RB65,

Not that you need to be told this, but remember to put your needs first. Not your wife's, not the OC's. YOURS.

If your W wants to keep the baby, fine. If your kids want your W to keep the baby, fine.

That DOES NOT mean that you have to raise it.

I wouldn't give any clue of my intentions beforehand. That would be seen as trying to force the outcome I desired, and you'd always be resented no matter what your W decides. On the other hand, if you decide to stay and you're not really committed to raising the OC, you'll likely end up being resentful.

Let her make her choice, then you make yours. I don't see this decision as a "team effort". The keep it/give it up" decision is your wife's to make, and her's alone.

That's just how I see it. You are obviously more level-headed and willing to forgive than I am.

I think in making your decision about what to do, assume that people are going to know this is an OC. I don't see how you can keep it a secret at this point. Anyone who knows about the affair is going to count back the months to figure out the date of conception. I'm sorry to say, but this would be way too juicy of a secret for people to keep to themselves.

JL you are right on so many levels.

I find that as each day passes, my anger is being replaced by fear. Sure, there are times when I think about where I’m at and the anger is still there, but mostly it’s becoming about my fear for the future. My kids look at me as the guy with all of the answers, the guy who can fix anything, the guy who can protect them from harm. But, this whole affair has shown me just how helpless I am. I don’t have all the answers. I can’t “fix” this. I can’t protect my wife and kids from everything. It’s hard for someone like me to come to terms with his vulnerability. I question whether I'm strong enough to get through this every day.

I can also see the hurt and fear in her eyes and hear it in her voice. I think that the way OM tossed her aside after d-day, was really eye-opening for her. I think she went from the adrenalin filled high of the affair to rock bottom in a short period of time, making her question her self-worth and fearing that she had lost everything. I feel like she is trying to make amends by doing whatever I ask her to do. I am trying to be conscious of this and not take advantage of the situation to make myself feel better.

The more I learn about all of this the more I realize how far we have to go and how little I really know. But, I do know that what I ultimately want is for both of us to heal and grow as individuals and as a couple. I want our marraige to be better than before and I want our kids to have 2 strong stable parents.

You were also right that this weekend was bittersweet. We had a great time, but in the back of our minds we both admitted to one another that we wondered if it would ever be like this again. The prospect of being parents again at our age and after all of these years takes a lot of adjusting. I know that my plans for the next 20 years included a lot of traveling, an empty nest, and the only baby was a grandchild way down the road. We both saw our family and friends living the life we had envisioned while we start over with a new baby.

I can just hear all of the comments now about what a cute grangchild we have. But, I'll remember that college deal. Now if I can just find some way to scare the others into finishing in 4 years.

RB,

Well I cannot tell you how to handle the OC situation because clearly I have not been there. I can tell you that I am where you will be in 20 years. And besides 20 years older ;), you will most likely feel pretty much as you do now physically. You will be ready for the youngest to graduate from college, remember the empty nest starts are 18, so that is good.

You will be a different Dad to this one than to your others because you will be older, more settled in your career. You will see thing differently this time, and probably be more active in your childs life. (Notice I said "your child"). The child will be yours sooner than you think and you will be "Dada", "Daddy", "Father" (when they are frustrated with you. ), and just "Dad" as they get older.

We know a fair number of people who have adopted and this is the progression. As you can see from AD, Tigger, Pops, and K if he comes around again, you will see the same progression.

As for the travel, you will get to do it... tee ball, soccer, sports, music, school functions, OH YA! you will travel.

But, RB, when you hit my age you will still be looking at 20 to 30 more years if not more, most if not all with good health.

My recommendations concerning your fears is that you speak of them to your W. Speak of your sense of powerlessness to your W and perhaps even your older daughter (that one is your call).

You are right you cannot "fix" this. But, you can "transform" this into something pretty spectacular and for that you will need your W's help.

RB I think it was one of the Beatles that said "Life is what happens while we are making plans." You are seeing this in spades. But, I think you will find also that your own children will help you as they get older. I think you will find that many things you fear you will be able to handle.

