She is ambitious. I think I believe in her abilities even more than she does in herself. I try to relay that as often as I can.

I understand it is difficult practicing the MB stuff without your S participating. That's what I've been doing. And it has made a huge difference!!!

...once I started applying them CORRECTLY. Not pseudo. Not my first guess at what they are. Rather, what I learned from posting here, giving details, and hearing what people had to say.

It wasn't immediate. I'm a slow learner. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Again: what made a difference in my marriage was ME applying the things I learned... NOT trying to get H to TALK about the things here.


From how you describe her FOO, she hasn't learned to deal with conflict by talking about it. That isn't what makes her comfortable.

I get that you want to deal with problems by talking about them. I get that, I really do. I'm the same way. But it doesn't work with my H and it isn't working with your W. Maybe they will learn such behavior eventually. Or maybe, this is just part of their personality. If we love them, and this is just them preferring to not talk (it isn't abusive), then shouldn't we accept their personality instead of telling them they are "wrong"?


E_O's drive-by H&O involves you stating your H&O, then walking on by... not waiting for her to speak. Don't pressure her to respond. If you want to tell her something, do so. Without expectations of a response. You already know that makes her uncomfortable.

She may be able to hear your message better if she doesn't feel an uncomfortable pressure to respond. She may feel less defensive, less attacked, if you just state your own opinion, acknowledging hers may be different, and then go on by.

The other stuff you describe, sounds to me like she is insecure. That does make it very difficult to raise issues without having your S feel attacked. There are several women here dealing with this issue with their Hs. Maybe you can get some ideas from their threads.

BTW I do see myself in some of the things you describe. Once I dated someone from a family up north with more money than mine - I also made a lot of negative comments about yankees and exclusive country clubs and stuff. I like to think I'm better now. Your W may get better too.

When she starts to say something and then stops herself... that's her FOO issues, maybe some fear and insecurity also. She has learned that the response is to stuff things inside, and pretend they don't exist. You want to promote her feeling safe enough around you to open up. That takes patience.

What is it you absolutely need to tell her right now? Could it wait until after you guys have laid down some happy holiday memories, after you have better lovebank balances? If it can't wait, would you like to come here and work out a way of saying it that would be good negotiation, or good drive-by H&O?

I like your decision to post some good qualities about her. That can potentially make a huge difference.

I'm not discrediting your take on things, by any means. I'm trying to get a more complete picture, as well as give a hypothetical insight as to what your W may be thinking. If I can give you insight, if this reaches out, you might be able to relate to her POV, maybe you can have some compassion for her and find for yourself more strength to work on the relationship.

Was she like this before you married? And it seems that often relationship talks are b/c the initiating spouse is unhappy about something... So could you give a real world example of the rest of that "I feel..." sentence? I'm wondering if you are disguising a demand under a "feeling" statement, which might explain her shutting down and refusal to engage in what she perceives as an argument...

Did you consider using a different counselor? It might be she didn't relate well to this one's methods...

Did you ever try saying," I'm getting a vibe that you are unhappy about something. I'm here if you would like to share that with me." And let it go. If she talks, she talks. And you may or may not know: don't cut her off or say anything until she is done. Then respond by repeating what she said, so you can verify you understood what she is saying: "Would it be accurate for me to say you are unhappy with having to discipline the boys when I'm here. You want me to be more proactive when parenting." And from there perhaps you could empathize with what she is saying and then ask for suggestions or offer some and ask which she would prefer... So she doesn't like the room arrangements... What does she think is equitable? What do the kids think is equitable? Would anyone object to a 3 month change with the option, if not EVERYONE is content, to revert back to before? Is there a creative way to give the girls their own private space in the same room (a divider), making living space in a basement/attic, or a special corner of the house tailered to one of the girls likes? Same with the house... It sounds like she doesn't like where you live... Would she be happier living elsewhere? Would that be a dealbreaker or would you, for the sake of your M, be willing to move? This just seems a lack of negotiating... She might feel as if she had no say in the arrangements, and that might give over to feelings of second-class citizen. If it took an argument to get a simple room change for your step-daughters to get a sufficient room, well, it might make your W reluctant to ask for any further changes in status quo. I'm actually surprised it wasn't until after moving in before the girls got (to share) the bigger room. Why aren't these arrangements being settled as a family beforehand?


