|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 638
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 638 |
I would add that there has been no move towards recovery whatsoever. I don't know how you personally define "moving toward recovery". I personally see: 1. His wife is home. 2. His wife is not verbally attacking him. 3. His wife is not emotionally distancing herself from him. 4. His wife is not justifying and/or defending her affair. 5. His wife is re-engaged in their marriage in a way that she had not been for some time. 6. His wife is not sneakily making arrangements to be with the other man. 7. His wife has been honest with him regarding her desire to to continue the friendship with OM, instead of just quietly choosing to continue the friendship covertly. YMMV, but I see that as a definite move toward recovery.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,816
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,816 |
Mel, for cryin' out loud, you said "in fact, you sought out others here for disagreement, not the other way around"
How is that not presuming why I posted (and it's certainly saying that you did know - "in fact").
I'm flabbergasted, and it takes a lot 2 gast my flabber!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316 |
I would add that there has been no move towards recovery whatsoever. I don't know how you personally define "moving toward recovery". I personally see: 1. His wife is home. 2. His wife is not verbally attacking him. 3. His wife is not emotionally distancing herself from him. 4. His wife is not justifying and/or defending her affair. 5. His wife is re-engaged in their marriage in a way that she had not been for some time. 6. His wife is not sneakily making arrangements to be with the other man. 7. His wife has been honest with him regarding her desire to to continue the friendship with OM, instead of just quietly choosing to continue the friendship covertly. YMMV, but I see that as a definite move toward recovery. She has simply changed her affair tactics...Contact continues...The affair continues...Real recovery is impossible without NC in place...She is APPEASING him so she can continue her affair in peace... Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,816
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,816 |
I have seen a couple of men who were in ongoing counseling with S. Harley who did an extended Plan A. The men writing about it said that Steve would ask them how they were holding out and whether or not they felt they could continue. When they said they thought they could, then he encouraged them to continue. I think that this is precisely why I encouraged bp 2 call the Harleys in this case. I had one introductory session with SH 5.5 years ago. After I gave him a summary of my story, he asked "So, you only just found out 7 months ago?" He didn't say "So, you've been in plan A for 7 months, you should have gone 2 plan B last month!" And the next thing he asked me was "how is your energy level?" And when I told him I felt pretty good, in spite of contact continuing, he advised continuing plan A. bp can do what he wants, but he'll be on much firmer footing if he pony's up a few hundred bucks and coaches with the Harleys than if he picks and chooses the advice he reads here - a lot of it probably sounding more conflicting 2 his inexperience ears than it does 2 ours. Because, if he takes his time deciding, or badly implements a plan (any plan), he may find himself personally recovered with a broken marriage he no longer wants. -ol' 2long
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 638
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 638 |
She has simply changed her affair tactics...Contact continues...The affair continues...Real recovery is impossible without NC in place...She is APPEASING him so she can continue her affair in peace...
Mrs. W I agree that they are not "in recovery". IMO, however, they are *moving toward recovery*. And I would hazard a guess that a majority of current BSs on the forum would give an eyetooth to be in a similar position as BP. YMMV.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I would add that there has been no move towards recovery whatsoever. I don't know how you personally define "moving toward recovery". I personally see: 1. His wife is home. 2. His wife is not verbally attacking him. 3. His wife is not emotionally distancing herself from him. 4. His wife is not justifying and/or defending her affair. 5. His wife is re-engaged in their marriage in a way that she had not been for some time. 6. His wife is not sneakily making arrangements to be with the other man. 7. His wife has been honest with him regarding her desire to to continue the friendship with OM, instead of just quietly choosing to continue the friendship covertly. YMMV, but I see that as a definite move toward recovery. Moving towards recovery would be to END THE AFFAIR, not to refuse to end contact. None of the above gets him any closer to that point. What he is experiencing this week is pretty much the same as what he experienced last month and the month before, the only difference now is that she is REFUSING to end contact, which means he is actually FARTHER from recovery than before.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Mel, for cryin' out loud, you said "in fact, you sought out others here for disagreement, not the other way around"
How is that not presuming why I posted (and it's certainly saying that you did know - "in fact"). huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> 2Long, you DID disagree with others on this thread. That is simply a true fact. I have no idea WHY and have not stated I know why. But you DID disagree.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 810
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 810 |
edited for TOS violation---harassment of other posters
Last edited by Lux_Et_Veritas; 01/09/08 03:48 PM.
