In no-fault states evidence of adultery doesn't do squat. Have you researched the specific info related to divorce for your state of residence?

Evidence of adultery can sometimes be influential in custody issues. It can vary from state to state, though.

What I'm driving at is it seems as if you are looking for something that will shorten the curve and make everything right. There are no shortcuts and nothing you can do to bring your wife back until she wants to do it. You don't need to convince her, you need to lead her. And to do that you have to give her a reason to want to come back.

You asked about having your step daughter over to the house. I think it would be good for your kids and good for her as well. But be very careful that you don't try to make it about bringing your wife home, because that will damage all of them beyond your wildest nightmares for years to come. You simply cannot use the kids to try to influence your wife in any way.

If I misread your intent from your words you posted, I am sorry, but it was more an overall feeling I was getting from the sum of your posts rather than any specific thing you said.

Plan A is the first step. Exposure becomes part of that. It cannot wait until Plan B because then it will be seen by everyone, WW, OM and those you expose to as well as revenge. Not the reason for it at all.

Expose soon, because I would say that your window of opportunity is closing rapidly.

And so that I know that you know what Pep was trying to tell you...You need to stop trying to make your WW do anything. That is what you need to give up on entirely...Not the marriage, just her in her current state. You need to shift your focus to those things on which you can have an effect and will have whether you actively do something or just sit back and wait. Your kids are those things.

What you do (or don't do) will have ripple effects with their children and theirs as well. How you model being a Dad during this crisis will give them the basis for what they think a Dad should be as well as what they see as important in a marriage.

Does your wife even know that you know about her boyfriend? Have you confronted her?

Have you exposed to those that might influence her to stop this insanity?

Have you identified her Emotional Needs? Have you identified where you have issues that are love busters to your wife and done away with them entirely.

Do you attempt to communicate to your wife that you are fighting for , not just her, but your marriage to her? I don't mean trying to reason with her or trying to educate her. She doesn't care how much you know until she knows how much you care.

If you want any chance at saving your marriage, start being proactive and less reactive. Your tactic of trying to gather more intel is wasting time and you don't have much of it.

Consider yourself thwacked...

Mark

In Pennsylvania, adultery is a grounds for divorce:

Fault Based Grounds: 1.Committed willful and malicious desertion period of at least one year. 2.Adultery. 3.By cruel and barbarous treatment, endangered the life or health of the injured and innocent spouse. 4.Bigamy. 5.Incarceration for at least 2 years. 6.Offered such indignities to the innocent and injured spouse as to render that spouse’s condition intolerable and life burdensome. (Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes - Title 23 - Sections: 3301)

From what I read, if proven, adultery will affect spousal support and may affect the division of the property.

graplin,

In PA what evidence does for me is keep me from paying temporary spousal support and alimony.

As far as division of marital assets it doesn’t do anything.

We have no custody issues because we don’t have any children together.

Gotcha! Is she employed, unemployed or underemployed?

Thanks princess,
I've already researched it and talked to an attorney about it.

Where in TX?

I'm in Plano, north of downtown Dallas... pretty soon to be connected to Allen, McKinney and then Oklahoma if we keep growing!

She's employed.... (what's underemployed?)

Mark,
You have a knack of explaining things in a way that I can relate to.

I don’t think I’m looking for a way of curving things I’m just new to this and don’t know to do this. I’m still learning. I did put a request in for a counseling session with Steve or Jennifer.

As far as my stepdaughter goes let me explain something… After my wife said she was moving out and before I found out about the affair I told her that that I didn’t want to see her for a while and that I would need some time to get over my hurt and anger. This also included her stepdaughter because I felt that it would just remind me of my wife. (After I found out about the affair I was really hurt and disgusted. This only reinforced my desire to not see her.) My intention was not to punish the stepdaughter just give me some time to heal. I talked to the stepdaughter and explained that to her and that she was always welcome here, but I needed some time to get over my hurt and anger. As a matter of fact before WW moved out stepdaughter and me had a real good cry together. (Kind of a breakthrough moment.) She’s always kept me at arms length and not wanting to get too close.

My wife does not know that I know and I have not confronted her. However I’m sure my stepdaughter knows. How could she not? She’s been to his apartment with her mother and he’s stayed the night at her apartment. She knows… She’s probably afraid of her mom getting really pissed for saying anything to me or she may be trying to protect me from being hurt. As a matter of fact my since all the girls talk it wouldn’t surprise me if my kids also know but they’re not saying anything in an effort to protect my feelings.

When I had my talk with my daughter last night and she said stepdaughter was mad at WW about spending too much time at AA. I read between the lines. Stepdaughter is really mad about OM, mad at mom, feels helpless and is probably really hurting. (I believe WW had cheated on stepdaughter’s dad also.) That’s why I asked WW if stepdaughter could come over. I thought it would be good for all the kids especially stepdaughter.


