I agree, no more!

Hi Stanley.


By default we give ENs as we like to receive them.

You are giving Myrta YOUR EN, not hers.

Its an MB basic principle - find out what Myrtas EN priorities are and meet them instead.

Hi Bob:

Her ENs are admiration, attention, and adoration.

I suspect she interprets the incorrect gift as lack of attention from my part. But, I cannot read minds and she does not know what she wants. If she does not know----how am I suppose to know?

As usual, JL hits the nail on the head! Stan-ley, you are training her to be an ingrate by continually rewarding her for ungrateful behavior. You cheapen your gifts by doing so and that is not lost on her.

See, I think that you want admiration from her, but are going about this the wrong way. When you give her a gift she then feels OBLIGED, at the point of a gun, to show you gratitude and affection. Because she does not FEEL grateful and affectionate [the gifts do not engender that feeling in her], she RESENTS the expectation and feels manipulated. The more gifts my XH gave me, the more I RESENTED HIM. It caused me to feel DISRESPECT for him. But even more than that, I felt manipulated and patronized, like I was being bought in exchange for some affection that I did not feel.

I would have felt affection and admiration for him if I had RESPECTED HIM more. I would have respected him more if he didn't allow me to run over him and REWARD me for doing it. Giving me gifts [multitudes of African violets] did NOT inspire affection in me, it annoyed me. And I suspect it does Myrta too.

Welcome back, Stanley, its good to see you.

Wow, this sure does hit home with me, I have been both the giftee and the gifter.

I can make all kinds of excuses about how bad a gift is, or how thoughtless a holiday is, but if I make a big deal about a holiday or a gift as being the "wrong" one, it tells me I have a pretty high opinion of myself and what I feel I 'deserve'.

Do the people around me treat me the way I feel I deserve? Am I trying to control a situation where I am receiving love and attention the way I want it? And where does that leave the people around me, unspontaneous robots? I have acted very badly about gifts I have received in the past, or that I have been forgotten on Mother's Day or other days. My DH has said to me before..."You're not MY mother." Well, too bad for me...and if I hold onto this resentment and hurt, what does that get me?...more resentment and hurt and a feeling like I am justified in feeling angry, sad, betrayed towards the people around me....

HOW UTTERLY SELFISH OF ME!

And I have not felt real joy and love in my life until I've been ready to let things go, to let people be and show love to me. And when I act more loving towards them, do they act more loving towards me.

When caught in this box of "everyone owes me", she will only see what other people are doing *to* her, and not how her actions are creating an environment of loneliness.




Now as the gifter who deals with someone who is notorious about not accepting gifts, putting on a veiled front they like it...

I have chosen to give out of what I would like to give them, if they accept it or not, that is all on them, I try not to take back from them any empotions or thoughts that their acceptance or unacceptance of a gift has anythingt o do with me...meaning, their behavior after receiving a gift is all about them, and I choose to give a gift that is all about me...

My MIL is notorious for not liking a gift, or asking for something very specific...and if she doesn't get it, then she is just ho-hum about her gifts. I do NOT put myself out there and ask her if she likes something, or if she could use it...a gift is what it is, if she chooses to trash it afterwards, I don't take it to heart...

Part of this also is it is not my job to please her, I will honor her, pay attention to her, but don't go out of my way for her. if I see something that reminds me of her or I think she will like, I get it, but will not rack my brain thinking of ideas...

Hi ML:

There is a well-known story about a street beggar who works the same corner every day. Every morning around 9:00 Am a very aristocratic man passes by and gives him $5.00.

This goes on for many months and the beggar and the so-called aristocrat become quite familiar with each other. This familiarity and frequency sometimes causes the beggar to feel humbled or humiliated by the generosity of the aristocrat. And this is the onset of RESENTMENT.

One day the beggar realizes that the aristocrat is probably very wealthy and instead of being grateful for the $5.00 he gets everyday he becomes more resentful. Now the beggar dislikes his patron because he should be getting $10.00 a day rather than $5.00 a day. This is the complexity of human behavior as it relates to receiving a gift.

