shinethrough~ rb mentioned the SCC story himself-- yesterday.

It does put things into perspective. As Kimmy said, there are worse things to some people, than an oc-- they involve death and disease. Indeed.

MyRev:

About this:


Yep.

That's all.

LG

Oh, I think its very understandable given the circumstances, but understanding it doesn't make the situation any better or the outcome any brighter.

AD, I also understand that we view this situation from polar opposite perspectives. In all honesty, I just see this as a lose/lose situation with NO potential winners, given the limited options that rb65 had available to consider, only one of which (divorce) that he could choose for himself. The remaining options were established for him without his knowledge or consent.

That passage carried me through my very darkest days, RB. I was faithful to him and he was faithful to me. He will be to you too, RB. He has your back.

I never said it did.


I am the ultimate pessimist, the glass if half empty type of person, so I understand how you view runnerboy's situation this way. If I didn't witness for myself that this type of situation doesn't have to be a lose/lose, rather a win/win, with many 'winners'-- we wouldn't have polar opposite views on the topic.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

Like most of us, RB has to deal with the hand he was dealt and make the most of the cards as best he can. He didn't ask for this. His wife and her low life boss dealt the hand. Now, unintended consequences has put RB in charge of destiny. And he seems quite able to handle it even if he doesn't like it as well he shouldn't.

Larry

I feel sorry for him!! He has to take the perverbial "Gulp or pride and self-esteem" that all betrayed spouses do to recover the relationship. Usually doing most of the work early. Now he has to take another hit to the groin and raise the product of his wifes affair, basically a living daily reminder of the OM (No fault of the Kid). But the betrayer(WW) gets to keep her marriage, financial situation, and basically getting a "Get out of Jail Free Card". Yes there may be remorse and maybe she will be haunted by the memories of betraying her husband. But it pales in comparison to what her husband has to endure. I don't know if there is anything his wife could really do to make it up to him, especially with abortion off the table(which I am not a fan of) and it appears that adoption will not be the course. I hope what happened to RAG will not happen to you, with the wayward wife leaving him and the OC later on again. You don't have to be a martyr....take some time to fully weigh all the options for once you decide there is no going back.

Ya know,

I don't know if I could do what RB seems to be deciding to do. I don't know if I could do what AD's H did, or Tigger's. I don't know that I could do what K or Pops have done. I really don't know that I have it in me, and fortunately I am likely to be tested in that manner.

What I do KNOW, is I have a profound and deep respect for these men. I have a profound respect for Kimmy this much I do KNOW.

And as odd as it may sound to most of you, I respect AD, and Tigger for what they have done on this site and with their lives.

My point??? In my opinion RB won't know if he made the right decision for years...with regard to his marriage. He will know that he did when he sees that defenseless baby and watches his kids take that child to their heart. He will know he did when he sees his children watch him change a diaper (ewwwwww!) on a child they know is not his, but will become his.


What none of us can see or know is the future of the marriage. We can know the affect a man stepping up can have on his children.

It is his to balance out and see if he can do it. But, from talking with K it seems the rewards of that little boy in his life are huge.

Less face it guys, there is NO FINANCIAL reason to have children, says the guy with three of them in college right now. ;

If it was about many things few children would be born. Having children is about sacrafice. If RB divorces his W, he could remarry and in all likelihood this woman would have children. So he would be dealing with another man's children as well.

I still contend this decisions really have to be based on how he sees this marriage in the future with regard to how happy he can be with his W, and how happy she can be with him. After all she did have an affair and most of us know that means somehow we came up short in their view.

Just thoughts.

Have a good weekend all.

JL

............ basically a living daily reminder of the OM (No fault of the Kid). But the betrayer(WW) gets to keep her marriage, financial situation, and basically getting a "Get out of Jail Free Card"................

