Is this for mothers day we are talking about?

Is it too much for you to dare ask for more than one card from your HUSBAND for mothers day?

um, yes it is pretty darn unreasonable!

Aphelion

Thanks for the definition of Horrible.

Yup, it is.

I guess it is also unreasonable to ask for a card for Our Anniversary.

All those Hallmark stores should go out of business.

They are not needed!

Your daughter gave you her own personal card for MOTHERS DAY.
You are not your husbands mother. He doesn't owe you anything...but he did give you a card which you claim to adore, BUT....which cancels out everything else.

How can he feel appreciated for the card if you say "thanks, but you could have done better" ? All you want is a card, except this time, you wanted 2 cards? How can he know that?

According to Stanley, you received a gift and a card on every one of those occasions. Just not the card you wanted.

Actually, the card isn't the problem either.

The problem is you perceive/imagine his intent and dedication wanting.

Let’s be accurate, shall we.

Myrta:

Do you remember how frustrated you get when you cannot please your mom? No matter how hard you try?

I know I am laid back and quite often do everything the last minute. I don't plan very well. You are a thousand times better at planning these things. For years I bought your Xmas present of Dec 24. In fact it became a personal tradition for me.

Myrta, I work all week and going shopping after work is a HUGE shore for me.

OTOH, walking to a store that is right next to the office at lunchtime is a blessing for me. I don't shop there to LB you. I simply like their stuff and sooner than later you end up liking everything I get there. In fact, the track record for this store is quite good regarding your rate of returning GIFTS. As far as I know you have only retuned a couple of things from this store. OTOH, you generally return 95% of the other stuff I give you.

I cannot win this battle.

So what is one to do?

Surrender!

Nope He NEVER gives me a card anymore, since DD.


QUOTE-According to Stanley, you received a gift and a card on every one of those occasions. Just not the card you wanted.

Stanley

Our distances will become wider and wider.....

Aph,

As I said, I experienced this same thing with my stepmother.

She's dead...and I have her many boxes of cards from a lifetime. I even have the unopened Thanksgiving card which came while we were planning her services.

Harley says to speak of what gives us feelings of being loved and valued. It's a perception. We are already loved and valued.

He says to share those with our partner...here's my thing...for to not say, to hold resentment, to pretend isn't O&H.

In this covenant of love, we reaffirm our commitment...here is what you've said makes you feel loved, appreciated, respected and accepted. I got it. I trust you to tell me if it changes.

Then I choose to do or not do them. Sometimes, I don't agree...feel put upon or that my actions are futile. I feel manipulated...forgetting this is my highest priority, what I signed up for knowing you and you knowing me.

Sometimes, I get in my own way.

There's no bad guy here...neither one are wrong.

Stanley didn't do the thing he knew she wanted most. He came upon the Mother's Day setting...and knows Myrta prizes that card and photo...and that she showed delight and appreciation. Later, he perceived she discounted it ALL because it wasn't costly.

Think he's telling the truth or Myrta? How about they are both sharing their truth...he DOES feel discounted...and he DOES discount.

So does Myrta.

Not manipulation...O&H isn't all happy bows and clouds...we all know that...just reveals the heart of the matter...

Stanley to Myrta "I hurt when I think you doubt my love for you. I like who you are."

Myrta to Stanley "I know you know this is my thing, my symbol. I fear when you do the opposite that you are disapproving and discounting...and it feels like you're doing it to me."

I could never convince my stepmother that this symbol imprisoned her as well as gave her happiness. That it narrowed the funnel into her love bank...had to be certain cards, arriving early, and multiple ones...for all occasions throughout the year.

What she want, when she wanted it, in the way she wanted it.

Seemed at times like I had nothing to do with the process...that she didn't want me...just a dependable resource for cards.

And I learned that middle ground...the two extremes--gratitude for knowing her love language, loving acts (not playing the guessing game, not being told or shared with, Aph)...and knowing I could end our relationship for not doing those acts. My choice. (I'm not exaggerating the ending part...I was disowned for an entire year for not sending a Christmas card and calling instead.)

She identified and KNEW the loving act she could feel through to her bones. She told everyone what it was...her thing.

Is it any different, really, than someone who feels cared for when their spouse puts a napkin under their glass when they forget? Or being given a kiss goodbye in the middle of chaos, pressure and disruption? Just that the kiss come every morning, no matter what?