The key as I posted to you before is for you and your W to decide on what this marriage is going to be like from now on by determining how you will treat each other, love each other, respect each other, and help each other. I know it is easy to write these words, but this will take time and good counseling.

Oh and RB your kids are right. You are "fixing" something that you never imagined you could. You are stronger than you think my friend.

One last thought, OK! several last thoughts. First forget getting the first one through fast. They will or they won't. The last one will be trying to catch up with brothers and sisters so the age thing works then.

Finally, talk with your kids a lot. Listen to them, because my bet is they have fears as well. They have reason to doubt their mother, and that is a terrible thing for a kid to deal with even a 19 year old. You have a lot on your plate RB, but you have a good family, good friends, and I think you will learn that you have a good W. A man could do worse RB, just remember that.

God Bless,

JL

Runnerboy, I think you are making a decision that is well thought out and very courageous. I applaud you.

I also like to see you taking a very active role in setting boundaries and your needs. It will be important to take care of your needs in all of this as well. The failure to do so will see you becoming stuck in a situation where little to no attention is paid to the person here that made the biggest sacrifice. While I still think adoption is the best option for a child conceived in an extramarital affair...I must say with your attitude, this child stands a good chance of having a great life. Some of the vets around here that have been through similar situations could learn more than a little from you.

Be careful with your wife for now. While it may appear that she is reeling from the pain she caused you and the family...it could also be because she was dumped by the other male. I would hate to see you blind sided should he choose to make another appearance.

Best of luck to you.

I suspect that your wife fell out of her infatuation with an audible "thud." Talk about a reality check!!!

Now the kids and your wife are looking at you to make everything right. I guess this is one time you hafta say, simply, "I can't, all I can do is the best I can do." The reality is that your wife broke it, so it is going to take some heavy fixing on her part to make amends and repairs. From the start, I suspect she knows that and will do her best. How the kids eventually settle down with her is going to depend on your lead and how hard they see her working.

I had something nice to say this morning, but the darn post got lost, somehow. Oh well. I have thoughts that are the same as any number of folks posting to you, especially JL, who is always good for great wisdom. One of these days I have a question for JL but I am not about to post it on an open forum.

Anyway, the gist of what I said was that you are being called on to eat an elephant and the only way you can do that is one bite at a time. Seems like that is how you have been handling things and that reflects well on your maturity and judgement.

So far, you are doing as good as anyone I have ever seen on here and frankly, better than most, including me. I was a complete space cadet the first thirty days without a clue except pain.

Larry

rb glad to see that you are willing and determined to try and work thru this situation.

i think the term "fix this" is very vague. sure you may not be able to change the fact of your w being pg. BUT you certainly can have an effect on how others relate to your family by your attitude.

i found that my family and friends reacted off of my attitude. once i took the position to try and work thru our problems they all lost the "kick her to the curb" attitude and were very supportive towards both of us.

one thing i used to help me deal with the rollercoaster was music. i would listen to music that "I" felt helped me. if i was listening to theradio and tehy played something that took me to abad place i instantly changed stations. no matter whether that song was one of my favorites. just my little trick.

fortunately for me i didn't have the extreme visuals that you had in your discorvery. but i certainly understand the sf concerns. part of what helped me was that my discovery was very early in my w's pg and she was going to the gym regularly. so she was in probably the best physical shape she had been in for the last 10 years. so the sf was as AD said, better then the honeymoon. there were still some things i could not do with her and have no interest in to this day. they are some of the triggers that still haunt me a bit. don't get me wrong they are very far and few between.

on the subject of loving the baby. don't worry i think that you have shown that that will just come naturally for you. this is where my com were able to teach me so much. because some were still very young and didn't understand all the emotional stuff that we adults deal with they just saw it as mom was having another little sis. they just wanted to love her.

it's time to run off to work.

i know it may seem different standing in your shoes but from tis side you are quite well . i have no doubt that you will get thru this and that little one wil lenrich your life.

on the bright side i was 50 when our grace was born. so the way i see it you are still young.

one more thing. i am not trying to make excuses for your w's actions but i am concerned that "all the blame does not get laid on her. one important thing that i had to come to terms with was my responsibility in all this. no NOT in my w's choice of actions, but instead in what it was that i was not fullfilling in her life that allowed her to concider her actions.

ok now i'm gone, late but gone

Thanks Pops. Your success is an inspiration to someone that is just starting to walk the path you have been down. I am in awe of the way all of you guys have been here for me the past few weeks. The words of encouragement and even the 2x4's mean more than I can ever explain.

