Very true Mr. W and LaLa...And let's not forget that OM is a co-conspirator with the WW and would many times go right along with becoming "buddies" with the BH...No skin off his back to do this yanno...He'd still be getting what he wanted...blech...

Mrs. W

I haven't disappeared. Just been too busy in plan A to post lately. I read it all, I read Dr Harley SAA, I know NC means NC BUT... What if the whole affair thing is a mountain k?

My WW's A ramped up over 2 months, peaked 4 months into it, and is now coming down. She said herself the other day that they text each other but nothing serious because things are going very awkward with OM.

She tried more than 5 times for NC. 9/20, 9/25, 10/12, 10/28, etc. Each time it was broken was associated with a lot of emotional pain for her, apologies to me for not being strong enough, other realness. She tried, honestly, hard, she wrote 2 NC letters. The last time we changed her cell phone #, blocked his emails from hers, got her on anti depressants, verbal commitments, anything I could think of. I told her to go to her room one night, less than half joking. One time NC was broken as they drove by each other on the f-ing road. Another time NC was broken because he emailed her after 4 days from a new email that wasn't blocked. Another time after she returned all his stuff to his doorstep he called after 5 days and said I am tossing out this stuffed animal and she then requested he deliver it back to her cuz she couldn't take it. Ugh.

She has said she cannot say goodbye but she has said the PA and EA are over with him. She says the "special" connection is there but she knows she does not want him. She wants us and our marriage. Over the past 7 days she has shown me nothing to make me think this is not true. Today she was an absolute joy to be with. Last night I pressed her for honesty, truth and transparency. She is working on that. She says with each additional contact lately she sees more and more how juvenile, selfish, and vain he really is. Today she told me their email exchange consisted of hair mousse advice. And I have her email password. It was true.

Its not that I am just swallowing this happily. I want NC!! Yes I do! I hate this OM. But look at what I have: a commitment, a dying A, my needs finally being met again with gusto, she is accepting all my suggestions for time and UA, EN's, SF, etc, etc. Aren't there a lot of BHs out there that would love my position right now? Let me reemphasize, I will be pressing for NC, and have, and she agrees. She said she sees this fizzeling out just as SAA predicts they all will and as she has read SAA too. Also, OM runs 2 training gyms around town. His ads are on tv, his face is in the paper, his truck is painted obvious. He will always be around town. (Yes I thought about Dr Harley saying move towns even if it means jobs, schools etc.) But its not an option I want either. This way, instead of her getting butterflies each trigger, she just says "whatever", no big deal, no dying to be in his arms.

Dr Harley talks about how immediate NC will leave the AP's at the height of huge love banks with each other thus always leaving the burner on low flame ready to explode with any chance contact. Instead in the road I see going forward my WW and OM candles are burning out. My WW knows OM slept with another woman New Years Eve. She is off the hook. She no longer feels ga ga head over heels. She sees reality of him and me and is choosing me. With all this I feel its improvement from 3 months ago when WW said all the fog speak of typical WWs. But yes I will promote NC any and all chances.

You have just described a GREAT life, well except for that festering, fleshing eating virus that you have, but that doesn't count in your mind, right? BP, listen to us...you are on a path to destruction...I know what you are thinking as you read these posts too...Here is the likely script in your head, "You guys just don't know MY WIFE and OUR RELATIONSHIP...WE are DIFFERENT!" You are not...I dread the day that I read a post with your name on it a few months from now that says, "You all were right...The affair is back on" Thing is, the affair has NOT ended!!! Please save yourself that kind of grief later by understanding this and manning up NOW...NC MUST BE A BOUNDARY FOR YOU...

How long have you been in Plan A? You do understand that Plan B is necessary in about 85% of cases, right?

Mrs. W

OMG bigpicture - you are totally insane.

This is an active affair and YOU are aiding and abeting it.

IF the affair was DEAD, WHY does she have such an issue with NC???????

He11 - you can't even see a postage stamp at the moment, let alone the bigpicture.

I have a bridge I'd like to sell you......

see she is being nice to you so you will go quietly like a good little doormat

[edited for TOS violation]

BP,

There is such a thing as the betrayed spouse being in a fog. Right now you two are on honeymoon status. What happens when your on emotions start to really take hold? What happens when she has a "bad" day? What happens when life treats you two less than perfectly?

Read what YOU wrote and tell me she is recovery. You said

Of course she is happy, she has her cake and eat it too. She has not gone through withdrawal because she has not withdrawn. And please excuse me but if you think talking about hair mousse is innocent you are a fool.

No woman talks to men about hair mousse unless she has OTHER interests and no man does either. He is not her hair dresser is he?