Ok I can relate to that…

“A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution applied ten minutes later.”
Gen. George S. Patton.

Thanks again Mark.

Working part time, or having for instance, a degree in accounting that goes unused while working instead as a waitress. That sort of thing.

A WW who is underemployed is usually awarded more financial support after a divorce. So, it is to the BH's advantage for the WW to be fully employed in something that reflects their true earning capabilities.

Ok... gotcha... She works full time and makes about 1/3 of what I do... and I'm in the military... I aint gettin rich anytime soon.

Have you read TMTS's (toomuchtoosoon) thread? Check it out. He's doing everything he can to delay his wife moving out.

Your reaction when you learned your wife wanted to move out was quite typical in many ways. You were hurt and not able to deal with the pain and were pretty much lashing out in anger toward your wife.

I can understand that and appreciate it. I can also see where you have discussed things now for a week. RIF's first response suggested exposure and today we're talking about...exposure...

Most of this stuff around here is not hypothetical but reality based. But it also is not very intuitive in many of the things it is suggested that you do. It doesn't hurt to question the logic of many things, but exposure is the best tool you have to put pressure on the affair. The longer you wait, the longer she has to spin what she is doing. She can let everyone know what an a$$ you have been and how she had to get away from you because you wee driving her to drink and since she moved away she has found this really nice guy and they are just friends and you are being your usual [censored] self about it and...

Does that sound like something she might tell folks she knows?

That is why you need to tell people what is really going on and that you are trying to fight for your marriage.

And no matter how you expose or who you expose to it will make your wife so mad she will chew up spikes and spit out tacks. You will hear things out of her mouth you never dreamed you'd hear. She will call you names, say you are meddling in her life and tell you that she was thinking about coming home to work on the marriage until you did this.

I heard it...Others have heard it...It isn't anything original or new...It isn't anything you need to respond to or react to. Just know that is is coming and recognize it when it happens.

Any addict who is about to have their drug taken away is angry and will attempt any and every trick or threat they can muster in order to protect their next fix. And a WS is addicted to the way the AP makes them feel. It is the same chemicals at work in the brain and the same responses in the body that take place. Understand it and prepare yourself for it, but do not let it prevent you from doing what you need to do.

What happened to the first marriage for both of you BTW? Sorry if I missed it someplace, but refresh me.

Mark

I know exposure is what I need to do… I think I’m afraid that if I expose I’ll miss my opportunity to get evidence that I can use in court if I need to. Like I said I want to save my marriage but I’m also afraid of being legally vulnerable. I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place. On one hand I really-really want to go out to a coffeehouse and sit down with my wife and tell her that I know… That I want to fight for her and our marriage…Acknowledge that I helped create the conditions for the affair by neglecting my wife… But on the other hand I don’t want to have my butt swinging in the breeze when I do it.

I just got off the phone with the PI… I told him I wanted him done this week and that I was going to confront her about it next weekend weather he was finished or not.

So there you have it …next weekend or sooner… I would like to talk to Steve or Jennifer first though.


Yes it does however, I don’t think they will believer her… She has a history of this and her family knows it. I’ve called her brother before to talk about my marriage problems or just to shoot the breeze… I don’t know how, but my wife finds out every single time and she gets PISSED. It may be that her brother just has a big mouth and can’t keep it shut. (At least that’s what WS says.) The last time I called him was the day before D-Day. One of the first things he asked me was “Is she screwing around on you?” (He must know her pretty well to ask that) At the time I didn’t know and told him that I didn’t know. WS knew I called the next day… She stole my cell phone the day after that and she was LIVID. Screaming at me about how I called her brother when she specifically told me not to. How I stabbed her in the back and that she couldn’t trust me… (Isn’t that a crock….) Knowing what I know now it was all hype to make me feel guilty… You know… a good offence is the best defence….

First marriage for both of us…. Hmmm… that may be a much longer post but I’ll try and summarize it very briefly.

Me: Married once for the wrong reason… I felt obligated because we had a child… She was maniacally depressed/BI-polar. She tried to commit suicide. When she got out of the hospital she decided she wasn’t coming back. I went to court, her mother filed an intervention to try and get custody of kids… 2 years later divorce was final and I got custody of all 3 kids. (Including her son who wasn’t my biological son) I was a single parent for seven years before I married current wife.

