Yep, that all sucks alright. As I recall my IL's all turned out to be a bit of a disappointment. Just more of the crap that can not be controlled.



Wayzilla too. Gollum is a part-time smoker too.

No need to respond to it. Might as well go to the zoo and discuss Brownian Motion thermodynamics with the lemurs during mating season. You won't get much out of it.

Sorry Amigo. This stuff stinks.

I think *I* heard that shoe drop.

My IL's have always helped PWC out. He's family, you know. I'm not. Just how it goes. I remember sitting and talking to PWC's younger brother, three years ago, when this all started, and seeing FIL and BIL so bewildered over PWC's choices and actions. Didn't keep them from harboring him when he had nowhere to go. Didn't cause them to question him about his choices. They basically just grinned and went about their business, as PWC had sex with another woman. Just the way it goes.

I have always seen this as my battle to fight; not my IL's or my family. I was always grateful when they stepped in to help, and took their help gladly. They couldn't save my M; it was always up to me and PWC. PWC chose not to.

I have learned to have no expectations, really, not in these situations. It's easier to just see what happens and then act. You never know what people are really like until they are faced with a crisis or challenge.

Anyway, I don't wanna preach. These are her parents. Whadya gonna do?

Now, if your children are in danger, that's another story alltogether, so don't think I'm some pushover. There is just only so much that you can control. You can control how you go about your life, and how you handle your personal life. You just can't control SCQ.

I hear you, SL. I've been back and forth on whether or not to expect anything from the ILs. I'm fairly certain that they've done everything that they are capable of, which is perhaps not as much as I would like but is certainly all that I can expect.

I had been assuming the worst of them for a time, but in January I had a phone conversation with FIL, and from that conversation it was plain that he had been trying to talk sense into her (as gently as he could), but that the SCQ is heels-dug-in stubborn about it. It gave me a glimmer of hope (everybody else gets this, why can't she?).

It was clever of the infidels to couple meeting POSOM with a visit by the grandchildren, because how can my ILs refuse? No, I don't blame them for not being able to pull her out of the Fog (the dysfunctional household in which the SCQ grew up is another story).

It was only a matter of time for this (POSOM meeting and being accepted by the family). Another hurdle in this marathon in hell. Or, this analogy comes to mind: we are being carried by the raging river toward the waterfall, and this was one more branch I shot past without being able to grab it.

OMW called me today. I only had a minute to talk. She didn't know where he is, so I told her. She said "He was over here Saturday morning mowing the grass--that explains why he was trying to get out of here." (Shopping, indeed.)

OMW tells me POSOM is coming to her place tonight to work on their taxes. She's so helpless. Classic cake-eating.

I'm in no way saying that you should just throw in the towel and prance toward divorce. Nope. Just saying that you are still in this control phase. This need to DO something. I suppose part of that is not being done, which for SCQ is a GOOD thing.

If the day comes that you could give a rat's a$$ if SCQ comes back or not, she is toast. With the modified, dusk Plan B, this may be approaching more quickly than with a black as night planB. Meh, what the heck do I know.

You know, just focus on the journey, whether it be in water, on water or above water.

I woke up feeling good today. Feeling content with my life and what I'm doing with it.

Anyway, I would like to think that I have given up attempts to control the situation. The ones I do now are ones that Jennifer approves of--the letters, trying to influence the ILs (by having the kids call them and letting the ILs know that the door is still open).

The need to DO something isn't so persuasive these days--it's more like minor impulses come and go.

Today is a good day.

Congrats on the good day man. We all need those every so often

If there's anything I've found lately it's that the good days are fewer and farther between the more removed I am from the drama.

Sip a frosty one, lounge near the beach, and don't go gerbil hunting for a few days and I'm sure you'll string a few more together.

I'm trying to hang up my gerbil hunting gear for the season myself, so I know it's easier said than done.. but there's SANITY just waiting over the next hill.

SD,

I can relate to how you feel. I was feeling that way many months ago.

One of the greatest moments you can reach is the moment when you finally accept that nothing that goes on on the other end will make sense and you must simply accept it.

Don't get me wrong, my buttons still get pushed from time to time, but I don't let it show anymore.

So it will get better. Keep your focus on your kids and being there for them. They are the one's who matter in the end. They are the ones who remember who wanted to keep the family together and who faltered.

My father cheated on my mother and it led to their divorce. It's been 10 years. He's been forgiven, but it hasn't been forgotten.

