yes...do not call her...I was just making sure you didn't cave in...wonder whose will call first....of course, mine has to come get the kids tomorrow, so I guess that won't count....

I'll come back with my suggestions later....still spending time with DD...she's in the bathroom...lol

Amazin...I've not posted to you before but just got caught up...thank you for your service!



This sounds like something I'd do...and I can tell you it's a useless exercise...not very effective, and can lead you down a dead end road.

The only person who can tell you what their needs are is your WW.

Speculating can only contribute to you trying to "figure her out"...when in reality, it's you that needs to figure yourself out.

OBTW, I say this with the utmost respect, b/c I've been there and understand it so very well... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Her alcohol use and prior marriage is a sure sign there's so very much else going on than your marriage.

If I'd been able to calmly assess my wife before I'd married her with the wisdom of my current life experience, I'm absolutely sure I would have made a very different decision.

Your comments about older men "warning you off" ring true...my WW was/is also so very much a flirt. This is one of many signs of a huge lack of self-esteem...

The question is...how are YOU doing, my friend?

Continue to take good care of your wonderful children.

A saying I heard some time ago that continues to ring true and helps to guide my actions is (and I paraphrase)

"in the end, what will be remembered is what kind of a man you were and what kind of children you raised..."

L2F

I'm not sure I know what you're talking about... Refresh my memory.



How do I figure out what her intimate needs are? I'm not going to say... "Here honey fill this questionaire out for me..."

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about figuring myself out... what do I need to know about me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

LET IT SNOW...

2 Hour delay... hopfully it will be a snow day and I wont have to go to work all day... I could use another 3 day weekend.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good morning Amazin...

I promised you some help, and here I go. Before I get started though, I wanted to comment on this. In the first part of the quote, this is YOUR perception. It may not have been how SHE saw this.

In the second paragraph, I can TOTALLY relate to your WS in this. Let me give you some insight into the FEMALE mind.

First of all, affection is not merely limited to hand holding, hugging, kisses, and the such. Reread that section in HNHN (I can't remember if you read that or not...if not, then DO...). This situation happened MANY times between WS and I. NOw, if you were not doing anything to meet her other EN's and your affection was limited to these types of displays, then when you would go to do these, she would pull away because in HER mind you were only looking for one thing...SF. For a woman, SF is the topper to all of her other EN's being met. If you are taking the time to meet her need for Conversation, Admiration, and affection, then she would BE more than receptive to SF.

You see, when a man "limits" his affection to merely physical displays (the hand holding, hugs, kisses...anything not SF), then a woman BELIEVES that his only motive is SF...ESPECIALLY when he has been Love Bustin for the last couple of days....

For example,,,,,If my WS comes home, doesn't have any real conversation with me (whick is my TOP EN...are we surprised??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />), doesn't compliment me on the house or what is cooking on the stove, starts making a mess himself...then when he gets around to giving me a hug and some kisses then I am NO WHERE near ready for that kind of affection, because in my mind I am thinking "he just wants to get laid".

Now, I understand what Dr. Harley say about a man's need for SF and how this is how a man shows his love, but I did NOT understand this before I read the book. I can look back and see how I was wrong in my thinking and I should have responded different, but at the time, that is what I thought, and I am willing to bet the farm, your WS was the same...


Does that make any sense....

I am going to post again to give you some idea's about meeting her EN's.

L2F is right about spectulating what her EN's are, BUT you have to start somewhere...even Dr. Harley says that. And if you are changing to meet her EN's you are taking care of yourself, because even if she doesn't come back, you are making GOOD changes that would make you more desirable to someone else....

not2fun

Yes it does...


I do understand what you’re saying N2F… and I’m not disagreeing. But I feel that I was always more affectionate than my wife… At least it seemed that way after we were married… Not so much when we were dating. She was very affectionate then.