And your boundary is...? That is passive aggressive on her part. You shouldn't be around her if she's going to be like that. Take the kids out. Read in your room. Go out with your friends. Do anything but allow her sulking to affect you. Don't try to engage the sulker. It isn't your job to "make" her happy.

Just to be sure, you do agree sometimes, right?

Was this the house you picked out with your first wife?

Settle this dispute. Go house shopping. Let her see for herself the disparities in the available houses and the cost, especially in today's market. Encourage this (nicely) so she can feel it was part her decision for the family to stay in this house.

What do you think?

After reading your lengthy thread, I realize that speaking in absolutes would be ignorant on my part--but based upon the information provided it appears that you are stuck in a self-perpetuating cycle.

She: Waiting for the other shoe to drop--acting in a manner that makes the outcome reasonably foreseeable--ergo predictable results. This is a reassuring pattern for her, but it is a fear-based strategy probably learned in childhood.

You: Expecting needs to be met--constantly disappointed-growing ever more resentful--questioning whether you want to remain married.

A predictable cycle.

You say that you are clueless about what her needs are. Reading here, I would venture that her needs are not so obscure. She has a need for unconditional love. Perhaps her thinking is similar to the following: When I withhold all, will he still love me--more pointedly--How could he still love me b/c I am unlovable? She desires a predictable outcome-albeit a dysfunctional one. You often write about your desire for her to surprise you, yet the challenge is can you surprise her(?), by loving (at least for the interim) unconditionally. She has no faith or trust that it is possible. Your resentment validates her premise.

What you fail to see is that she is not per se rejecting you, but has deep ingrained fear. These are reactionary instincts-- almost animalistic and sadly, I surmise are rooted in abuse.

Your hope lies in that you can control your reactions to her patterns. You can let resentment contribute to the dissolution of your marriage or you can recognize her patterns for what they are. She very well may be a diamond in the rough. I certainly can’t discern that--only you are in a position to. You do though have the opportunity to make this a great holiday season. Let go of your resentment-stop w/ the heavy conversations and expectations to have needs met. Recognize that you have a family, a wife who is faithful and while this may sound trite--count your blessings. Go easy on both of you, lighten up your environment, and find some peace.

--Brix

Thank you all for posting your thoughts. They are quite helpful in trying to understand my own thoughts as well as helps give me a bit of different thought about what she might be feeling. This is EXACTLY why I posted so much and so often. I really feel that it is a disconnect in us both which causes our issues. And sometimes the simple fact of rereading my words on an issue is extremely helpful. Add to that, your thoughts and insights concerning what she might be feeling, and I feel hope and love more and more.

I really do love her. Her goofy grin, her wild eyes. Snorting when she laughs. I really want to be married to her in a happy and mutually enjoyable way.

I realize that over the past few months with my relative withdrawl from her in an effort to protect myself, that I have been taking my marriage away from myself. I realize that I have been putting up chips everytime she doesn't meet some need of mine, but then, I also realize that looking at me recently... I probably wouldn't have either. I grounded my thinking in the factual knowledge that "I wasn't like this before... and she treated me the same. So her doing this with me like this doesn't mean I have changed... it means she is the same." I recognize that fact, and truthfully, I am ashamed. I think more of myself than to allow that to be the man in the mirror. I am better than that, and I will pass it off as temporary insanity... Just to save face.

I know that my points are valid, my pain is valid, my needs are valid, and my desires are valid. I know also, that she is a good woman and I believe wants to be a 'good wife' to me. She probably feels as though Me... being ME... that I just can't be happy with anything less than what she believes my 'perfect' wife would be like. However, it isn't perfection that I seek. It is my wife... with all her quirks and wackadoodle thoughts whom I want.

I think that has been the most difficult part of it all. The knowledge deep within myself that I HAVE what I want... if she would just be willing to give it to me. I have held resentment almost like a standard bearer dating back to our wedding night. I have in essence felt "DUE" because I have not gotten what I wanted thus far. It wasn't meant to be that way... I didn't consciously notice that pattern. But I do know that whenever I wasn't able to make love to her, it was like heaping fuel on a fire lit that night. The truth is... making love to her was like my own drug. I felt SO MUCH BETTER if we were making love somewhat often... I wanted it more... I wanted to feel close... to feel important... to feel needed.... to feel desired. When that didn't happen... not only did I NOT feel those things... but I felt the withdrawal FROM them. And that HEAPED the fuel even higher.

