Jim, PrincessMeggy, SDGuy,

I hear all of you loud and clear...

I'm not going to give her anything. Unfortunately there is no legal separation in this state. I talked to an attorney in December. He specializes in military divorce. I have a legal strategy and I’m going to follow it. (I’m not going to tell you exactly what it is …Just trust me…)

She must be desperate… she’s emailed me and called me numerous times… If her boyfriend can drive the car that I've been making loan payments on… then he can insure it. (It's paid off tomorrow)

I’ve done everything I can do for plan B except put the finishing touches on the plan B letter. I’m going to re-write it one more time… and make it as much of a love letter as I can. (Just like SDGuy suggested) As far as being ready for plan B….Intermediary, separate finances, drop her off the auto insurance, etc…All done…


Jim,

I appreciate you’re points … I agree with several of them. You’re prediction of my wayward wife’s future may be right on the money. I know she’s on a downward spiral… I’m not stupid (My I.Q. is well over 130) And I’m not going to let her take me down with her… But you’re not telling me anything that I don’t already know.

The difference between you and me is this…

Honor, Loyalty, Courage and Commitment…

Here are the definitions… of each… Just so you know…

Honor: A keen sense of ethical conduct. Integrity; one's word given as a guarantee of performance.

Loyalty: Unswerving in allegiance: as a: faithful in allegiance to one's lawful sovereign or government b: faithful to a private person to whom fidelity is due c: faithful to a cause, ideal, custom, institution, or product.

Courage: The value that gives us the moral and mental strength and enables one to do what is right with confidence and resolution even in the face of temptation and adversity; bravery.

Commitment a: an agreement or pledge to do something in the future; especially : an engagement to assume a financial obligation at a future date b: something pledged c: the state or an instance of being obligated or emotionally impelled <a commitment to a cause>

Think about those four things... and then look at your marriage vows.

There's an old saying from the days of iron men and wooden ships... "A rat is the first one to abandon a sinking ship." Are you a rat?


If your wife is ever diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, or if she develops Alzheimer’s disease would you follow the advice you just gave me? Why then could you possibly expect me to follow that same advice because my wife has a different disease?

She is an alcoholic who suddenly stopped drinking and substituted one destructive addictive behavior for another. In my humble opinion she’s been on a dry drunk for 6 months and needs help. Part of that help is tough love on my part. I’m letting her reap the consequences of her decisions and I’m setting boundaries for myself.

Soon.... very soon I’m going to go into plan B and she’ll be completely on her own. And I will have given this problem up to God. It will be in his hands. But I’m not going to give up on her... You may call that blind or stupid ... but I call it hope.

I agree with you points, and that is why I tried to save my marriage with my wife even though we don't have any kids yet. However, your WW has a long track record of this behavior from previous relationships and is acting much more abusive than many other WWs. If my WW had cheated before or treated me as poorly as yours, I'd probably be divorced right now.

Trust me, if you look at my posts, I'm usually a "try and save the marriage" kind of guy, even if there are no kids involved.

Let do that Jim... let’s look at some of your posts here on my thread....




Here’s another...



And another....


Here’s my response to that particular post... And the exact point when I stopped listening to any of your advice.


Here’s yet another...


Gee you’ve posted here quite a bit...



And finally this one...



Jim you appear to be a very bitter man who is harboring a lot of resentment over the affair that your wife had.

I'm open to constructive criticism and I need to be hit with a 2x4 every now and then. But every one of your post’s on my thread have come across as bitter and vengeful... I have yet to see a post from you that is encouraging or uplifting... I’ve come to the conclusion that the reason you post here on my thread is to boost your ego, and make yourself feel better about the resentment you’re harboring by blasting me.

If that’s the case ... I don’t need it... I have too much crap on my plate to deal with that kind of petty Bull Sh*t.


So don’t come here and tell me that you’re a “try and save the marriage kind of guy” who’s just trying to save me from years of “agony”... Based on the posts you’ve made on my thread alone... I have a hard time believing that.

Wow, I didn't see that coming. Have you taken a look at some of my posts to other posters? Go ask MEDC. Generally, I view my role on MB as the person that tries to get BHs to stand up to their WW. So many are afraid to do anything because they are scared it will push their WW further away. It doesn't. It just brings about the end of the affair more quickly. I could have ended my WW's affair much more quickly if I would have just followed the advice that I give now. I'm trying to help BHs (and BWs) not be afraid to expose, plan B, etc.

I have gained a lot of experience here over the past few years, and I think I can tell the ones that can be saved versus the one's that can't. I was trying to tell you that you are probably wasting your energy with this WW. She exhibits all the traits of someone who will never look back. I apologize for trying to spare you any more pain.

