Hello. I agree with that 100% and suspect that is one of the biggest factors in becoming WS. How can a spouse meet that kind of EN???

Sometimes when I watch my FWW putting on makeup and I'm in the room I feel like I'm the last person she is applying it for even though we are inching forward more each day. Course, there is no way I can tell her something like that I don't think.

It cannot be done. If the wife strays it probably has to do with an intrinsic problem in that spouse. The best H in the planet cannot overcome that.


I can tell you without any doubt that most women in the planet would classify me as a great H. Nevertheless, I could not avoid the infidelity of my wife.

Since admiration is my wife's top EN - I find this discussion very interesting.



Need to think on this more before writing out some thoughts

If you examine wayward spouses you will almost always find someone that craves admiration and attention. For these folks external validation is everything.

I give my wife admiration 24/7 and I can see how she glows with every word of praise and adoration. Interestingly there is no tolerance to the admiration.

However, if the admiration comes from a source other than the H the effect is even greater.

In theory the only way these folks can avoid an affair is by avoiding any situation that can present someone that provides the admiration. Otherwise, they will sooner or later stray, the admiration is simply too powerful. Most clever OMs know this trick and they can spot a woman that falls for admiration a mile away.

The need of admiration is most certainly an emotional need that almost all of us have to some degree, even you and me. That and $3.95 will get you a Caramel Macchiato from Starbucks.


That is because admiration from our spouse is an expected response in a healthy relationship. It is taken for granted. When that admiration is confirmed by an outside source it is immediately effective and flattering. It is how that admiration is processed that makes all the difference. If Myrta acts on outside compliments by others then that is where problems can develop. Is she acting on this?


So the real trick is to learn to accept the complements of others without strings attached. I think that is very easily accomplished once it is learned that such “strings” have potentially disastrous consequences. That is the firsthand lesson that a wayward spouse learns (it is something that I learned also). Of course, some never learn that lesson but Myrta is certainly not in the category even though you remain a bit guarded (it’s OK to remain a bit guarded so long as you don’t obsess with it).

Because your wife is physically attractive others have likely complimented her on her appearance throughout her lifetime with you. There is no reason that should or will change. There is no reason why she cannot accept those compliments without putting herself in harms way. She knows “things” now that she did not know prior to her affair. What’s more, her revised value system places great importance on the marriage, on herself and on you. Like I said, she’s learned “things”. It is clear from her many months of comments that she values her integrity with you and her own self worth. Coupled with appropriate boundaries she has erected a formidable wall against the possibility of inappropriate behavior.

Mr. G

Hiya Stanley, you too Myrta if you are reading this.

My 2cents worth; could she be bored?

You have your Doc stuff, which can be all consuming.

She has a life that is a reflection of yours. Resentment?

Do . . . something . . . different

Taking her out to eat is old news. Said this before to you and that is give her your time. Hot dogs, sauerkraut and an unexpected nooner might do the trick

It seems to me that female native Spanish speakers appreciate knowing who El Jefe is

All the best - and I still remember the words of wisdom you and Myrta shared with me when I was serious walking wounded.

Larry178

Mr G:

Your words are on the money.

However, we cannot forget that the folks prone to affairs are basically addicts and any addict can fall of the wagon if the temptation is too big.

Some days Myrta comes home quite happy and smiling like crazy. Quite often this story is that some young stud was coming on too her an that sort of thing made her day.

All of us like flattery, but for some folks flattery is everything.


Larry:

I will have to see how your story ended. I left the board before your issue was resolved.

BTW, today I had a very busy day at work and forgot to call Myrta at home (as I usually do). She called me and was upset because I am neglecting her. She expects several calls a day. I don't think she is pressed for me or that she is madly in love. However, in the aftermath of the affair she has developed a sense of insecurity that is not normal. Maybe that is why she thinks badly of me if she gets the wrong present.

OK, for my anniversary I tried the minimalist approach (as suggested by everybody).

