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patriot92 #2065226 05/29/08 09:45 AM
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The thing is I think you are A ZILLION TIMES more OPEN than MY HUSBAND EVER would be on a PUBLIC FORUM.

My goodness...ALL THAT..that you posted...WOW...

And we are VERY HAPPILY RECOVERED...

That's why my perspective is different than others...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #2065253 05/29/08 10:30 AM
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Pat:

Is this your White flag of surrender?

You can't SAY IT to Froz, but you can write it HERE?

Maybe, she isn't posting, but she still reads? or Might read?

Many times I have prerused you and Froz's threads and just got the sense that niether of you is willing to move an inch, or accept that the other has moved an inch.

After Dday, and after discovering MB, if I had remained the same as I was before, I would be divorced now.

If Flamingo had stayed the same as she was pre MB and Dday, we would be divorced now.

There are NO eggshells in our house. Are there issues to be dealt with? Yes. Am I careful, and more considerate? Yes. But I talk to Flamingo now. I used to walk away, bottle it up, and not talk to Flamingo. That didn't work that well. I accept Flamingo for who she is, I just tell her how I feel about something now, and so does she. We work together.

You can too. You stated that when you do MB things, your R is better. So do more MB things. Own your stuff. Froz can own hers. If you do the MB things, and try to work with her, and do it consistently, then your M will improve. You might have dynamited the fields of land between you two, by not being honest, but if you practice MB, practice MB, and practice MB, then FROZ will recognize that changed and improved behavior and respond accordingly.

And if she doesn't, then you can make a choice too.

She can own her own stuff.

LG

patriot92 #2065280 05/29/08 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by patriot92
I am not going to live in this mistake. I made a mistake, a terrible series of choices and that is that. I won't ever forget, but I am not going to live under the thumb of this mistake. I have forgiven myself for this and if that is not ok, oh well.

Pat, this is unsettling to me and I feel it's due to the last two words. "OH WELL"

They are hurtful words that echo like "WHO CARES" or like "IT'S NOBODY ELSES BUSINESS" or like "GET OVER IT". These two words remind me of the selfishness of MY wayward attitude, MY Taker.


Could this be your stumbling block?
I know if I ever said those two words to my W she would withdraw from me so very quickly.






Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Tst:

Are you picking on Pat?

OH WELL is just a slang..I'll let him speak for himself but I READ that he doesn't know what else he can say...

The man poured his heart out..

I'm not getting this...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
patriot92 #2065289 05/29/08 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by patriot92
I think that reading these ……..
I have seen high school like ……………

I think MB is a plan for life, but ……….
I think these infidelity forums are………………
I think it becomes very………..
I think of all the times ………….
I think about all the time…………
The fact is that I…………
I have learned some things……….

Thats how I see it……..
I think there is plenty of value here………..
I think it is sometimes…………….

Pat,

I'm not slamming you. But I am wondering if you can see this is how you begin much of what you have to say???

A lot of "I THINK" statements or "I KNOW" statements.
These statements do not make you vulnerable, they are actually statements to educate the listener......

I'm curious if this is your communication style with Frozen???








Recovery began 10/07;

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TST:

How do YOU know how Frozen wants him to communicate?

Frozen might prefer a different style than your wife does.

Those statements sound FINE to ME.

I LOVE for my H to share what he is THINKING...

He's so BRILLIANT..it's usually AWESOME..

He has a difficult time talking about his FEELINGS and that's OK with me..

HIS ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN HIS WORDS ABOUT HIS FEELINGS...

He's not a touchy-feely kinda guy and will tell you so..and feels OK about that and I do too...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #2065296 05/29/08 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mimi_here
Tst:

Are you picking on Pat?

NO





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I don't know, TST.

You seem to be coming out of YOUR OWN frame of reference.

Are you ACCEPTING that PAT could be DIFFERENT?

There's lots of folks who are not psychologically-minded.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #2065301 05/29/08 11:44 AM
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Goodness MIMI,

Pat's been around these boards for well over 3 years, I think he is keen enough to know I am not picking a fight.





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I didn't say you were picking a fight.

I was encouraging YOU to take a look at yourself.

I'm not understanding what you are doing or saying.

My question is to YOU.

Of course, YOU don't have to answer.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #2065307 05/29/08 11:48 AM
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Ok. I did ask if you are PICKING ON him?

Better stated, I'm not getting where you are coming from.

Maybe Pat does.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
patriot92 #2065311 05/29/08 11:52 AM
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Hey, Patriot...

Here's some stuff I think you already know...reminders I saw, 'k?

Quote
I ruined that… so those idea no longer work. If I call now and inform her of where I am at, it does no good because I could be lying… as I had in the past.

Do it anyway.

Do transparency for you. As you mentioned, hard not to look for an outcome...so focus on your actions.

Fear of intimacy is real, it's common, and it's persistent.

Act anyway.

Each time you hear in your head "Won't do any good; does no good" take that as a signal of where your focus is...where you have no control. Do what you do because of your own code, anyway.

I believe you want an intimate marriage.

Know and hold your fear and act intimately. Teaches your fear that's old, outdated...that you already are safe. Fear decreases.

You make your experience...choose your intent. You intend SF to be intimate, sharing, loving, representing appreciation, acceptance...whatever it is to you...then know it and state it. Will aid you in amending the past...within your control.

You are emotional...you may make yourself unavailable. Choose to see that as ACTING from your fear, not your love. You are a loving individual, made from love...learning to act from it is what we all learn to do and often struggle with.

Don't choose eggshells...more reactivity from fear. Respect and trust Froz...and yourself. Work on your own self-forgiveness, as well...because you have a lot of amends to your self to do...acting from intimacy is a great way to get there, to your own healing, too.

