanna Montana tickets instead.....................

I read something recently that may be food for thought. I read that our personal pain does not motivate our spouse to change. It is their pain that motivates them to change. Your W seems to have a lot of bad habits that are in truth hard to break. (I know, because I share one of them - the apology bit, and I'm working hard to break this nasty cycle.)

She needs to rewire her thinking, but your telling her how she is hurting you isn't motivating her to do the hard work necessary for real change. Maybe it is time for a change in approach. I've recently tried this with my H regarding our marital problem, and it seemed to work...at least as of now.

When I first read this, I thought it was saying I needed to LB or disrespect in a just plain mean way to "make it hurt," but someone pointed out that it is as easy as using cause and effect statements. What do you think?

I also think however, that she really wants to be happy. To be married happily. To love me. At least I want to believe that she does.

It is just like she doesn't have the skills... and for some unknown reason, has a phobia about learning.

I am EXACTLY the opposite... and it is this disconnect which causes me even more pain. I want it, will do anything for it, and if I am NOT doing it... I will do whatever I can to learn it and do it not only as good as needed, but better. If I KNEW of something she needed from me, I would be trying to give it to her more and more. I give her massages, but actually it is harder and harder... because I am rubbing her beautiful body, and all I can think is that 'its not for me'. She loves massages, but it has gotten to the point that it feels badly for ME to give them.

I have tried to help her understand what I need, I even bought us a book 52 great nights of love or something. I did the first night, massage and love making. She 'allowed' me to have sex with her, at least that is how it felt with as little interaction as necessary. We agreed that we would each take every other week, and be responsible for them. I think, that although she agreed, she didn't want to... because the book has sat in the drawer for 2 months and nothing has happened. Some might ask why I haven't continued despite her choosing not to. Well, you see... it hurts too much to know that I am just not important enough to warrant her putting 30 minutes interest in me a week. It is not just about the sex... it is about feeling important, loved, and cared for. When your wife doesn't put that effort into you, there just isnt' much left. And it is just so far out of my understanding, I don't know what to do. My counselor (our marriage counselor for a while until she quit going) is at a loss.

January is going to get here... and I just don't know what to think. I FEAR that she will make some overture about sex, and truthfully, I don't want to. Not because I don't WANT TO, but because I don't want to get sucked back into those feelings when I don't believe there will be any changes. I doubt that will be the case, but I do worry every once in a while (probably futily)that she will do something I want her to do. But NOT do the things I have asked her to do to for me to feel that there is a chance that something will change in our marriage.

What do I do, if something breaks, and she wants to make love but has done NOTHING about the things I have requested? I have certainly thought about it, and about decided that I will just tell her exactly how I feel. Although I want nothing more... I don't want it until I feel that there will actually be a future. I am sure it will just cause a fight. I won't fight, but she will be angry. I guarantee she won't feel sad or say she is sorry that I feel this way.

I don't think this will ever change without a fundamental change requiring counseling, perhaps medication, intenssive Marriage counseling, and set time to address all of this every week.

I look at the world, and unfortunately in my mind, I think... WHY wouldn't you want to try these things? WHAT WOMAN WOULDN"T want to be married to me? (I know that is self centered, but what I mean by that is that I am decent looking, a hard worker, financially set, loving, kind, love OTHER kids as well as my own, artistic, and a cowboy." I would think someone would want to be with me... why not the one I have... I really am not as narcissistic as this sounds. It is just that I can't figure out what is so bad about me that I wouldn't be worth working for...

INT, you describe in great detail how you give your wife control of your happiness. I encourage you to read the Basic Concepts, and see how by doing a few things a little differntly, you would empower yourself to feel very much happier in your marriage pretty much immediately. If you are happy, you will see how it changes your wife's experience almst immediately, and be surprised at how she will begin meeting needs for you, especially if you follow the Thoughtful Request and negotiating processes

The withdrawal that you describe yourself in is very close to the 180 technique, and has great success in giving the other spouse "space" in order to reinvest in meeting your needs again. But this trial and error is kind of dangerous if your cut off is mid-January.

You don't sound like you've read the Basic Concepts yet. What's stopping you?

Doesn't help the problem much, but you can compartmentalize sex from your other issues. You can see it as a human need, for the time being, in your head and realize that what you're getting is a temporary thing, and you'll look at getting the real stuff later down the road.