Why is it that women think we always have an ulterior motive? (At least my wife always does.) Just curious… but isn’t it possible that we don’t and we’re just trying to be nice? I’m not saying that we never have an ulterior motives… Like when we’re being nice just to get out of the dog house… but there are times we just want to be nice… Maybe it’s just a difference of perception between men and women. I dunno…

I do understand that wives need to feel special a lot better now... My WW use to say she didn’t get upset about the big things it's the little things that piss her off" (or the lack of little things) Doing little things = affection…

I read Mortormans thread about the roles of husbands and wives. One of the things that in the thread was that husbands are to be their wives sanctifier. (The word sanctification is one of those big words that basically means “to set apart as unique or special.”) When I read that it was kind of like a light went off. I understand now… A wife needs to feel special and it’s the husbands job to make sure she feels special. I GET IT… It’s the little things we do that make our wives feel special. Making the coffee in the morning and bringing her a cup. Cleaning the car off and warming it up for her in the morning when it snows, sending her flowers just because. Emailing or texting her just to say we’re thinking of them…etc..etc etc.. If we send flowers because it’s Valentine’s Day and we feel obligated… then it doesn’t mean as much to the wife…

I guess I could be working on finishing my daughters room... I still have to paint the trim...

Is that a plan A thing?

You feel.....that just it Amazin...YOU FEEL...Might not have been her point of view though....Another thing, Affection is NOT LIMITED to the physical stuff (hand holding, kisses, and hugs...), were you seeing her affection as the physical stuff??? From the example you wrote of and other stuff you said, that was the impression I got.

As far as the ulterior motive, do you really have to ask??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />....Actually, my WS and I have talked about this before. The BIGGEST reason we think that is society. Think about it, we were all raised to believe that is all boys wanted. Girls are warned about when the enter the dating scene, all we hear about is the teenage boys "raging" hormones. Articles everywhere discussing how often a man thinks about sex, when they think about, how they dream about it. What would you expect us to think?? Are we supposed to think that just because you married us that suddenly you don't want it any more??? That because you married us, that you think about it any less???? And what is in a man's top 5 EN's? SF...It has been beated into our heads that all men want is sex.

Now, like I said, Dr. Harleys explains SF need for men differently than I have ever heard it...in fact, I was kind of skeptical of this explanation at first, but when I REALLY thought about it, it makes sense....

You stated that there are times when men do this stuff just to be nice, not just for SF....exactly when are WOMEN supposed to know when those times are????

Ok...done with that. I totally get what you are saying Amazin, but I thought about what you had said all night last night and wanted to give you a female perspective on all of this. Or at least mine.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I have read Mortorman's stuff...it is good. Any FYI....we love flowers on Valentines day, but if that is the ONLY day we get them, yep, doesn't mean as much (or at least to me.....) unless its been YEARS since we had gotten any, then we are speechless....whew...us women are hard to figure out..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Ok, the room being painted.....is that a Plan A thing???

That depends....have you guys talked about doing it in the past??? Did she ever ask for it??? Is this something that has been so neglected that you HAVE to do it?? Did your daughter ask for it???

I say no matter what the answer to those questions are, that yes it is a Plan A thing. You are taking care of YOUR GUYS house, even in her absence.

not2fun

I understand that affection is not limited to physical stuff... Like I said it's the little things... coffee, cleaning off the snow...

Was I just seeing her affection as the physical stuff? ... Hmmm I'm gonna have to think about that... Yes and no… (Confused??? LOL) When we were dating and early in marriage she would do things like decorate the bedroom with hearts that all had little notes on them… Not so much after we had been married a year or two… And eventually stopped completely … So in one sense No I didn’t see just the physical stuff….But on the other hand maybe I wasn’t perceiving the other things she did as affection… Like making sure the kids had good birthdays… decorating … shopping for Christmas presents… cards for me… flowers … etc… So Yes I think there were times when I didn’t perceive her actions as affections because they weren’t physical…



I think that is a dilemma that may never be solved…LOL... So I don’t know how to answer that question. I read somewhere that men give women attention so they can get sex, and women give sex so they can get more attention… In very general terms that may be true of single people (who are looking for a mate) … I don’t necessarily think that’s true in a marriage though.



