Maybe my thinking is off here... But in alot of ways ... I just don't care about the car. It's not important to me... Yes it really pisses me off knowing that her boyfriend is driving a car that I just paid off.

Here's what's important to me...

My kids...

My retirement...

My home...


If it comes down to a divorce and she want's the car ... as long as my kids, home and retirement are in tact without any major damage... that's a good deal to me...

And I'm with you on all of that...as long as the COURTS make that decision for you. Don't give her even an inch right now...just IMO, of course!

I know I said that I would stop posting, but PUT GPS IN THE CAR. It's YOUR car in YOUR name (hence it's legal). Find out what the POS OM does when he's not around your WW.

Furthermore, I would AT LEAST tip off the cops that he is driving without insurance (you can even give them his location with the GPS) and maybe even report the car stolen when he is driving it. Make OM's life he11 for continuing this affair.

I really don't need to... I'm about 90% sure he only drives it from his apt to hers... and back...That's it.
That's why I say he's hiding... He dosn't want someone (other than me) to see his car at her apt.

If I wanted to be a total A-Hole I'd wait until he's at work... show up with a tow truck and the title.... then take it... they would never find it again...

I think she has insurance on it... Just because there was a message on my answering machine for her... from our insurance company.


Thought about it... but all it takes is a phone call from the cops to my wife... and for her to say she gave him permission. Then he's off scott free.

I'd send a letter to every apartment in that complex.


Twice.

Hey Shipmate, how are you doing?

A couple of observations:

You're not in Plan A...as evidenced by your responses to her responses...you're LBing the heck out of her, and showing her what she wants, and that's someone who fights with her, doesn't give her what she wants, and can appear mean and selfish.

Reread Pepperband's Carrot and Stick of Plan A. The carrot must be driven by your unselfish love. The stick must be wielded with impersonal detachment and emotion. We all know...YOU know...that what she says is crap, but does telling her do anything else but validate any negative feelings she has about you? It's all in how you say what you say...it's all in how you do what you do.

If it were me, since she has another car, I'd simply take the other one back. She doesn't need it. Do you know where it's parked? Do you have a spare key? Take it, it's yours. Drive it to your house, put it in the garage, put it up on blocks, take all of her stuff out of it and put it in a box and leave it on the front doorstep.

Reclaim what's yours.

I say this as someone who was in "Plan C" (confusion) for some time.

It has taken me a very long time to be able to separate out the emotions from my actions. That's the WHOLE POINT of the MB plan. WSs act from emotions and justify their actions as a result. BSs must understand this and train themselves to act according to the plan.

This doesn't mean your emotions won't go crazy, it's just a matter of channeling them constructively...write in a journal, post here, take a full bucket of ice cubes from your freezer, go outside and hurl them against the wall (very therapeutic, btw).

Then, when you've got that out...go back and take a look at your list of Plan A things to do. If your love bank is so low all you're feeling is anger and disgust at WW, then it's clearly time to go to plan B. HOWEVER, the whole idea of a well-executed plan A is to show WW how things can be, not to give her proof of why she wants to leave you...make sense?

I don't disagree with those urging plan B either. However, you've not fully established (established at all), the warm and fuzzy welcoming feeling that Plan A is supposed to leave the WS with before abruptly going to plan B.

Anyway...I'd go get the car...it would simply remove a source of anger and frustration to you. Again, she has another, so you don't need to justify it at all...perhaps you can sell it?

L2F

Amazin.....

L2F posted some GREAT STUFF (I swear if I didn't know better, it was Mimi talking here....)....

I agree about the car. Oh sure, she will be pissed, give you the whole "cut her throat" mantra, BUT by getting it, it does remove a source of resentment and anger for you...and it is YOUR car, it is not doing something wrong or revengeful....

And yes,,,,,L2F made some EXCELLENT points on Plan A....warm and fuzzy....not more justification.....

I also liked the point of Plan C....it does seem like BOTH of us are in that one....lol....

Anyway, keep your chin and chest up deary....this too SHALL pass....one way or another...

not2fun

I'm thinking that if he's married then they're separated. My wife goes over to his apt after work and on the weekends.

I thought of another possibility... my WW and the OM are hiding his car from OM #1 so he doesn't vandalized it.

I'd say I am in plan A... just not a very good one. And you're right about LBing... It's hard not to sometimes.



Help me understand why taking the car back wouldn't be a big love buster right before I go into plan B? I would think that would be the most recent memory of me while I'm in plan B... Not how I was a very loving husband...