She sounds like she may have severe self esteem or self hate issues, in that she hates who she is, is terrified that someone else (you) will find out the ugly truth and then she'll be exposed. You'd be surprised how many people feel this way. They often sabotage what they have, figuring that once the other person finds out more about her, they'll leave in disgust. So you are doing exactly what she figured you'd do - leave.

You're depressed right now, and rightly so, but I suggest you table the leaving idea for now, and work on finding a different way to get to her. Are you seeing a C? You should be going, by yourself, so the C can help you solve this problem.

Of course, it's entirely possible she just married you for security, and the minute she got the ring, she just quit pretending to be the person you thought she is.

But I'd bet on the first one. Either that, or she really does have a severe medical condition. I've been messed up my whole life, and I learned early on to just not feel. My H sensed it early on, and kept hounding me to make sure I really loved him. But the truth is, I've had a wall up for so long that I'm not sure I did. I just went through the motions. I suppose if I wasn't so afraid of confrontation, I might have acted the same way your W does. I'd have important moments in life, and I'd look at myself and think, why aren't you happy? Why aren't you feeling anything about this? It was all because I was afraid people would find out I'm unloveable, so I just didn't let myself get invested, I guess.

Ears... I have read them and tried to employ the basic concepts. I even explained the thought of Love Bank etc during a talk at one point. I don't know if she listened at all. I gave her Harley's books, they were never opened as far as I know, and certainly nothing was implemented from them. I have tried to do the things he recommends, which to me, seem so good and worthwhile. But it is hard... really hard when they seem to have NO EFFECT. When I have tried and tried to be kind, involved etc, we do well for a while, but then something occurs, and we are thrown completely off the track, and just can't get back on. THAT is the problem, things go bad because we have no way of continueing despite the bump in the road. She ignores, won't engage, won't talk about it, etc. Never tries to make a repair jesture. Just give it 3 days, and pretend that whatever it was never happened.

I know she feels badly about things, but it is like she just doesn't have the skill to say 'I'm sorry.' LITERALLY, it is as if her mind does not have the ability to say those two words. She said one time, that she gets frustrated and angry, but that all she really wants to do is just melt in my arms, but for some reason she just can't. She just doesn't know how to break and love, she just puts up the wall higher and higher. The problem with this is that I am forced to climb higher and higher in order to reach her. And then when I get to the top, I get nothing in return. The climb has become less and less worth it.

I would do anything for her. REALLY. But it has become because I have a ring on my finger, not because I feel what I want to feel. I am old fashioned I guess, in that I have responsibilities to my family which are concrete and steadfast. Those things can't change for me. But, it has become such an ordeal just to LOVE her, and I get no feelings of LOVE in return.

It seems so simple to me, ... the things she could do to completely make me feel loved. Hug me... kiss me... show me some respect... make love to me... make me more important than the kids every once in a while. I don't need more of ANYTHING from her other than what SHE CAN ONLY GIVE me. I can do the dishes and cook supper, I can do the laundry, clean the house, get the kids to school and events. What I can't do is make myself feel loved.

Tired and on the verge....It is time for you to cut and run.
Because you don't have enough life to repair what makes her tick the way she does. You must realize before you have invested any more time in this relationship that some unions were never meant to be.

Catperson said- "Of course, it's entirely possible she just married you for security, and the minute she got the ring, she just quit pretending to be the person you thought she is."

It is ENTIRELY possible. And ,therefore, she will not give you the love you definitely need and deserve in the marriage. I had sixteen years in such a marriage. Your description of your situation parallels what I lived with almost to the letter. Don't make the mistake I did by waiting sixteen years for the conclusion of what never should have been begun. She found another at her work and the games began. The lies, the deception, the rewrite of history, the selective memory, etc.

You have said enough for me to say to you...now is the time to pull the plug. You can't heal her. You won't be able to 'make' her love you the way you need her to love you. It just isn't worthwhile to spend years trying to be her therapist when you married her to be your lover and companion. She doesn't appear to have even the rudimentary tools for the demanding responsibility of being a marriage partner. And you can't love her enough, you can't do enough, you can't remind her enough of how you love her and what you do for her, to make a difference. She is apparently damaged beyond your responsibilty and ability to make any significant difference such that you could have the marriage with her which you intended. Don't waste any more of your life. That is my recommendation to you.