I know quite well my wife resents me. After many years of marriage she would call me “The Perfect One” in a very sarcastic manner because I had great parents.

In my effort to make sure my wife was someone important I made sure she managed all the money I earned. I was happy with having $20.00 in my pocket for lunch. She did all the banking and purchased everything. She hired contractors, enrolled the kid in piano lessons, arranged all vacations, etc. I was only involved in the purchase of a car or a home. She admitted she resented my involvement in these huge decisions.

In an effort to gain the admiration of her parents my wife Myrta routinely gave monetary gifts to them. I was never consulted about this and I did not care. As you can guess----Myrta’s parents resent the quantity of the monetary gifts and they would like to receive more money. This is highly unusual for folks in their late 80s.

It is hard to accept, but Myrta resents me a lot. In fact she had to resent me to give herself permission to stray.
Myrta’s parents also resent her. They would like more cash. The more money she gives them, the more they want and the more they resent her.

Human behavior can be quite bizarre!

Is this the issue of my wife?

Why do some people feel that way?

If I receive a very lavish gift I am very uncomfortable. I rather buy what I want with my own money.

If the gift is modest I still feel uneasy as I would rather get nothing.

Can you explain?

p.s. to my shame, I used to nit pick and find fault in my H's gifts so I would feel less OBLIGED to show my gratitude.

With me, it was not a matter of feeling I deserved MORE, but a matter of feeling OBLIGED to express certain feelings I did not want to express. His gift giving was basically ANNOYING behavior that amounted to huge lovebank withdrawals.

ML:

Could that be the case?


Do you think my wife does not want the gifts because she feels obligated?

Obligated to what? I don't expect much; I am not needy or high maintenance. Unless, she feels she does not deserve what she has.


Regarding your H:

I suspect there was something more than gift giving. For example I know a narcissistic manager that treats his employees like crap and then buys them expensive gifts. This confuses the employees and they develop conflicting feelings about the narcissistic boss from hell.


BTW, there is another twist to this:

In the old days if I gave my wife a very expensive gift she would be grateful, but return the gift next day because she felt it was simply too much. In other words she also has the “I don’t deserve that much side.”

You talk about being obligated to pay attention or gratitude to me. I believe this is probably not the case. When she was having the affair she still wanted me to show sexual interest in her even though she had no desire to be with me. However, she needed to know I still wanted her. It is all about the sensation of being wanted—-----it has nothing to do with her feelings for me.

How did you resolve the issue with the gifts from your H?

Yes I am. Divorce granted to WW 11-9-06. Property division judgement 3-12-08.

I have battled with the notion that I feel I am better than other people, and that I know what is best in all situations.

I would offer to you it is not that she feels unworthy (although there is an element of that deep down that started this) but that she wants to feel better than others.

You can NEVER please her because no one will ever treat her to her high expectations, that are to her, perfect...

I beleive she is sarcastically saying to you that you are perfect, because she'd like to beleive she truly has become perfect, and how dare you think otherwise...

But...in the second part of my story...this is not about her...this is about how this affects you. There is guilt and shame that you are not good enough or not doing enough for her...that you want to be a hero, and she won't let you...how can you get beyond this cycle you both have set up?

Obligated to show unfelt gratitude. My H did it to pimp some attention and admiration from me. I felt manipulated.



The "MORE" was my H's neediness. I felt like he was sucking me dry with his incessant bids for attention. The gift giving felt like more of that.



Well, that makes perfect sense. She needs to be reminded that she is desirable and admired, but maybe she doesn't want to feel OBLIGED or FORCED to show you gratitude for expensive presents.


He left me for a woman who adores his stupid African violets. And goes huntin' with him. And "ties ONE ON" drinkin' Jumbo BUDS. And chain smokes little brown cigars!

Strangely, I ADORE every present my current H gives me. He can give me something I HATED from my XH and I treasure it. The difference is that I don't feel like I am being patronized.

Hi Stan.

Yes, this is not your first post on this. I don't think it will be your last.

You know Myrta is spoiled. No need to over-analyze her. The signal has been coming through loud and clear from the beginning. Even in her posts.

