KAYLA ANDY-Paying off a $5k coat requires effort - especially one received with disgust.
----------------------------------------------------------

Actually, I did not received it with disgust, but with amusement. I did not tell him at the time, I did not liked it. I am saying it now, many years later.


Everybody "filters" what they want to hear. Like you now, just seeing my "not coded messages" or "mystical nonsense" that I am accussed of doing.






Set it up for him to win. Teach him - don't yell at him on how to make the needed deposits.
===========================================================

I have been for years trying to "teach him" . He refuses to change his ways or gift tantics.

This whole thread reminds me (painfully) of something that happened years ago to me.

My husband would take the kids for a ride out through the woods and fields around our house. Sometimes in the truck, motorcycle, whatever. I stayed home and got a few minutes alone. We had 3 kids in 4 years and 16 days. I was busy. And unhappy-grumpy really.

He did this pretty regularly. They always came back with something for me. It was usually wildflowers they had picked for me. They were so excited and I always said thanks and gushed over them to the kids.

Then in my unhappiness about something I would say something like
"they are such a mess" or "I can't stand the bugs" because the flowers would drop their petals quickly and sometimes they had bugs that would crawl down to the counter top or table.

And that was the last time I got wildflowers.

What a terrible thing I did. I regret my horrible attitude. I hope the kids don't remember how ungrateful I was. I know my h does (maybe not that particular incident, just my bad attitude in general).

I want to add....

when h gave me a fire hose nozzle for the end of my garden hose and a pack of hose gaskets for mothers day, I was pretty tickled!

He gives fun stuff. Stuff I'll use and that is practical, but fun too.

For Christmas he gives what he has found through the year that he loves. One year we included Eggo syrup with all the gifts we sent out because he loved the squirter top on it!

This year we included an odorcide that we found that worked really well. Everybody loves these fun gifts. My dad swears he doesn't like anything hotter that salt to eat. As h and I wandered around walmart one day guess what he spotted....HOT SALT! Guess what my dad got for Christmas???

The difference is me.

Exactly! The concept of a cunning man that is extremely charming and pays attention to detail while trying to achieve his unsavory agenda is nauseating and highly repulsive to me. Many times I feel Myrta wants me to be that kind of person and I cannot do it. I am not charming and I can be somewhat dry at times.




Quite well, in fact, the plan for the anniversary was that I would not do a whole lot. I was too tired of the continuous criticism regarding my inability to be romantic and charming. And yes, that criticism is a gigantic love buster for me. This also leads to resentment and paralysis. It is difficult to do something under duress. The pressure to perform up to OM standards is very stressful.





Yes, OM gave her stuff like $5.00 T-shirts and plastic jewelry, which she treasured and as you know refused to throw away for many months following d-day. Remember that thread?

So now I am the bad guy because I buy her stuff from Tiffany’s on a regular basis. I buy her stuff when there is no special occasion. I gave her a nice necklace the other day when she came back from a trip and she said nothing when she got it.






This is quite true. In fact, the anniversary was an unpleasant time for the 1st two years after d-day. One of the reasons I discovered the affair was that Myrta was cold and distant on our anniversary. Two days later I installed the key logger and made the discovery. D-day and the anniversary are only a couple of days apart.





Exactly! I have said the same for years, but it seems I never measure up to her standards. I also suspect she wants to feel the same way she felt with OM and that is impossible. I cannot duplicate the sensations of an illicit affair------it cannot be done.

I must repeat that Myrta is not frivolous or materialistic. I believe she seeks a sensation that is quite hard to achieve in a long-term marriage.

I also accept that I resent the idea of the anniversary and the fact that I know I will fail over and over again. That causes me to not try very hard or to act in a non-spontaneous manner.

I also believe that Myrta has a love hate relationship with me. This is a very unique trait in her family. I would not be surprised if she feels the same way about me. Every single member of Myrta’s family has a love-hate relationship with each other. So it would not be unrealistic to think that she also has that sort of relationship with me.

You said this on page 12 and only after if you asked specifically if it was the actual gift itself or how it was wrapped. It took 12 pages to tweek out the real cause of your dissatisfaction. Until then, it wasn't clear at all.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm just trying to point out that even though YOU know what you want, your message isn't getting through. This is occuring here on the board, and from Stanley's posts, it's probably occurring at home too.

Read closely all of the responses on love languages. There is some great advise in them to help this exact problem.