One thing to remember, though, is that a child doesn't like seeing the other parent attacked or criticized venemously. My parents have been divorced for 10 years now and they stayed with me recently to see the kids and offer support. They hung out together at my house and it was great, but there were moments of feeling "disgusted" with my dad.

Why? He made jokes about infidelity in a TV program we were watching. I couldn't watch. I've been the victim of infidelity from my wife and from my dad and it isn't something I enjoy watching.

I left.

Do I have a good relationship with my dad? Yes, but it took years and it helped when he divorced the OW.

So your kids will remember who faltered and who didn't. They'll remember who was playful with them and took part in their events and who wasn't.

They'll remember who put them first in their life.

Just keep the faith and focus on them and all will be ok.

You will never figure SCQ out and will simply waste brain cells and time trying to do so.

Take care.

I'm working on this one. I was just thinking this morning, while driving in to work, will these thoughts of wondering if I did enough ever cease. I'm not obsessing, but I'll hear a song or see a movie, and wonder if PWC really knew how much I loved him, and would THAT have changed anything, if he REALLY knew.

I believe the answer is NO. I believe he was a brick wall.

I was pondering posting if this type of thinking wanes with time. I keep picking at myself, dissecting everything I did and DIDN'T do. I could have been more this ,or less that, and THEN maybe things would be different. Then I read threads where the WS's seemed just like mine when they came home, but eventually, the other WS's started to pull their own weight, as in mvg and StillCrazy's cases. I have to recognize that MINE did not, and there was virtually nothing that I could do about it. I WANT to believe that there was nothing more I could do.



I hear ya, PapaO'3

The thoughts of "if only" don't ever really go away, I think. They are still there. There just comes a point where you accept that thinking that way is a waste of time and you move on to do other things or think about other things.

Believe me, my love for my WW was the strongest it had ever been when she told me she wanted a D. I believed for a long time that she was making a big mistake for her, us, and the kids by wanting to go down that path.

It took me a long time to let go of that. Do I still think she made a mistake? Yes. We rushed into a major decision that will have a very long term affect on our kids.

BUT, dwelling on that had me stuck. I was stuck in constantly replaying things in my mind and looking for some glimmer of hope the fog would lift and all would be restored.

I don't think that stuff goes away very quickly, especially when you're the one that didn't want the D, but it does eventually lessen and then it gets to a point where you DON'T want that and then to a point where if the opportunity arose there would be no way in he** you'd take it.

I'd be willing to help my ex if she needed the help, but only because she's the mother of my kids and for no other reason. Helping her helps them.

Letting go of the conflict, however, is a wonderful thing. Realizing that some battles are simply not worth fighting over is a big leap to make and it is very liberating.

SD, I'm sorry if you feel this is a threadjack. I am sharing thoughts on things you're going through.

It will be tough for you to see your WW with OM for a while, maybe always. It will be tough to see your kids be affectionate with OM, if that day ever comes. But there comes a day when you accept it and are ok with it, at least in terms of accepting that you kids will always be yours no matter what and you will always be #1 to them.

OM will eventually disappear. It's just a matter of time.

Nope, no TJ worries, and thanks for stopping in. I value your comments.


Much wisdom here. I get better at this all the time. I just posted something along these lines to Fox. It becomes easier to not respond not just because I'm avoiding LB'ing but because it's not worth my breath to do so. There's just no point in fighting over it, or even staying angry about it, for that matter, because it is.

I chatted with MIL last night when I called the kids. She thanked me for the wooden puzzle I made and sent them, and then we chatted about DS8's homework project, and then I told her (in a non-sanctimonious way) that I didn't blame them for letting POSOM into their house--that I know they didn't have a choice.

Which led to lengthier conversation. MIL understands that the SCQ is making a mistake but is powerless to prevent it. She doesn't have the appreciation for the insanity of infidelity that we have around here, but she wants what I want. Still, I found myself throwing out the statistics, telling her how POSOM is a bad guy who has been lying to and using her--trying to convince MIL as if she could say some magic words to the SCQ. I said "I just want you to know that I'm doing what I can to keep the door open so that the SCQ can return to our family," and she said "Yes, I just don't know how to make that happen."

I walk around my house which I have been making mine and wonder whether I really want that shallow broken person back in my life, but given an opportunity, all of the desire for recovery comes bubbling out again. Guess I'm not Done yet.

We each make our own decisions on what IS worth fighting for. What is important to me may not be important to someone else.

There are MANY things that I let go of.....this was not one of them.