BP, have it your way, but this will destroy your marriage. You know why? Oh she'll probably get back into the affair more completely than now. But, even if it stays as it is, YOUR RESENTMENT at being treated this way will KILL THE MARRIAGE, unless you just get off on pain. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Someone is going to be hurting when this is all done, and it seems your W has determined that it will be YOU. She won't do the hard work, and yes NC is hard on the WS.

Do your children know of her behavior? Have they met the OM? You guys are playing with fire and I know it will be you that gets burned along with your children of course.

But, you would rather risk this and so would your W, than protect them from a divorce or living in a family torn apart by resentment. Yup, it is better NOW than it was, but BP this stuff will eat you alive.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

BP...

I think what you need right now is a shift in perspective...You are NOT in recovery...The affair is NOT over...You are in Plan A...With LOTS of great opportunities to meet her needs-terrific, do that!!! But PLEASE do not fool yourself into thinking that you can be okay with continued contact and for sure don't tell your wife that you are okay with it...there will be nowhere to go but down if you make those fatal errors...

Mrs. W

BP, you are being played for a FOOL. WITH YOUR OWN ASSENT!

Bigpicture, after reading your first post, I wanted to make a couple of observations. You say:


And then you say:


I have to ask you: when was the last time you voluntarily decided to meet someone for lunch whom you disliked and that bugged you?

The answer is probably never. Which leads me to conclude that your wife is very likely not being totally honest when she says:


And the fact that you is a bit of a red flag.


She may have been *saying* the right things - because that's very easy. But doing them? No, not by a long shot. The right thing would be not to see OM again and certainly not meet him occasionally for "lunch". The right thing would be to give you all her passwords voluntarily - not make you ask for them.


I won't call it naivete or stupidity - I will call it magical thinking.

Take care.

PK

played....

Hmmmm... You're right about the danger of the WS maybe saying yes to the let's all three go out to lunch thing...

She might get a horrified look on her face and then some sort of revelation will take place that it really is NOT 'just friendship' if she and the OM prefer to meet without the BH being there...

OR she might exploit the suggestion as a way to continue contact with the OM, pressuring her BH to be further humiliated by being present while she and OM continue their 'friendship'!

And since she seems SO foggy still, SO intent on cake-eating, she probably would go the latter route.

Most of the OW my WXH got involved with were strangers to me, and it was obvious the OW and my WXH wanted to keep it that way. But there was one that was the wife of a close friend/coworker...

Supposedly my WXH and this particular OW 'only' had an EA. During the 'recovery' after they pronounced their 'love' for each other, my WH, the OW, AND the OW's BH (plus another couple we were all friends with) put a lot of pressure on me to just pretend nothing had happened so we could all continue hanging out together! The other two couples lived in the same neighborhood as us and even after I had made it clear I would not continue the friendship with the OW (and therefore also her BH) they just invited themselves over on New Year's Eve! We had guests at our home, who didn't know the story, two other couples. The OW, her BH, and this other couple just stopped over and THEN invited us all to go over to their (OW/BH) house. My WH and one of the couples went, I quickly filled the couple that stayed with me in on what was going on, then we went over to tell my WH to come home and to again inform the OW that her invitation was not welcome.

So, you're right, there is some danger that a WS may call such a bluff, especially if the BS and OP had been friends before D-day.

BigPitcure,

First off, I agree with what many of the other posters are saying.

It sounds like you are adopting a strategy of just waiting out your WW's A. In the interim you will do all the recovery things, and eventually she will choose you over him and you will live happily ever after.

Said another way, you are (or were) in competition with OM for your wife's affection. Three months ago you were losing the battle and now you think you are ahead of him. So, why rock the boat, just maintain your lead, the clock is your friend and eventually time will run out and you'll be the winner. Afterall, you are the better man, and you should win.

Here's my advice. You might want to dig a little into the details of your plan. A couple of points to consider.

Do you think you are no longer in competition with OM for your WW's affection? Whether your WW feels like the OM has a chance to win is irrelevant. He's still competing. As long as there is contact, he has a chance of winning her over. Whether your WW has determined she will not start up with him again is irrelevant. Prior to her A, I imagine she was pretty determined she would never have an A.

Are you really ahead right now? I really think what causes the roller coaster of emotions is all the times the BS incorrectly assumes they have made progress. I see the list of what you say she is now doing, and they are all things that she is willing to do because they don't infringe on her A. The one thing you asked her to do that infringes on her A, she has refused to do. Sounds to me like the A, her relationship, even if she calls it a friendship, with OM is still more important to her, than you are. So, are you really ahead? Have you really made progress?

But let's set that aside and assume you are ahead. Can you really maintain your lead in this environment? Can a man who lets his W carry on with her lover consistently look attractive to her in a sustainable way. First, most of the women who post her say they are not attracted to men they don't respect and most would not respect a man who is okay with them continuing to see their lover. You may say, I'm not okay with it, and she knows that because of what I told her. Most time people listen to what you say, but believe what they see. Stuffing down your outrage about her continuing contact will come accross to her as being okay with it. But let's assume she realizes your not okay with it and respects you. Can you keep stuffing your outrage down. People with periodic angry outbursts aren't very attractive either. Harley mentions that a single love buster can undo many deposits from meeting an emotional need. So can you keep making deposits over and over without any slip ups?