QUOTE-You said this on page 12 and only after if you asked specifically if it was the actual gift itself or how it was wrapped. It took 12 pages to tweek out the real cause of your dissatisfaction. Until then, it wasn't clear at all.
===========================================================

Ok, maybe it took me 12 pages here to be clear of my wants. But Stanley knows, he has known for years what will please me. I have been very clear, specific with my husband.
===============================



I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm just trying to point out that even though YOU know what you want, your message isn't getting through. This is occuring here on the board, and from Stanley's posts, it's probably occurring at home too.
====================================================================

I don't want to be argumentative either, so that's why I will not post anymore here. Because this is going NOWhere,

My husband keeps on posting the same stuff about me,my family, my sisters and the stupid OM, being a charmer.

That is quiet tiresome too.

Thanks all!

If he knew, he wouldn't be here asking precisely this question.

I want to add that this time of the year has triggered me back to the early days and I feel quite a bit of anger. I had a huge blow out on Mother’s day after I was told I failed to meet her standards. I don’t recall that much anger in the last five years, but I was completely overwhelmed and stressed out.

And now I appear to be attacking OM once again and trying to explain my wife’s behavior on the basis of her family culture. I apologize for the regression and I am sure I have love busted my wife with this.

I want all of this stuff to go way so I can be normal again. This time of the year is very stressful. Last year was no different. I guess I could go back and get another present (wrap it myself, instead of the jewelry store) with a nice card, but it would seem like an orchestrated event under duress. I really don’t know what to do.

I have to mention once again that it is difficult to perform under pressure.

RELAX!

I can't see any reason for a "do over".
It's done and can't really be re-done. It would be like chasing your tail and continuing this same exact dance. Pointless.

Stan-ley,

You have my sympathy, as it appears you are dealing with a no-win situation, where your WW is still expecting to achieve happiness through the actions of others.

I agree---one must be happy without the props from others.

Otherwise, one is a set up for disappointment.

I agree, trying to do it again will not work-----I am lost on this one.

Myrta wrote: “I do feel uncertain of my marriage!!! I need my husband to show me that he still LIKES me. I feel that he dislikes me and that’s why he makes no effort to please me in such little requests.”

I thought about these three sentences of yours, Mryta, and I wonder if you know how whiny they read. How needy you sound?

He did not divorce you after your long affair with a scumbag. He obviously still likes you. Why is that not enough proof for you? He may even still love you.

“And yes, I do consider myself a good wife to my husband. If I had been the horrible ungrateful wife that is described in this thread, he would have gone out the door many years ago, way before my Affair. He stayed with me because I have been a good wife and I have given him what he needed.”

No! See, he does love you. He does not like what you did, but he loves you. That does not seem to be enough for you though, does it.

You need to understand complaining and fighting over your own misperceptions concerning the many, many gifts Stanley gives you is as good a way to eventually push him away as was your sordid affair in the first place. You want him to eventually feel nothing for you? Keep on doing exactly what you are doing.

You want, you want, you want. Stop wanting. Be happy he still likes you today. He may wake up not liking you one of these days if you continue acting so miserably spoiled.


Stanly, this is an easy problem to solve. Mryta solves it for you right here. She wants a nice card. That’s all. No actual gift. Just a card. That is easy. Simply give her a card on whatever occasion. Cards are easy. That’s all I ever get for FWW now. Cards. I’m long done knocking myself out looking for the perfect gift. She can buy whatever she wants whenever she wants. I give her cards.

If you would like for Mryta to finally stop complaining, just give her what she says she wants. A nice card. On big occasions, give her two cards.

It is not so much a card.

I think Myrta wants an event that shows I really did my homework and work hard at creating a nice memorable occasion.

Let me explore the issue of the card:

For Mother’s day I went shopping with one of my daughters and we ended in a store that was giving away custom made cards for free. All you needed to do was take a photo and they would incorporate this into the card. My youngest daughter and I posed for the photo and this was incorporated into the card. Below the photo I wrote a loving message and it seems to be a hit on Mother’s day.

Then my daughter mentioned how these cards were free and that seemed to hit a nerve. Myrta then asked me how come I did not get a real card from the Hallmark store next door. I said I looked at them, but none were as cute as the one I got for free. Myrta then said that my daughter got her a card from Hallmark and I didn’t. This implies that I did not try hard enough and that I am careless. Furthermore, the photo card was not good enough because they were given them away for free.

Myrta then complained about all four presents I gave her and returned all of them. We had a massive blow out and I became extremely angry.