Go look at my posts to other posters. How about BHHFSGuy who was married for 8 years, but his WW never had sex with him? I was trying to help him save his marriage. Go check out my posts to Eph525. What about Dogfood whose WW contracted herpes from her OM? I was encouraging him to continue trying. How about Jayban who left him for another man that they both worked with and then filed a false claim of abuse so that he couldn't see his daughter? I still check up on him from time to time. I helped save WaywardNoMore's marriage after his BW started cheating on him after he had sex with his secretary. I remember helping Chicagodad get tough and shut down all access to her OM, so she could finally get over her addiction to him. I was helping eyeofthestorm try and save his marriage until his WW found his posts. I remember trying to encourage LilSis through her plan A and plan B. I was angry with NeverStopTrying for not exposing to his WW's workplace and then suffering a false recovery that led to his divorce. He could have saved his marriage had he gotten tougher with his WW. I helped Maybe2Late and nc007 even when they wanted to give up (even though nc007 suffered a false recovery). Those are just a few (of HUNDREDS) off the top of my head. There was no bitterness in those posts.

Maybe the fact that I am encouraging you to divorce or have no kind words to say about your WW might make you step back and think a little bit? Maybe before you judge me, you should look at a couple thousand of my posts to other people encouraging them to save their marriages. I'll stop posting on your post because it isn't helpful for what you are trying to do.

Oh, and those comments that you quoted above were not meant for her, they were meant to provoke you into some actions because you were being WAY too soft on your WW. What was the point of not exposing earlier? You just prolonged her affair by enabling her.

Have you read my thread? Are you one of those drive-by-posters who pops in and adds their two bits without really knowing the whole story? I counseled with Jenifer and she’s the one who steered me in the direction of not exposing. I was following the advice of the professional.



Have you ever heard the expression you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar? Brow beating someone and belittling them is not the way to influence people into taking action. I don’t think you knew the whole story. Did you know that Jenifer initially told me not to expose? I doubt it.


I don’t need to. The 8 or 10 posts that you made on this thread are the ones that matter to me. And that’s enough for me to form my opinion.


Oh my God.... It’s a miracle... You can see into the future... I wish I would have found you sooner so I wouldn’t have wasted my money and time counseling with experts who actually know what they’re doing.... Could you teach the Harleys how to tell who is salvageable and who isn’t just by reading what’s posted on the message boards? That way they can tell those of us who are in a hopeless situation to run to the divorce courts and stop wasting our time here.

Or maybe since you have all the answers you could develop a test. If someone puts a check in all the right boxes then their marriage will be repairable.

Or even better yet ... a blood test... and if they’re in a fixable marriage then you could give them a little pill to make it all better.



That’s the best idea you’ve come up with so far.

I want to apologize to everyone for that last exchange between myself and Jim.

It’s one thing to hit someone with a 2x4 when they need it…. And I need one every now and then… But when someone’s post are consistently belittling or degrading …that isn’t helpful…

I know that most of you are frustrated with my situation and I want to thank all of you for your patients with me.

If you’re frustrated… then stop and think about how frustrated I am by living this. I’ve had to exercise a lot of self control over these last few months.

If you’re frustrated that I didn’t expose sooner… think about how frustrated I was when that’s the advice I got from Jennifer. Every fiber in my body wanted to expose…

If you’re frustrated that I haven’t filed for divorce… That’s the advice I got from an expert… Yes I want to be rid of this drama and filing is a natural reaction so that you can protect yourself… but I’ve restrained from that based on the legal advice I’ve received. This also adds to the mounting frustration and stress of the whole situation….

So if your frustrated with me… I understand… be patient.

Dude...that you're still in the game speaks to your character. This is almost certainly the hardest thing you will ever do, so don't feel bad if you don't get it exactly right.

You're in your own fog, trying to come to grips with this new reality your WW has forced on you. You didn't want it, but it is what is. This is hard, trying to hang onto your sanity as you go through this.

I personally think that veterans lose sight of how hard it is and get frustrated when the BS doesn't grasp what they're being told immediately (I'm talking in general here, Jim, and not about this case), when often the BS is simply not capable of comprehending what they're being told. Veterans want to spare BS's the pain of learning stuff the hard way, but sometimes they just can't. Often it takes too long for the veteran to break things down into the kinds of small pieces that BS's might be able to absorb, and their "shortcut" advice might come across wrong.

I made the same assessment that Jim did. Serial cheater with substance abuse problems. No kids. Probably not going to work out, but you can figure this out in your own time. Get into Plan B. Once you do that, things will begin to clear up for you.

Thanks SDG,

When I first got here Pepperband basically told me to let her go until she's ready to be a good mother and a good wife. I think the difference between her and Jim is this... Even though Pepper steered me toward letting her go she didn’t try and squash any hope that I had… I think that’s the big difference.


Here's what I'm talking about.





And this one...

Dear Amazing, you know my feelings about what you should do. But I'm here to support whatever you choose to do. I read your thread everyday, and am watching and praying. You are a good man, and I do want the best for you. But in the end, good, honorable men seem to come out just fine.

Amazin.....

Wow....I leave for a bit and you have some major happenings go on....

First off....CONGRADULATIONS ON THE NO SMOKING...how you are doing it through all of this is BEYOND me..I know,,,I have tried and tried..I did get the prescription for Chantix though....I just worry about my committment level to it at this point....