I point blank asked Myrta to tell me what she wanted. I did not want to guess anymore. I gave her one gift and nothing else. We had a nice dinner on the eve of the anniversary and stayed in a resort for the three day weekend.

We had another HUGE blowout.

Now I feel guilty for not doing more.

A good friend of mine had the same problem and now he does not do special occassions anymore because there was always a lot of resentment around those special days.

I am lost.

Hi Stanley

I had to think laterally. Squid actually does like gifts but not so much as she likes me to do domestic support ( which I despise).

So for her birthday I stripped, replastered, refinished and repainted our hall, stairs and landing. ( its a pretty big job - our hall stairs and landing are three storeys, and wide with stained glass windows and hemlock spindles) It took me a week's vacation plus three weeks of weekends and evenings. I hated it but Squid absolutely loved it.

It is easier for me to but gifts but there is no doubt that my DS meant more to Squid.

Does Myrta have a high EN that you hate to meet ?

Bob:

Women are very complicated and I am not good at deciphering the complexity of the issue. For one---------Myrta believes that it is normal to be dissatisfied. As far as she is concerned that is par for the course.

Myrta believes that I do not spend enough time in determining what is best for a special occasion. I accept that I tend to do many things at the last minute. For Myrta a gift has more meaning if I purchase the gift a month before the actual date. That shows that I have been thinking about it for a long time. If she looks at the receipt date and sees I got her a present the same day of the event she is disappointed.

Myrta pays attention to the effort I put in doing these things. For example:

For Mother’s Day I went shopping with my daughter and in one store they were giving away custom made Mother’s Day Greeting cards with a photo. So I took a photo with my daughter and wrote a message in the card telling her how great she was and how much I loved her. Initially Myrta loved the card, but them found out I got it for free. In other words, it was a very cute card, but I did not have to put much effort into it since it was the idea of the storeowner and the cards were free.

Bob:

Myrta needs to see there is effort and that would be the thing that validates the holiday. That is why gifts don’t have an effect. Going to the store and buying something seems too easy. Particularly if the store is next door to where I work. That in itself implies that it was even easier for me.

I feel I have no confidence in what I do. I would love to be able to do stuff without having someone else passing judgment on what I do.


BTW, working in the house like that would be fun for me. But Myrta does not like that sort of thing.

Stan-ley,

Have you considered that you might be married to Scarlett O Hara? A woman who is impossible to please and is constantly wanting the wrong man until she can have him, and her husband is done with her spoiled little rich girl antics...

Just a thought - Myrta may be impossible to please and you may have to just be done before she comes around - if she does.

Kayla:

My wife is a wonderful woman and she demands very little.

As I said before, she would be happy with a 10 cent gift if she perceives there was romance and a lot of attention to detail.

She is not vain and or frivolous and is a magnificent wife. The only glitch is the issue of the special occasions. That coupled with my laid back approach to these things causes a problem.

She is not materialistic or worried about the high end. She is quite simple for most other things, but this issue is quite tricky for me. In the end I see myself performing under un-natural circumstances and cannot do what I would probably want to do. Sometimes I feel I have no ideas to celebrate these specials dates.

"Have you considered that you might be married to Scarlett O Hara? A woman who is impossible to please and is constantly wanting the wrong man until she can have him, and her husband is done with her spoiled little rich girl antics..."




Nope, I am not Scarlett O Hara. I am just a regular wife-woman that would like to see some real effort from my husband to me.

We went away for the weekend, because I booked a resort so my husband could play golf with a friend of his. I booked the hotel and his "tee time" too.


We have been married for 35 years, have 5 children and 1 granddaughter.

My anniversary gift: the day before he asked me to tell him what I wanted and I told him .

He bought me 1 of the things that I wanted and I liked it.

He gave it to me unwrapped, with no card. Since we had been married I have always looked forward to a meaninful card, but that is his new thing after DD, no card at all. And it hurts me a lot. I know I am an awful [censored] that does not appreciate his wonderful gifts....but still I think I deserve a bit more than a gift that he had in his gym bag unwrapped.

