Just wanted to point out again that my DS19 did the same thing with me initially (I was the BS). After a few weeks of utter crazyness, he did sort it out on his own and found ways he could help me which were, well, helpful without us reversing roles. It was something he had to figure out himself, partly because I was a wreck, his father was acting like a teenager himself and partly because of his inborn desire to BE an adult. Looking back, I'm actually very proud of how he handled the circumstances. Just his wanting to "parent the parent" shows that I did raise a compassionate and caring young man who DID keep his head on his shoulders while his family broke apart.

Am I the only one still thinking there is a possibility this "OC" is Runnerboy's?!

Yes, he said he "took care" of that, but as we all know these processes resolve themselves sometimes. Runnerboy--you MUST assume it is yours until the day the DNA test proves otherwise.

RB,

I like the fact that you have had these discussions with DD19 and with your W. I like others am struggling to offer advice as to the "correct" role a daughter, although legally an adult ) should play in all of this.

Several ideas rattle around in my head. Your W involved your daughter in a way that was no appropriate when she told her of the pregnancy even before she told you. That places the daughter square in the middle of this but it was also to seek daughters support. Your daughter has been supportive and even defended your W with regard to some things such as interaction with OM. I don't think you are going to get her out of this now.

Given that, she (your daughter) needs to be educated and I would strongly urge you to let her read Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her Needs. This is good information, but more importantly she might have a better idea about what is going on between you and your W.

Another, idea is to discuss with your daughter the possibility that this will not work out. That neither you nor your W can handle the strain that having this new child in the family will cause. I am not sure this is a good idea, but she fears losing her family, but probably not for the right reasons. If she has these fears and most kids would, she should fear the right things.

The path to recovery is very narrow as you well know, but she does not know. That means that many things can crop up that will end this marriage. I would imagine the large things would be your W having the child focusing on it to the detriment of the marriage. It could mean her approach to the marriage will return to what it was before and during the affair. It could mean that you will be simply overwhelmed emotionally and not be able to stand the situation. I don't know.

You have shown yourself to be strong, well focused, and determined to honor your commitments. But, you also know that you are in fact "free" from many of those commitments due to your W's actions. You have not faced the backlash that is coming as you two progress toward recovery. It will come and there is no telling how it will affect you, or your W.

You have done well, and I do think step at a time is probably the right way to go. If you are like me and to some extent I think you are, it is hard not to look at the "whole" picture and what the next 18-20 years will bring and fear many possible outcomes.

I would tell you one thing that seems very obvious but sometimes BS often miss. Be very honest with yourself. Take your inventory regularly, not every day, but often enough so that things don't sneak up on you. We all talk about how the WS needs to be honest with BS and with themselves. But, it is very important that you are honest with yourself and not push things down that MUST be addressed. If you do this, the resentment WILL kill your marriage as sure as I am typing this. And by the same token you need to be very honest with your W about your fears, your feelings, everything. I know your tendency is to protect her especially while she is pregnant, but if you do this it may cost you what you are trying so hard to keep, your marriage.

God Bless,

JL

I don't think she was told, she went to the doctor w/ WW for moral support when she got tested for STDs, and WW came out of the room crying. I'm sure DD19 could put 2 and 2 together at that point. I don't think there was any manipulating involved.

I want to take a few seconds to clear up some of the questions.

First, there is practically no way that this child can be mine. I went to the Dr and gave a sample soon after we found out she was pregnant which indicated that the V had not reversed and I still can’t father a child.

Next, Jim is right. DD19 was with my wife when she went for STD testing. She didn’t know why my wife came out crying but, even though I haven’t asked her, I’m sure she could put 2 and 2 together and figure out what was going on. Looking back, I question if it was wise for her to go with my wife to the Dr or not. I really don’t think my wife is trying to manipulate DD19. I think she was just a willing ear for my wife to talk to about everything.

JL,
Thanks for the advice. You are exactly right. I spend so much time focused on her that I often let my needs and unresolved emotions get pushed aside. There are just so many unknowns at this point that I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around everything. I think the most important thing at this point is to just not rush things and deal with everything that comes up one issue at a time.

RB,

I agree you should take one thing at a time. But, you really do need to address your feelings and I am glad you realize this. Your W can help if she is willing, your minister can help, your friends can help, but since I am a rather private person I would guess limiting these discussions to your W and minister.

I still do think your DD19 needs to know that this will be a struggle and that the outcome is not foreordained.

There is a lot going on here, and really no one can offer you a clear path to any destination. But, RB be honest with yourself.

God Bless,

JL

boy oh boy, a guy takes off a week to pan out some dust and ride the river and all the nuggets and white water are right here at home on the computer.

rb, 1st you did the right thing in regards to bumping into om. the ppicture and sending it was definately the right thing to do.

i had a situation with my 16yo dd the other week that forced me and my w to make a hard choice. there was and still is some fallout but our choice was the right one.

don't second guess yourself so much. it does no good. you will go thru this ordeal and make choices as the situations arise. once they are made it is time to keep moving forward.

don't worry about being pulled into the new gf's h divorce. your w's A has nothing to do with that. d is between the 2 d'ing party's.

you and your w have bigger fish to fry. like how do you to stay in touch as she grows with this child ad you become more distant.