Second of all....good job on the exposure. I know it was hard, especially since you have waited so long, but you did what you were told in each circumstance.

Third....you are a great and AMAZIN man, who will find someone good one way or the other. The changes in you are AMAZIN (are you tired of my puns yet????). Just keep puttingyour best foot forward. And about the conversation with your WS a couple of weeks ago (sorry I am so late in replying but that was the day I left...), she didn't say anything my WS hasn't said, well except the cut her throat part. FOGSPEAK...you know this....

Lastly,.....hang in there bud, and stay with us. You know we are all here for you.....

not2fun

Thank you Believer. I know you and everyone else is screaming "Let her go" ... or..."plan B" ... It wont be much longer... And I'll put this in God's hands and I'll be in plan B.

Thank you! I think this week is 14 weeks since I quit. (Jan 30th) Try the chantix... try and quit... If you stumble get up, dust yourself off and try again.

I've been smoking for 30 years. I was smoking 2 packs a day. If I can do it you can do it.




Thanks again! I don't know who her new man is.... He's still driving my car. (Argggg) So that tells me that he's hiding this from someone else besides me... (His wife maybe?) If I could find out who he is and if he's married... I'd expose to his wife.


Funny you say that... Here's a snippet from a recent email to my wife....

There's no doubt that I'll have a happy fulfilling relationship with a beautiful wonderful loving woman ... The question is ... With who?

I HOPE it's with you. But if it isn't I'm prepared to move on...And make someone else very happy for the rest of my life.


I was going to post the whole email conversation but it's very long....

Her Bottom line: She doesn't have a drinking problem anymore, and the only reason she did have one was because of me and my kids.

What a bunch of CRAP....

I told her this...

That's so much crap I don't even want to dignify it with a response.

The difference between me and you...

Me: I'm responsible for my actions....

You: Someone else is responsible for your actions....


What a bunch of crap!

Can you say.... FOGITTY FOG FOG FOG?

You've heard this before, but get into Plan B as soon as you can.

Those email back-and-forths are killers. The WS will say or do something that triggers an emotional response from you. You react. Your body floods with adrenaline. "This is not right," you say. "It should be right. I must put it right." And so you respond.

And you won't start out LB'ing, but as the emails go back and forth, pretty soon you will be. And you'll be playing right into the WS's hands.

The #1 thing the WS needs is justification to keep doing what they're doing. On some level, they know it's wrong, but if they can come up with reasons to justify it, they can keep feeding the addiction. Whenever you LB a WS, you give them exactly what they need--they can say "Look at what you just said. I knew you were a jerk all along. You have just proved to me that we're incompatible."

Better to be in Plan B and let them eat silence.

Have you figured out yet that there is no point in trying to reason with a WS? You'd be better off trying to reason with your car. At least your car won't figure out how to hold it against you.

Yes... I've figured it out.

I really want to find out if this guy is married and expose to his wife... But I don't know if it's nessasary...

She wants the title to the car too... I'm not so sure I want to give it to her. Or if it matters...

Amazin,

I just read your original post. It's quite a story.

First, don't give her anything. No car titles, no money, nothing.

Second, I think I've found another willing-to-reconcile BH who has endured more pain and suffering than I have.

I feel for you. I hope you get what you want, and I hope you can handle it if you don't.

Oh, and find out if that guy is married, then expose. PLEASE expose.

If he's single, expose to his family, co-workers, fellow churchgoers, etc.

I'd consider it a personal favor.

You aren't sure?????

*sigh*

Please don't hand her the car, Amazin. Just don't! Not unless you have to. And if you choose not to listen, please at least drop the insurance on it...then at least you will not be responsible for him as he drives the car you paid for....

Do you know the name of the OM? Can you find out?

Amazin,

If you'd like some help digging up information about OM, let me know and we'll work it out. I received some investigating help from fellow BS's along the way, and I'll help if I can.

Krazy, Lala,

I've already dropped the insurance. I paid the car off this month.

If you guys don't think I should give her the title I won't.

I don't know the name of the OM. I might be able to find out... I need to figure out which car is his and have someone run the plates for me.

I'm open to suggestions on how to find out if he's married.

You could follow him, P.I. style, and find out where he lives.

Once you have an address, information is much easier to find. Many counties have a website that allows you to look up any piece of property within that county, including the owner(s) of that property.

You can also look them up by name, if you get the name before the address.

Once you have a name, Google can be a great tool.

Maybe I didn't explain this so well.... My wife asked her father for a car and he gave her one... Now she has two in her posession... the one I just paid off and the one her father gave her about a month ago. I talked to her father about why he gave it to her... She lied to him about why she needed one.

So she drives the car her dad gave her... her boyfriend is driving the car I just paid off from his apt to her apt after work... then driving it back to his apt in the morning and driving his car to work.

I think he's driving my car from his apt to her apt because he's still trying to keep the affair a secret from someone.

I'm pretty sure I know where he lives...It's an apartment in a complex not a single family home.

I think I know what he drives...

I'm just not 100% positive about the his car or his address.