I have really been working Plan A hard the past couple of weeks. I have made a lot of deposits in the bank and mostly avoided the LB's. But this morning it was really hard to bite my tongue. The part of me that wants just a little justice really reared it's head.

FWW got a good dose of reality this morning. When I left for work, she was sick as a dog. If she didn’t remember the morning sickness from the other kids, she does now. I tried to be supportive, but it was hard. I know it sounds bad, but I couldn’t help but think that I hope she has this every morning for the next 7 ½ months to remind her of what she’s done. I didn’t say it, but I thought it.

I have managed to suppress my anger over the past few weeks, but it’s still there and it does surface occasionally. I guess I just need to make sure that I deal with the anger in a way that avoids AO’s or LB’s. But it was so very hard to hide the smirk on my face as she bowed to the porcelain god and I’m guessing it would be a LB to get caught enjoying her suffering. This is one thing that must be enjoyed in silence

I'll work on being more sympathetic before I go home.

pops,

Does your OC know that you are not the DNA dad?

Do you and your wife plan on telling the OC?

RB,

Just rememeber anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as, pain, fear, anxiety, frustration, etc. Focus on what is driving your anger (I know her actions) and you will be able to handle it.

My guess, you are hurt deeply and very frustrated that you only have two ways out of this and neither is very attractive right now. And finally you were put into this position by your W's decisions.

Tough stuff, but recovery is definitely NOT FOR SISSIES/WIMPS.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Attempting this type of complicated recovery without a coach by your side is foolish - Call the Harley's - and furthermore - attend one of their seminars

Pep

and this forum is no substitute for real coaching - we will be cheerleading - but you need a coach

sooner not later

Pep

road,,,yes grace does know her dna. her bio father lets her know it every wednesday and every other weekend.

rb here is one thing that i think may help you in getting past some of the anger. Stop referring to your w as fww, ww, wwsu or anything else. if you are going to make this work you have to drop the titles. the same goes for grace. i really hate referring to her as oc.

i am sure your w would not refer to you as the gwwtch (guy who wrecked the car husband) if that were something you had done. kwim. i am hard pressed to remember. (to many b-days under my belt i guess) but i can't remember referring to fullhouse as ww or fww. once i decided to try and make it work she was my w.

sorry but i am lmbo about bowing to the throne for the next 7 1/2 months. you are right it is probably a huge lb but the thought is a funny one.

let me tell you a little about me. I am far from a Holy roller but i do believe that Jesus was given by God to forgive us of our sins.

so back to you and your w. you said that you know you are far from perfect and that you have your own sins to deal with. my w's uncle, who is very well versed in the Scriptures explained it to me by saying that in God's eyes sin is sin. there is no difference between one or the other. murder, lieing, stealing, adultry.

another thing he told me was that affairs happen all the time. and preg from sex happens all the time. so the real issue is if i can get past my w's infidelity not the consequences of her actions. it just helped me to not place the blame on the child.

from reading you posts i can see the kindness and gentleness that you carry in your heart. and by no means do i or should anyone else mistake that kindness and gentleness for weakness.

another story from the Bible that helped me was (and i am sorry that i can't recall the Book or verse or even the exact happenings to which the event took place) but it was something about all the adults pushing the children back so they could get closer to Jesus. and HE said stop and bring the children to me.

i know there are a whole lot of hills and valleys you have to go over and through BUT let tis child come to you.

trust me I tried to fight it and it wasted about 2 months of my life and it kept me from grace for about 2 weeks of hers.

you are a good man rb. try and find a little peace everyday and before you know it you will be living 24/7 with a happy heart again.

i don't have a computer in front of me all day so if you ever want to ask me something you are welcome to call. i am on the west coast so depending on where you are allow for the time zone differences. i am available by phone from about 7am - 9:30pm most days. if you want the number just let me know.