But you like spoiling her. It is part of a game between the two of you.

So stop it.

JL has it right. Just stop giving her presents of any kind or at any time. She will, after a suitable withdrawal period, feel much better.

You however will have a lot longer withdrawal period. You seem to need to buy her affection in some way. Stick it though to the end and you will feel a lot better in the long run too.

Psychologists/psychiatrists have a word for it. The taking expensive gifts back thing. Can’t remember off the top of my head. But it has to do with manipulation and maintaining a superior position of power in the relationship. Has nothing to do with the actual expense.

With prayers,

yes, I know I was a b*tch. I will be the first to admit it.

Well just gotta say i've got my own little story too.

My W lost the diamond out of her engagement ring about seven years ago and was heartbroken about it.

thus, at christmas time I went out and bought her a new diamong ring to replace the old. It cost me about 20 overtime shifts to pay for it( 16 hour days).

3 years later she lost the entire diamond ring.

She never truly understood how important that ring was to me. In the meantime, she has also LOST our wedding ring from 38 years ago.

I'm at the very least puzzled!

But I don't even bother trying to figure these things out anymore.

I don't care!

All Blessings,
Jerry

edited to say, I've still got mine!

Dr Laura said the funniest thing to this lady today on her show. The lady was talking about how ungrateful and bratty she is to her boyfriend. Dr Laura said "you need someone who is man enough to put you in your place!"

That's exactly what I needed back then.

Hello Stanley,

What have you been doing with yourself these many months? I see you are back for help as this topic has come up before.

May I ask you a question?

What gives Myrta her greatest pleasures?

When is she happiest?

What makes her smile?

The answers to those questions will provide you with the answer you seek and best of all you may not even need to go to the store.

Let me tell you a little story. Mrs. G is from a large family, 10 brothers and sisters. Consequently time with her mother has always been scarce. Her father died on Christmas day in 2004 and her mother struggled. As her brothers and sisters all came to their mother’s side Mrs. G looked for ways to lend some comfort. Alas, she was a small voice in the company of her domineering siblings. So, when the time came for our Italy vacation I asked Mrs. G if she would like to extend the invite to her mother. Well, her eyes lit up at my suggestion of a selfless act (it wasn’t really) and to make a long story short, Mrs. G was able to bring her mother to St. Peter’s Square for a Sunday mass with the new Pope where she cried like a baby. It was a lifetime event for my mother-in-law and for Mrs. G too, not because of the Pope but because of what it meant to her Mom.

Mrs. G will tell anyone who asks that that trip was the best gift she has EVER received from me. Don’t tell anyone, but turned out to be quite a gift to me too. The greatest pleasures in life come from the simplest of things.

Stanley, perhaps you have already given Myrta gifts of a similar nature or perhaps you will soon. Stanley, I know how wonderful it is to give something to someone who derives great pleasure from your gesture. It makes you feel like a million bucks. When it all blows-up, well, it just doesn’t feel good.

JL’s suggestion should most certainly be considered. Myrta’s criticism of your efforts is off-base to be sure but I suspect that Myrta does not understand the nature of what her disapproval causes. I think you once told me that the Spanish can be a bit fixed in their thoughts.

You’ll get through this one Stanley.

Mr. G

Thanks to all for the kind words:

As you know I became quite upset regarding the rejection of the Mother's Day gifts. Now----all of a sudden Myrta has become quite lovy dovey. I am not sure how to explain this, but she has changed her tune and I didn't even try to sweeten my position. As JL suggested I told her that I was done with the idea of buying stuff for her.

It seems that she responds if I make a very strong point. In the past I have not done this so I did not appear to be controlling. Therefore, she is probably spoiled and that is my fault.

Admiration is everything for Myrta. I even compliment her cooking on a daily basis.

She is happy when she is seen as a sexual object by other men.

She smiles when she knows she is desired and needed.

The problem with someone that seeks admiration like that is that admiration coming from the H is not as powerful as admiration coming from a stranger.

Could that be classified as narcissistic behavior?