I'm glad you received some reinforcement from MIL. We all need that from time to time. Even though they are as powerless as we are, it's nice to know we are not alone.


Why? What keeps you hanging on so long? Aside from the children, what is the gain to you?

Honestly, I'm wondering how you have maintained this for so long.

Fox

Right here with you on this bro.

I also understand still throwing out the line to the IL's and in effect keeping them on your side.

For me, being a visual thinker I realize there's nothing they can do NOW.. they won't be able to 'reason' with her any better than I could.. but it's shooting the arc for the future.. knowing that SCQ may just need a nudge in the right direction at the right moment... and that moment could very concievably come during a conversation with MIL (or in my case FIL).. lamenting however their magical turd of a relationship ends.. and the IL's saying.. you know, SDGuy never once gave up on you.. and on and on from there..

Yeah.. it's a nice little daydream, and it gets all those reconciliation juices flowing again.

But then take a breath, look at what IS today.. and keep moving towards your own recovery.

I'm almost getting to thinking that the personal recovery.. for a lot of BS's has to come first whether marital recovery follows or not... I just wonder how many give up and force 'done' before they're really ready to be there.. and end up making another bad choice into a 'rebound' relationship..

Hi James

You make many good points here. Good insight on the InLaws.


I'm not sure that it is giving up or forcing done. I think it more as reaching a limit. When the cost to hang on comes directly from your soul and you are no longer willing to pay the personal price.

Some have higher thresholds than others. Or have more in their reserves and are willing to pay a higher price.

In some cases, I suppose, it could be "forcing" done because while the heart wants to go on.....the soul can't cover the price and "done" must occur for the soul to cuts it's losses.

Fox

I obviously haven't figured out how to do quotes, so read the body of my "quote".

Sorry about that.

This first struck me as being like "Aside from the oxygen, what's so great about breathing?" It is all about the children. What wouldn't I do for them?

Would I commit the rest of my life to a relationship I know I couldn't be happy in? No, but since our marriage hasn't had a real shot at being repaired, I hang around for that opportunity. Since I believe we could be happy again and that that would be what's best for the children, I hang in.


What I said above and because (about some things) I am incredibly stubborn and persistant. Part of it comes from being a die-hard fan of the Chicago Cubs for over 30 years. Perserverance. Now I will have two things to wait for with low-grade hope--the Cubs to win a Series and for my wife to pull her head out of her [censored]. It will be a race. I accept that neither may happen in my lifetime.

But the other part of it is what's the alternative? What would I be doing differently? Dating is about the only thing I can think of, but it's not like I've been beating the women away with a stick. Anyway, I'm still married. When I'm not married anymore, maybe I'll date, and if I find someone else and that ultimately precludes a recovery, well, so be it.

But that stuff that makes me unhappy right now? When I see my kids in pain over this? My dating isn't going to make that any better. The stuff that hurts me now would still be hurting me if I was dating and had "moved on."

To those of you in the audience who feel an urgency that I move on, I tell you that I am content with my life right now. I am doing what I want to do with it. I am trying to do the right thing, and I don't see myself looking back on this some day and thinking "what an idiot I was for trying to do the right thing."

Today is another good day. Except that I just tweaked a low back muscle again and it hurts a lot.

Thanks, James, and P.

You've come a long way, James.


Thanks for the advice. The SCQ has really been decent to me in terms of settlement and custody. She's not vindictive or trying to hurt me, and I haven't really given her a reason to do so. I'm aware that the POSOM is a real dirtbag, though, and I think that he is calling the shots, so I'm trying to be careful.


This is true--I no longer miss her. When I think about it, though, I can summon up the feelings I had when the two of us were still in love, and I would like to feel that way again. I remember the comfortable efficiency of our marriage, that we were a good team. That we think about things in the same way (even at the mediation, this was apparent to me).

If the SCQ were to want to come back to the marriage the way some of the FWS's on this site have done so, I am confident that it would be enough. It would be nice to at least give it a shot.

Very nicely said! I feel the same way about my former marriage. I do miss my wife. We had a great marriage for many, many years.

I never want or need to see or speak to Wayzilla again.

Boy, I miss that too. I miss, mostly, the throw back your head in laughter; the comfort and the ease with which comingled. It was really nice. Harumph! Oh, well. Whadya gonna do?

Me too. The laughter that made tears run down your cheeks and left you gasping for breath and holding your sides. That was all the time. That was not very long ago.

I hope I can someday laugh like that again.