Oh, I apologize then.

If you have trouble loving this child, just remember--it is an opportunity to keep a child from growing into the #@&^@* OM that your wife used to be with. Male or female, you have the chance to make sure this child does not grow into that kind of person. After all (should all go well) YOU will be the one it calls "daddy."

Why was she even taken to THIS appointment? (no need to answer it was just a rhetorical question) I have a DD21, DD18 and DD12 and I do not take them to my dr appts no matter what I am going for. I especially would not take them if I was going in for STD testing.

I'm sure in hindsight you and your WW see the error in this and I agree she is old enough to be able to talk about everything. She will hopefully learn some very valuable lessons from all of this in the process. If I were you I would simply set some boundaries from this point forward. You seem very level-headed and in-tune with your kids, she is also probably level-headed enough to understand that she can certainly talk about whatever she wants and may actually welcome not being as involved as she had been.

LC

I dunno, she coulda just told her that it was a routine OB/GYN appointment. I have two daughters, 22 and 30 and I would think nothing of taking them with me to the doc. It actually helps pass the time in a boring waiting room and provides great opportunity for girl talk. I also go to the doc with them. To me, this is not a boundary that needs to be made.

I don't think RB's wife messed up doing this UNLESS she told DD WHY she was going.

Girls are always going places with each other for the company, for the safety, for the gossip, for whatever. I see no harm. Without question, your wife needed SOMEBODY as she made the terrifying trip to be tested for STD's. And it turned out to be even more terrifying than something that could have been cured with a shot or two. I see no plot or scheme there, just a woman who was afraid to the point of terror.

This is a perfect opportunity to sell DD on the benefits of a monogamous marriage. Give her HN_HN and SA by all means. I see no harm in her help within limits. As a life lesson and learning experience, she is gonna be a leg up on the average young female, especially given the cultural icons they all try to immulate; see the bunch who made a compact to all get pregnant in High School.

BUT, that said, it is your call and whatever you do, works.

RB, I took a path that short circuited a bunch of stuff that had to be dealt with later. I too am a fixer, so I fixed stuff. In retrospect, I would do it exactly the same later mainly because we cleared hurdles early on that DIDN'T come back to bite us. I did plateau at about 95% recovery for a looooooong time and am only up to maybe 98% now.

I still have evil thoughts

Instead of two steps forward and one step backward, I predict that you will sorta go 8 steps forward and three backward . . .

One thing you might mention to DD is that recovery takes years and there are no guarantees. Just tell her that there is no S on your chest. Tell her there isn't one on her mother's chest either and that she might go bonkers at some point in time, again, even in the face of every effort by her and everyone else to help to NOT go off in the weeds.

Likely your wife's greatest fear at this stage is that you will never recover from her choices. And she will be looking for evidence to support that fear. In effect, she will live in fear for any number of years forward. It is the nature of the deal. She might lose her will, but don't let that stop you from doing your best. It is a might be, not a guarantee to be.

I know a couple on here who had to face the wife's fears after nearly four years of recovery. But face it they did. Haven't heard from them in the past few weeks, hope all is well, it did look as if the outcome would be positive.

The emotions of an affair can take a very long time to burn out.

Larry

JL,

From the beginning of our journey towards R, through this post above to rb, you have AMAZED me with your ability to assess the very root of an issue and with the best wisdom and judgment that I've witnessed on these forums, guide people away from pitfalls and/or towards the light.

FogFree and I discussed last night this very post and how much you meant to us early on by how you "connected" with each of us in your own unique way. You helped us with what was the issue du juor, but also (and more importantly) gave us insight into what was coming NEXT.

I just wanted you to know how much we appreciated the wisdom that you have shared with us, and let others in need know of our joint opinion that if they are confused by conflicting advice, give more weight to the advice of Just Learning than anyone else. You will be glad you did.

Thank You!!!

MyRev,

I am truly humbled by your comment. It makes me very glad to know that I have helped someone in all of this. I do hope you know, I realize that really it is not me, it is you and FogFree that do all of the heavy lifting. If you were not really already thinking along the same lines, the words would very likely mean little.

But, more importantly it is you two that have to live it, make it work, and grow. You two should be very proud of yourselves.

These situations are so very challenging to all involved and there are so many variables. I think that is why I really like Harley's approach. He is in affect counseling to go slow, don't give up, and read your own situation (hence the questionaires, the plans). I think it give people TIME to really learn about themselves and then their marriage. Once that happens the correct choices can be made.

Sorry for the soapbox statements, but I often feel people will only hear what they are ready to hear and that often takes time, more for some than for others. My words have only helped you and FogFree, because you two were ready to hear them. The reality is you two were probably already saying them to yourselves.

