Good job! You are facing things like a man. I'm proud of you. And do ask her to get tested. She will be angry and hurt, but it is essential.

Runnerboy. . .

It is very ok to be angry. It is very ok to be angry with her. It is very ok to vent so long as you draw a distinction between what she did and WHO she is. I often told my wife that to the best of my knowledge, I was the only human being in the universe who loved her for who she is and was, not necessarily for what she did. I told her that I saw her as a flawed human being (just like everyone else) whose worth to me was her total person, warts and all although I didn't appreciate the warts that reflected back on me. Her affair was her maturation event, too bad that I also paid the price but acceptable if in fact she really became a grownup.

Drawing a contrast between your wife as a total human being, your mate and mother of your kids, and what she did when she lost her mind and committed a stark sin might help. I told my wife that she could use what happened to grow up, or allow the dark places inside most of us (except saints) to take her over, and in the later event, I wanted nothing to do with her if she really embraced the dark side. Admit you made a serious mistake and then fix it, say I. To my wife's credit, she has given 100% since then. I have no complaints other than the time it is taking me to totally get over it, if I ever do.

I also told my wife that if we couldn't have a better and safer relationship than before she lost her morals, I didn't want to move forward with anything but divorce. I told her she had to own her own garbage and it was her job to throw it out, not mine to accept. In other words, grow up or move on down the road and inflict her pain on someone else. I gave her once for ignorance, but you can't fix stupid or self centered entitlement and I am not gonna try.

So far you seem to be doing the right things. Being a leader means exactly that; leading. And you are doing that by pointing her in the right direction.

Larry

Runner,

"I could feel my blood pressure rising but somehow I bit my tongue again until I could get my emotions under control."

Yeah, there is mucho tongue biting. Hope you didn't need stitches. Sounds like if we look up Plan A in the dictionary your picture will be there.

The sour note at the end was anything but sour for you. You totally laid out the naked truth for her. Sour for her probably.

Let her vent, bite your tongue, disagree very calmly if you must, and keep up that plan A.

You can see how well that plan A is working by her reaction to it. Also makes you stop and realize how "not like that" you were before.

Also nice the OM is moving far away!

And didn't she show some contrition at the start of her conversation with the tears in her eyes? Things seem to moving forward at a pretty good clip.

That STD talk might be gruesome!!

But, because there were more women than your W involved, maybe that could be the avenue to follow. I got a feeling whatever road you take, it will beat her down lower than she wants to be.

Maybe not say "I WILL NOT HAVE SF WITH YOU UNTIL YOU GET A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH".

But more like, "Honey, you know he was with more women than you so don't you think a check up would put your/my/our mind(s) at ease?"

But you knew this already, yes?

Very hard to keep the visions out of your head. On way is to wear a rubber band on your wrist and when you mind's eye starts to go there, snap the rubber band!

Stay strong!

kirk

Your post really hit home. I don't hate her, I hate what she did. I think that in my own mind I need to try to draw a line between her as a person and her as an adulterer.

The problem is that I can do that sitting here at my desk, it's a lot harder to do when I'm face-to-face w/ her and all I can see is the 2 of them together and I go back to d-day.

I know it probably just takes time and a lot of work, but I am not a patient kind of guy. But I'm learning patience as this goes on.

I have finally resolved myself to have the STD talk with her tonight. I have put it off long enough. But honestly, it really hasn't been a big issue because since d-day, I have had almost ZERO desire for SF with her bacause just the thought of it brings back the horrible images. That isn't helping me a lot either because SF is one of my top 2 ENs and I can't imagine at this point SF not triggering back to d-day.

"Maybe not say "I WILL NOT HAVE SF WITH YOU UNTIL YOU GET A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH".

But more like, "Honey, you know he was with more women than you so don't you think a check up would put your/my/our mind(s) at ease?"


Kirk has it exactly right. As a female, the second statement would go over much better with me.

Men usually have a very hard time with reclaiming the SF part. Hopefully some of the guys on Recovery or here can support you.

Krusht:


But not down lower than she needs to be to start rebuilding her life, relationships and self esteem. You can't build a new house using parts of a flawed and faulty old foundation, can you?

Larry

I would certainly encourage you to take the latter approach.

You're in a situation that appears very hopeful. You've had some signs of remorse from your ww, which is good. She appears to be ashamed.

If she ever comes to you with true remorse you'll be somewhere that many of us BHs never get to see.

I think a heart felt apology would be welcome no matter what has happened to your marriage.