1- i guarantee you that my dear grace is not a constant reminder of om. instead she is a blessing that has, is and will enrich my life for the rest of my days

2- that "get ouot of jail free" card isn't as all it may seem. my wife (fullhouse) has had to deal with as much and maybe more then i had given the extreme pain quilt can play on ones psychy.

once a man bonds with the baby he tends to move faster in his recovery if they are anything like myself. you gain a whole new focus on that child.

part of the recovery system for dealing with these situations is growing and changing your perspectives. and maybe it is not necessarily that you change but more like you gain a better understanding of who you are deep down inside.

if you read what rb writes about family and his approach to how he and his w will work thru this i think you will see he is not taking any proverbial "gulp of pride or self esteem". he is clearly a man who values his family and the vows he spoke to his wife way back when.

i "knew" that i would never be able to love that little girl. the delivery room was the most painful emotional day of my life. i refused to hold her and the dr/rns thought i was crazy. i refused to do the same at home for about 2 weeks. but once i held her i saw her for her a gift from God.

.............My point??? In my opinion RB won't know if he made the right decision for years...with regard to his marriage. He will know that he did when he sees that defenseless baby and watches his kids take that child to their heart. He will know he did when he sees his children watch him change a diaper (ewwwwww!) on a child they know is not his, but will become his............

JL this is so true. what i was able to learn in those 1st 2 weeks from my children simply loving the child opened my heart.

you are also correct in that this is about rb and his w being able to move in a positive direction towards recovery.

JL it is nice to read your words again. you give me way to much credit and place me in some pretty high company with K, AD, and Tigger.

last but not least ...... is the bar-b-que ready yet? have a great weekend to all

Hey Pops:


New baby smell gotcha

And THAT is a blessing. Great life story Pops. Thank you for sharing (just from me).

Larry

that is all any of us can do, no matter what we decide upon.



Perspective is everything.

Truthfully, any you naysayers can scoff and pshaw all you want, but after seeing the AGONY that my husband has gone and STILL goes through over the pain HE created in our lives....I'd rather be the betrayed than the betrayer ANY DAY.

Knowing the love and devotion that AD, Tigger and other FWW have for their families now...OI! I would never have survived it.

I may be strong to some...they've said so...

but it's small in comparison to having to hit absolute bottom, then turn around and pull yourself up while you are still in witness of the devastation you've caused...to seeing your children lose faith in you...to having all trust erased and have to build it again, brick by brick...

Hope everyone had a great holiday weekend.

It was a good weekend of fun and relaxation for our family. We enjoyed a great day of fun with our family and friends on Saturday. It felt good to just relax, laugh, and have fun. It had been a long time since I spent an entire day with no affair thoughts or talk.

Sunday was a bit of a rough day for both me and FWW. She seemed a little down all day and I could tell something wasn’t right. After church, over lunch, I asked her what was wrong and she said that being with everyone on Saturday was great, but all she could think about today was that over the next few weeks, she was going to have to tell all of these friends about what she had done. I told her that the next few months are not going to be easy for either of us but that we’ll get through it somehow. For my part, I got a good feel for the rollercoaster ride that I’m on. I spent the entire weekend going from feeling good, to having something trigger me and then being angry for the situation I’ve been forced into.

For those who disagree with my decision to recover my marriage and probably raise this OC, all I can say is that I know this is the right decision for me and my family. The easy thing for me to do would be to divorce my FWW and move on. But, I am not willing to throw away aver 21 years of marriage and 23 yrs together over one mistake, no matter how serious the mistake. We have had many years together, most of them very good, and I know that we can have many more good years together. I am not just going to lie down and take it. I have given her my conditions for recovery and she seems to be taking them seriously. We are starting MC this week, so we’ll just see how that goes.

On a more difficult note, we did begin discussing our options about this baby. Both adoption and keeping the OC are both still on the table, but I can tell by her tone of voice that she isn’t really excited about the adoption possibility. We also sat down with the kids and she told them about what she had done to our family including the pregnancy. They knew about the affair, but I think it was good for them to hear about it directly from FWW. I think it helped ease their anger by seeing just how much all of this has hurt her. She did a great job of accepting all of the blame for what she had done. For anyone that thinks she is getting off easy, you just have to look into her eyes to see how much pain she is in. In some ways, I think she is hurting more than I am at the moment. They were obviously shocked to learn of her pregnancy. She presented all of our options to them and asked that they each pray about it and share there feelings with us.

We have a long way to go. I still have times when I just want to run away. But, I am confident in the decision I have made. I was reminded in my devotion time this morning that we are all sinners. When the woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus, the crowd wanted to kill her, but Jesus said “he that is without sin, cast the first stone.” I am certainly not free from sin, so I have to be careful about casting stones. I have never cheated like FWW has done, but I have my own sins to deal with.