I have NEVER requested expensive gifts from my husband. I Just want him to think what I would really like. Just like I do with him.

I am such a bad wife-woman, that deserves to be thrown to the curve or gutter, because I would like my husband to show some detail romance in our relationship. Yes, I do deserve that he serves me divorce papers, because I am really bad and don't appreciate all his efforts.

The fact that he came back to MB to talk about this, is really not nice. It hurt a lot to know that he came back to whine about this dumb "problem".

My EN are not hard to be met at all....I like him to stroke my hair, watch TV once in a while with me. I like him to call me, from work, yes,,,several times a day. And I do like when HE finds me attractive, I am not so vain that I am just seeking Other men to find me attractive. I want my Husband to find me desirable and I like to hear it from HIM.

You know what?

In the old days before d-day this would not have been such a big deal.

I suspect (MArEle, AKA as Myrta) feels that every time I don't pay attention I must be doing that because I am a resentful H.

The truth of the matter is that I don't think about the affair a whole lot. There was a time when the affair was on my mind, but now I can go for days and not think about it at all. In other words I have reached the so-called nirvana that many BHs seek.

I asked my wife about what she wanted for at least 7-10 days before the anniversary day and she managed to give me an answer the day before we were going away. That Friday before the three-day weekend was a very congested day on the road. I drove for 90 minutes to get her present. The present was wrapped in typical fashion by the staff of jewelry store. However, I understand it would have been more meaningful if I had purchased gift-wrapping paper, scissors, scotch tape, etc to do my own wrapping.

I am not big on cards and I usually say what I have to say using my own mouth. I will admit that my wife is the opposite and will say things in the card that she does not say person to person.

I sense that any time I am quite relaxed and calm in the marriage MarEle becomes distressed. She sees this relaxation as an indication that I don’t care for her.

Have you read The Five Love Languages? One of the love languages is receiving gifts. I think this book would help you both understand this problem.

Also, my H never likes the gifts I give him, even if I get him exactly what he told me he wanted, he finds a way to complain. I have recently discovered while talking to his sister that this is what they saw growing up. Their mom could never be satisfied, so they finally go to the point where they stopped trying and just bought her anything they felt like.

On the other side of it, my H used to buy me things and then get mad that I didn't like them, well he would buy me jewelry and I don't wear jewelry, it's just not me. So I would get mad that he didn't know me well enough to get me something I would like. I have now learned that he really truely appreciates it when I give him some suggestions. About a month befor my last birthday I mentioned that I would like an Ipod. I didn't say that I wanted it for my bday, just that it would be cool to have. Well he bought me a pink Ipod, my favorite color. He really does know me, but also needs a little help with gift ideas.

Gift giving is so hard these days because if we want something we just usually go and buy it for ourselves.

Also, our anniversary is coming up June 3rd and while I would have loved for my H to plan something romantic I know that he wouldn't and then I would be disappointed. So I am trying something different this year, I booked a day for us at a Hot Springs resort and scheduled a couples massage for us. My H is now looking forward to our anniversary instead of being stressed out about what to do and I get to enjoy exactly what I want because I booked it.

My point is that I understand both sides and I am just offering some suggestions of what has helped for my H and me. The Five Love Languages is a great book and offers some very simple yet effective ways to overcome problems such as this.

I won't pretend to have all the answers but I have learned a few things over the years about the differences between men and women. The biggest ones seem to be:

1. Men don't take hints, even when applied with a 2x4. Men only get it when it is explained to them in explicit language. Leave no detail out, no matter how obvious it may seem.

2. Women thrive off hints, alternative meanings and innuendos. Everything "means" something else no matter how obscure and unrelated.

Sorry if that sounds sexist but in my experience, and the experiences of all my friends and colleagues with whom I've had these discussions about, it is true. I remember wishing for that special "thoughtful" gift or gester that never came. I also remember leaving hints less subtle than sky writing for these things. Same thing used to happen to my mom when I was growing up. My DS who is now an adult does the EXACT SAME THING.