I came home tonight... she was just getting ready to make supper. I held her, and kissed her. I actually 'KISSED' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> her... for the first time in probably months. My daughter was running around trying to get attention... she didn't give it to her. I bumped her sexy little glasses a bit, pushing on her eye... she still kissed me. I know she was confused... I know she was holding back. But none-the-less... I planted the first seed. It was very nice. For just a few seconds... I felt important to her.

I am going full on Plan A... I am going to do everything I can to be the best man I can be. I have slid... no doubt about it, from the 'stud' she dated. Far enough, that I don't recognize whom I have become. I will push back to that man who whirled her around in the parking lot. Hopefully, she will melt again, like she did that first kiss. I will do everything I can to make it happen and hope. If I am unsuccessful in being the person she feels desire for and we are unable to meet each others needs... at least I will have gone down with my head held high and my shoulders square.

No more excuses... It isn't anyone elses fault nor responsibility to make me the man I am now, was before, or will be in the future. If my marriage doesn't make it, I will be at a minimum be better because I was here. My downfall with be hopes, desires, and the dreaded 'expectations'. So I charge you all with a very special request. I am going to try posting on here alot. I will try to be as honest and 'truthful' (my view of course) that I can be. When I seem to be questioning something because of unmet expectations... please pound on my head. My downfall with be hopes, desires, and the dreaded 'expectations'. I can guarantee I will NOT be perfect. I can guarantee I will be a bone head at times. I cannot guarantee I will be able to continue for long but I can guarantee that I am going to try before I am done...

Who knows... I would love a re-do on our honeymoon.

Dang! I think I heard trumpets.

Outstanding Soliloquy !

A definite flair for dramatic exposition.

AWESOME!!!

I know you won't be perfect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But I think you just turned a corner here. Great attitude!

Keep posting and learning. Make sure you really understand the negotiating skills, and the principles of protection etc. Try to have at least 15 hours a week of enjoyable undivided attention. This is great. Great homecoming.

Someday, send us a postcard from your second honeymoon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Go back to your room now, you have bothered those people enough for one day.

And doc, don't neglect YOUR boys or they'll become the next generation to be in a forum like this whimpering about not being hugged enough.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have been reading this entire post for some time, because it sounds alot like my wife in some parts.

But Itcouldhappen. You might have some good thoughts, but you certainly don't have a clue.

First of all, when Ignored said you are a snob, you prove it by pointing out a typo.

Then you insult both his kids and him once again, because he is upset because the person who was suppose to love him, ignores him. You say he is whimpering because he isn't hugged enough. But you, at advanced age have nothing better to do than to cruise these boards, without even having a wife. You are the exact definition of a bully. You have no skin in the game, but you make others miserable, because they have something you don't, but wish you did.

It angers me to read your last few posts, because they are just thoughtless, which hurt me and probably him too, because if I write that my wife ignores me, as his does, am I whimpering too? What are these boards for if not to say that you are hurting and want to find a way out of it.

Allow me to be one more who choses to ignor you.

Um... wow.

Ok, I chose to interpret the "go back to your room now" post as being directed at me, in a good-natured humorous way, in response to my comment about wanting a postcard from INT's 2nd honeymoon. Benefit of the doubt sort of thing.

But I could be wrong. I hope I'm not, but I think I may be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

In any case,
[color:"blue"]INT, please come take your thread back![/color] I for one would like an update so I can cheer you on if it's good news, and if not, well I promise to give my feeble attempt at advice...

And if anything I posted seemed like I was laughing at YOU... well, I wasn't, and I apologize for letting that impression remain for so long.

ps - Hi DD! *wave* I don't know you but I'm not ignoring you!

And ICH, I'm still hearing such pain and bitterness from you... The offer still stands, if you want to start your own thread... Otherwise, I just don't see the reason for targeting INT.

No Jayne, it was not a reference to you.

I developed my perception of INT from his posts over time.
DD misunderstood my remark regarding his boys if he neglected them. It is NOT an insult directed at them. It is an observation of a possible future event if they aren't given the nurturing they need as they grow.

I don't care to expend the time to explain how I developed
my perception which prompted the sarcasm in several of my posts.

In any case, I don't intend to contribute any more postings in these forums.

Finally, for DD's benefit, I would like to clarify an incorrect assumption he made. He assumed that I, not having a wife, wanted to have one. I do not. Not any longer. I am sure he would agree that, having had two, I should conclude that membership in that particular institution is not something I should aspire to obtain.