For those who have lived this, how did you deal with the constant triggers? Unlike most couples recovering from an affair, we are going to have a visual trigger forever. For the next nine months a pregnant wife is the trigger and after that the OC. I know that SF is going to come up in the near future and I’m not sure I’m ready to have SF with someone pregnant with someone else’s baby.

AW3,

I'm not in your shoes nor could I understand the challenge of the decision you've made, but I can respect it.

I do offer this for you to chew on, though:

If you commit to your marriage and raising this OC, then you must simply accept that the child is now a part of your life and not have it constantly hang over you and your W's head.

If you accept that you will raise this child as your own then you must do so whole heartedly. Some people here say that men choosing to do so are "fooling themselves", but I see no alternative. You must make a conscious decision and then make it a reality so you can start feeling it.

The child will be yours. You cannot refer to him/her as OMC. Dive in, make the child yours.

You will otherwise merely be an unwilling participant in your marriage with a "yes, I'm raising OC, but it's not mine".

It is an absolute acceptance that you must make if you choose to stay in your marriage or it will be a wound that never heals and will always flare up and fester.

Just my 2 cents.

This is what I meant earlier when i said fbh's w/ ocs would be of more help to you. I know pops and RAG can help you with this, as well as K if he stops by.

I think my dh has had it a little 'easier' than you, in that he's never seen xom, not even a photo. He doesn't even know his name. One of my dh's stipulations was that he didn't want to know one single thing about xom or any details about the A-- ever. He said that was the only way he believed he could move beyond it all. The only info he wanted when I was P, was to know if xom was a different race than us, so that he could prepare himself and not be shocked when the baby was born.

I can't help but think my dh was continually triggered, at least during my P, but he never uttered one word about it, if he was.

The SF was very plentiful during the P-- mostly initiated by him. It was like a honeymoon period for us. I'm not sure how he did it, or how he could even desire me at that time, but he did. Again, he had no visual, (at least not a real one), of xom, and I'm guessing that must've helped him. He also rubbed my tummy, talked to the baby, and laughed when he felt the kicks, ever bit as much as with our com.

As far as oc being a trigger, once again... dh says he only sees me in him, because he doesn't know what xom looks like. I'm tormented though, because I of course do see xom's features, but it's gotten easier over time, and really- mostly what I see when I look at ds, is ds. His individual little personality seems to transcend everything.

Thanks, AD, it's always nice to hear a perspective from the other side. I have also been greatly encouraged by reading from Pops about how much he loves his little girl and how much she is just as much his as his other kids.

I guess the good news of the day is that FWW's STD tests came back negative. One more roadblock to recovery is now removed.

Also, I had lunch today w/ DD19(Free lunch is one of the perks of working for Dad during the summer). Apparently she is the spokesperson for the other kids. It seems that they all had a discussion yesterday about their Mother's confession on Sunday. They all seem to be leaning towards wanting us to keep the baby. They have always been close and they can't imagine having a sibling out there and not having him/her in their lives. It looks like the deck is starting to get stacked against me in regards to the adoption route.

I know deep down that it is time to get past the raw emotions and really start to work on recovery. But, on the other hand, I'm scared to death because I know that I am really in uncharted territory with all of this. It makes it easier that FWW has really stepped up and taken my list of requirements for recovery and is doing her best to fulfill each one.

We had a good long talk yesterday and she answered all of my questions about the affair and I believe that she was completely honest. She is starting IC tomorrow and we are starting MC on Friday. She is fully owning this affair and not trying to blame me. She started reading SAA last night. She has confessed her affair and it's consequences to the kids and she attended church with the family for the first time since d-day on Sunday.

The last requirement that I had was that she allow me to share all of this with our Bible study group so that we could have their support during all of this. She stepped up this morning and said that she wanted to be the one to tell them when we meet next week. She has shown me a lot of positive signs, so maybe it's time for me to give her a little break. I think I'll try to just keep some of the triggers to myself and try not to make a big deal out of every bad thought I have. I have a good friend who's been thorough this(w/o the pregnancy) and he told me last week that recovery isn't something that just happens, it's something that you do.