But let's assume you can. Will time eventually run out? Well, the statistics say that most affairs end a natural death at some point. I imagine that does not usually apply to ones where the BS knows of the A and says I'm ok with continued contact, but I guess we could ignore that. So A's most likely do eventually die a natural death. But not always. Some go on and on and on. Some turn into divorces and marriages to the OP. Do you really want to play this game of relationship "chicken". Waking up each day hoping this is not the day she says "I've made up my mind, I'm leaving you"

But I guess we could say that won't happen, because you are the better man and you will eventually prevail in this competition. Do you really think the better man always wins in these scenarios. We've got lots and lots of people on here with WXS's that traded down. Sure looks like being the better man is often irrelevant.

Even if this strategy works, how are you going to feel about things after you've made it through to the other side. IME, dealing with this stuff is not always a matter of the ends justifies the means. The means can create obstacles in the future that can not be overcome. You should consider that even if this strategy appears to navigate through the A, you are at a huge risk of building up a mountain of resentment that will destroy your M latter down the road.

Anyway, to your original question. No, I have not seen any cases where OM and WW remained friends and the M survived.

Just my 2 cents,

Best of luck.

Hey, I got the message. I am NOT condoning a friendship. I will not tolerate a friendship. I am gunning for NC. I know the A has not ended. I am not being naive about it. I'm just reporting on what she is telling me and doing.

Have you considered Plan B? It's the usual recommendation for dealing with a cake-eating wayward.

I can't possibly, for the life of me, think of any si2ation "riper" for coaching with the Harleys than this one, RIGHT NOW.

You won't settle for anything less than NC for life, and your W is starting 2 realize that. Getting there from here is going 2 require some finesse, if you don't simply go 2 plan B and let her pull her head out on her on and in her own time... ...at the end of which you might be less willing 2 reconcile.

I'd be interested 2 see what kind of plan the Harleys would have for you in this sitch right now.

-ol' 2long

Have you exposed the affair, bp?

BP,

My take on your situation is a little different. I think there's some merit to the idea of allowing the affair flame to burn itself completely out. And I'm not convinced this OM is an imminent danger to your marriage.

HOWEVER...

What strikes me is the astonishing lack of care and concern your wife is displaying for your feelings by hanging out with the man she cheated on you with.

That, and everything else you've written, suggests to me that she WAS infatuated with OM.... and IS NOW infatuated with you (as opposed to really loving you).

But what happens when her infatuation with YOU wears off? What OM will be waiting in the wings to fill that void?

I agree that you should get some professional help to guide you through recovery.

--SC

I seriously doubt that those folks on this site who have endured LTAs lasting 5, 10 or more years would agree with you SC...

Telling BP that is gravely irresponsible of you...doesn't surprise me though...I think that sometimes you just enjoy disagreeing around here for disagreement's sake...It's far from cute...These are people's real lives yanno...

And you're not convinced that this OM is an imminent danger? HUH? You are taking the word of an active wayward...UNREAL!!!

Are you still pals with your OMs?

Mrs. W

Well it's impossible for us to know if bigpicture's wife affair is waning, or if it will continue as a LT or VLTA. From where I stand, either one is a possibility, and either way bigpicture is going to suffer. That he is suffering does not seem to faze her, indicating a selfish state of mind....IMHO.

What we *do* know is that bigpicture would prefer NC to be in place. Toward that end, bigpicture, have you told your wife flat-out that every time she meets w/OM it is a withdrawal from your lovebank? That simply because she's honest about the contact does not make it any less painful and harmful to you? That each time she meets him for lunch she puts your marriage in jeopardy? That one day you may simply decide that you have had enough of her casual disregard for your feelings?

Sometimes communication, or the lack therof, is the issue.

I do like the idea of counseling w/the Harleys, as 2Long sugggested. Perhaps your wife could be sold on the idea of NC as being good for *her*.

PK

From what I have read on this site, now is the time to consider Plan B.

Your wife is cake-eating. Don't give her that option.

If you are winning, she will surely feel the loss of you in her life and human nature dictates "you want what you can't have". Although YOU know she can have you. It seems a little sneaky, but protect yourself. You are vulnerable!

Seriously, NC is the best thing to insist upon. If she doesn't do that, then she is blatantly disrespecting you. Again. The first was the A, now the desire for a "friendship"? What the heck is that about?!! Craziness I tell you. YOU should be first, not the OM. Recovery demands it.

If you are a prayerful person, lift it up to Him. He will certainly sustain and help you.