It is so easy to overload newbie's here. There is so much to tell them, no matter what side of the issue they are on.

Thank you again for your kind comment.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thank you for your words of praise, but you are being MUCH too humble.

This may seem like a t/j of rb65's thread, but I'm planning to tie this back in to a point I want to make to him.

We participate in a couple of other message boards related to our hobbies and interests, so we have some experience with cyber-personalities, and JL, you have a true GIFT for being able to place yourself into a situation where you can view from all perspectives and advise both sides accordingly.

It is a unique ability to be able to effectively prop up and motivate a BH, while guiding a WW out of their confusion and back to her family. Speaking for myself, I feel I can connect with certain BH's, but WW's just frustrate me ... possibly the fact that you haven't been tainted by infidelity allows you to view the situation more clearly.

Anyway ... rb65, you have a lot of "cheerleaders" posting to you, and a few skeptics. I admit to being in the latter group due to the nearly unbelieveable scenarios you have experienced, but keep in mind there is a large gap between skepticism and unbelieving.

With that said, you are getting advice from many sources, colored by their own issues and circumstances. It is my experience that you will be well served to take JL's advice to heart, and to go further by looking inside of his posts for guideance on avoiding and dealing with future hurdles.

FogFree and I talk A LOT on a variety of subjects, both pleasant and difficult, and with respect to your situation, we both are seeing what it appears that JL has been warning you about for some time now. In reflecting on our recovery efforts, we both agreed that JL was the single most effective source of consistent advice that we received, and I would like to ask that you go back through this thread and re-read EVERY post from JL and where he is trying to warn you of future issues you are sure to face.

JL,

Ditto everything that my DH said!! You really have been a lighthouse for both MyRev and myself. You will never truly know how much your words have helped BOTH of us. YOU ROCK!!

RB65,

Please read everything that JL writes, whether to you or to someone else. He has a true gift for helping people. MyRev and I both are truly rooting for you and your family. Take care, and we wish you the best of luck.

RB65,

I have been folowing your thread from the beginning and you have handled your situation amazingly. I don't have any advice to offer because my situation was tame compared to the one you have found yourself in. You have certainly earned the repect of many around here and I'm also sure your DW realizes just how lucky she is right now. Keep the faith and hang in there.......

<TJ>

JustLearning,



I hate to be a follower, but let me jump into the fan club too! MyRev has it absolutely right. You ARE being far to humble. You have an uncanny gift for reaching people. Plus, the fact that you really have no other vested interest here other than the mental hurdles and helping people and what you do is quit admirable. You should be very proud of the GOOD you bring to the MB community.


MyRev & FF,

Glad to see the two of you hanging around. Hope things are going well. Sorry, I had to jump in with you. One of my favorite posts by JL was in MyRev's thread where he used an analogy to compare recovery with leveling out poles. He totally nailed it with that one. Recovery is an ongoing process to keep things leveled out.

</TJ>

Want2Stay

Thank you all for your far too kind remarks.

JL

Keep on blushing, cuz I feel the exact same way JL...you are amazing!! I love reading your posts!

JL,
I decided to take your advice and take inventory of where I am at personally in this recovery process. What I found was that while I have come a long way since d-day that I still have a lot of hurt and anger that I haven’t dealt with yet. I talked to my Pastor about it a little and he gave me some suggestions to begin dealing with some of these things. He also agreed that if I didn’t start dealing with these issues soon, that they would eventually turn into resentment and undermine our entire recovery. His suggestion was to list all of the things that I am hurt and angry about and then take 1-2 per week and just talk with my wife about them as calmly and constructively as possible.

He also brought up another point that I hadn’t thought about. He said that she’s probably far enough along in her own recovery to understand that there have to be issues that I am still holding inside. If that’s the case, then she is probably just waiting for the old me to return and just unload on her. He suggested that it would probably ease her mind if she saw me dealing with anger and difficult feelings in a constructive way and that would also confirm in her mind that the changes I have made are real.

I am still very hopeful about our situation, but I am coming to understand how long the road is that lies ahead. I have read on this site that recovery can take as long as 2 years. I thought that was crazy and that we could certainly get there faster than that. But, the further we get into this the more I realize just how far we have to go. The good news is that she continues to carry her load in this effort. She actually apologized to me this weekend for getting angry about my run in with OM. She did this without me pointing out to her that she had no right to be angry. When she does things like this, she really gives me hope that we will eventually be fully recovered and have a better marriage than we did before.

One of many reasons for the 2 yr recovery period is that in the first year - you run across anniversaries of the h3ll the previous year.

Did a couple of things that seemed to help - create new memories with recreational campanionship (we backpack and go on canoe trips frequently), house renov (planning and designing is more fun than actual wrk), spending more time together - returned to our courting period and most important - reduced out of town work travel.

just my take on the 2 year recovering period