When you practice acting from love...for instance, when you feel distant or disconnected from Froz...reach out with your hand...touch hers...even if you aren't feeling connected...and you will feel connected again. Close. Together. Allies.

And about baggage...we work ours out side by side...and we do it together. Part of the respect package...doesn't mean you take out anything on her...if that's an urge, then get the signal that means you're seeing her as the cause...which can be overlap, from long ago. Correct your perspective. Talk about it with her...share.

A constant threat to our fear of intimacy is to be forgiven so much...hard to contain...to understand and grasp...to be loved anyway can feel terrifying. Understand that we can't deserve forgiveness...and we can experience it, anyway.

Gift of life.

LA

mimi_here #2065313 05/29/08 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mimi_here
I LOVE for my H to share what he is THINKING...

He's so BRILLIANT..it's usually AWESOME..

He has a difficult time talking about his FEELINGS and that's OK with me..

HIS ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN HIS WORDS ABOUT HIS FEELINGS...

He's not a touchy-feely kinda guy and will tell you so..and feels OK about that and I do too...

MIMI,

It is obvious to me that you have an AWSOME marriage today. And I draw strength from you because of this.

It is also obvious to me that Pat's is still broken and I believe HE started this thread for discussion and help.
Sooo, I'm asking questions......





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Mimi,
You are a fiery sort and I like you. I appreciate your support.

tst,

Quote
These statements do not make you vulnerable, they are actually statements to educate the listener......

ah... something to learn. I will tell you exactly what 'I think'(pun intended)

I thought they DID make me vulnerable. It is information about me. Insight into my beliefs. Insight into how I think. ANd further, it is solely about the one person on whom I am expert... me. Instead of me trying to guess at someone elses motives, desires or meanings, am I only talking about me. The person I can control. The person that I have to live with no matter what happens. Me. The discussion is about what is inside my boundaries... so because I was talking about it, YES, I thought I was being vulnerable. Giving away information about me. It certainly seemed much more protecting of me to simply keep the cards close to the vest...but I didn't... I thought.

So you assert that they do NOT make me vulnerable. Great! What would? What statements would? How would you word a statement in order to be vulnerable? I made my argumnet above for my way. Maybe all this time I have done it all wrong. Trust me, this would not be the first time that happened.

If the way I am talking is not a vulnerable method, I am totally not seeing it.

patriot92 #2065326 05/29/08 12:03 PM
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mimi,
I hope I say this as softly as possible. I really appreciate your support and I think a lot of you, but I don't feel attacked here and I feel safe enough to speak up. Again, I really appreciate your support. I hope you are doing really well. I think I will be ok 'fighting' with tst... lol.

please take care of yourself and tell your husband hi from some random guy from the internet. smile

patriot92 #2065328 05/29/08 12:04 PM
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I've GAINED my POV from reading TONY ROBBINS, BTW.."Awaken the Giant Within" and "Unlimited Power"..

Tony teaches learning to respect each others different WAYS OF BEING..different COMMUNICATION STYLES..all of us are UNIQUE...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #2065332 05/29/08 12:06 PM
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I'll leave it to you, Pat..CARRY ON..

This is bothering ME for some reason...

Not sure why...

I guess your way sounds a lot like my H's..

Perhaps better in fact...

I mean, I couldn't IMAGINE him posting on a FORUM..

WOW, I admire and respect THAT VULNERABILITY about YOU...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #2065342 05/29/08 12:20 PM
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Mimi,

It sounds like you are taking Pat's plight PERSONALLY. No need. He's posting, and he seems like he's up to the questions.

I agree with LG, and LA on this. I don't need to get into anybody's pysche. Do the MB principles, as best YOU can, regardless of what your partner is doing. You are doing them for yourself as well as your mate. You both benefit.

Unless you are a sociopath, these plans should work for your marriage, even with/without PA tendencies and behaviors, so long as you choose to do them day to day, minute to minute. You can work on yourself simultaneously. IMO, it's all about going thru the motions, until the feelings emerge, and then continuing thru the motions to KEEP thos feelings.

I'm not talking about Frozen here, I'm talking to Patriot about what Patriot can do. I don't have time to psychoanalyze Patriot, and I'm not knowledgeable to do that. I am a BS, who knows what she would want from her WS in order to trust again, and live in the now, as opposed to the past. Alot of O&H, feelign the fear and doing it anyway.








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Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by patriot92
I think that reading these ……..
I have seen high school like ……………

I think MB is a plan for life, but ……….
I think these infidelity forums are………………
I think it becomes very………..
I think of all the times ………….
I think about all the time…………
The fact is that I…………
I have learned some things……….

Thats how I see it……..
I think there is plenty of value here………..
I think it is sometimes…………….

Pat,

I'm not slamming you. But I am wondering if you can see this is how you begin much of what you have to say???

A lot of "I THINK" statements or "I KNOW" statements.
These statements do not make you vulnerable, they are actually statements to educate the listener......

I'm curious if this is your communication style with Frozen???

Maybe i am wrong here but i think that is what Patriot should be doing (using "I" statements instead of "you" statements) isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Still_Crazy
Maybe i am wrong here but i think that is what Patriot should be doing (using "I" statements instead of "you" statements) isn't it?

Yes, I agree that "I" statements are better than "you" statements.


Let me clarify (hopefully) what I was attempting to say;

For me, when I am trying to be vulnerable with my wife, "I FEEL" statements help more than "I think" in these conversation.

One of the LB's I was frequently quilty of with my wife was "DJ's", in the form of educating her, by using "I think" or "I know" type of statements..... Not tring to say this is an issue for Pat, but I was curious about his style and if Pat ever noticed this in his marriage.













Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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