Pops

Did you have the chance to keep the OM out of the OC's life?
If you could of kept the OM out would you have?

RB

Do you have the same opportunity. Have you discussed this with your WW?



I bring this up on how hard it is for some to recover when the WW still has contact with the OM because of the OC. More for you to talk over with your wife.

As pep said call the harleys.

road the short answer is ,, yes i did have the opportunity to keep the om out.

do i think/feel it was the right thing to do? yes and no. that answer gets a little more complicated and i will be glad to share my experience when i have a little more time to write. the reasons for both may be surprising to some.

for RIGHT NOW i believe that om is staying away from rb's w and that is the way it should be.

this IS the time that rb and his w should be working on THEIR marriage. they have at least 7 1/2 months before that decision has to be made.

om at this time will not be able to bond with the baby anyway. even if he had the notion to try. men and women differ in that area. the baby is part of the woman's body for 9 months and for men they really don't have anything to bond to until they can actually get their hands on the little critter.

don't get me wrong this is definately another huge area that has to be discussed and worked out. but not yet

good night to all. find some peace rb

RB,

Ace has a success story thread, which right now is just below yours. Once I post this it won't be. You should read the story that I have posted there. Actually go read the threads that I have bookmarked. One of them contains my very first post to this site and one of the reasons I first started posting here back in 1999. In those days there was only one section not the myriads of them that exist now.

God Bless,

JL

rb, nothing to add, but had to comment on this:


I was in CPR training yesterday and the teacher was talking about his college years. His dad told him that he would have a checkbook open for exactly four years, and after that, the checkbook was shut. So he had better be finishing in 4 years, or he'd have to pay for the rest himself. Needless to say, our teacher made it out in 4 years!

Pops,
Your post reminds of what my Pastor told me after I found out about the pregnancy. He simply reminded me that the day before I was ready to forgive my wife and move forward. At that time, I knew that she had been physical w/ OM, I knew that they had unprotected SF, and I knew that there were possible consequences to that like STD's and/or pregnancy. He then told me that nothing had changed except for the fact that one of the possible consequences was now a reality. That consequence will change the dynamics of recovery, but it shouldn't change my willingness to forgive my wife.

Because my faith plays such an important role in my life, I have spent a lot of time in Bible study and prayer since d-day. One of the things that I have been reminded of almost daily is that Jesus died to pay the price for my sin and offer me forgiveness when I didn't deserve it. It's called grace, or unmerited favor. He gave me what I needed, not what I deserved. When Jesus has forgiven me of my sins, how can I then not be willing to forgive my wife. By the way, Pops you are right In God's eyes sin is sin whether it is lying, stealing, hatred, or adultery.

JL,
Thanks for the reference to the success thead and your early postings. They were very encouraging. It has helped more than I can say to read some of the threads form beginning to recovery and see that it is possible. I still hurt every day. I am still angry every day. But, as each day passes, I feel better about the possibilty of recovery. It helps that my wife is doing everything she can to repair the damage she has done. She is doing everything that I have asked of her and more. God is giving me the strength everyday to deal with just a little bit more.

rb65,

First, let me say, that this is your life, your decisions to make, and your responsibility to live with the consequences of those decisions. All that we can do is offer a little support, advice and perspective.

I intend to make this statement, because I feel compelled to at least present an opposing viewpoint, but will then back out of your thread, since we are obviously NOW viewing this from opposite perspectives and belief systems.

It is sad for me to see a BH, who came to this forum with such great instincts and actions to be reduced to where you are now.

It appears to me that your Pastor and many of the posters here are pumping sunshine at you, but admittedly, you appear to WANT to hear that message right now.

From reading between the lines of your posts, I don't see this ending well for anyone, but your belief system seems to compel you to swallow your pride and attempt what would be unthinkable to many BH's.

I really do wish you well, and hope that I'm wrong in my assessment, as no one should have to endure what is facing you.

PEACE to you.

True.

But like it or not, whatever he CHOSE for himself, he'd HAVE to deal with it.

There are NO outs in this mess.

It is simply a matter of chosing a path with the least amount of nuclear fallout.