Thanks again for everyone who has come by to offer encouragement and share their experiences both good and bad.

It sounds as if your wife is really remorseful. As you get further down the road, this will hit her even harder (you too). I'm glad to see that she is also getting IC because she's going to need it to deal with her own issues of WHY she allowed this to happened to begin with.


Even though you are working on recovery of your marriage, it is important that you don't neglect your own mental health. Sometimes these triggers (bad thoughts) can cause resentment and bitterness to build until one day you just explode spewing everything out at once. Part of your wife's job in helping you to recover is to acknowledge that you're going to have these thoughts. The trick is working through them together. You need to feel safe to express yourself just as she needs to feel safe.

This was a toughie for me in recovery. I had to learn to NOT hold them in but at the same time, NOT undo everything we'd accomplished because of AO and LB. My husband had to learn that it was okay for me to feel these things and to get them out (but in a loving peaceful way). I would say what was on my heart and he learned to just hold me and say, "I understand."

With her being pregnant, her hormones are going to be wacky enough. I don't envy you guys right now because your recovery is a double yoke with the pregnancy. It's going to take lots of prayer, lots of counseling, and lots of honest talk between the two of you.

Oh, and BTW... it does get easier as time passes.

Hi rb65,

Your good friend had sage advice for you. Choose to recover! God will honor that choice.

Say

RB,

The distance your wife has come since your post of the 15th is simply astounding!!!!

I am very happy for you.

kirk

Hey RB,

There is some good news in all of this. Want to know what it is? You get to use the same strategy that I did with my youngest. You will be ~43 when this child is born. When the child starts college, you can look him/her in the eye and explain as I did: " Here's the deal. You can take as long as you wish to get through college, it is your call. HOWEVER, after 4 years of college I will be 65, and thus probably won't be able to remember your name, thus won't be writing checks. So make your plans accordingly." He looked at me and said your joking right? I said Mother Nature doesn't joke, I will be what I will be in 4 years. My son is due to graduate on time.

RB you are so new in all of this, and there have been so many blows. I would guess this weekend was very bitter sweet for both you and your W. Both enjoying the family, the friends, the outing and wondering "is this the last one?"

I am guessing she is frieghtened to death that you might change your mind a leave. She then would never have another Memorial day as you just had. She probably has no way to express what she fears, what she hopes, and her true feelings. Frankly I don't know what she could say that would make you feel better/good. I can think of a lot of things that would make you feel worse.

You have similar problems. I doubt you have the vocabulary to truly express your mix of love/fear/anger. I don't think any of us do or would in your case.

Your decision to recover the marriage is a brave/honest/good one in my opinion. And oddly it seems to me YOU are her path to redemption in this life. She is going to need ways to make amends. She is going to have to have things she can do to make herself feel better about herself than she does. And in my mind all of those ways lead through you.

In my mind the subtle and difficult part of this for you, is that YOU are going to have to lead your family to the future you have always wanted. Yet in leading you are going to have to be vulnerable enough to allow your W to help you. Her healing and the healing of this marriage comes from both of you helping the other. Your fears she needs to know. And from your writing you fear more than anything your own failures.

"Am I strong enough?" "Will I be able to deal with this trigger or that trigger?" "Am I really a good enough husband for my W to love me and never stray again?" "AM I really a good enough man that my W can and will love me and enjoy being married to me for the rest of our lives?" She is going to have to help you with these just as you are going to have to help her through the deep and grinding remorse and guilt she does and will feel.

I am firmly convinced that any WS with a conscience pays and pays dearly for a long time. The BS never has to worry about extracting punishment because internally the WS is doing some serious punishing of their own. In fact, you will really have to help her or her remorse/guilt will destroy her.

You are early into this my friend. You have made a brave decision. Your children see things in a very different manner than either you or your W. Why? Because they have enormous confidenence in YOU as a man, as a father, as their Dad. Pay attention to them, not just to make them happy, but learn from them things that you will need to know.

As for SF, my thoughts are that she is YOUR W no matter her condition. When you are ready I think you will find YOUR W waiting for you. Don't take too long.

I hope something I have said is of help.

God Bless,

JL