I’m discouraged and frustrated right now. I can’t afford $195 out of my pocked every time I need counseling from Jennifer. I have good insurance but I’ve gotten the run around trying to see a Christian counselor who supports the MB principles. I feel like I’m ready for plan B but I got frustrated when I tried to solicit help with my plan B letter.

Step Daughter’s Grandmother called the house looking for my wife the other day. I gave her my wife’s cell number and found out that SD’s dad is in the hospital. Later I send my WW a text message to see if the grandmother got in touch with her. She called me and we had a short conversation, and about 5 minutes after I hung up I felt real disgusted with her. She’s just a real ugly person on the inside. She said she can’t wait for her daughter’s father to die and didn’t return any phone calls to her daughter’s grandmother. Then she had the nerve to ask me for a copy of the auto insurance so she can get a license plate for the car that her dad gave her. Then some more crap about getting her throat cut... I’m to the point where I’m thoroughly disgusted after any conversation I have with her no matter how short or trivial it is. Everything that comes out of her mouth speaks volumes about her lack of moral character and that’s what really disgusts me.

I talked to one of the men from my church about this and he suggested one of the counselors from church. He’s going to introduce him to me tomorrow.

My step daughter came over today. I enjoy getting to visit with her. She’s a good kid.

Hey Amazin,

Sorry for the down day.

As one Navy man to another...why don't you just jettison her?

When you use words like disgust, it makes me wonder what's left of your feelings for her.

Going back to read your story...

L2F

I have hope that she'll make a change. I don't know why I haven't let her go. I really need to go to plan B to save what little love I have left for her.

Honestly, if she wants the father of her daughter to die, it's not just that she is wayward, it's that she is just a bad person. I don't stop in on your thread much anymore because I'm disgusted that you are wasting time on this woman. At least go to plan B. I'm sure this woman was nice and charming when you met her, but her true stripes are showing. Have you even told her that you know she is cheating, or are you just going to let her tell you that you cut her throat some more?

Amazin,

Dude...You need to get away from this mess...NOW...

If you have anything left and want to fight for her, then get a dark Plan B in place before you want to kill her.

You aren't in plan anything but plan DOORMAT right now. You give; she takes and stomps on whatever you have given...

Determination will not save your marriage.

She is in free-fall but you have a parachute. It can't save you both, just one. You can stop your own fall into divorce or hers, but not both. Somebody has to hit bottom and if it is you then your marriage is over. Unless you save yourself and any love you might have left for her at this point you have no chance...That's as in zero, zip, zilch, nada...NO WAY...If you were to start recovery right this minute, you would last about an hour and then we'd be reading about you in the paper with a statement from your lawyer about mental anguish being what sent you over the edge.

Right now you are bobbing about in the waves and unless you get yourself to safety, you will end up as some piece of flotsam washed up on a beach somewhere.

Plan B is not plan abandonment, but a real specific step to take if you are still holding onto hope for your marriage. It is a tool to use. Unless you use it, the job will not get doen.

Mark

Point taken Mark.

I've wanted to go into plan B for several weeks now. I'm frustrated because of the advice I've been getting on my plan B letter. I originally wanted to expose and have her get the plan B letter on the same day. Most people have been telling me that plan B shouldn’t be combined with exposure and that my plan B letter should possibly be the last love letter she’ll be getting from me.

Soooooo.... to solve this problem I’m going to expose, do a short plan A... Maybe two weeks and then go into plan B.

I started exposing to her family. I told her mom and her dad today what was going on. They were polite but I’m not expecting much help from them. I can tell they don’t want to be in the middle.

Hey bud! Sorry you are so down...now brace yourself as I open up a can of the butt-whoop!

Just kidding, of course, but I do agree with everything that Mark and the others are saying. It takes a minute to get everything ready for Plan B anyways, so start planning while exposing to all who can help end the A.

I don't know how much of a Plan A you can do when you are dealing with someone who is this far gone. She sounds very heartless...may be just the wayward state of mind, dunno. Has she always been this cold? Sometimes we see a certain version of our spouse that we love, and then once we are separated from that person, we can look at the whole picture and say "WTH was I thinking--this person is a MONSTER!"

Is that what is happening here, or are you convinced that it is all due to the WW mindset, and that somewhere in there is the woman you fell in love with? If that is the case, EXPOSE, put your armor on, completely ignore everything she says, do your best Plan A for a couple weeks and then go dark. That should be your plan, although you CAN stay in Plan A a little longer if you start to see cracks. But, honestly, someone who is wishing death on her daughter's father is, well, YIKES!!!