As for a solution, nobody I know has found a way to change this. It is what it is. But those who have put this issue behind them have given up the silly romantic notions and just spelled out LITERALLY what it is they want and been pleased to get it. And then laugh a little when you forget to mention a detail or 2 and see what he comes up with instead. It's much healthier than resentment.

But I will address this one point Stan-ley:


Here is something that you KNOW. It's actually an illustration of what I said above about obvious details not mentioned. Your W told you what she wanted, but she didn't specify this particular occassion to wrap it and get a card. So I'll explain for you: from now on, every gift you buy should be wrapped with occassion-appropriate wrapping and be accompanied by a card with a nice sentiment inside that reflects both the occassion and how you feel about her. By occassion-appropriate, I mean that birthday gifts must not be wrapped in Christmas paper, Valentines gifts should not be wrapped in Mother's day paper and so on. Same for the cards - make sure the card matches the occassion.

Clear as mud?

Hmm... do you normally take that kind of approach when trying to resolve an issue about your relationship that's troubling your H?



If you think it's "not really nice" that he came here to talk about this issue, then perhaps you should examine why is it that he found himself choosing to come here to discuss it in the first place. Did he try to discuss this particular problem with you first? What was the outcome of that discussion? Do you believe that you are making it safe for him to discuss these types of issues with you?

My wife grew up seeing the same things. In fact, my wife has experienced this form of rejection from her own mother for many years. I will also admit that it is a trait that is very common everywhere you go. It seems that many folks out there are very hard to please.

The problem is that I am one of those who is happy with anything I get. In fact, many times I would rather get nothing. I put very little weight to the impact of a gift. Nevertheless, I will admit that receiving a gift from someone that was able to read my mind can be rewarding. It is also easy to see why that is perceived as a sign of caring.

My wife is very tricky because she has no materialistic ambition of any kind. As I said she can be happy with anything quite cheap if the present meets the standard of romance.

The problem I have is that I don’t perform very well in that gift-giving scenario because I have failed many times. In other words I tend to under-perform under pressure.

That is on the money.

I suspect anything I say or do is taken as resentment for the affair. That is very far from the truth, however, that may be her perception.

Just because there are a number of things about this thread that bother me, I'm back.

First of all, I don't care what your ENs are or whether they are met more easily within or outside the M, and affair is not an option. Sure it feels good to be admired by someone other than your spouse, but flattering comments and other forms of admiration are NOT invitations to the bedroom! How is this any different than someone who likes recreation companionship so they play tennis or golf with their same-sex friend once a week? Does that entitle them to have an affair?? Absolutely NOT. Really, the only ENs that are exclusive to marriage are SF and affection. Not saying that's all that should be fulfilled by your spouse but most of the others can be and are met to some degree through other types of relationships with friends and family. We do not live in bubbles and nowhere on this or any other marriage site will you ever find advise telling you to exclusively relate ONLY to your spouse and shut yourself off from the world. No.

Stan-ley, I'm sensing some serious resentment from both you and your W. Serious resentment. Some of it is obviously fairly deep seeded and perhaps the 2 of you should seek counselling to try to resolve some of your communication issues (I'm talking here about the whole gift thing). But some of it does seem to be about the A. Stan-ley, you are perfectly entitled to feel resentment about the A. That was a terrible thing she did. Now it appears that either she is manipulating you by making you feel guilty about your resentment OR you are starting to use this as an excuse for your other problems. Or both? Whatever it is, you both have communication issues and you are both only telling one side of the story. I found it telling that you quoted the part of my post dealing with women's communication shortfalls and identified this with your W, but didn't comment on how you have essentially personified men's communication shortfalls. Are you trying to blame her? Or are you trying to twist your feelings away from affair-resentment and making this new? You guys need to figure this out. Right now I see a downward spiral that you could put a stop to.