Would Myrta affirming consistently, "I see you did this and I see it as a gift to me today, of love. Thank you" be manipulating? Or O&H?

My stepmother passed on at 80 years old...her card requirement never wore out, didn't gross less or more...remained her symbol...her certainty.

Not about justifying giving to get, though I understand you heard it...and it's a trap we all fall back into, repeatedly...what I heard most was that Myrta is fluent in the love language of gifts...and it isn't Stanley's language...can he also see gifts of time, touch, presence, tiny acts of service and big ones as the language she speaks, also?

Can she see his acts of service, words of affirmation, his touch and affection as gifts, too? All of them? Value MORE when he does, though resistant, he does, anyway?

Sure. They have and do see...and then, not see them...not even realize we stopped looking...until we wipe off the buildup...see it for what it is...because you both know each other deeply and well...and maybe there's a final healing issue at work here, Stanley and Myrta...of forgiveness...how it's daily, for what we do and what we don't...and for what comes to pass and what doesn't...also acts of love. We reconcile often in marriage. Repeatedly.

What is "like" to Myrta? For me, it's "I know you enjoy me, what I say and who I am"...what is that for you, Aph? Did it hit a school-age thing in you, sound immature, like passing a note?

What if we pursue that thought, that Stanley has to like Myrta, he loves her...isn't that awfully close to, "He has to love me...sure wish he couldn't help but like me"?

Both sound to me like they want the exact same thing..."I wanna celebrate and be celebrated." They will get there...most of the time, they already do this...it's the weight and breadth of special occasions (thank goodness the many, many days in between those), trips them up.

He knows what pushes her buttons...comes from all the years together...and she knows what pushes his...which is why NOT pushing them, understanding and admitting our urge to do so (often linked to "you can't tell me what to do"), and share when we don't give into that urge, too.

Honesty is the antidote for control...up the honesty, lessen the fears...odd formula for humans...works wonders.

LA

I just dredged through this entire thread.

The two of you really need to go back into MC. You both have massive communication issues when dealing with each other. You both display a large amount of insecurity in your spouse's opinion of you, and the state of your marriage as it stands right now. I see a TON of passive agressive behavior mixed in all through here as well.

Seriously...rather than sit here and beat the snot out of each other both in person and on this forum...get a neutral third party who can really help the two of you sort through this and get it fixed before it escalates into something that can kill your love for each other.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you're not going to resolve this on your own, and this forum can't hold either of you accountable enough to help you both make the changes you need.

Have you discussed MC recently to sort through all of this? Did the two of you go through MC before to help deal with things?

Is OM still visiting Myrtas mother as a treasured guest ?

No he is not!

He has been out of the picture for over a year. There is no problem with the [censored]!

Out of our lives !

Stanley, is this true? D-Day was four, count ‘em, 4 years ago and OM didn’t stop sniffing around your doors until a year ago?

Arrrgh. Someone needs to enlighten that scumbag.

No wonder you feel insecure. I would be pissed no end!

And no wonder you feel you cannot entertain certain romantic gestures towards Myrta that even remotely look like the way he would act. I understand completely.

Myrta, you may need to prepare to accept Stanley's aversion to even appearing to act romantically like your OM did as an unavoidable the-rest-of-Stanley’s-life consequence of your adultery. You have conditioned him as thoroughly as if you are Pavlov and he a golden retriever.

I re-recommend you both call the MB counseling center.

For your info:

OM shows the classic traits of a stalker.

Following D-day he methodically befriended every member of Myrta's family. Myrta's mom adores the OM, but has no clue about the affair. Myrta's dad feels OM is a rat. However, all other family members like OM a lot. OM got a job for Myrta's nephew.

OM stalked Myrta every time she visited her mother. Because OM works in law enforcement he always knew when Myrta was on an airplane. I assume Myrta was flagged and all OM had to do was check the police headquarters computer.

Myrta visited her mom one year ago and OM knew her entire airplane itinerary. Because of this presumed surveillance Myrta was detained at the airport many times before she cleared security. They had to make calls and be extra careful with her.

On one occasion OM bought airplane tickets on the same returning flight when Myrta was returning home from visiting her mother. OM knew on which flight she was on as well as the destination. He intercepted Myrta at the airport terminal beyond the security gate and knew they would be a two hour layover in Miami so they could talk things over.