Not to mention, you are sounding pretty DONE with the whole thing already! Ask yourself this question...if she turned completely around tomorrow, would you want to do the hard work of recovery? Chances are there is still much more pain in store for you if you continue in limbo any longer!

So take the first steps and get behind the wheel. This is your life, too, and you have the right to be happy!

I called WW and she didn't answer. I'm sure it’s because he's there.

Then she called me. Probably went outside and called so he wouldn't hear. I told her I knew about her boyfriend. She said 'so’. We talked for 45 minutes to an hour. We haven’t talked that much in a long time. She said she just wants me to let her go so she can live her own life. I told her that I’m not trying to manipulate her into coming back to the marriage and that I’m not going back to the way it was. I told her I wanted a new marriage with her. She said that she isn’t ready for that and has no desire to work on the marriage. She said she wants an amicable divorce so that we don’t hate each other later and so that maybe later we could be friends. I told her that if we got a divorce I wouldn’t even be able to look at her let alone be friends.

She said a lot of stuff, and I think I got her off balance. I told her that I was very hurt and that I found it very disrespectful of her to let her boyfriend drive the car that I’m still making payments on for her. She came up with an excuse that was ridicules. She said she’s letting him drive it so it doesn’t get sugar in the tank again. I basically told her that was ridicules and that the reason he was driving it was so that she could continue to try and deceive me. And that it wasn’t working.

She asked me if I was going to give her a divorce or if we were going to have to have an ugly divorce. Again I told her I wasn’t ready to get a divorce. She said she doesn’t see any way that we could ever get back together. That she doesn’t trust me!!! Isn’t that some foggy BULL SH*T. Like I’m the one who can’t be trusted. I admitted to the mistakes I’ve made...And there are plenty of them.... But I didn’t have an affair and I didn’t put a gun to her head and force her to have one.

By the end of the conversation she said something like...why don’t we get a divorce and then maybe later we might get back together...

WTF??? Hello.... If go through with a divorce I’m done.... not going to try again with her.


My internet connection is kind of spotty right now... It always gets that way when it rains... So if I don't respond right away ... that's why...

Interesting, I just read about another BS whose WS said the same thing to her. This is definitely going into the script list! Isn't it unreal how WSs always say that the BS cannot be trusted?? Trusted to what? Forgive? Change? Not turn into a wayward monster like they have?

I think you threw her off as well! "SO" seriously...that's what she said?!! "SO"!!!

Yep--Plan B time. At least you had the talk with her. I hope you were able to remain calm (I know I wouldn't be able to--you BSs all amaze me!). If so, expose to whomever else you can, and then go dark. I agree with giving it a couple weeks after exposure, though. As I said in my post above, if you do decide to hang in for a couple more good Plan A weeks, you must completly ignore her and just do what you can. She will be all over the place, and you have to know that she doesn't have a good grip on reality right now. Still living in the fantasy. Make sure she know her window of opportunity is closing every day she continues to disrespect you and your M.

You did a great job with the "let's just be friends and why can't you let me go and have a nicey divorce" bullchit. Let me give you some links that you may or may not have read...they are worth the read!!

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

Orchid's Reverse Babble

Mark's Musings for Newbies

Hang in there, Amazin...

Amazin....

I am so sorry you are going throught this hard time....TRUST ME I know EXACTLY how you feel. just one question though....

How is the no smoking going through this?????????

Anyway, hang in there bud, and listen to what the vets are telling you....

Not2fun

It's almost like she has two personalities. When we first met she was a very warm loving woman. That’s the woman I fell in love with. As the marriage progressed the cold hearted b*tch began to come out more and more until it seemed to dominate and the warm loving woman was gone.

She’s always been callous toward her daughter’s father. When she broke up with him she kicked him out and he moved in right next door. She continued to have an affair right in front of his face. He got real ugly about it. Slashing tires vandalizing her stuff etc... I think there is so much hurt between them that they will never be able to forgive each other.

If there was a genuine change and she was willing to make an honest effort at our marriage... then Yes

I've always maintained that I'm not going back to the way our marriage was... I told her that last night... She said that she felt the same wasy and that She wasn't going back to the same marriage either.

I think I threw her for such a loop that's the only thing she could think of to say. "SO"


I was calm, I didn't get ugly. I'm going to try and get ahold of all her brothers and sisters today.