Some days that's where I'm at...If I try and remove myself from the situation and the drama for a few days... then I'm better.

When I asked for advice about filing a joint tax return or filing separately... the advice I got was “screw your WW and file separately.”.... When I counseled with Jenifer I told her what I did and she said she would have advised me to file jointly... Probably because it was a big LB and you want to avoid that in plan A.... Just a guess on my part though...

I bring this up to explain why I question the well meaning advice I get here on the message boards sometimes.

Just to remind some of us... this is at the top of this web page...


It's unfortunate for some people here that this is the only advice that they can afford...

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything... just trying to keep things in perspective.

I didn't mean to chase you guys off or anything....LOL

OH WOW, Amazin. You know, you have been progressively more despondent over the past couple of weeks...can I ask why?

I have seen several people study and follow the program the way it was INTENDED (aka-not their OWN version of it) and have GREAT success in just the few months since I've been here. They came to the board and were given GREAT advice from people here along the way-- after reading all of the free, PROFESSIONAL info on the site, of course (which is available to EVERYONE!). Unfortunately, many do not trust the plans given here BY THE PROS above their own "superior" knowledge that THEIR situations and THEIR waywards are UNIQUE. Unique just like all the rest, that is...therefore, they refuse to work the program the way it is laid out.

Then they come to the board and ask questions. There is an array of viewpoints and opinions for sure, but I think common sense would dictate that one would seek advice first and foremost from people who have APPLIED the program with SUCCESS. Unfortunately, many of the couples who HAVE done that, have left the boards and are enjoying a renewed, loving marriage. Those that are still here helping others are a Godsend to those of us that come along desperate for help and answers. I thank GOD every day for them!

Some that remain for a long time on the board and do very little to improve their situation (just my own personal observation) seem to begin lashing out at people here- blaming them for giving them shoddy, unprofessional advice.

To me, that is extremely disrespectful to the people who take time out of their day- their LIVES, really- to follow the poster's story and offer advice...the vast majority of them only having the poster's very BEST interest at heart.

I was very upset when I read your last post, Amazin...I really, really liked you and thought you were a funny, cool guy. Maybe you are just having a bad day/week/month/whatever, but PLEASE stop taking it out on the people here who are just trying to help you.

I am not trying to be a B*TCH or anything, just trying to keep things in perspective...


PS--In re-reading this I want to say that I am in NO WAY implying that the people here who have separated or divorced because of infidelity are not good advisors...there are GREAT posters who have chosen to end their Ms and still give amazing insight and advice!

Lala,

Before I say anything... I want to say this about you. I very much respect you and the advice you give to people here. And I appreciate the advice that I’ve gotten from you.

I wasn’t trying to take anything out on anyone... Maybe I’m coming across as being an A$$ right now but that wasn’t my intention... Please forgive me if that’s how it came out.


I really, truly wasn’t trying to be ugly, disrespectful or anything else. I believe that everyone who has posted here has done so with my best interest at heart.


I do get frustrated at my situation sometimes... but I’m not trying to take that frustration out on you guys.


I think that was the point I was trying to make... You do get a lot of viewpoints here... some good, some great and some not so much... there are times when you are so inundated with advice that you have to sift through it and digest it. It’s up to the individual to choose what advice they’re going to follow. I was merely trying to point that out.

Maybe a word picture would be better here...

Sometimes the advice here is like a 5 headed snake. The body of the snake is the person who’s trying to get direction and the heads are the different pieces of advice that a person gets. It’s hard for the body to choose which head it’s going to follow...

Or a military analogy....

Sometimes the advice here is like a platoon that has 5 platoon leaders... which one do you follow?



I’m actually in a good mood tonight... so I laughed when I read that...

I'm not the smartest guy around... I had to look up despondent just to make sure I knew what it ment....

Despondent: Hopeless, low, dejected, downhearted, downcast, unhappy, sad, pessimistic, miserable, glum.

Which synonym was it you were intending to use?

I can honestly say that there are some days when all of those apply.... and others when none of them apply...

I'm in a pretty good mood today so I would say none of those are appplicable right now.

The best answer to you question that I can give would be this... Maybe I'm just ready for plan B if I'm comming across as all of those things...

P.S.

In reguards to my earlier post...I have been know to open mouth and insert foot...Unfortunately I was wearing a size 15 boot on my size 8 foot today....LOL

LOL, Amazin--I meant it as a joke...I am a sucker for sarcasm! And I have seen you come off with some real doozies, so I was hoping you would at least snicker!