"I require more from my spouse than behaving well in order to avoid pain." (guess who)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316 |
From Mel: The WW has simply redefined her affair in order to shut him up. From Mrs. W: She is APPEASING him so she can continue her affair in peace... *** You don't have to be a mind reader to accurately predict the actions of a WW toward her ADDICTION... ***Edited for TOS violation---harassment of other posters*** Mrs. W
Last edited by Lux_Et_Veritas; 01/09/08 03:47 PM.
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
edited for TOS violation
Last edited by Lux_Et_Veritas; 01/09/08 03:49 PM.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
In case anyone hasn't gone back and read BigPicture's previous posts, you might find it helpful to get the complete picture. Others have been telling him to go into Plan B to no avail. The phase he is in now is simply a repeat of an ongoing pattern, except WORSE because now his wife outright refuses to end contact: (Hopefully) Entering No contact stage [Re: bigpicture] #3333948 - 11/09/07 04:07 PM We are almost 2 weeks of NC. Yesterday she asked me if we could go out to dinner sans kids. We had a great time doodling on the paper tablecloth and excellent food without any relationship talk and without any kid pressures. Those kind of moments make huge important deposits in our love accounts. I feel she is at a critical stage right now because she is no longer getting love interactions / feelings from OM(hopefully) but she also is not ready or allowing herself to feel them from me either. This is probably harder on her because it means she lost 2 loves, not just 1 like me. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...amp;Search=true #3349806 - 12/05/07 03:26 PM Reply Quote Quick Reply She says I am now the "perfect" husband she has been hoping for 16 years but its too late. What do I do? I know I shouldn't try to convince her with words. I think she is at the point of deciding to end it because she can't go on like this anymore with us just being roommates and not in love while she is in love with someone else. She is really pissed at me because of my great plan A. What to do? Pasted from http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...amp;Search=trueHow to have a Powerful Plan A! Been there. Doing that. #3355338 - 12/12/07 11:33 AM I am sensing the end of my plan A. I know it has worked. Wife told me so. But she cannot let go of her addiction. She says she is changing her mind hour by hour, day by day. She cannot decide so I must. I have a plan, MBer’s plan. It worked so far. I will trust it more. Pasted from http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...amp;Search=true#3359758 -[/b] 12/18/07 12:32 PM
Reply Quote Quick Reply
UP: Last Thursday my wife felt like she had her priorities straight (our 3 kids being number 1) and that led to her thinking well of course I should stay married their father (me). So we had a glimmer of hope and on Friday she dropped off all OM things on his doorstep. Yeah. Friday night we went to dinner and she had her wedding ring on which I have not even seen in 3 months. BIGGER YEAH!
My WW is way MAD at this guy now. Last night I thought our marriage was over and today its the A that is over. Thank you God. Pasted from http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...amp;Search=true And on the 20th of December: LA,
Thank you for your help. I am desperate for advice. I feel I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown if I have to experience one more moment with their contact. I know I can't go home. I can't stand and won't tolerate the attitude she gave me yesterday. Especially after I am sure she spent the day with him, that they probably had sex. And then she came home with Xmas presents for our families. She said you don't have to ask anybody about my whereabouts because I don't have to lie (confirmation of seeing him). That was the last straw for me. I cannot look at her again right now, too much pain.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 638
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 638 |
edited for TOS violation
Last edited by Lux_Et_Veritas; 01/09/08 03:50 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316 |
edited for TOS violations
Last edited by Lux_Et_Veritas; 01/09/08 03:51 PM.
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,816
Administrator Member
|
|
Administrator Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,816 |
ok,,,,,,enough!!
Offer your advice or suggestions WITHOUT attacking another poster!!!!!!!!!!!
JustUss
Administrator/Moderator
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,816
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,816 |
In case anyone hasn't gone back and read BigPicture's previous posts, you might find it helpful to get the complete picture. Others have been telling him to go into Plan B to no avail. The phase he is in now is simply a repeat of an ongoing pattern, except WORSE because now his wife outright refuses to end contact: Okay, I re-read those, and realize that I had read them before - I didn't just "jump in" for the sake of an argument. Sounds like "typical" rollercoaster plan A stuff. I remember that time well. Didn't enjoy it. Had suicidal thoughts many times (but not tendencies). Got through it in what seemed like forever, but wasn't all that long, in retrospect. My advice 2 bp, if he really is still around, hasn't changed. -ol' 2long
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464 |
BP, I would like to add one other thing:
You seem to be viewing this as a "competition" between you and the OM, and believe that your WW is struggling to choose between you.