I don't feel like I did a good job with the nicey divorce stuff. Mainly because I hesitated ... I didn't know quiet how to answer that.

But I will say this...

After she suggested that we could get back together after a divorce, I told her that if we got a divorce I don't think I could ever look at her again. Then she seemed to make a 180 in her answer... "Well you won't have to"

Uhhh how the hell could we ever be friends if I'm never going to look at you again?

Hello!!!! Is there anybody in there?

Thanks for the links LaLa. I've read them already but I'll look at them again.

Thanks for the encouragement Not2.

This Tuesday will be 13 weeks since I had my last cigarette. I really don't need the chantix anymore. I haven't been real consistant in taking it for the last couple of weeks.

Amazin...I think you did very well with your conversation.

The things she said back are so classic that they deserve to be repeated... I've heard them too, as have many BSs here.

"she isn’t ready for that and has no desire to work on the marriage"

"she wants an amicable divorce so that we don’t hate each other later and so that maybe later we could be friends"

"she doesn’t trust me!!!"

"why don’t we get a divorce and then maybe later we might getback together..."

Nothing new here...nothing earthshattering, just standard WS babble.

I say Plan B my friend.

L2F,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm sure she's just following the script.

Then I would say, put in your ear plugs, suit up in your armor and get ready to do battle. You need to expose, which you know and have started. Read the reverse babble over and over...you know the stuff she says now...figure out your responses ahead of time so the YOU aren't caught off guard.

Is she living with the OM? Or does she have her "own place?" If she is living with him (or you strongly suspect it), make sure you expose to his side of the equation as well, as much as you can. Drag their stinking flith out into the light and prepare for her wrath. After she calms down, start hitting her with your best Plan A and RB the heck out of her when she spews her babble. Tell her you have a plan for a happier M than you had before and that you are ready to fight for it. Send her flowers, call her every day, leave little notes on her car, etc. Make sure you continue to bring up that you want your future to be with her and that your vows were for forever.

BUT...

Her first M ended the same way, though, huh? This concerns me, because this sounds like a pattern. She is caught in the "I just need to be happy, and the he11 with anyone else." I know you may have always looked away from the wreckage of her first M because of "her" account of what happened. Look back with your eyes open now...what do you see? And remember...she had a CHILD with this man (I am assuming you do not have any children together??). How she left that mess is a good indication of what her plans are in your case.

The reason I point this out is because she will be expecting the same behavior from you that her first husband displayed. Make sure you remain calm and loving for a short (and I mean SHORT) period of time, and then straight to Plan B. You are dealing with her fundamental shortcomings now, her personality flaws. This isn't about you...she doesn't know how to be happy beyond the new romance period. You cannot change her, so your best plan is to show her what she least expects from YOU and then protect yourself.

Praying for you, buddy...

Lala,

Thanks for the guidance. She has a long history. She’s a serial cheater. Go way back to the first few pages of my story and it’s there.

Here’s the short version of her first marriage. She had a child with a guy then left him. Moved out of state and moved in with another man. She went back to her home state to visit her father and then hooked up with her sons dad and got married. The out of state boyfriend found out about her being engaged and killed himself on their wedding day exactly at the time of the wedding.


That was her first husband. She hooked up with her daughter’s father before the divorce to her first husband was finalized. She never got married to him though. After about 6 years with him she had an affair on him and left him. She had an affair with a married man. I’m not sure but I think she stopped seeing her affair partner because she realized that he wouldn’t leave his wife. It wasn’t too long after it was over when I met her.

Yes I know.... Why would I want to stay married to her??? I don’t know... can’t explain it.... I just have a feeling that she really needs me and I have hope for her.

"Long story short… she found out that he died on her wedding day about a month after the marriage… She called the mother to find out where he was and she told her he was dead… Killed himself in a car crash at exactly the same time she got married… I’m sure she feels super guilty to this day…"

Apparently she didn't feel guilty enough to work on her issues. Just went merrily along leaving more havoc in her wake.

You are a nice looking, good guy. Why don't you choose someone who deserves you instead of someone who needs you?

You're so sweet Believer... I'm blushing now...and I've got a big sh*t eating grin on my face. LOL

I could just turn my back on her and start over. But for some reason I feel compelled to try with her. I'll give it some time and if she isn't capable of a change then I'll move on.


The only thing I can say about that is maybe she's afraid and doesn't want to face the emotional pain that would come with dealing with her issues. Just a guess on my part.