What I was trying to express is that when it’s done for no special reason other than because your husband wants to show you some affection then it means more than when it’s done because he feels obligated. And I would think it would mean more to the wife… that’s all.


Hmmm…. Yes, yes, ahhh yes maybe??? And yes…. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

A short history…The couple we bought our house from originally bought it in 1970 for $24,000. When we moved in the inside still looked like it was 1970… wallpaper on almost every wall and shag carpet covering hard wood floors. But that didn’t bother me because I knew we could paint and remove the carpet…I just wanted to paint everything white because I always expected we would sell this house eventually and white is an easy sell … WW wants to paint it in color… I painted the dining room 3 times... White… then light green… she wanted the trim dark green so we tried that and didn’t like it… take the paint off… paint again… I kind of teased her that I had to paint that damn room three times and if she would have just let me stop when it was white… I could have painted the rest of the house in the same amount of time I took on that dining room … LOL

Daughter’s room is like a sky blue with white trim. I thought it needed a touch of dark blue somewhere so I’m going to get some dark blue window treatments of some sort…

Golly garsh … while I’m at it I think I’ll sing some Judy Garland show tunes and get some track lighting… LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Yes… I know it sounds gay….and… NO I’m not… My wife always said I was good at picking colors and decorating… she’s not… We’re kinda backwards that way…

I let my daughter pick the color… somewhat… If I let her pick the color she really wanted it would have been lime green with purple and orange… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ok...if you let her pick the color she wanted somewhat...where is blue in that scheme???? My DD14 wanted an orange, pink and lime green room....3 walls are a lighter shade of orange and the other wall is a deeper orange. All the accessories in her room have orange, hot pink and lime green in them....She only a kid once you should have let her have some fun with it...it would have been some good practice at negotiating.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure where your wife thinks you are good with colors and decorating if you want to paint everything WHITE...aka boring....

ok...off my soap box...can you tell I'm a color gal... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Now you may be better at picking out colors and decorating, but did you know that a woman's home is her pride???? Not saying you shouldn't get a say so, but it like a man with his career. JTLYK...

As far as men showing affection to get sex and women using sex to get affection,,,,that was in HNHN....

Have you read any of the books?????

Now, we are ending the discussion on the difference's between men and women. I was giving you a woman's perception on the first quote of yours (I was the more affectionate one...). I didn't want to slam you or anything, I just wanted to let you know how your WS might have seen things....it really doesn't matter, because it is in the past and we are concerned with the here and now and the future...(and yes it looks like you learned a little about the small things...her taking care of the kids, decorating...all that would be under her meeting the DS EN...)

Now....for the work....

Affection- you stated flowers...does she like getting them? when was the last time you gave her some??? What about a card??? Your letters are a good one?? when was the last time you wrote one??? How about getting her some of her favorite candy ??

not2fun

I'll be back later with some more...I have to go play some poker....and I need to get on my thread to talk about the events of the day.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Ok before I get to your post N2F I got to say something…


LOL… Too bad we didn’t bet. Mine called… At least two or three times and step daughter called two or three times. It’s funny because I took the girls to see the movie Charlie Bartlett and forgot my phone. I’ll bet WW was freaking out thinking I wasn’t taking her calls…LOL… When we got home there was a message on my home phone from SD saying call and she don’t care how late… I’m thinking there’s a problem…so my daughter called and then she came to my room and handed me the phone… SD said that she was looking for some red snow pants and wanted to know if they were in my closet. That WW, SD and a female friend were going snow tubing tomorrow. Makes me wonder… all of that over a pair of red pants? Just two days ago she didn’t want to see me anymore, wanted me to get an attorney and file for divorce…. Fog bla bla bla fog bla… Now she’s going out of her way to get a pair of red snow pants that she literally paid $2.00 for at the goodwill…

Just following the script I guess….LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So should I see her when she comes over tomorrow morning or not? Should I just let the SD come in and get the pants and leave or should I go out to the car? I know WW won’t get out of the car or come in.