I then decided to ask Myrta what she wanted for the anniversary. I asked for an entire week and she finally told me the day before we were leaving for the resort. That was the Friday before the long three-day weekend and the traffic in DC was a parking lot everywhere. I drove for 90 minutes to the jewelry store to get one of her requests and decided I would get the other stuff later because it was quite late. I thought about getting a card later, but there was no time to do much and the traffic was unbearable. I them remember I had decided to do very little and decided that was enough.

Sheesh.

You can't win this, you know. Can't even solve it head-on.

This isn’t about anything you do or do not do. It is totally about her insecurities, her basic personality and her methods of manipulating you.

And certain bottomless needs.

I’ve been there.

It will get worse over time. You need expert help.

Would she be willing to talk to one of the Harleys with you?

With prayers,

Stanley,

My stepmother loved cards...above all else. I knew this. We all knew this. She would feel crushed when she didn't get a card for an occasion.

We knew she would be.

You know what matters to Myrta. The card. Get cards. Focus on the cards and not so much on a gift.

They are her symbol. You can get cards weeks ahead of time...no rush...no waiting for her to choose...just you and cards. Whether you believe in them or not.

You know she values them.

Sounds to me like you both have a parallel recurring issue:

Myrta (let me know if this rings any bells): To feel loved on special occasions, you want what you want, when you want it and in the way you want it.

Stanley: You want to feel appreciated, when you want it and in the way you want it.

Each of you saying, "This is what I need." Stanley wants his efforts recognized, appreciated and not criticized--he doesn't want to fail Myrta.

Reward one another lavishly with praise and appreciation (includes touch and affection)--see your daily gifts in one another...you already know what thrills one another...question yourselves for why you don't do when you don't; and when you do, why you do. Then share what you find out with each other.

And when we justify, we're lying to ourselves. Okay to say, "I knew and I didn't do." Okay to say, "I was giving to get."

So you can see and know.

In it together. Because you already are.

LA

LA,

I take it back. This isn't really about the cards, even (see Stanley’s most recent post.)

This appears to be manipulation for it's own sake. For internal reasons.

Treating the symptoms of this chronic condition is not going to cure the disease. A regimen of cards will eventually produce resistance/immunity in her too.

It’s already begun, in fact. Look at her defense. She is a good wife in all these various (unspecified) areas. Therefore, she is justified in being this way about gifts. Foggy as any active WW, IMO.

This is way more than gifts and cards and wondering if Stanley likes her. For crying out loud, he doesn’t have to like her. He has to love her. And he already does. But she does not care about that. She cares about a very confused misperception of intent behind some stupid cards.

It’s way more than cards.

With prayers,

LOVINGAnyway-

Log in again, just to thank you for one of the "most" beautiful posts in this thread, so far. Because the only thing I get is critics in how horrible I am. You on the other hand can see what BOTH of us is doing wrong. Thank you for having a dual vision of us.




QUOTE-You can get cards weeks ahead of time...no rush...no waiting for her to choose...just you and cards. Whether you believe in them or not.
==================================================================

Yes, he can get the cards weeks ahead. He always rushes at the last minute to go to Tiffany, that it is by his place of work, not miles away, like he said before. He crosses the street and he is in the store. Tiffany even encloses a little card, and is ALWAYS blank!

I don't think I am been so unreasonable because I tell him that I would like him to give me a card.

I AM Not trying to validate myself thru him and his gifts. I know my value as a woman,as a mother , as a daughter, as a sister, but not as his Wife!

I agree with Aph...it's more than the card.

How much more personal can a card be than with a picture of H and DD, and yet it falls short. Because it was FREE?

Oh my gosh....this is unreal!

I love that card, I even have it on top of dresser. It is a beautiful card.

The daughter that is with him in the card, ALSO gave me a personal card from HER. Is it too much for me to dare to ask for one personal card from my husband?

Anyways, I know, I feel, that what I am asking for is not such hard task to accomplish by a husband.

Even the women here that say that I am so awful for not appreciating, would feel hurt too.

Horrible:
1. Very unpleasant – bad, unsightly, smelly
2. Causing horror - sufficiently frightening, distressing, or shocking as to provoke horror, a crime
3. Nasty - unkind, rude, ill-behaved, ungrateful, mean

Which of these definitions are you using? 3? So stop. Just stop. You will be much happier if you change, not Stanley.

ed: Mryta, what if this is the best Stanley can do? What if he is trying his hardest, doing his level best and this is it? What then? You need to consider this. Is it worth fighting with him for the rest of your life? Is it worth a D? Or, is it worth not concerning yourself so much with such a bagatelle in the first place?