Her: Married once, (one son), then was with another man for 7 years without marrying. (One daughter.) She told me what happened with her daughter’s father. (But I don’t believe everything she told me now) Here’s what she told me… He was an abusive drunk…she got sick of his crap… she kicked him out and he moved in right next door…(no kidding… was still there when I met her) they went through a custody battle. She ended up getting custody. She said she didn’t start seeing anyone else until they split up but he maintains that she was having an affair. The fact is the guy she was seeing was married so it was an affair even if it started after she split up with her daughter’s father. (follow that?) I should have realized when I met her that she was bad news.

So there you have it… a very short marital history… Maybe I’ll post the whole story of my first divorce one day... by the time the divorce was finalized I was disgusted with how incompetent the social workers and the family court systems are.

Man you gotta be bullet proof or at the very least believe you are. IMO you've been dodging bullets for a while now.

If I were you, which of course I am not, I would make some real changes necessary even if she came back tonight before letting her back into my house.

I can tell you that though my wife had more than one affair years ago and the most recent one didn't really amount to much, it trashed my emotions a lot more than anything previous, perhaps because of where I thought we were when it happened. Today we have different tools to work on problems and we both know things we didn't know back then.

That said, there won't be another recovery. If it happens again, she's history and she knows that this time around. With what we know now, there is no reason for it to happen, even from an excuse standpoint.


And Henry VIII was the last to have his xW offed and get away with it in the courts.

Mark

I've already said this but I'll say it again...

I'm resolved to NOT going back to the way things were...She had too many male friends including the one she had an affair with when she was with her daughters father... too damn inconciderate of others feelings including the kids...too controlling...not trusting...etc etc etc...

I'm not going back to that crap...I deserve better...

Either we change things for the better of our marriage and our family... or its over and I change things for the betterment of my kids and myself... I'm going to be fine either way. I want her to be a part of my life but NOT back to the way things were... and if she isn't capable or doesn't want to change then I'm gone...

Before I would even consider letting her come back in the house we would have to have some serious pro marital Christian marriage and family counseling that was showing progress. She would have to make a good faith gesture of total honesty by letting me have access to all of her email accts, phone accounts etc so that I can be sure she's not screwing around...The obvious NC with the OM. The other thing I'm going to insist on is that my kids have a desire to want her back... And right now their split. One does and one doesn't. She's going to have to convince them that she has changed or started to make a change for the better and that she should be let back into our lives...

If I sat on my butt and waited...there's no doubt in my mind she's going to want back in.. I'm the best thing that happened to her and she knows it. The thing is… I'm not going to roll over let her wipe her feet on me then say "that's all right honey all is forgiven come on back...She's going to have to want to make an honest effort to save the marriage, work on our blended family issues, work on her ISSUES, and convince those kids that she's deserving. I don’t know if she has it in her to do it… She’s so afraid of trust and commitment it may be too much for her to do…

But that's basically what would have to happen in order for me to be willing to let her come back.

BTW… now that I've got that out of my system...

Does anyone have some good examples of plan B letters?

Just thought I might want to plan for the inevitable…

Mark,


Such as???

I already posted what I think should happen before I let her back… Any input?



I understand … Change me for the better and be the best husband and father that I can be…concentrate on my kids… Let her see the changes and that gives her a reason to want to come back. She has to make that decision on her own. I can’t force her to do anything.

I think I’ve started doing those things….

First of all I’m here… probably the best thing I’ve done so far. I’m learning about what a happy healthy loving marriage should be and what I can do to change the things that are within my power to change.

Second of all I’m working on being good to me and making me healthy and happy… Working out… going to counseling to work on my issues…Planning on quitting smoking…getting some other health issues fixed (I snore terribly)…learning to dance…etc…

Third I’m spending time with my kids… Showing them that I love them and that things are going to change for the better. Since WW left my kids and I have been getting along so much better. When WW was here there was a lot of resentment about parenting, from me and her and from my kids… I was reading HNHN for parents and it says this is very common in blended families… If we had been practicing a POJA we wouldn’t have this problem.

Thanks

I need some coaching/help with exposing WW affair. Like I said in an earlier post I want to do this by next weekend or sooner.

I would like to talk to her parents… ask them to support me in saving our marriage.

I want to find out if there’s any pressure I can put on the affair through Alcoholics Anonymous since that’s where they met and they go to meetings together. I plan on going to an ALANON meeting today and find out what/if there’s anything that I can do through AA.

When I tell my wife that I know, I would like to do it at a coffee shop… Any input on what conversation I should have and how to do it without being ugly and committing several LB’s…

Any Help and advice welcom.

My H is at his daily AA meeting right now.

My thought about AA exposure is

possibly expose to her sponsor

My H sponsors 3 men currently

when he returns from his meeting, I will ask him about this situation

What would he do if a non- AA spouse came to my husband to tell him that one of the men he sponsors is having an affair with another AA member

my guess is, he would take the cheating spouse out for coffee and discuss in private

Do you know who your wife's sponsor is ?