Be grateful you have that because you have something to work with.

Now Plan A a bunch!

I might be able to help you with the SF thing. Your posts struck a chord in me and I am glad that what I have had to say to you is likewise.

The TOS of this web site precludes me from saying certain things that may be of help as they would tend to be, er, candid in things sexual. Suffice it to say in an open post that there are certain male attitudes that you can adopt that might help you, starting with the possibility of conception of another kid, if you are both able.

Hokay, lemme see if I can put this into language that will pass the censors here:

Step one is to understand that you probably had her on a pedestal and she should NOT have been there anyway. She is now in broken pieces at the foot of the pedestal upon which she so undeservedly was placed by you.

Step two is to acknowledge that your real problem is that you see her as "Tainted" by another male. She was "used," which places her in another category from "wife and mother and mate."

Step three is to acknowledge that your reality was flawed. She has always had the right to be a human being and you had no real right - no matter how hard wired in your maleness it was - to see her in another light than someone who owns her own body. She has the right to give the use of her body to someone else even if under false pretenses as it was.

Step four is to look at her with new eyes, as a whole person you can have instead of just a set of holes to be used in whatever role you care to place her. The other guy was only interested in the holes, not the whole.

I suggest Conan the Barbarian. It worked for me. And I got the whole, not the hole(s), if that make sense within the context of me using oblique language instead of usual male talk

You are not going to be able to replace the image you have seared into your mind's eye until you can replace that image with new ones you create. It will be difficult, but the whole road of recovery from adultery is difficult.

For me, I got the whole, as I said, and my wife has found things to give me me she didn't know she had to give. I now believe that I have her heart in ways that she was incapable of delivering in the past and certainly not to the supposedly infatuated cretin she betrayed me with.

Larry

PS: I will put this into a convenient location for the censors, who so far haven't hit my posts, but might, ya never know. . .

Er, 50Mg of Viagra will provide the stamina to pull off the Conan deal if that is otherwise unavailable for reasons of age or whatever, or just so you make sure that no images will deter you from your task . . . The goal is to cause her walk funny - while wearing a smile and restoration of some of her self esteem, courtesy of you, which is a two edged sword if you think about it a bit.

Larry,

Your post makes perfect sense to me. I think that somewhere deep down that I understand that for me to get over this I am going to have to change myself and change how I view her and our marriage.

We were not virgins when we met, but for almost 24 years, SF was something that was ours alone. Now, it's like someone has violated a place that was sacred and once it was desecrated, it has lost some of it's value. I know that this has more to do with how I view it than with reality. But, like so many other things that I have learned in the past few weeks, the hard part is getting things from my head to my heart. I am hoping that as the rawness of this wound heals that I will be able to remove some of the emotion from my thoughts and actions and be able to truly heal myself and our marriage.

P.S. At this point another child is out of the question. I had that taken care of 10 years ago and if I ever see OM again I might take care of it for him also.

Hokay, gotta go for the day, but in reply. . .

I can see that you get it. As your wife rebuilds the new person she is going to become, I hope that you are able to see her in that light instead of as damaged goods. I would bet that she sees herself in that same light - damaged goods - to the point of 99% certain.

Romancing her at this point in time might help you both. I took my wife out on dates as we recovered. The looks my wife chose to give me during those times helped me a lot to restore my own self esteem, which is something I am sure is bothering you.

I became her hero. That helped us both.

Larry

Don't have a baby to save the marriage. That's a good saying.

I know EXACTLY how you feel in terms of desecrated ground.

I think you'll feel better after you have SF with you WW, but that is a trigger for others.

I know that having the images in your head of you WW doing things with OM may be a trigger if you are trying SF.

The road is crappy no matter what path you take.

Runnerboy65,

I've had issues with SF...first it was me not being able without thinking about the A, now it's being affected by lingering issues for both of us.

I too will have to be careful about my wording, but one thing I had to do to have SF for some time after d-day was to "have relatively unusual sex with her as though she were a performer in the adult entertainment industry".

Tranlated: F her like a porn star.

I had to attack her like an animal. Of course it wasn't against her will, but I had to use her like an inflatable doll to get through it. She thought she was wild? I was determined to make porn look like PBS. She never knew my thought process, but maybe she "got it" a little. The lovey-dovey, touchy-feely, making love stuff was put on hold entirely for awhile. In my head, she had to earn that.

Any remaining "OM cooties" were snuffed out by extraordinary temperatures caused by elevated friction levels. I did so much to her during hysterical bonding that her mom felt it.