We went out today with the girls for the Hanna Montana concert. It was fun and we actually had a great time. We ate before hand, and she actually complimented me on how I looked. When she got up to go to the bathroom, she even walked by and gave me a kiss, and told me thanks and she loved me. We all went to the concert, and we sat together, and she repeatedly leaned over and put her head on my shoulder and held my hand, at her initiative. I loved back, gently and not to much extra, but a good amount to reinforce that this was EXACTLY and ALL that I need.

After we got home, she was in a great mood and playful, and we goofed with the girls for a bit, I put up the tree and she made cookies. She came over and hugged me at least a half dozen times. Which was wonderful. We put the girls to bed and she was playing with me, and jumped on my back for a piggy back ride.

THIS IS WHAT I HAVE CRAVED !!!! I love this action today, and it is what I want more than anything. A LOVING relationship, in which she initiates a bit of loving towards me. I had a hard time not pushing things further, but I was able to keep myself in check, because as before, I don't want to get pulled into a momentary lull of fun. We have done this so many times, where we will have trouble, then things will bounce back and we will be great, only to fall off a cliff a week or so later for whatever reason. I know that life and certainly marriage is not perfect. I just don't want the bumps to completely knock us off the cliff all the time. I want to be able to just work through them in an evening or couple hours or dare I say, minutes in a conversation, and still be in love.

I am a bit worried about tonight to tell you the truth, she is in a mood which might lead to love making, and again, I am still torn between what I should do. While I don't want to derail our good day, I also don't her to think that everything is OK, and we don't have anything to work on. I want her to become engaged in our relationship, and give me the hope that we have a future. Again, the only way at the moment which I can see that future, is if we have an intensive weekend like MB weekend, she begins counseling, and we have a scheduled time for safe, relationship discussion. Otherwise, I know that when a bump occurs in a week or two... we will be flying off the cliff once again, and I don't think I can stand landing any longer.

When she is happy and interactive like tonight, she is the woman I fell in love with. I think that she wants us to be good together like today, but once again, she just doesn't seem to be willing to put in the time to help HER part of US continue this way. That is what frustrates me to no end.

Sounds like good progress. Sometimes all that is needed is for communication. You feel like she is a robot and not feeling, but she may just be really good at internalizing because she doesn't feel safe to let you know who she really is. I think Hoti's wife is another such case.

By putting it all out on the table, you may have given her the safety net she needs, in knowing how invested in her you are; thus the renewed affection, etc.

I really think the secret no one talks about is that nearly each and every one of us is a little bit wounded; how we react to that wounding, and how much we let the world know about, determines how we are perceived. Even people who seem cold, unloving, brisk, even mean, are often really just people with bigger fears than ours. The trick is in figuring out how to let them know they are safe. Maybe you have found the combination to open that fear inside her, and better days are ahead.

You also have a lot of resentment toward her, whether you recognize it or not. The key to MB, from what I've deduced, is to let go of that resentment and make YOUR move toward being a better spouse so that they feel safe to reciprocate. I know it's made a HUGE difference in my marriage. Sounds like you may have made some baby steps in that area and are now seeing results.

I genuinely hope this moment you have had is multiplied many times over.Catperson has made a suggestion in her last paragraph which may be what is needed. It's early yet and worth the try.However, you alone know the pattern of how it progresses and your conclusion may be most accurate.I agree with your assessment. You need the help now in the early stages of the marriage. Otherwise, I fear it will one day become irreparable. Don't procrastinate. Truthfully, I don't feel the optimism my words above suggest. I see you riding a roller coaster that ceases to be enjoyable.

"She's a piece of work."


Believe it. Others see it why don't you? She disparages you, uses you for money for material things, is abusive and is totally non supportive. She seems not to care for you as a person, a man, and her husband.


Does love really have anything to do with why she married you?

Do you want this the rest of your life.

My sister is this way to her husband and he is so beaten down by her he wont look anyone in the eye. There are moments when my sister can appear to be "nice". Then, she quickly turns on you.

Good luck with this loon you married. Your life with her will be full of heartache and walking on eggshells since she feels like she does nothing wrong.

If you can communicate with her, try it. In 100 different ways.