And I just wanted you to see that what you wrote DID come across that way...but I am glad you explained your intent in more detail. It is hard sometimes when you are hammered with many different opinions, each poster SURE that their way is best.

I think the HARDEST part about MB is that it is counter-intuitive. When our every instinct screams "kick dat witch to the curb!!" and yet someone is saying...well, you DO have that choice, but if you want to SAVE your M, you need to fix some things about yourself first...HUH! SERIOUSLY!! You MUST be joking, right? This person just crushed my soul, and *I* need to fix some things!! WHATEVAH!

But, the beauty of Plan A/B is that when you look at them in their purest form without anger--they are really all about healing YOU! When it seems that you are enabling the wayward even more or letting them walk all over you...really, that is not the case, UNTIL you let go of your personal power and dignity. UNTIL you become so afraid of the threats of the wayward that it over-shadows your normally good judgement.

Dr. Harley realizes that many Ms cannot be saved after such a devastating blow...he has designed these plans so that the BS can protect themselves and become better people in spite of the tragedy, no matter what happens in the M.

Your WW is gone...out of the home...persuing her fantasy world with her OM. For many, an A is an aborration of character. When they/we come out of the fog, it is crippling to see the damage they/we have caused. So much so that a change can be almost instant.

For a SERIAL adulterers, there are ingrained traits that MUST be realized and then overcome by the wayward. This is a HUGE task, and the liklihood of them "seeing the light" is greatly reduced. You cannot fix her...and she IS a serial adulterer.

You have to look at your sitch from our perspective...We see a strong, good-looking (W2S agrees-we saw your pic on the photo thread..lol), intelligent man who has been a victim of a woman who seems to live her life one step ahead of the horrendous wake of misery she leaves in her path. This is not to say your sitch is hopeless, but with her gone, honestly, the only thing you have left is to protect yourself. And THAT is what we ALL want for you-- including Jim! You have to know that after being here for years, it probably IS pretty apparent to vets who will and will not make it based on the underlying story involved. How accurate are they...who knows, but I would guess it's pretty high!

And the TRUTH is that, your wife is at least indirectly responsible for another man being so devastated by her that he took his own life. Her first husband and father of her children she has wished dead as well. We are trying to get you to see that you could Plan A her till the cows come home, with very little success. Your only other option is Plan B.

I know it is frustrating when many people give you contradictory advice, but I have seen the overwhelming majority of posters on your thread AGREE that Plan B is where you should be right now. We are here to support you and encourage you to do what will ultimately benefit you the most, because WE are looking from the outside in...YOU are still enmeshed in the drama which makes it hard for you to think straight. You should pick wisely who to listen to here, but I think we are all in agreement (yourself included) that you should cast aside you FEARS and do what you need to do to HEAL!

Thank you Lala for being patient. I know how frustrated everyone must get with me.


I just saw this on my Plan B post... you said that about me going into plan b later this month.



I concur...


I'm tired... I have to get up early...I'm going to bed...

Actually you even see Steve and Jennifer give differing advice to people in the same situations..... so even the professionals differ.

Amazin,


In the Carrot and Stick, one of the basic tenets is not to enable the affair. If your WW has "given" your car to OM to use, then your letting her do so is enabling.

When you take it back, don't do it in a spiteful way...just clearly explain that since her dad has given her a car, she no longer needs the other one and you have to "change the oil", "rebuild the tranny" or whatever.

Once you have it back, it's going to be pretty darn hard for her to come up with a reason to get it back...case closed. Any reason she might give could also be a source of amusement to you...another plus!

WW may see your failure to "help her out" in this case as LB'ing, but if you provide the above reasons and do NOT get mad, defensive spiteful, she'll be pushing against air.

Taking the car back makes the A harder for them...and makes you feel better...a fair trade, I think.

That's true... Durring my first counseling session with Jennifer she said..."If you were counseling with Steve he'd tell you expose, expose expose.... I'm not going to advise you to do that yet."

Ok... I drove by my wifes Apt on the way to work this morning... His car was there... It's not the one I thought was his though...

So... I drive by his apt. My car is there... In the past my car was backed into a covered parking spot. (That makes it very hard to tow away without damaging the rear end or transmission.) Today it wasn't backed in... I could show up with a tow truck and be gone in about 5 minutes. (I don't have a key... I'd have to tow it to a dealership and have one made.)

I'm really thinking about re-posessing it...

Just thinking ... Not acting... Yet...