Advice Please.

Amazin,

uh, my WS called me at 11:30 am. I haven't posted about it yet though...but I am next.

I bet she was freaking out. Now when she comes over tomorrow, I would have a big ol' thermos of hot chocolate or coffee to send with her and the kids.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. I would make sure I look good, but not too over the top. If she doesn't come in, I would just take the thermos out to her and give it to her personally. Just comment of what they are going to do, wish them well, tell her to call if they need anything and leave it at that. You could maybe have some pasteries to go with the hot chocolate. But yes, since she has broken the "ice" so to speak, go ahead a talk to her now....just stay away from R,M and A talk....oh, and taxes... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Hope you get this before she gets there....Let me know how it goes....

not2fun

Damn... or... should I say “good for you..???” I’m so confused…LOL

I thought my WW would be the first to call... It’s the script… they must be in the same science fiction Wh*re movie. (Or is that horror, or maybe ho)…LOL

I'm taking your advice.

I went to the store early this morning. I bought some instant coco, some quality coffee and some doughnuts. I also bought a couple of small thermoses and some cheap plastic yellow mugs that have smiley faces on them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (She always liked smiley faces) I also found a left over Christmas gift bag in my trunk, (It says’ “Let it Snow”) I’ll put all the stuff in the bag and I’ll take it out to her when she gets here. (Not sure how that's gonna work if it's just her female friend and SD... not the WW??)

I don’t plan on saying much just that SD said they were going tubing and I thought I would send something to warm you up when you’re cold…
Maybe I should make a homemade card and put it in the bag too? Maybe with a short poem…

nope on the card and poem....don't want to go overboard.....remember, she just got done being mad at you...

Good job on taking the advice....and even if she is not there and only the friend and SD, she'll still get the message. It may frusterate her, but it'll make her think of you....

Now this is where NO EXPECTATIONS comes into play...you are doing this small thing for her, you are not EXPECTING anything to come of it....remember the rules...

1. meet WS EN's
2. advoid LB's
3. NO EXPECTATIONS.OR EXPECT TO BE HURT.....

keep those in mind...and remember Plan A is about being the best YOU you can be..


not2fun

Thanks N2F,
You're great!

Like I thought, SD and female friend (who I can't stand) stopped by. Not WW. SD said she that they dropped her off at the thrift store before they came over and that she was looking for snow gloves. Hmmm... stubborn???... pridefull??? still pissed??? or just making a point?

I didn't send a card or a poem... Just the bag with the coco, coffee, doughnuts, and the pants.

NO EXPECTATIONS.......

you can't understand a WS mind....TOO FOGGY....

NO EXPECTATIONS

not2fun

I'm trying...

It's hard to do sometimes...

GO CLEAN YOUR BASEMENT... and get rid of all that crap that's taking up space...

I'll go paint....LOL

We'll both feel better if we get something accomplished today.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well I got 95% of the painting done. The only thing left is the real tedious stuff, like the wood in the windowpane, and a little bit of trim where it meets the hardwood floor.

My youngest daughter wants me to go to church with her this morning… I really haven’t been feeling up to it. I know I need to go; I’m just not motivated to right now…

I want to finish the trim and take down the tape. Then maybe I’ll go look for a new bed for my oldest daughter. WW took her bed when she moved out… She was going to leave it for her to use until I could get another. Then for some reason she changed her mind about 4 days after she moved out. It kind of pissed me off… Makes me wonder if she didn’t take it over to OM’s apartment… That would really make me mad…

Ok... I'm done painting... (Finally) I don't mind painting the walls... but the trim sucks... LOL

I need to get off of here and go do something... I think I'll take my oldest daughter to look at furniture and have some father daughter time.

Amazin,


How's it going?? It's funny because my WS doesn't mind painting the wall either, but hates to trim...me?? I like trimming but HATE rolling...go figure....

Enjoy that father/daughter time.....

later on we will get back to Plan A talk....(you know, come up with a game plan....)

not2fun