Despite my last post, I lean much more toward what you see in this relationship. I don't believe it has the raw material necessary to make it a green and growing marriage.
My former wife ,too, could have a 'good' day or part of a day and then, just like Chicago weather, do an about face and become the vilest, nastiest person you'd ever want to meet. And there was no apparent cause for the abrupt change.
It simply occured. It is painful for me to read his last post because my gut feeling is that it is going to be one of those exceptions to the rule that serves only to set him up to become vulnerable to the next assault.

In my case, she would tear my heart from my chest, throw it to the ground and stomp on it, ignor me for two or three days and then start talking to me as if nothing had transpired. Again and again this would happen. My affection toward her was being eroded away a little more with each occurrence.Then,after becoming involved with another man at her work, she told me one day, "I am so finished with you". (Her exact words) Why? Because I was 'cold'.

Long story short, I should have followed my instincts at the beginning and terminated the marriage. The way it was progressing was not why I married her. Simply, she was too damaged to be a good companion.

I feel quite strongly that he will find the times like he last describes will be few and far between. I could be mistaken but I don't think I am. To be married so short a time as he has been and to have gone through what he has seems a pretty good indication that something vital was missing at the outset. Like ,for example, her truely loving him and taking her vows seriously.

May he not have to spend the years I did to realize life is too short to waste in a illconceived marital union. And his marriage ,as he decribed it here, is remarkably parallel to what mine was like. And there isn't enough money in the world to entice me to spend another sixteen years like the recent last sixteen. This is absolute fact.

Stella/ICH - It isn't that I can't see what we are like together. It isn't that I don't see more and more the disparate actions versus hopes and desires. I can see those things fine. But I truly do love her, and don't want to terminate our marriage without really trying everything I can in order to find a good marriage with her. I married her because I loved her. I have experienced, as ICH stated, and erosion of my love over time.

I feel that I have made strides in understanding our relationship as it pertains to my expectations and desires in conjunction with her willingness to engage in our marriage in a way to meet my needs. I also believe that she has the ability to feel wonderfully in our marriage. However, I believe that she has such a protective wall around her, that she just can't allow herself to be vulnerable and try something different. It is a foreign concept to me, to be so steadfast and scared as to be afraid to just say "I am sorry".

In my heart, I believe that if she would be able to discuss these things with a counselor and open up to some books on marriage and the needs of spouses AS WELL AS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ME TO HER and her needs... she would understand that being married and having a loving partner is not as dangerous as she appears to think it is and that in fact, I will protect her from the world. I think she has never had anyone feel that way about her, and she has been so self-reliant her whole life, that she cannot put any trust into me. The Catch 22 is that, by so doing, refusing to allow me in and refusing to become vulnerable and meet my needs, she is setting up her own belief. I think that she has always feared I would leave her, and maybe that is why as soon as she had something to lose, she refused to invest herself. That is the contradiction I find so difficult to comprehend. In my world, if I have something to lose, I do everything I can to work harder, so I don't lose it. She tends to withdraw, more of like trying to minimize the loss rather than prevent it in the first place.

She simply doesn't see that by investing in me and our marriage, she would have no fear of losing anything. It seems like she just plans and escape route, and lives her life within her evacuation plan. Not wanting to pull the release cord, but unable to let it go. Fearing that I am going to pull it before her.

I love her, I really do. I am extremely hesitant to do anything. I told her a month or so ago, that I would do anything to maintain our marriage except NOTHING. I would not continue to do the same NOTHING that we have been doing. I told her that if she wanted to be married, that she would have to choose something for us to do. Nothing... no further information or trying. Subsequently, a couple weeks ago, I told her that in order for me to feel that we had a future, she had to do a few things to engage in our marriage, and if these were not acceptable or too difficult, that she just had to tell me and it was OK. If we didn't do those things, however, that I would file for divorce in mid January. Still nothing, although her interactions with me have improved, and she has told me she loves me a few times VERY recently.

The disconnect is why I came here in the first place. Saying "I love you" at one moment, but NOT addressing the things I specifically stated needed to be addressed. What does that mean? Does the think that if she is just better, I won't do what I said? Does she think what I told her doesn't matter? Does she think I am not serious? She obviously has no reason to say 'I love you' at this point unless she does really love me. But why, if she really does love me, does she IGNORE the things I have asked of her to continue our marriage? Why wouldn't she go to counseling? Set up a weekend? Come to me and talk to me about us? Why the disconnect?

Either say "I love you and here is what I have found so far." or just quit saying I love you, be courteous, and we can come to a close in a month.