You seem to think that your task here is to prove to your WW that you are the better choice, and if you can just do that she will dump OM and choose you.
You have GOT to understand that your WW is NOT trying to choose between you and OM - not for one second.
She wants what virtually all WSs want -- she wants BOTH of you.
She wants both the comfort and security of marriage (you) AND the fun and excitement of dating (OM), and has convinced herself that she is so special and entitled or (fill in the blank) that it's okay for HER to behave this way.
She is thrilled that she's apparently found a way to have both, and can't figure out why everybody doesn't live this way -- guess they're just not as smart and clever and special as she is.
She adores having TWO men fighting over her and working hard to fill her ENs, and is high on this attention all the time.
THAT is what she wants.
Don't think for a minute that poor poor WS is struggling to make a choice.
She wants BOTH of you and you can be certain that she will keep this arrangement going for as long as she possibly can - in other words, for as long as you can be persuaded to be part of it. (We are talking YEARS here - a permanent lifestyle - if you are willing.)
That's why you need Plan B, because Plan B kicks one of the three legs out from this dynamic and causes it to fall over.
I hope you understand what I am trying to tell you. Many, many BS make the same mistake and think the WS is trying to "choose".
They're not.
Mulan That post from Mulan is so good and so on the money it bears repeating. Spot on Mulan.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464 |
And the advice to contact Steve Harley from 2long and others is also totally what bigpicture should do.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
[quoteI remember that time well. Didn't enjoy it. Had suicidal thoughts many times (but not tendencies). Got through it in what seemed like forever, but wasn't all that long, in retrospect.[/quote]
So are you suggesting that he stay in a perpetual Plan A for years on end, instead of following the Harley's advice and going into PLAN B? How many years of Plan A would you suggest, 2Long? Didn't you endure your wife's active affair for 3 years? And hasn't she told you she will resume her "friendship" in the future? Doesn't she still have his picture on her desk?
Is this what you envision for BP?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 245
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 245 |
THIS is what 2long is suggesting: I can't possibly, for the life of me, think of any si2ation "riper" for coaching with the Harleys than this one, RIGHT NOW.
You won't settle for anything less than NC for life, and your W is starting 2 realize that. Getting there from here is going 2 require some finesse, if you don't simply go 2 plan B and let her pull her head out on her on and in her own time... ...at the end of which you might be less willing 2 reconcile.
I'd be interested 2 see what kind of plan the Harleys would have for you in this sitch right now.
-ol' 2long
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
THIS is what 2long is suggesting: I can't possibly, for the life of me, think of any si2ation "riper" for coaching with the Harleys than this one, RIGHT NOW.
You won't settle for anything less than NC for life, and your W is starting 2 realize that. Getting there from here is going 2 require some finesse, if you don't simply go 2 plan B and let her pull her head out on her on and in her own time... ...at the end of which you might be less willing 2 reconcile.
I'd be interested 2 see what kind of plan the Harleys would have for you in this sitch right now.
-ol' 2long This is what he said, He is making an argument for a longer plan A, just "finessing" it a little and agreeing with Smartcookie that there is "merit" to allowing the affair to continue unabated; to "burn out on its own": I hate being one of these kinds of "experts", but I can see the point that SC is making here. SC: I think there's some merit to the idea of allowing the affair flame to burn itself completely out. And I'm not convinced this OM is an imminent danger to your marriage.] My W's VLTA lasted about 11 years. During that time, she never left her family 2 be with RM. D-day was 6 years ago next week. I never did plan B. She hung on2 the "friendship" in spite of my protests for at least 3 years of infrequent contact (2 states away, only 2 in-person contacts in public, an important difference from bp's sitch). The A most definitely died (RM is remarried).I wouldn't call this irresponsible at all. Certainly not "gravely" so. I do reiterate that it is critically important that bp apply some finesse 2 his plan A, with the help of the professionals, 2 get NC established. And With time, things could drastically change, no matter who does what. That's why I think finesse is important now. Agree very much he could benefit from counseling, but I think that more Plan A would be extremely damaging. And I especially think the notion that there is 'merit" to allowing it to continue unabated [with no Plan B, that is] is downright dangerous to his mental health.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
471
guests, and
85
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