Ok, you get the point.

rb65,

I agree with what Larry is telling you, and just wanted to offer a suggestion that helped us, when we started "dating" right after DDay.

I don't know if this is your type of thing or not, but we found dates to Comedy Clubs GREAT for us. You have all of these feelings bottled up inside ... you feel like you could explode at any moment, ... and your WW likely feels like "road kill" about right now. At the Comedy Club, you don't have to "converse" with each other, you can just exchange "knowing" glances with each other, PLUS you get the added bonus of a good "belly laugh" or two, which will do wonders towards easing some of those hostile feelings you are having. It also gives your WW a chance to laugh a little, and see you hanging with her in a light hearted atmosphere, which you likely haven't experienced since DDay.

Pick the headlining comedian wisely ... stay away from the more vulgar sexual humor for obvious reasons.

Also, if the comedy club went well, then you have a great lead in for a coffee, late dinner or night cap together after the show where you get to actually talk with each other when your both in a good mood.

None of this is EASY, but this is one "shortcut" that helped us out.

PS: I don't think I've posted to you yet, but wanted to say how much I admire your strength and composure. You may not feel strong or composed right now, but other BH's recognize how much "testicular fortitude" it takes to discover their WW's A like you did, put a stop to it, and start rebuilding like you have. You have my full respect, sir.

Krazy mentions something you're likely going to feel once SF resumes.

Probably a normal BH response.

rb65,

Please pay particular attention to Krazy's post to you above. Read it again and again, until you "get" where he's coming from ... I've not seen it explained like he has, but its PRICELESS!!!

It's all about RECLAMATION!!!

I just hope I didn't offend anyone. My W had fun, no doubt about it.

Plus, I always figured if I had been the cheater, I'd be lucky if my BW had to "F me like a porn star". Many men in healthy marriages have tried everything under the sun to get their wives to do just that.

Myrevelation,

I believe the proper spelling is "WRECKLAMATION".

Krazy,

That actually brought a smile to my face and I totally get it. It’s kind of like taking your aggression out in a much more therapeutic way than punching the wall and we both get some level of enjoyment out of it. Besides, when you go at it that hard, the body pulls so much blood to your privates that your brain can’t function at a level capable of memory recall. It could be the happiest 20 seconds I’ve had in a while.

My Rev,
Thanks for the encouragement. The comedy club date is actually a really good idea. We used to go to comedy clubs all the time before the kids came along. I’ll have to look into that for maybe Friday night. If nothing else, it may take our minds off of everything for a few hours.

You should seriously consider punching things as well...hysterical bonding can end at any time, and it seems to happen suddenly. Like hitting a brick wall at 150 mph. You'll have to go from wrecking one bag to wrecking another, so to speak.

Someone (I forget who) on this site suggested buying a heavy bag and a pair of boxing gloves. For quite a bit less than $200, it's well worth the investment.

rb65,

I HIGHLY recommend the comedy club date night. Your WW seems to be starting to see something special in you ... she feels like [censored] about herself and wonders why you are hanging with her.

This will give you the PERFECT opportunity to remind her of what it was that originally attracted her to you and she will leave the club feeling better about herself, simply by "laughing".

We did this "date night" regularly right after DDay, and we ALWAYS BOTH felt better afterwards.

Here's what worked for us ... pick out a favorite restaurant within walking distance of the comedy club (dinner can be before or after depending on your show time) ... order the tickets online and have them waiting at the club. Then on Friday morning as you're leaving for work, SURPRISE her and tell her you're going out tonight, tell her to put on her (your favorite outfit) and be ready by X:00 o'clock ... tell her "I'll take care of the rest. We've had a rough time lately, and I just want to have a "fun & relaxing" evening alone with my W ... we could use it. Will you go out with me on those terms?"

Then, go out and show her how a REAL MAN treats a LADY. She won't see herself that way, but YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT RELATIONSHIP STUFF ANYWAY. You're just going out to have fun ... and believe me ... YOU BOTH NEED IT.

You've not been around here that long, but you'll find that I'm very pro-BH, pro-boundaries, and pro-having FWW's own their own [censored], but you simply CAN'T do that ALL DAY/ALL THE TIME.

By having her see these glimpses of how GREAT of a guy you really are, it will allow her to accept things like new boundaries going forward that much easier. YOU get to reclaim your rightful position in her life, and SHE gets to see EXACTLY what she nearly threw away.