Myrta was a trooper and asked him to leave. She was quite forceful in her remarks and OM did not board the plane with her. In this regard Myrta has been great. I believe she truly understands the personality of this man quite well.

That is why I say "beware of someone that seem to be too charming".

Good for you, Myrta on evicting the OM from your life!

As for the feedback. I know you didn't come here to get help with the issue between you and your husband; but he did. And he is sincere in seeking that help. He seems truly bewildered as to how to please you.

Since you're here, and you seem to desire to stay married, even if you don't want our feedback on how you can improve the situation, as long as you choose to read, I can only hope you will read it and something might touch your heart that YOU can do something to help this situation.

Please soften your heart toward your husband with regard to gift giving.

The moment I found ways to lighten up on Kasey, my biggest emotional need at the time changed to one he could more easily meet.

My husband may not ever earn 150k per year; but then again he just might. But there would be no way he'd earn it with me complaining again about another bill collector calling, or something I wanted to do that we couldn't afford. And that's kind of like what you're doing with the cards, the wrapping paper, etc.

Understand this - I don't intend my feedback to be hurtful to you and for you to respond to sincere support as you have today with anger and defensiveness means you're festering on some kind of issue that would be much more healthy released. Please consider the feedback given throughout the day - especially the one about getting marriage counseling on the issue of communication to be especially critical.

Take what you like, leave the rest.

Again, have the two of you considered marriage counseling to sort out the issues you have with communication between the two of you?

I have raised the idea of counseling regarding this issue more than once.

I believe I understand what my wife Myrta is trying to say and I acknowledge to be timid with special celebrations. However, whenever Myrta tries to make her point it sounds frivolous. I know quite well it is not about frivolity. I am more concerned with the intensity of the situation. I prefer a more calm relaxed relationship.

I also have empathy for what is like to be insecure in a relationship. I was introduced to that sensation after d-day. Up to that point I had no concept about what it feels to be insecure and to have esteem issues. This sensation causes a great deal of turmoil and drives people to seek external validation.

Well, from my perspective the two of you have identified some issues that are clearly destructive in your marriage.

What you need now is a PLAN on how to deal with them. What you've been doing clearly hasn't been successful, as this thread has outlined well.

What's your "plan"...or plan to get a plan?

Stanley, I think if you called SH on your own you would benefit greatly.

Lead!

with prayers,

ed: Also, it's way past high time her parents knew. Everything.

There are many issues here and we had the same problem one year ago. I clearly remember I suggested therapy. Last year I posted under a pseudonym because I was rather embarrassed.


I think I understand the problem, however, I am unable to do what I need to do or perhaps I cannot meet the standard.

As I said in prior posts there are folks that are hard to please in some areas.

I have friends that always pick up a fight with any waiter at any restaurant at any time because they feel the service is poor. They take the so-called poor service very personally and acted highly offended. It may have to do with very high expectations, insecurity, or a need to put others down to elevate one's standing. A friend of mine says some folks need to feel important.

I was surprised to learn that there are a lot of couples that have issues with gifts at special occasions. In each instance there is almost always a combination of a somewhat insecure person and someone with great self esteem. As Mrs Wondering said----she wishes she could be like her H.

I used to believe that low self esteem could be cured by success and achieving great heights. However, this is not always the case. Sometimes the gardener has better self-esteem than the lawyer.

I can tell you that Myrta has some self-esteem issues and they will never go away. They are quite mild, but nevertheless they are there and I can relate to that. My self-esteem was once in the toilet and it is a terrible feeling.

I am not imagining the issue of self-esteem as this is something that Myrta explored at length with the OM (I read many emails about this topic). As is generally the case a person with low self-esteem has a hard tome accepting blame for any action and there is always some sort of explanation for one's failure. OTOH, a person with great self-esteem craves criticism.

Myrta's self-esteem has gotten quite good over the years and I believe was not much on an issue pre-affair. However, I can tell you that this sort of marital disaster can lower the self-esteem of both spouses.

ON my side I have been slowly demolished by my lack of success in terms of doing the right thing in special occasions. The typical response to this lack of success is to try less to avoid further embarrassment. Therefore, I am probably guilty of trying less hard.